Novelist and Producer, Elaine Goldsmith-Thomas, On Women Supporting Other Women and Following Your Path

Summary

Making Space with Hoda Kotb: Episode Summary

Episode Title: Novelist and Producer, Elaine Goldsmith-Thomas, On Women Supporting Other Women and Following Your Path
Release Date: May 7, 2025
Host: Hoda Kotb, TODAY

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Introduction

In this inspiring episode of Making Space with Hoda Kotb, Hoda engages in an in-depth conversation with Elaine Goldsmith-Thomas, a former high-powered Hollywood agent turned novelist and producer. Elaine shares her remarkable journey from managing megastars like Jennifer Lopez, Julia Roberts, and Madonna to pivoting her career towards writing and production. This episode delves into themes of resilience, personal transformation, and the power of women supporting one another.

Early Career and Rise in Hollywood

Elaine begins by recounting her humble beginnings as a secretary at the William Morris Agency in the 1980s. Her determination led her to climb the corporate ladder, eventually representing some of Hollywood's most iconic figures.

Elaine Goldsmith-Thomas [04:44]: “I started off as a secretary. When I started in the 80s, it was the male room. And truth be told, the people who find happiness are those that understand and accept that the only thing constant is change.”

Elaine's passion for storytelling and her relentless pursuit of success are evident as she describes securing a pivotal role for actor Dustin Hoffman, which marked a significant turning point in her career.

Elaine Goldsmith-Thomas [06:55]: “I screamed, excuse me, can I see you for 10 minutes? I’m telling you, it will change your life.”

Navigating the "Boys' Club" and Career Pivots

Despite her success, Elaine faced challenges in a predominantly male industry. She highlights the importance of adaptability and resilience in navigating through the "boys' club" of Hollywood.

Elaine Goldsmith-Thomas [23:15]: “I realized that I was happiest when I was writing. And I did work on Mona Lisa’s Smile with Larry Connor. The more I produced, the more I recognized that I also wanted to start writing on my own.”

Elaine’s transition from agency work to production was fueled by her desire to explore creative avenues beyond agency representation. This pivot not only expanded her skill set but also allowed her to influence the industry from a different perspective.

Personal Challenges and Resilience

A significant moment in Elaine's life was her battle with breast cancer, which profoundly impacted her personal and professional trajectory. She shares the emotional and physical challenges she faced, and how support from friends and colleagues, especially Jennifer Lopez, played a crucial role in her journey.

Elaine Goldsmith-Thomas [33:35]: “Jennifer flew in for every one of my chemo treatments. She rubbed my bald head and made sure that I knew there was a tomorrow. She didn't bring cameras with her. That’s who she is.”

Elaine reflects on the strength she discovered within herself during this difficult period, highlighting the importance of perseverance and the support of a strong community.

Family and Legacy

Throughout the conversation, Elaine emphasizes the influence of her parents, particularly her mother and father. Her father's storytelling and her mother's support were instrumental in shaping her resilient spirit and drive for success.

Elaine Goldsmith-Thomas [09:23]: “I was Daddy's girl. My father was a storyteller. He taught me that 'no' meant 'try again.'”

Elaine also touches on the enduring impact of her mother's legacy and how it continues to inspire her work and personal growth.

Women Supporting Women

A recurring theme in Elaine’s narrative is the significance of women supporting each other in both personal and professional realms. Her close relationships with clients like Jennifer Lopez exemplify the deep bonds and mutual encouragement that drive success and fulfillment.

Elaine Goldsmith-Thomas [18:10]: “I believe in manifestation, and I believe in talent. Julia’s one of the smartest, most talented people I’ve known and an exceptional human.”

Elaine underscores the importance of mentorship, friendship, and solidarity among women as pillars for overcoming obstacles and achieving greatness.

Writing and Creativity

Transitioning to her role as a novelist, Elaine discusses her book Climbing in Heels, which offers a behind-the-scenes look at the challenges women faced in the 1980s Hollywood landscape. The novel not only reflects her personal experiences but also serves as a testament to the strength and resilience of women striving for success.

Elaine Goldsmith-Thomas [26:51]: “It’s a story of friendship, of survival, of betrayal, of standing up when they pass you by, of saying, I won’t quit when they want you gone.”

Elaine’s commitment to storytelling extends beyond her book, as she continues to produce meaningful content that highlights the complexities of the entertainment industry and the enduring spirit of its women.

Insights and Lessons

Elaine imparts valuable insights on personal growth and career development. She emphasizes the importance of embracing change, believing in oneself, and making space for continuous learning and evolution.

Elaine Goldsmith-Thomas [27:04]: “I loved what I did. I lived what I did. I narcotized myself with food. It just quieted the noise.”

Her candid reflections on coping mechanisms and finding strength in adversity resonate deeply, offering listeners actionable lessons on resilience and self-discovery.

Conclusion

Hoda and Elaine conclude their heartfelt conversation by celebrating the power of community, personal transformation, and the relentless pursuit of one’s passions. Elaine’s story is a profound example of how embracing change and supporting one another can lead to remarkable achievements and personal fulfillment.

Elaine Goldsmith-Thomas [42:17]: “I'm not hiding it. I'm not making it. I'm not saying to a writer, maybe you can do a better version. You're like, I got this.”

Elaine’s journey from a dedicated agent to a successful novelist and producer underscores the essence of making space for growth, change, and the unwavering support of women empowering women.

