← Making Space with Hoda Kotb
Making Space with Hoda Kotb
Kevin Love On His Unfinished Journey With Mental Health
00:56:06
Miami Heat forward Kevin Love is a five-time NBA All-Star and advocate for mental health. He opened up about the recent, devastating loss of his father, former NBA player Stan Love, and that viral post-game hug with former teammate, Tristan Thompson. He also speaks to Hoda about his anxiety and his non profit, the Kevin Love Fund.
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- [00:00]
Hoda Kotb
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- [00:30]
Kevin Love
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- [01:06]
Hoda Kotb
The year was 2016, and the Cleveland Cavaliers championship marked the first title in franchise history. Power forward Kevin Love had just reached the mountaintop. As the son of former NBA player Stan Love, Kevin hit a career milestone and fulfilled a lifelong family dream. But the very next year, Kevin's world came crashing down. During a timeout in the third quarter of a game, Kevin suffered a crippling panic attack, making his very private struggle with anxiety suddenly very public. In the nearly nine years since, Kevin has bravely become a public advocate for mental health. He formed the Kevin Love foundation, which works to inspire people to live their healthiest lives. By creating equity between mental and physical health, he's created a safe space for other athletes to also speak openly about obstacles with their own mental health. And sadly, in recent months, Kevin suffered a heartbreaking loss with the passing of his dad. In our conversation today, Kevin is honest, raw, and forthcoming. I felt his emotion deep in my core, and I hope you will, too. I'm Hoda Kotb. Welcome to my podcast, Making Space. First of all, I am such I've been a fan of you. Not just as of your athletic ability, but just you. You're just like that guy. So let's get into it. As you like to say, I like when you go, we're gonna get into that. Let's get into that. Let's talk about basketball first because you are in a cool. You're 18 seasons in.
- [02:56]
Kevin Love
Heading into 18.
- [02:57]
Hoda Kotb
Heading into 18.
- [02:58]
Kevin Love
Yeah. October 20.
- [02:59]
Hoda Kotb
Talk to me about, you know, life is funny, like there are peaks and valleys and everything. And I felt like when I was working here at NBC, I felt like I was kind of on top of a wave at a point. When do you know when the right time is to go for a plan B?
- [03:17]
Kevin Love
Well, I think you start preparing for a plan B. I mean, if you're smart and you have the presence of mind to do it early in your career. I did and I didn't. I didn't, you know, I thought it would last forever. And then of course, you know, like you mentioned 27 years, I'm sure you felt like it was a blur. And those peaks and valleys that, that you mentioned have been nice to look in the, the rear view and understand where I learned from both, but also how to apply them in moving forward. I mean, that idea of athletic mortality has, at this stage in my career where, you know, I'm, I'm certainly over the hill and looking at the twilight, there's things that I'm having to, you know, consider, but I'm, I'm, I'm glad I've done the work early, I guess early, probably at that 10 year mark, I really started to consider that, hey, this isn't going to last forever. And the first 10 years went by fast.
- [04:14]
Hoda Kotb
Flew.
- [04:15]
Kevin Love
It flew by. So now heading into season 18, you know, coming up after the summer, it's, it's certainly time to start planning for, for plan B. But you know, I'm going to try and wring that towel as much as I can.
- [04:29]
Hoda Kotb
You got to ring it.
- [04:29]
Kevin Love
You have to. You have to. I mean, and I'm in a great situation now. I've had a lot of great mentors in my career that I've, I've learned from as well as, you know, now being able to step into that role. And I think the gray hair the guys look at and say, okay, he might know something.
- [04:46]
Hoda Kotb
Yeah, the, the moment, like my realization came as a real aha. It wasn't like it, it didn't kind of just fade on the vine. I remember it so clearly. I turned 60, they had big kind of party out here on the plaza. And I looked out and I still remember Kevin. I looked out and it was, I was like, it was such the most beautiful celebration. My friends were there, my family came and I literally all at once was full of love. And I also said, I know now, like I knew with certainty on that day, like, it was so weird. It was the best day. And I thought to myself, like, how could I possibly imagine that this would be the time that my heart just rested and I tested it. Like as I slept, I slept well. I woke up, I was like yeah, yeah, this is right. This is the right time. But sometimes I think things come as ahas, and I think sometimes it's just like, okay, you know, this seems. This seems like about the right time.
- [05:47]
Kevin Love
But what a better moment to have that.
- [05:50]
Hoda Kotb
Yeah. Boy, that was a biggie. That was one of those. That was a really great day.
- [05:54]
Kevin Love
That is amazing.
- [05:55]
Hoda Kotb
Let's take it back to the. To the basketball days early on, because your first love was football, right?
- [06:02]
Kevin Love
Baseball.
- [06:02]
Hoda Kotb
Baseball was what I meant to say.
- [06:05]
Kevin Love
Baseball. Actually, my parents didn't allow me to play football. They always said that if I ever ended up out there without them knowing, that they would drive on to the field, literally drive onto the field and yank me off of it. So my dad would take me into the painted area on the basketball floor and say, you want to play football? This is your football.
- [06:24]
Hoda Kotb
But wait, but you were a kid who wanted to play football. Did you ever.
