← Making Space with Hoda Kotb
Making Space with Hoda Kotb
Maria Shriver on Poetry, Reinvention and What It Means to Live Fully (October 2024)
00:44:31
After a lifetime of public service and advocacy, Maria Shriver turned the page in 2025 with the release of her poetry book, "I Am Maria," sharing more of her own story in the hope of helping others. In this conversation, recorded live at the October 2024 Making Space Wellness Weekend in Austin, Texas, Shriver joins Hoda to discuss writing "I Am Maria" and what she’s learned about living a meaningful life. Plus, she shares the importance of getting quiet, why a bumpy path may mean you’re headed in the right direction, and the messages that continue to guide her forward.
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- [00:01]
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- [01:07]
Hoda Kotb
One thing I've learned on this beautiful journey of life is the importance of the people you surround yourself with. Now we've all got a desire to feel seen and supported and most of all connected. And I feel so incredibly grateful for the circle of women that I surround myself with. You know, the ones who cheer me on, they nourish my soul and they feel like a warm hand on my heart. And Maria Shriver. She's one of of my people. Marie is the type of friend who cherishes, cares for and checks in on the people in her life. And she's the type of friend you can be unapologetically yourself with. The friend who will always stand by you and with you. Marie has made it her life's mission to be an architect of change and shine her light on others. She's figured out how to live a meaningful life as the most authentic version of herself. And now she's sharing some of the lessons she's learned along the way in her latest book. It's called I Am Maria. It's a beautiful collection of poems and reflections all about heartbreak, healing and finding your way home. To inspire us all as we navigate our own journeys, Maria joined me at our very first Making Space Wellness Weekend this past fall together with an absolutely incredible group of healers, practitioners, experts and 150 new friends for an unforgettable weekend of healing, growth and finding everything we did not know we Needed. We had a beautiful conversation all about how to live a meaningful life. And isn't that what it's all about? Anyway, Maria shares her story, her wisdom, her insight with a beautiful and open heart. This conversation has stuck with me, and now I would like to share it all with you. I'm Hoda Kotb. Welcome to a special episode of my podcast, Making Space, live from the Making Space Wellness Weekend. Hey, girl.
- [03:17]
Maria Shriver
Hey.
- [03:19]
Hoda Kotb
There's a saying that says you're the sum total of the five people you spend the most time with. So. So choose wisely. Think about your five. Maria Shriver is one of my five. And Maria's. The thing I like about Maria so much is she's a listener. I don't know if you've interacted with her. Chances are she's asked you, where you from, why you here, et cetera, et cetera. What did you glean from what people are saying?
- [03:44]
Maria Shriver
Well, first of all, I just wanna say how proud I am of you for doing this. This was a dream. This was something that was percolating in Hoda's head. And to actually make a dream come true is a really big moment in someone's life. So I just want to, like, shout that out first. And so I was sitting in my room there thinking about what I could say today that might be different, that would be something that I could offer. And I started by praying, actually, this morning, which I do every morning, and asking for what I could say that might be different or might be helpful. And what came to me was to tell all of you that it's okay that you're here, that you don't have to have guilt for being here, no shame in being here, and that you're here because something called you here in your own life, something in you spoke to you that said, I want something more. I'm deserving of more. There's more for me out there. And I'm curious about where I could take my life. And I want to applaud that because it's really brave to go and say, like, I want to take some time. For me, I'm curious about a phase of my life, a next phase of my life. I might not really like where I'm at, and I don't really know where to go, but I know if I go here, I. I might hear something that will help me move to this next place. And I think it's really important to actually think about your life, this moment in your life, what matters to you, what's meaningful to you. So that's what came to me this morning to talk about, because I think we don't do that enough.
- [05:51]
Hoda Kotb
I think it's funny because we've used the word permission. I feel like we need permission. I need someone to tell me it's okay. You were saying many years ago, you went to a spa of some sort, and the voice you kept hearing in your head was your mother's.
- [06:05]
Maria Shriver
Yeah.
- [06:06]
Hoda Kotb
Why are you wasting your time at that spa?
- [06:08]
Maria Shriver
Right.
- [06:08]
Hoda Kotb
You should be doing something else, something for other people. You were raised to. It's better to be of service to everybody than to serve yourself.