- [06:28]
Kevin Love
That's a good save. I can appreciate that.
- [06:30]
Hoda Kotb
Were you a rebel? Were you saying to yourself, you know what? I'm going to try it anyway or I'm going to.
- [06:35]
Kevin Love
Yeah, I was a little bit of a rebel, but I grew up in Portland, Oregon, and I wanted to play quarterback. And there was a weight limit and I was tall, I was bigger. I was somebody who was going to, because of my genetics, be taller.
- [06:53]
Hoda Kotb
Yeah.
- [06:54]
Kevin Love
And that just wasn't in the car.
- [06:57]
Hoda Kotb
That wasn't going to happen. No, that wasn't going to happen. Your dad obviously played professional basketball. Did you watch, Admire him? Watch him play?
- [07:05]
Kevin Love
My hero.
- [07:05]
Hoda Kotb
Yeah. Yeah.
- [07:06]
Kevin Love
He was my first. First hero. And he just passed in April, and he was a. He was a giant to me. He was my protector. Something I wrote about and posted right after he had died on my social platforms and really, truly my. My first hero. So I want to be just like him. And he gave me a ball early in my life, and I just wanted to be out there with him on the court all the time. And he had great stories of different athletes over the course of time, as well as a lot of basketball players. And he played in the NBA, so that's who I wanted to follow. That's who I wanted to be like. And I think over the course of time, there's, you know, people that you try and emulate and also become your heroes after the fact. But, you know, nobody had a bigger influence on me, especially early in my life, than my dad off the court as well. And, you know, obviously, just being around him on the court, he just taught me so much. And I wouldn't Be here, sitting here having these conversations without him.
- [08:11]
Hoda Kotb
When was he the proudest of you?
- [08:15]
Kevin Love
You know, I put together a list of questions for him when he got really sick about 18 months ago and had almost passed and before he went into hospice and, you know, his mental capacity, his executive function, all those things were still there. And cognitively, he was still there. And he's brilliant. I always said, like, he had a little bit of dyslexia to him, wrote some things backwards, read different than anybody else. But as far as his brain went, I always said he could win cash gab, he could win Jeopardy, he could win all of those type of shows. He was just that smart and knew his history. He definitely pushed me into my love for. For. For history as well. But when I had asked him kind of, you know, what moment outside of basketball were you most proud of? And it came at a point where it was just a little bit too much for him to consider. And as we got closer and closer to the end, these things started spilling out of him. And it was like when he was. Was in hospice and we had those quiet moments together. And I think it was just. He said it was early on in my life, the work that I put in in order to be just overall better. I mean, I was a rebel. I had my moments where I had, you know, kind of offloaded my hurt and what I was feeling when I had so much anxiety when I was young and, you know, the pressures of being an athlete who was precocious and the expectation was there. And then I just. I. It was inherent. It was in our family. It was my. It was my father. It was, you know, his father. Before that. It was, you know, the Wilson side of the family as well. We just were prone to. And still are prone to melancholy and. And had our moments of real depression. So I think he was most proud of me overcoming that and. And not getting rid of it, but just changing my relationship with it. And that's. That's what he had said, like, despite all the. The different challenges, he was proudest that I was able to become a. Just a better man over the course of time. And I think he was most proud of my family and my two daughters now, because the greatest gift that we got at the end was that we all got to be with him when he passed. But he also got to hold and feed my youngest daughter, who was two months at the time. So it was a special time. So just. I'm still having trouble expressing it, but I do love speaking about him, especially because yesterday was Father's Day, the first Father's Day without him, because it, in a way, keeps him alive. Right? You keep telling the stories. You keep remembering the good and the bad in its entirety and totality. So keep talking about Stanley stole love, and he'll remember this. I love it.
- [11:11]
Hoda Kotb
I love that. So to be able to sit at his bedside and ask questions, I mean, that's a gift so many people would love to have. Just to sit and to see what he said said. What did you lose the day he passed?
- [11:25]
Kevin Love
I mean, obviously a f. A father figure, but somebody who was just a cornerstone and a pillar in my life. I think you just lose a piece of you that you'll never get back. And he was taken from us too soon. I mean, 76 is a great life, and his only ask was to be at home and be around his family when he passed. And, you know, I think the hardest thing that you lose is just those little moments, like, things creep up on me at different moments where I think about, oh, man, he would have loved this, or he would. He would have laughed at this, or, you know, people say certain things that. That. That trigger such a response to the great memories that we had. And, you know, we were estranged for a little bit, and I think that. That, you know, division, I said, helped me to find a lot of myself. And. And, you know, I mentioned the. The. The. Probably my first real wisdom or wisdoms, plural, at. At. At 36, of. Of reconciliation, forgiveness, and just another deeper form of love, and a father's love, just like a mother's love. There's just nothing quite like it. So you lose them. It's. It puts a. It puts a. A real hole in your life that I don't know if you can ever feel again. But for me, I just. You know, you mentioned your two daughters, eight and six, right. And mine are, you know, two. Just turned two on June 10, and then four months, and you just fill it with that love and pour it into them.
- [13:13]
Hoda Kotb
I think the idea that you found your way back to each other, you and your dad, because I think a lot of people go through. There are so many relationships where you get estranged for a while, and it's hard to find your way back home. And that often is a regret at the end. It's like, how did we do that? What brought you back to him? And how did that reconciliation happen?
- [13:38]
Kevin Love
I think your kids looking at. My. My oldest looking at her and understanding that as a parent, you just try and do your best. I have an older brother, Colin, and a Younger sister Emily. And they just did their best the only way that they knew how. And I think that reflecting on that as well as, you know, understanding he was, he was very sick too. And I didn't want him to. To pass. Not without him knowing that I always loved him and he always loved me. So I think that was, you know, finding my way back at that time was, was crucial for my well being overall. Right. And I think kids have a way of changing your perspective. It wasn't necessarily immediate, but I think in looking back and trying to connect the dots in the rear view, yes, it was a little bit messy, but I found that when life is good, it's not easy and it certainly wasn't throughout the course of my childhood and a very complex relationship with him. But again, the good times were truly great and I wouldn't be who I am even with all the flaws without him. And you know, speaking of regret. Regret is so much of the time I've learned within inaction rather than action. Both of course. But I didn't want to have him pass and not reconcile or even ask him the questions. Why, how understanding the relationship with his father and, and how he approached fatherhood and what he was most proud of basketball wise or outside of basketball. And, and how it was being the father of. Of a daughter, my younger sister Emily. Or what was it like when Colin was born and you know, all these different questions. I never asked him about his relationship with my mom and you know, their love and they were together for 48 years and married for almost 40. So how did you do it? Because that is a true success story. And he was as you know, in passing how he did with my mom and his three kids there by his bedside. That's success. That is what success looks like is, is, you know, your kids wanting to come home.
- [16:15]
Hoda Kotb
Yep.
- [16:17]
Kevin Love
As well as be with you at the very end. And those relationships are what matter who.
- [16:21]
Hoda Kotb
Said I love you first with you and your dad when at the end.
- [16:29]
Kevin Love
Probably him. I've, I've. I think because it was, you know, it was a complex relationship. Like I said, a relationship filled with love though truly. I've always had a. You can ask my wife. I've had trouble saying I love you. But now again your daughter. I mean my, my two daughters have changed that.
- [16:53]
Hoda Kotb
Yeah.
- [16:53]
Kevin Love
Quite a bit as well as my dog. But you know, it was very likely him. He was, he had trouble with always emotional regulation which was from generational and past trauma. But he never had a problem. I mean never withheld compassion or Saying I love you. So I. I believe that he modeled that in a. In a way a parent is supposed to, which doesn't always happen, but I think because it might have been withheld from him when he was young or he. He had, again, a multifaceted and very layered relationship with his father that, you know, it's probably the reason that he was so upfront with his love. But it was. It was definitely mirrored at the end.
- [17:52]
Hoda Kotb
Which aspects of parenting did you take from your parents and which did you leave on the table and say, we're not doing that?
- [17:59]
Kevin Love
Well, my mom, she was and is naturally a caretaker. She was a career nurse. She worked in. My sister was a preemie baby and she was in the nicu. So my mom worked in neonatal intensive care for years. So just being a caretaker and a career nurse, I learned what it meant to show and express love and acts of service and being selfless and loving, unconditional. That's certainly what I learned from my mom. And it was inspiring. I'm really in awe of her and how she spent, really the last five years when my dad really got sick, but certainly the last 18 to 24 months. And then really since November, when we had a real scare, we thought we'd lose my dad to the last probably six weeks when the downturn was very substantial. She just. She's a lover, a fighter. And again, I'm just so in awe of how. I mean, she was, like, on call 24 7. I don't know how she did. I don't know how she had the bandwidth. I don't know how she didn't have a true breakdown either physically or mentally, but she just pushed through. And that was from unconditional love. And then my father, it was both what to do and what not to do. Right. I think he. He was a very. I use the word complex person. Father, brother, son. He. I think he. He regretted a lot, definitely in inaction and. And, you know, not balancing his career right early on. He would have been great in today's NBA. I just want to say that, too. He would really shoot the ball. Super athletic. Could. If he focused on defense, he could have switched one through five. That's neither here nor. He was. He. See, the problem was. And it's a good problem to have. He played for the LA Lakers at one point, and so he played 82 games in Los Angeles, and then he traveled with the Beach Boys for the summers. Right. Because my Uncle Mike is the lead singer. Brian Wilson, RIP just passed, so cousin Brian and he was his, his caretaker and bodyguard at one point. Like, that's so he was always, he was, he was always. Yeah, he was. He was, he was in it. If you know, for lack of a better term, he was, he was L a a really good life. But I, I think he, he was living for now. He was, he was a free spirit and, you know, I learned a lot on, on both sides. He had a lot of success, a lot that he should be proud of, and I think it was his ability to just continue to provide for us and, and, and put food on the table, stay in the same house and get a great education and, and, you know, be, be well fed.
- [21:08]
Hoda Kotb
More with Kevin Love in just a moment.
- [21:21]
Kevin Love
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- [21:56]
Hoda Kotb
Somewhere that the average American spends 13 hours a year waiting in pharmacies for prescriptions. Clearly, I am above average. I thought being above average would feel better. Hmph. Maybe I'll read some greeting cards next time.