- [06:18]
Maria Shriver
Yeah. I was like. I think it was 51 or 52, and I went to the Canyon Ranch with my two cousins. But when people asked me where I went and when my mother asked me where I. I said I was on a work trip because I knew that she would be like, what the. You went to a what? And my mom was tough. She was a change agent, a force of nature, and she came from a generation where you did not complain. Self care. She would have, like, kicked me out the. If I had brought up the concept of self care, she would have, like, you know, like, whacked me over the head. She said constantly, I don't want to hear a yip out of you or one of your brothers about anything. You're lucky. You're privileged, and I get out and change the world. So I wasn't. And I was, like, five, you know, so it's like, you know, and that just kept on going until she died.
- [07:15]
Hoda Kotb
But.
- [07:15]
Maria Shriver
And it's still going in my head, you know, But I think, you know, that's how she was raised. So that's how she raised my brothers and myself. But I think the idea of taking care of myself, I wasn't brought up with that at all. And self care wasn't in, you know, the vocabulary. I didn't grow up with that vocabulary.
- [07:39]
Hoda Kotb
I remember you told me a story one time that you and Oprah were, like, relaxing on a beach or something somewhere.
- [07:46]
Maria Shriver
Yeah. Oprah told you that story.
- [07:48]
Hoda Kotb
Told the story.
- [07:48]
Maria Shriver
She was on vacation.
- [07:49]
Hoda Kotb
She was on vacation with you. They were chilling out and enjoying their time. And it was when there was a tsunami in Southeast Asia. I think it was 2006.
- [07:57]
Maria Shriver
I wasn't with her.
- [07:58]
Hoda Kotb
Oh, you weren't with her?
- [07:58]
Maria Shriver
I wasn't. I was. It was, like, over Christmas, and she was. She called me. She's like, I'm in an island. I rented a boat. I wanted some vacation. And this crazy woman chased me down the pier with A bathing cap yet was your mother. And she was like. She's like, go call Maria. You both have to get going to the tsunami. You have to save the people. Raise the money. What are you doing? She's like, Mrs. Shriver, I'm getting in my dinghy. Don't get in the boat. Call Maria. Do something. And she's like, how long is she gonna be here? Can I. I'm gonna move the boat. I wanna get away, you know? I was like, I know. She called me and she's like, I saw Oprah. Now, I think the two of you should get together. I'll organize a call. We should do something quickly. Now that time is of the essence. And I think it was Christmas. And I was like, mommy, nobody's working at Christmas. And she was, yeah, we are. We're all working. Just. You and Oprah are the only two people on vacation. I was like, okay. But that's the way she was.
- [08:52]
Hoda Kotb
But that was her.
- [08:53]
Maria Shriver
That was her, so. And, yeah, I mean, that's how, you know, she started Special Olympics. She started, you know, programs. She was determined to change the world for people with intellectual disabilities. And she did through just grit, resilience. Not accepting.
- [09:08]
Hoda Kotb
No.
- [09:09]
Maria Shriver
And believing that everybody who came to our home was a permanent volunteer in her army and such was the case. Everybody did. And people would. I remember when I was little, people would be like, I don't really want to come to your house. I would be like, why? And they're like, oh, your mother's scares me. She's going to make me go and work as a volunteer in that camp. And, you know, your dad's going to sign me up for the Peace Corps. I really don't want to come over there, but. Yeah.
- [09:37]
Hoda Kotb
A testament to your parents and how they operated. You went as a member of the Peace Corps overseas.
- [09:43]
Maria Shriver
Yeah.
- [09:43]
Hoda Kotb
And you were in some slummy, horrible place, and it was scary for you. And you called home. If I got the story right, you called home and you were like, this place is terrifying. Someone needs to come get me. I don't remember where you were.