- [22:12]
Kevin Love
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- [22:22]
Hoda Kotb
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- [23:42]
Kevin Love
Yeah. I mean, I think, by the way, when I see you, I light up. Because for natural reasons, I started the Kevin Love Fund of September of 2018. I penned that article in the Players Tribune in March. And I'm going to work my way backwards here, but just saw the impact of sharing part of my story, just peeling back that first layer of my struggles and navigating the world of, you know, my own mental health and anxiety and. And, you know, depression and. And coming to terms with getting to the point in the present mind where I'm like, okay, I need help. But it went all the way back to November of. Of that season. We were playing the Atlanta Hawks, and I had a. A very public mental health episode. And it was a panic attack right after halftime and went to the Cleveland Clinic who, you know, how did the.
- [24:47]
Hoda Kotb
Panic attack play out?
- [24:48]
Kevin Love
Yeah, no, it. It was just, you know, I talk about, like, those pillars in my life, like, my parents and my father being mad. It was, you know, a time where we were having our disagreements and struggles. I think it was also, you know, I have still unpacked this with my therapist and others within my life. The weight of expectation and being a high achiever as well as just being, you know, it being inherent as well and within my bloodline. And there was just so much going on at that time that I've continued to continue to share. And I think it. I always say, like, nothing haunts us like the things we don't say. But I was always so against going to therapy. I was comparing grief, and I mentioned withholding compassion. And it just. It came to a tipping point with me where everything kind of just was an avalanche and hit me at the same time. So it just. It was. It got a lot worse before it got better, too, even through all of that summer. So I still, in some cases, have trouble articulating it. That's why I write so much, because it's a hedge against perspective, loss, and what I'm feeling in the moment and feeling at the time. But it was just a moment where also, we had been off to a rough start. My teammates didn't know what I was going through. I wasn't ready to expose what was going on at that level. I had broken my hand that year, so I had the game taken away from me, and. And I was still trying to go out there and compete in a league that is unforgiving. And I was an All Star that year, named to the All Star team for my fifth time. And still it wasn't enough. It was. I just thought I could achieve myself out of it. And my relationship with being an athlete and feeling like nothing else was very unhealthy. So it was a lot of things.
- [27:06]
Hoda Kotb
Carson talks about his panic attacks a lot. And, you know, you've talked to Carson a lot about this, and he describes them, too, as a feeling that it feels like you might die. You actually feel like you might die. It's not just, oh, gosh, my heart's racing, oh, let me calm myself down. It goes way, way beyond that into a scary realm. How did you decide to talk about that and say, I mean, feeling it and kind of protecting it as you're kind of. Cause everyone's got their bugaboo that they don't want to say out loud.
- [27:36]
Kevin Love
That was one.
- [27:37]
Hoda Kotb
Yeah, that was one. So the decision to write about it in that publication was a biggie. I mean, you probably didn't know what it was going to do, but why did you think that? Let me just say it. So let me get it off my chest.
- [27:51]
Kevin Love
It was a number of reasons. Initially, it was DeMar DeRozan having just passively tweeted out in the middle of the night that, you know, this depression gets the best of me, and I was trying to hide it and put it off to the side. And maybe it was a little emotion phobic, because I just. I thought to myself, this is really going to impact or put my livelihood in jeopardy. And again, it's that relationship with. With the game. What am I if not a basketball player? What am I if not a high achiever? Is everything going to be taken away from me? And I'm not going to have that safe space that was taken away from me from. From, you know, having that. That episode on the floor, as well as, you know, teammates kind of turning against me because they didn't know what happened. They just thought I wasn't showing up for them.
- [28:53]
Hoda Kotb
Right.
- [28:54]
Kevin Love
But that's a whole nother layer of comple came into it as well, is, you know, if I do share this, are my teammates going to not trust me, or is the organization going to say, okay, we need to maybe move on from Kevin or take a step back and really assess, is he valuable with all of this going on at the same time? But it was the same week. It was all star of 2018. We were in Los Angeles and there was a former teammate who had kind of driven me into. And drove me into speaking about it because, you know, he kind of exposed that I had had some things going on and this is what happened. And there were rumblings around All Star Weekend that I started getting questions.
- [29:41]
Hoda Kotb
Oh, God.
- [29:42]
Kevin Love
And I thought, okay, well, I don't. I don't want anybody else to tell my story. So I am going to decide to press send and write this article and press send. And my thought process behind it was, selfishly, I can help myself by freeing myself of this, but also helping maybe that one kid and empowering others to do the same. I mean, it was really scary. It was really scary because my agent, I spoke to him, he's like, he says, I'm gonna speak to you as your friend. I'm gonna speak to you as your agent. In both cases, he had said that this is going to change your life forever. And I really didn't know what that meant. I said, yeah, maybe. I mean, I'm going to put myself out there in some ways, fall on the sword, if you will. But I do know. Or he said, I do know what you're saying in that if you just help that one person or one kid. Because as I've learned, this doesn't. It doesn't discriminate. This impacts everybody at one point or another, whether it be themselves or said arm's distance. And like, I've gone through this year and losing two family members, that you're going to experience grief at some point and how that impacts you long term and even in the short term, you just. You. You don't know. So being, you know, and seeing the outpouring of love and support and stories from people who share in part of that struggle, it just created so much of a sense of community. And I always say, we're tribal beings, we need to start acting like it. But it just gave me hope for the future and that I could be part of something bigger than myself. So from that, I said that there's an opportunity to really help people here. And that's where we started the fund and started of that year. Came and gave you a big hug.