- [09:56]
Maria Shriver
I was in Tunisia. My father thought it would. My parents were very adamant that my brothers and I make sure that we understood how everybody was living. So they were very much into community service, obviously. And so they sent me. I lived in a hogan for several weeks. Not a good thing for me. And then they sent me to Tunisia, Tunis, to live and work with the Peace Corps there. And I lived with the family in the Medina. And I went with a girlfriend, and she Was out of there in 24 hours. She was like, I am so, so out of this place. And I was living with a family who had five boys, and it was myself. And there was no running water, no toilet, no nothing. And they ate couscous for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. And I was like, this is a mistake. I have got to get out of here. And so I called my parents and said, you know, obviously nobody speaks English. I spoke French, but I said, you know, I need to go, because I'm living in the Medina and, you know, this is not safe for me here. And so they sent my brother, my older brother to come and see if I was exaggerating. So my older brother came over and he's like, you're such a baby. Oh, my God. He goes, she's fine. Leave her there. And so, yeah, they left me there and sent me the next year to Senegal in Africa, the same thing. But at the time, I thought it was a terrible thing, but it turned out to be, in hindsight, a really good thing. And then I've done the same thing to my children.
- [11:29]
Hoda Kotb
That's exactly how you operate.
- [11:30]
Maria Shriver
The exact same, by the way.
- [11:31]
Hoda Kotb
That is exactly how you operate.
- [11:33]
Maria Shriver
Yeah. So I was like, my kids are like, why are we being sent? I said, just because I was. And it was funny.
- [11:41]
Hoda Kotb
So when you are in a family that has such high expectations and they probably had a path set for you, and for someone like you to say, actually, the path that you guys are on, I want to be a journalist. I want to go down this road. How do you find a voice in. In a place that's so, I'll say loud or noisy, but a place where maybe you wouldn't be heard.
- [12:04]
Maria Shriver
Well, for me, that was really hard. And it continued to be hard, I think, really, throughout my life in different ways. So I decided I wanted to be a journalist after spending time on the campaign trail when my dad was the vice presidential nominee in 1972. And I looked at the plane and the people in the front who were the candidate and all the people working for the candidate were stressed out and freaked out and, you know, just didn't look like they were having any fun. And in the back of the plane were all the journalists, and they were the ones having fun. And they also seemed to be the ones controlling the story. They seemed to be the ones telling the story. And I thought, I want to be back here. I want to be in the back of the plane. And so I set out and started to try to get myself to the back of the plane, in so many words. And so I went to work in Florida, Philadelphia, that I went to Baltimore. And then I just worked my way up. I went to CBS and then obviously went on to NBC. And it was a way for me to be of service because that's what my parents respected. But to do it in my own way and in a profession that they actually saw in a way as across the line, so to speak. They were on this side of the line and I was walking into an area of people that was reporting on them. And so I think in the beginning they didn't really understand there weren't a lot of women in journalism, so they thought it was odd. And I think, like everything I thought, they thought I would grow out of it. Same when I met my former husband, they were like, for sure you're going to grow out of this, hopefully. And when I moved to California, that was also. I was the first person in my family or extended family to move to California, which was in their mind a terrible idea. And. And to also then take up with someone who was of a different political party was an even more outrageous idea. But as I've looked back on it, I was doing that, I think, to find my own heir, to find my own breath, actually to find my own way. Because growing up in a very competitive, well known family, you can either be subsumed by it or you have to leave. But I also realized that kind of leaving I'm an only girl, I have four brothers, and leaving the east coast, leaving my parents to go to the West Coast, I think must have been really difficult for my parents. But I knew I couldn't stay and survive. I knew I couldn't stay and find my own way, become my own person and know why I was here. If I was just following in like this preordained path of my family. And that has always been my desire, my search for why am I here? How am I different from this group of people? And I grew up being very kind of just confused with everybody. It was like, which Kennedy are you? You have hair, you have teeth, you're just one of all of these other people. And that, that was funny, but also actually sad because it robbed you of being a person in yourself. And so I never felt like I was Maria. And then when I would say I'm Maria, they'd be like, no, no, no, no, but like, which Kennedy are you? Which one are you? And I'd be like, no, I'm Maria. Like, no, but. And I was like, oh, okay, well, that's not enough. And so I think my whole drive was like, who is Maria? And so it was a. By talking to people, by inter. By, in a way, interviewing myself has been a journey to answer that question.
- [15:59]
Hoda Kotb
I thought it was pretty profound that you told me when you were married to Arnold, too, you felt invisible. And one of the words I would never use about you would be that word. I feel like when you walk in a room, everybody knows it. There's something about you. How did you feel that way?
- [16:19]
Maria Shriver
Well, I think you can feel like. I'm sure everybody in here at some point has felt invisible in their life, has felt small in their life. I think it's a very human feeling. And I think particularly women often feel like that. And so oftentimes you can walk in the room regardless of. And people don't see you. They don't know you. They may know you as, you know, so and so's daughter or so and so's wife or so and so's mother, but they don't really know you. And I think that can create a feeling of. And I think that even though I grew up in a very famous family, I was invisible as a human in that family. I was part of a family, and that's what was visible. And I think I didn't always feel invisible with Arnold, but I think when you're married to somebody super famous, people behave a certain way around people who are super famous, and they can knock you down to get to that person, walk over you to get to that person, and it can make you feel, well, who am I and what am I doing here and do I matter? And so for me, it was really important that I raised children who felt like they were a priority in a public family. I wanted to guard their privacy. I wanted to make sure they were not part of political pamphlets, that they were not used as props, that they were the stars of our home. And that, for me, was a something that I was really passionate about. That they feel that they were of equal importance to whatever their mom or dad was doing, that they were valued, that they were four distinct individuals, but also collectively a family. But that regardless of what their dad was doing or what I was doing or what family they came from was, what they were doing was important. And that was really, and continues to be, I think, for me, something that I take super seriously to make sure that they feel that whatever they're doing isn't overshadowed by what their parents are doing. And that's an ongoing piece of work.
- [18:42]
Hoda Kotb
People are always asking you about how you raise up your kids. You've got great kids. They wanna be around each other. They wanna be around you. Yeah, I remember you told me that when Maria comes into her home and there are children there, kids, her sons, her daughters and their friends, they stand up.
- [18:59]
Maria Shriver
Yeah, I make them stand up.
- [19:02]
Hoda Kotb
She makes them stand up.
- [19:03]
Maria Shriver
Literally, I used to make them. Now they just do stand up. Yeah, well, my mother did that. So there's many things that I've emulated from my mother, but my grandmother and my mother were big on manners. So when somebody who was older walked in the room, AKA my mother, mother, everybody stood up. You know, when we went to the dinner table, everybody had to have something to bring to the table to talk about, to converse about. My mother would be like, okay, what's your opinion of, you know, the gospel? What's your opinion of what the president said today? And, you know, you could be 10, 11, 19, 20, but, like, you had to, like, step up. And so I wanted my kids to, you know, when I walked in the room, or their dad walked in the room, or you would walk in the room that they, you know, stand up out of respect. And so when their friends would come over, I'd be like. And I'd say, Cause my mother did that. She'd stand in the door and she'd go. And then everybody go, oh, oh. You know. And so I started doing that with my kids friends because, you know, I didn't want to walk in the room and they'd be sitting looking at a phone or watching the game. I'd be like, I'm here. Like, let's, you know, here we are, here we are, here we are. And here I am. And look me in the eye, say hello, thank me for coming. Write me a thank you note if I take you somewhere, that sort of stuff. And even though my kids moaned and groaned about it, they now say it was a good thing. I don't know, but they say it
- [20:39]
Hoda Kotb
more ahead with Maria Shriver. Stay with us.
- [20:50]
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- [21:46]
Maria Shriver
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- [22:34]
Hoda Kotb
I think a lot of people came here and they know the topic that you like to talk about, which is a meaningful life. Like what makes a meaningful life. I feel like you've been a student, a seeker, and whether you're at NBC and when Maria walks in the makeup room at NBC, she doesn't come in spewing knowledge and she has more than all of us put together. She does nothing but ask questions of the intern of Laura, who's doing hair, Mary who's doing makeup. Whoever comes in. Chanel's having a rough day. She's asking a million questions. But what what constitutes and how can you find a meaningful life?