- [31:47]
Hoda Kotb
It was so cool.
- [31:48]
Kevin Love
Give me a few minutes. I'm gonna try and get. That's right.
- [31:50]
Hoda Kotb
I saw. Actually rewatched it because it was really good.
- [31:53]
Kevin Love
Here we are.
- [31:54]
Hoda Kotb
So when you were deciding to say this, you spoke out loud, you got this outpouring of love. Then it's your teammates in the league, because that's really where your soul is. So you may have gotten a lot of atta boys from outside. What happened inside. Inside the league, inside your team.
- [32:12]
Kevin Love
Well, that morning when the article was published, we were meeting at the plane, so we had no practice that morning. And we were meeting at the plane for, I think it was a five or six game road trip, and we were flying to Denver, and I remember going to Cleveland, Hoppins Airport, and we're jumping on the plane and I kind of just sit down, put my hoodie on, headphones.
- [32:41]
Hoda Kotb
Yeah.
- [32:43]
Kevin Love
Take the temperature of the room. But I remember Kyle Korver coming and sitting next to me and shaking my hand and saying, like, you know, you have a minute. He's like, you know, I have kids and you've really. This is really going to help a lot of people. So, like, again, you know, I talk about my shoulders dropping. I just kind of, like, settled in a little bit, but I went into. Went into myself and just try to compartmentalize all my thoughts, not look at my phone throughout the course of that flight. But I can remember, and it's. It's D.C. and Denver, which are the longest drives on the bus to our hotels. But like, I remember parking at the. The hotel in Denver, and LeBron and I sat almost next to each other. He was at the. A seat up and across the. The aisle. But he let everybody pour out, everybody get off and. And, you know, he just shook my hand and, you know, kind of gave me that nod of approval and, you know, since then has really supported me in the space. But it was pretty immediate, I think, as he finally realized that that's it, something was really going on and he was going to support his brother who he won with and had been in the trenches with. And. And, you know, that's what not only a teammate does, but a true lifelong friend and a brother. So that was another moment where, you know, you have the best player in the world who's mentally so stable, mentally so strong, but I think understands that, you know, within his family and Savannah and his kids, that everybody, you know, is, again, like I said, going through something that you can't see. So he's. He's been a. A great supporter in all this, as well as my teammates over the course of the years since.
- [34:41]
Hoda Kotb
Yeah, because he. I remember he put out that very public tweet that was just like basically saying he was proud of you. And that. That was. Yeah, that was without question. So you became right away the face of anxiety and depression. A long time ago, I was diagnosed with breast cancer. And I didn't really want to say anything. And I was like, oh, God, I don't want to. I don't know if I want to be that person. I'm not sure if I said, is that the first thing I want people to think about? You know, I remember thinking about that before any kind of public acknowledgment. So what you decided that. And without. I mean, there was nothing to do with you. It was all going to be. That was the way a lot of people, they'll see you, obviously, as a basketball player first. But that's this. That's probably the second thing. How does that sit with you? And do you feel the change that you are, you know, because you made a change in people's lives? Very few people can say that, you know, outside of their own families.
- [35:38]
Kevin Love
No, it's definitely a great responsibility. And, you know, one of the first things that I always tell people is, hey, I'm. I'm not an expert, but I'm going to continue to learn and stay very curious. And I say without fear or prejudice. Like, you know, it's funny, Anthony Bourdain is such a. A big part of my story and that he spoke about his best friend in parts unknown, about Eric Repair, and he said he lives relentlessly curious, without fear of prejudice. And I said, that's it, that's it. And you can apply that in every space within your life, but certainly within this. Just understanding the impact that we all can have for the greater good, I think has really helped me in doing my work early and chasing this. A great piece of advice I got early on in my career about basketball was chase the game, and everything you want in life will chase you right back. And I think that can be applied to this as well. I want to chase this space in order to get what I want, and that's to help everybody, anybody and everybody. Help as many people as I possibly can. But there's certainly a. A weight to it. You know, I do believe that I've been approached for this, especially in the. The last several years or since, you know, we, we announced the fund and people understood, you know, what I was going through and. And could conn in a space bigger than basketball, that there is a definitely a weight to it. But I take that responsibility in being somebody that can be one of the faces within the world of mental health and mental illness. And I actually really enjoy it because I'm a giver by nature. I just am. And I like to think that my empathy has Grown. I've become more evolved. I love and believe in leading with kindness. And it is effective. It is effective. Like when, when. When it's reciprocated at the other end of that, too. It's, It's. It's a really. It's a. It's a great feeling. And what better time than now? We live in a. A complex world with so much going on, even, you know, then and, you know, through the pandemic in 2020 and all the way until now, it's. It's at the same time incredibly gratifying and I'm. I'm grateful. I'm humbled to be looked at as such. And it's again, helped my talking about the relationship with just being a basketball player. Yeah, you know, I'm just, you know, more, More than my sport.