- [23:12]
Maria Shriver
Well, I think first of all, by everybody here is living a meaningful life. I think you start from the fact that you're here. Each of us is a divine miracle. I believe that regardless of whatever your religious affiliation, it's a miracle that you're here. It's a miracle. And then figuring out why you're here. You are here, I believe, to do something meaningful with your life. I mean, there's no question in my mind that we're all here for that specific reason. And what's meaningful to you, to you to it's all different for so many people living a meaningful life. You might Find meaning out of raising your children, and that gives you meaning. You might find meaning in your work. You might find meaning by starting a nonprofit or an organization or helping your community, and that can change. I found myself over the decades. I keep checking in, and my life has changed dramatically over the decades. But I try to kind of think forward. Who do I want to be and where do I want to be when I'm 85? Who do I want in that open field and at that table with me? And I try to put in the work now to make sure that when I'm 85, God willing, that those people are at my table. So I try to, you know, invest in my friends, I invest in my family, I invest in my faith, which really directs everything that I do. And I try to use my being and my voice on behalf of work that I hope will help other people. So whether it's my journalism, I look at it as service journalism. I don't believe in gotcha journalism. I don't believe in aggressive journalism like that. I believe in journalism that's focused on the truth, but it's also of service. I try to. My Alzheimer's work is of service. My mosh bars are of service. They raise money for research. Even the Sunday paper started out of a love of writing and wanting to reach people's hearts and minds and elevate the voices of other people. But I think all of us have to decide what matters in our life, separate from who we might be married to, separate from our parents, separate from the shoulds of our lives. And I think that comes by first being in quiet. I'm a big advocate of silence. I'm a big advocate of spending time really interviewing yourself. You know, who am I today at 50? Who am I at 55? Who am I at 40? What's important to me? Well, at 40, this is what was really important. But at 50, maybe my kids are grown and something else might be kind of becoming more important. And that's scary, I think, for a lot of people. And I think one of the things. So I think that's a big thing to know what your path is. And there's always that saying that if you're on a path, a kind of worn path, you're on the wrong path, that you want to be on a path that's rocky, that's bumpy, that's dark, that you don't know where the hell you're going, because that means it's your path. And I would say that my path has been really bumpy. And it's been fricking dark. And it's also been beautiful, right? And I think that's the thing I've learned as I really became older, into my 50s, when I got divorced, it was a, like, terrible. And it. But it showed me what I was made of. It showed me that many of the things, you know, starting with when my mother died, I thought I'd never survive. I did. Then my father died. I thought, oh, my, now I'll be an orphan. I won't be. Who will I belong to? I survived. When my marriage ended, I thought, that's it. I'm over. I'm done. You know, I'm nothing. I don't know who I am. I did. I found a new version of myself. And that's what is so wonderful, I think, about life. If you continue to ask yourself, why am I here? What matters to me? Who am I today? There's no wrong answer to that. And you just keep going deeper and deeper, and you keep blooming as you go deeper, and you keep evolving as you go deeper, and you surprise yourself. And then you have this life that maybe you never even dreamt of. Like, you didn't dream of this five years ago, ten years ago, but it's only by going deeper, by asking questions, by going, yeah, let's try that. Let's go over there. We went to Miraval to go for the weekend, and we were like, oh, maybe this is a good place to do a thing. And then we're like. And Hoda's like, yeah, maybe we should do this. And we're like, yeah, maybe we should. But it came from, like, organic experiences, adventures, trying, asking. And something will come for you from this that you didn't even know coming into this, right? Something will stir in you that might take you to the left or the right or somewhere else. And that's great. Even though it may be scary, that's great. And I just want to reiterate to people all the time that, you know, this is great, Emerson quote, that everything you need is within you already. It's there. Don't ever doubt that you can and can't do something, that you can't go over here, you can't go to the left or the right. You can. I'm telling you, 1,000%, you can. You were made to do that. You were made for tough times, and you are made for great times. You are made for love. You are made for heartbreak. You are made for joy. You are made for grief. That's what really constitutes a life. And I Don't think we talk enough about the benefits of suffering, the benefits of pain, the reality of grief and trauma and how it all encompasses what is a meaningful life. You can't have a meaningful life if you don't know grief. You can't have a meaningful life if your heart hasn't been broken. And I'm a big believer, and I wish somebody had told me that because I spent a lot of time holding on, thinking, I wanna make sure everything stays here because I don't want to have any more grief or I don't want to have any more trauma. And, like, that's a fool's errand. And I think that, you know, people need to tell other people there's nothing wrong with you if you have fallen down, if your marriage didn't work out, if you got fired from your job. I got fired from my job. My marriage didn't work out. Right. There's a lot of stuff that happens in a life, and it all adds up to make a beautiful life depending on our perspective and depending on how strong we feel, how capable we feel and how well we know ourselves and how well we love ourselves and how well we believe in ourselves. Because if we don't do it, no one else is going to do it for us.