- [38:37]
Hoda Kotb
I can imagine the things that people have told you or confessed to you or shared with you. Is there one that pops in that you're like, oh, my gosh, like this person was going through something so horrific, and by seeing a simple clip or a simple interview, it changed the course of their life?
- [38:56]
Kevin Love
For me, it's. It's kids.
- [38:58]
Hoda Kotb
Kids.
- [38:58]
Kevin Love
That's easier because when I was. And. And them bringing signs to games and it's not basketball.
- [39:05]
Hoda Kotb
What do they say?
- [39:06]
Kevin Love
It's like everybody's going through something or like, you. You help save my life or save my. Yeah, it's. It's heavy. I'm very moved by it. And you just, you don't know the impact that that's going to have on that person's life, their family's life, the community. I mean, just at school, around their peers, around their siblings, it's like, you know, that impact many others. And I mean, within the fund we have our social emotional learning curriculum, and it's all about, you know, the teachers and the kids within the class modeling vulnerability. And we have, I like to call them shares within the classroom, where, okay, you might not have the language, truly the language, and being able to speak what you're feeling, but through these lesson plans and different mediums, whether it be music or photography or creative writing or, you know, I wrote a poem about my grandmother and shared it at John Adams High School in Cleveland. And that was my first share. Seeing the impact that then the teacher sharing for the kids that had was so amazing, and it makes you so much more relatable. And then these kids are saying, wait, you too? And the amazing thing to me is like, seeing the young boys and the young men share, especially the athletes, because you're you know, supposed to be hyper masculine and it's rah, rah. But again, it's that, that evolution now, it actually is such a superpower. That vulnerability and that strength goes so far in helping them, even being a more cohesive unit. If you know the, the person next to you and you're in the trenches with that person next to you and you truly know them and see them, it can take you so far. It's like our, our 2016 team. We didn't know it at the time, but we're truly connected forever from winning, but going through all of that high and low and that beauty among the chaos. And we're, you know, we spoke yesterday. We, we text every single day. And we're all very complex and layered individuals and not perfect, very flawed group. But I think we accept all of. And just being able to go through all of that together and losing multiple parents and Channing Frye had that in the same month and his heart condition and J.R. smith, you know, his daughter now just had a, it was either seventh or eighth birthday and she was a preemie baby and almost passed. Like we went through all of that together. Very heavy moments. But again, I think it's the impact on kids and the next generation and them being so open and susceptible to change, which inspires me and gives me a lot of hope.
- [42:04]
Hoda Kotb
It's funny because it was you and Tristan Thompson after either. It was before the game when he gave you a hug that lasted. What'd that feel like?
- [42:13]
Kevin Love
That hug, by the way, crazy emotional because I had flown back two days after my dad had passed and I just wanted to again, veteran player and presence. I wanted to be there in Miami to support the team. And it just so happened they were or we were playing against Cleveland and Tristan again. We've been through a lot together. I was right there. He was right there. And I just kind of approached him and wanted a hug. I'd missed him. In general, every time that we see each other, a lot of memories come up, both good and I shouldn't say bad, just some heavy after everything that we had gone through. But I just broke down. I just broke down. He's family. He's somebody that the true Tristan Thompson has the biggest heart. He's just such a special person. And he had lost his mother and had lost a parent so he could empathize. He had known what I was going for. And so it was a moment where I just broke down. It was the first real time after the fact where I just let it Go. And he was again there for me. It's who we are. We show up for each other.
- [43:45]
Hoda Kotb
And I think that moment, too, because it's almost like how we often tell our kids, you got to do this. You have to do that. But we're not displaying it. We're just explaining it. And what you did in that one image, by the way, forget about even knowing either of you. Well, it just. It spoke volumes. You didn't even have to know what you were talking about, what you went through, what was going on, but that it was okay in front of the cameras in the world to have a moment because you both needed it. And I thought to myself, oh, my gosh, like, that's like walking the walk. That's everything.
- [44:18]
Kevin Love
Yeah. And I think you're allowed to lose yourself and feel every depth within your emotions.
- [44:26]
Hoda Kotb
Yeah.
- [44:26]
Kevin Love
I mean, however it comes up, just feel it all the way through. And. And in that moment, I just allowed myself to. To be free. And I think it transcends. But the idea of. Of, you know, masculinity, that we. We have to hold it in. We have to. You know, I talk about the playbook with my father is, like, compartmentalizing to. Don't show weakness, don't show emotion.
- [44:52]
Hoda Kotb
Yeah.
- [44:52]
Kevin Love
Be stoic in how you go about loss or grief or, you know, your. Your mental health struggles. But I think we're so much better off allowing it to happen in a way that we feel both extremities or both sides of that, and I think it'll manifest in some other way down the line.
- [45:21]
Hoda Kotb
You do?
- [45:22]
Kevin Love
I do. I don't know the data or the science behind that, but I do believe if you hold on to that, it will manifest in another way, and it'll. You know, the body will keep score.
- [45:35]
Hoda Kotb
Yeah.