- [30:45]
Hoda Kotb
The faith piece of your life is important. You've said it a few times. It's like, center. It's how you start your day, it's how you end your day. How has it evolved for you?
- [30:55]
Maria Shriver
Well, I. Both of my parents were deep, really religious Catholics. They went to church every single day. And so I went to the Convent of the Sacred Heart, and then I went on to Georgetown. So I was educated by the nuns and the Jesuits, and I grew up in a house where, as I said, if you weren't running for president or becoming a nun or a priest, get out. You know, it was like you were not even at the table. So I grew up with that kind of. That was people who were nuns and priests. At that time, that vocation was really revered. And I remember when I was in grade school, and I would ask the nuns, you know, like, well, how'd you become a nun? Because, you know, my mother was always talking about the nuns, and she was always having nuns over. And I remember she was like, I want you to come downstairs and meet this nun. I'm like, oh, God. Like, every time as a nun, it's like, over here, you know? And it was Mother Teresa. Oh, you know, I'm like, yeah. And I'm. And I. One of My brothers sent me a picture, and she's there at the time. And I'm like, you know, because I was like. But my parents, you know, they had, like, the Berrigan brothers, fathers over, who were, like, social activists and stuff. And so. But I asked the nuns in my school, like, well, how'd you become a nun? And they were like, you know, I was just a girl, just like you. And one day I went home, and I was in my room, and God or Jesus appeared to me and said, I want you to be a nun. I was like. So I would go home every day and go, do not come in the room. Do not come in the room. I was like, I don't. But I feel actually, you know, so I think I resisted my faith. You know, I was like, you know, I was like, I like boys. I like sex. Get out. You know, But I have, you know, kind of embraced my faith, you know, So I went, you know, I was taught by the nuns, taught by the priests, and then I. I battled my faith as a woman in the Catholic Church, and I still battle my faith as a woman in the Catholic Church, and. But it's a big part of my life. I go to church every week. I pray every day. And I feel. I feel in many ways like I'm a servant of my faith. I'm walking my faith. I'm in my faith. I'm trying to do God's work in whatever way. I'm moving through the world, and it gives me. It makes me feel that I'm not alone in the world. My relationship with God, my relationship with prayer, it helped me in really dark times. I have found it. You know, even with when my parents were sick, when my mother died, my faith was what helped me navigate through. And I don't know where I would be without my faith. And I appreciate people of all different faiths. And I have, you know, in my home, I have Buddhas, I have Kuan Yang, I have. You name it, I have Mary, I have Jesus. I'm like, constantly when people say to me, I'm talking about Jesus, I'm like, where's Mary? Let's talk about Mary. But so I'm, you know, and I'm really interested in people who give their life to God. I'm really interested in the work of the nuns, which is quite extraordinary. I mean, the social justice work of nuns around the world is quite amazing. And I just find people who do that kind of work and who have that kind of contemplative, almost monastic life super interesting to me. And super inspirational to me. And so I try to spend a lot of time with people who have either given their entire lives over to God or who are somehow walking alongside their faith today.