- [45:35]
Kevin Love
And, you know, those traumas, if, you know, it's not from therapy or medication or, you know, different avenues of being able to. To, you know, heal yourself or work on yourself, at one point or another, those things will come to the surface. So. And I just. I always feel like, especially men, we'll. We'll compare our grief, and we won't allow ourselves to go there, but nobody benefits from withholding compassion and withholding those emotions from happening. And I've been so much better off and more settled in myself and more comfortable in my own skin than I've ever been, because I say, hey, listen, this is me. This is what I deal with, and you cannot use me against me.
- [46:23]
Hoda Kotb
Oh, that's it right there. You talked about life after basketball and you talk a lot about your foundation. I mean, isn't that the natural path? Or is there. You think that may be? I mean, do you see that being the next act?
- [46:39]
Kevin Love
I really do. At least a large chunk and a large piece of it. We have so much, so many exciting things coming up within the fund and we have high hopes and high aspirations. I have such a great, such a great team that I lean on. I don't like to say I'm the leader. I just want to be part of the team. And we have amazing executive director, amazing team that is highly intentional and is, you know, so strong, I think because it's a lot of women, they're just like the educators, everybody. It's like I'm so lucky to. I actually just got a piece of art from one of my favorite artists in Ed Ruscha, and it's literally my favorite piece of his. And he has a lot of text and words, but it says he enjoys the company of women. And it's so true. I'm surrounded by women at home. Yeah, you are my, my wife, even my, my, my, my dog is a, is, is female, but my two daughters and just.
- [47:44]
Hoda Kotb
Boy, you love that dog. That dog's got a lot of her.
- [47:46]
Kevin Love
Boy, do I love that dog.
- [47:48]
Hoda Kotb
What kind of dog is it?
- [47:48]
Kevin Love
Vila. Hungarian Vila. Cool. And they, by the way, if you want to see what love looks like, unconditional love looks like, that's it. That's it. But yeah, it's going to be a large part, huge part of my life moving forward and that allows me to, to settle in as well because I'm like, I, I, I know I always have this and, and I always will. So it's become a legacy piece. But I think what's really important to me, which is, you know, when I, my dad passed and even Brian Wilson passed, it's like how I consider the future, I think has changed in that I'm not necessarily. Yes, legacy plays a big part, but so does eulogy. What are people, those virtues, not legacy virtues. Eulogy, virtues. What will people say about me? Not okay as a basketball player, but person as well and, and, and influence and just leaving it in a space better than you found it and just never, never getting too big, whether, you know, in any walk that you're walking, never getting too big to do the little things.
- [48:59]
Hoda Kotb
We'll be back in just a moment. Stay with us. Our state has changed a lot in the last 140 years. We know because multicare has been here guided by a single making our communities healthier. That comes from making courageous decisions, partnering with local communities to grow programs and services, and expanding healthcare access to those who need it most. Together, we're building a healthier future. Learn more@ multicare.org.
- [49:42]
Kevin Love
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Hoda Kotb
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Kevin Love
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- [50:25]
Hoda Kotb
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Kevin Love
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- [50:42]
Hoda Kotb
Did your and I'm just gonna have one last question, but I want to ask this about your dad. One more question about your dad. You know, there's this saying that says like a boy becomes a man. Usually it's after his father has passed. Did you feel a profound shift after your dad died? Some people after a long illness feel relief in a good way. I mean, like you can't handle seeing a friend of mine's dad just died and you couldn't stand watching it. It was like that part. But what sense came over you at the end there?
- [51:18]
Kevin Love
It was profound, I gotta say, because we were again all there. But we. And it happened so fast. It was, you know, he, he started transitioning as, as hospice. They liked to say that, you know, they mentioned that you're gonna, you're gonna know, know when he starts to, you know, he's starting to pass on. And it was about 30 hours before he actually passed. And you know, and then, you know, my post and what I wrote, you're only limited to like 400 words. So it was tough. I have another something that maybe I'll share it at some point, but it was just spilling out of me. It was just so profound. And all of the memories and what he meant to me still means to me and how I'll apply everything, all of his teachings, some without even him knowing. Some I was Just watching him the whole time. But I think in, in the way that he passed with all of us around him. It was like around right around 6pm the following day, my sister ran upstairs and my brother and I had just left the room. She said, hey, Dad's breathing has changed. You might want to come down here. And 20 minutes later he was gone. So we just, you know, my sister and I held his hand. My brother was at the foot of the bed. And then my mom was just, you know, massaging his head and kissing his forehead. And you know, that's, that's how he passed. And again I. I spoke about it earlier that he wouldn't have. He didn't want it any other way. That was his only, only wish. But, but it was self reflection. It was reflection on fatherhood and family. And you had talked about going home and talked about the idea of home and what that means. After a long time, even dating back all the way to my teenage years, maybe even my pre teenage years, finally made peace with back home. So I think that changed me in a major way. I do feel like. And I mentioned those wisdoms of forgiveness and reconciliation. It was also a deeper sense of what love truly is and what love truly means. So the reflection Father's Day, it feels just incredibly meaningful in seeing the positives and the good times that we shared and we had. But it's definitely allowed me to come to a different place in my life where I just. I feel like I'm more settled and understand what's really important in life. And my gratitude has just gone through the roof.
- [54:17]
Hoda Kotb
Wow. Do panic attacks still come?
- [54:21]
Kevin Love
They used to manifest when I was younger in like rage. I always had a place to escape to. And I think in not. And you see this a lot if you don't have that emotional outlet, if you are emotion phobic, if you don't have somewhere to escape to. Does manifest in ways that I'm certainly not proud of. And I used to offload hurt when I was younger. Yeah, I mean that's a huge regret in my action, in my inaction and not, you know, making. Speaking of reconciliation with. With some people that I heard and in some cases it was people I really loved and cared for. But that has helped me in looking back and connecting the dots and helped me grow. So it used to manifest in rage. There was panic attacks, excuse me, that happened after the fact in not a public setting. I had not a lot of people know this, but there was another game in that season when there was. Was a very similar One where I just escaped, left the locker room and went home and nobody knew what happened. And then, you know, there's another one that had happened a few seasons ago as well. But in, in terms of the last couple years and my, you know, after my, my daughter being born, I just think they have such a profound impact on, on, on your mental health. And understanding that when I feel these things, I have a place to just pour so much love and gratitude. And also just getting out ahead of it as well. Just getting out ahead of it, doing my work early, as I mentioned earlier, and understanding that I need to put my own oxygen mask on before I assist others. That has been something that I've truly had to learn. So, so it's less and less. But even now that I take medication, I do everything I can to change my relationship with my feeling of anxiety. But those really dark spells that lasted for weeks and even months have come to a much, much better place that I'm proud of having done the work. I mean, I know it's something that doesn't just go away. And anybody that sells you a quick fix for mental health is doing you a disser. But I'm an unfinished product. I mean, that's the beauty of basketball too. You can wake up every day and get better. And that's how I'm approaching my mind, my body, and my soul.
- [57:03]
Hoda Kotb
Oh, I love it. I love it. All right. We call this podcast Making Space. So pretend that you had a day that was just for you. You had not one single obligation, Nothing. From the moment you opened your eyes to the moment you closed. A moment at the end of the day, and you could fill your day any way you wanted, do whatever you pleased. How would your. That one day play out for you?
- [57:25]
Kevin Love
How would it play out? I'd wake up before my daughter gets up or both daughters get up. I would kill two birds with one stone. Is, you know, working, working out. I would of course, take care of my physical health, make sure that my nutrition is right throughout the entire day. But my answer is really easy. I mean, I speak about it all the time. It's like, it's even before I, I came here, I just spent it with my two daughters and had breakfast with my daughter and she was stealing some of my eggs and my blueberries. And so I base everything around their nap time. And then if there's one thing that is non negotiable, and it used to be I got to get home and take my dog out.
- [58:07]
Hoda Kotb
Yeah.
- [58:07]
Kevin Love
So that was like my escape.
- [58:09]
Hoda Kotb
Yeah.
- [58:09]
Kevin Love
Route I Always had an exit plan. Yeah. So I always say I'm like a. I'm an introvert with polished extrovert skills. Okay. Right. I'm like a shy, loud. I actually do well in, like, settings where, you know, there's a ton of people and. And, you know, it's high performance and it's. It's, you know, it's driven me. But the, the non negotiable is bath time and bedtime.
- [58:31]
Hoda Kotb
Okay.
- [58:32]
Kevin Love
Yeah.
- [58:32]
Hoda Kotb
So that's your perfect day right there.
- [58:34]
Kevin Love
That is. That's my favorite day. Anything that else, you know, whether it's work outside of basketball, working on the fund, or a creative project, because I love that creative impulse or something. I'm very curious about basketball. Everything revolves around them. And I would have it no other way because like I said, I'm a giver. I'm somebody who loves to make other people's lives better, make people feel good. And I just. I enjoy being kind and I love my daughters. So that's the perfect day. I. It's the perfect day.
- [59:05]
Hoda Kotb
By the way. That is the perfect day.
- [59:06]
Kevin Love
To me, it's. There's no other answer. Yeah.
- [59:09]
Hoda Kotb
I love it. Kevin, thank you so much.
- [59:10]
Kevin Love
Thank you.
- [59:11]
Hoda Kotb
The best. Hey, guys. Thank you so much for listening and for coming on this journey with me. If you like what you heard, and I hope that you do, please give Making Space a five star rating and review on Apple Podcasts and make sure you tell your friends. Follow us on, on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening right now. Making Space with Hoda Kotfi is produced by Alison Berger along with Kate Saunders. Our associate audio engineer is Juliana Masterilli. Our audio engineers are Katie Lau and Mark Yoshi Zumi. Original music by John Estes. Bryson Barnes is our head of audio production. Missy Dunlop Parsons is our executive producer. Libby Leach is the executive vice president, President of today and lifestyle.
- [60:06]
Kevin Love
With McValue. At McDonald's, you don't just get deals on the drinks, you get deals on McDonald's drinks. So when you're breaking a sweat, embrace the chill without breaking the bank. And when your crew is running on empty, keep your wallet full while refreshing the squad.
- [60:23]
Hoda Kotb
Get more than you expect on your.
- [60:25]
Kevin Love
Favorite medium drinks like frozen Fanta blue raspberry iced coffee or lemonade. Now at just $2.29. Price of participation may vary. Cannot be combined with any other offer.