- [35:06]
Hoda Kotb
I think a lot of people get to certain, let's talk age for a second. You get to certain ages in your life and you feel like, wow, well, well, you know, the best stuff is behind me now. You know, whether it's 50, some people even at 40, start to feel funky. 50, 60, 70, whatever those. I feel like there's been a whole reset on aging. And I know you've, you did a whole thing on reframing aging. Yeah. But I maybe just speak to the fact that sometimes you feel like, well, maybe I'm too old for fill in
- [35:40]
Maria Shriver
the blank, whatever it is. No, I don't feel that at all. I never, I actually, I mean, I have, you know, two 30 year old daughters in there and so many of the young women that come over to my house, they're like, I'm so old. I'm so old. I'm 30, I'm 32. Oh my God, you know, like a breakdown. Or I'm like, what? I'm like, I'm like, What? You're like 33. Or they're like, it's over, I have to go and get Botox. I'm wrinkled. I'm like, oh my God. I'm like, honey, buckle up, buckle up. But I find, you know, I love being in my 60s. I feel like I know myself, I feel healthy. I mean, I think health has a huge component to how one feels about aging. So let's start from that point of view. So I think if you are healthy, if you. So let's also adjust that because I think as many people age, their friends may pass away or their lives change in many ways and they find themselves without friends or without their health. And then it's tough. I think aging is tough. And I think we have an ageist society and I think that's important to call that out in every way, shape and form. People tell me all the time I can't get a job or I was let go of my job because of my age, or I can't get insurance because of my age. So I think the country has to really catch up to the, you know, to how many people are aging in our country and how many people are aging alone in our country. How many people need care in our country. We have no, you know, coming back to stand up in the room, you know, respect for aging, respect for the, for elders, you know, it's much more prevalent in other societies than in the United States. And so I think that that's advocacy work. I think it's political work. And I think it's something that we all have to push up against, fight against, and be the best examples. I think, particularly for our children that, you know, ages. I want my children to see me vital. I want them to see me working. I want them to see me happy. I want them to see me talking about things. I surround myself a lot with young people to. To keep me current so that I know what's going on and that I'm current. And I want my kids not to be afraid of aging, and I want that for everybody as well. But I make no mistake that aging is. We do live in an age of society, and so we have to take that into account. So when you feel like, wow, I'm feeling that as I go out to try to. To change my job or something, that's real. That's real. And I think we have to push up against it and honor it. And then that's why I think so many women are becoming entrepreneurs at 50. They're starting their own businesses. They're becoming consultants. And I often say that to women who've, like, said, well, you know, I'm a mother. Or when I was first lady of California, women would come up to me all the time and say, like, I'm just a mother. I said, get rid of the word. Just so often we put the just in front of whatever it is, how we're describing. I'm just a schoolteacher. I'm just. You name it. None of us are just right. That's why my new book is I Am Maria. I'm not just X, Y and Z, and none of you are either. But there's so many women who are brave enough to start new businesses, consultings, nonprofits, and doing so many, you know, trying to access capital. But that's also a challenge as a woman entrepreneur, and that's a real thing, too. But I think we're all here to change our society, to change our culture, and we do that with how we live our lives, with how we use our voices and how we conduct ourselves. I'm a big believer in that. And the only way to reframe aging, to reframe what it means to be a woman in her 60s, to reframe what it means to be a mother, what it means to. Means to be a professional, what it means to live a meaningful life, is to just do it.
- [40:08]
Hoda Kotb
More with Maria Shriver when we come back.
- [40:16]
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- [40:47]
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- [41:18]
Jane Coston
Hi, I'm Jane Coston, former writer and podcaster for places like the New York Times, Times, the Atlantic and National Review. And now I'm here to hang out with you five days a week on what a Day? Crooked's daily news podcast. That's right. Now, who's respected on both sides? Okay, yeah, it's not me. It's probably still just Dolly Parton. Moving on. These days, it's hard to separate what matters from all the noise, especially when the noise somehow also feels like it's made out of knives. That's why every weekday the team and I scour the headlines to bring you the stories that matter most to the way you live in just 20 minutes. Listen to the show. Wherever you get your podcasts.
- [41:58]
Hoda Kotb
I have to say that Maria has really helped me and guided me on a lot of my big life decisions. And I think what she does. And she had me do an exercise once, you may remember it, but she was like, get a platter out. I was like that. She goes, get a platter. And so I was like, all right, so I got a platter. Get a piece of paper. I was like on the phone with her, all right, hold on. Got a piece of paper. She said, write down every single thing that is requiring your time, your attention and your heart, whatever it is. Kids, cut a little piece of paper. Work, cut a piece of paper. Hobbies, exercise, travel, family, everything that belongs. Now she said, take each piece of paper where You've written that on and make sure it's to scale of the amount of time you spend on it. You know, I thought my kids were bigger, but my. Actually, my work was bigger at the time. Anyway, I wrote everything out, and I literally laid it on a platter. And she said, look at it. Do you like it? That's your life. You've chosen this life. This is how you've chosen to live it. It was looking at my life from 30,000ft. I did not like how my life was divided. I didn't think about it because I was too busy running and running and running the way we all do because we're busy. So you don't ever hit pause. And I think one of the things that you do a lot is you hit pause, you say, let me stop and reflect. You do it in the summertime. Even if you follow Maria on Instagram, sometimes she'll put up something that says, I'm stopping down. I need a month. And I'm not gonna post anything because I have to recharge. There's an importance to, like. Like hitting the pause button.
- [43:43]
Maria Shriver
Well, I think everybody here, in a way, is doing that this weekend. Right? You're hitting the button on what is your kind of normal life. And I think you're putting a stop to what you normally do. And you're coming here once again, why? You're coming here for something. There's something inside of you that is bringing you here. And so pause with that. Think about what that is. For me, I find pausing and writing. I write to know what I'm thinking. I write to understand what I'm feeling. I write to figure out where I'm going and what makes sense to me. So in the morning, I write. I feel this way. I woke up with anxiety. I woke up with fear. What am I afraid of? I write that out. So it might help to, in those moments when you pause, to write to yourself about what you're feeling and what you feel in that pause. I feel like I should want more. I feel like I deserve more. I feel like, how do I do that? And then start to just find your way through. You know, some people find it through painting. Some people find it through writing. Some people find it through walking in nature. Some people find it all different. Music. Right? And. But I think it's really important because life goes so quickly. And you're not the same person here today that you were six months ago. You're not. You're not the same person that you were last week. Think about what's gone on in your life just this year alone. You're different. And you have to stop and let that difference. Of course, you don't have to do anything. I should, like, lose the word. Have to. But it's a gift to yourself to stop to think about what has been the impact of all of that on your life. What do you do with that? Where does that take you? How can it take you somewhere that maybe you never imagined six months ago or a year ago? And I think that's what you're doing. Your life is taking you somewhere you never imagined. It's taking you in a direction you never even thought about. And it's only happening because you start. You paused and you started thinking. Something else going on, something else out there. Took your time. It's been going on for a long time. And at some point, you're like, now. So there's no hurry here, right? Even if you're in your 60s or in your 50s. I think that's the other thing that I notice from people. Like, I gotta. I have to figure out my purpose. I don't know what my purpose is now. I have to go over, you know, that I think is something that society puts on us. You have to figure out your purpose by, like, you know. You know, kids come over to my house. Like, I don't know my purpose. What's my purpose? And I'm like, you're not going to get it from, like, going, what's my purpose? What's my purpose? Right? And we're actually all actually in our purpose right here. Your purpose is right here. You're in your purpose by being here. You're in your calling by being here. And whatever that voice is, and it's different for every person in this room, it's gonna guide you in ways you never imagined. If you allow it, if you pause to listen to it, if you honor it and give it the space, if you make space to hear your own calling and your own mission. Cause we all have it. And the only person who can decide what it is is you. You. It doesn't come from asking anybody. It comes from asking yourself. That's what I have learned. Wow. Wow.
- [47:37]
Hoda Kotb
Wow.
- [47:37]
Maria Shriver
Wow.
- [47:38]
Hoda Kotb
All right, Maria, I love you so much.
- [47:41]
Maria Shriver
I love you. I love.
- [47:42]
Hoda Kotb
Please get Maria's book. It's called I Am Maria. And I don't know about you, but I'm standing up for Maria.
- [47:46]
Maria Shriver
Shrimp?
- [47:57]
Hoda Kotb
Hey, guys. Thank you so much for listening and for coming on this journey with me. If you like what you heard, and I hope that you do. Please give Making Space a five star rating and review on Apple Podcasts and make sure you tell your friends. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening right now. Making Space with Hoda Kotb is produced by Alison Berger, Alexa Casabella and Ashley Williams, along with Kate Saunders. Our Associate Audio Engineer is Juliana Masterilli. Our Audio Engineer is Katie Lau. Original music by John Estes. Bryson Barnes is our Head of Audio Production. Missy Dunlop Parsons is our Executive Producer. Libby Leish is the Executive Vice President of Today and Lifestyle.
- [48:50]
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