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Notable Quotes:

• Elaine Goldsmith-Thomas [04:44]: “I started off as a secretary. When I started in the 80s, it was the male room. And truth be told, the people who find happiness are those that understand and accept that the only thing constant is change.”
• Elaine Goldsmith-Thomas [06:55]: “I screamed, excuse me, can I see you for 10 minutes? I’m telling you, it will change your life.”
• Elaine Goldsmith-Thomas [18:10]: “I believe in manifestation, and I believe in talent. Julia’s one of the smartest, most talented people I’ve known and an exceptional human.”
• Elaine Goldsmith-Thomas [26:51]: “It’s a story of friendship, of survival, of betrayal, of standing up when they pass you by, of saying, I won’t quit when they want you gone.”
• Elaine Goldsmith-Thomas [42:17]: “I'm not hiding it. I'm not making it. I'm not saying to a writer, maybe you can do a better version. You're like, I got this.”

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This episode of Making Space provides a compelling narrative of Elaine Goldsmith-Thomas's life, filled with triumphs, challenges, and the enduring strength of supportive relationships. Her story serves as an inspiration for anyone seeking to navigate personal and professional pivots with grace and resilience.

Transcript

[Hoda Kotb]

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[UPS Store Representative]

Yes. My gift. Can you pack it?

[Hoda Kotb]

Yep.

[UPS Store Representative]

Ship it?

[Hoda Kotb]

Yes.

[UPS Store Representative]

Guarantee it?

[Hoda Kotb]

Of course.

[UPS Store Representative]

Oh, send gift baskets for sure. Protect electronics, dog proof it. Return it if they hate it.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yes, no and yeah.

[UPS Store Representative]

Are you the UPS store?

[Hoda Kotb]

Hey, we have a winner.

[UPS Store Representative]

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[Hoda Kotb]

Foreign if you've ever wondered what goes on behind the scenes at Hollywood, from one of the industry's smartest and most successful agents, today's episode is for you. I want to introduce you to Elaine Goldsmith Thomas. She's the woman behind megastars like Jennifer Lopez, Julia Roberts, Madonna, and so many more. And today, the former agent is now a first time novelist. In her new book, Climbing in Heels, elaine takes readers inside a talent agency in Hollywood during the 80s. We're talking big hair, high heels, and even a higher glass ceiling. Elaine used her own insight and expertise to craft this riveting novel and she joins me today to talk about it. We'll also get into Elaine's family life, loss and the ways even the biggest stars have shown up for her when she needed support the most. Buckle up. We're about to peel back the curtain on some of the industry's most interesting and exciting storylines. I'm Hoda Kotp. Welcome to my podcast, Making Space. So Elaine, I'm so happy to be sitting with you and digging into this life of yours, which, you know, what you're like, fascinating. I mean, I knew bits and pieces, but what I'm most fascinated with in this moment is your pivot. Like your, for me, I call it kind of repotting. It's like yanking something up by the roots. You're in the air, you're scared. Is it the right thing? And you plant yourself into really fertile ground and you find yourself like kind of expanding. So tell me just today, how do you feel where you are in your life?

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

Well, first of all, I think life is about the pivot, right? And I think that the people who I find are forever young and maybe happy are those that understand and accept it, right? They say the only thing constant is change. So it's how you pivot. I think that, you know, I mean, the book is called Climbing in Heels, and it's about women who have to climb terrain in the 1980s that wasn't exactly welcoming to them, Right? It was a mountain. It was a mountain where they were not the cheese that the mice wanted, Right? And so it's about the pivot. It's a little surreal for me to be here. Is it weird? So it's weird because I'm the person behind the person. But I've written a book about the people behind the people and how difficult it was to get ahead. And this morning, I'll tell you, because right now I'm in the middle of producing a movie, funny, funny movie called Office Romance with Jennifer Lopez and Brett Goldstein. And Jennifer called me this morning, and I was getting glam.

[Hoda Kotb]

Of course you were. Look at you.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

And she went. I went, how do you do it? She goes, welcome to my world. It was like, you get up early again with all the makeup and the fake hat was like, come on. And it's just surreal.

[Hoda Kotb]

Let me introduce you to people in case they're going, who is this awesome woman who is on this podcast right now? So when you say you were the person behind the person, you were a high powered agent. You were the person who got Julia Roberts Her $20 million deal, worked with Madonna and Halle Berry, and Jennifer Lopez being that agent did not come overnight. That was a slog. So take me back. You started off as a secretary, is that right? At an agency?

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

I started off as a secretary. When I started in the 80s. It was the male room. And truth be told, and this is. I put a lot of my experience, some of my experiences in the book in this one character named Beanie Rosen. And like Beanie, when I was in high school, I was in love with this guy. He was, you know, five foot two maybe. He said he was five seven with lips. And I just. I felt so tall when I walked beside him. And it wasn't just because I was. He was just everything to me. And I wanted to be the instrument of his success. I wanted to be the person who helped him get whatever he wanted, even if it was another girl. That's how sadly desperate I was. I just loved him. And when he told me he wanted, I told him, I'll get you an agent. You know, I have a cousin who's a composer, maybe like second once removed. Didn't matter. He said, you can do it? I said, absolutely. And then of course, I had to set out to figure out how to do it. So I got a list of franchised agents from the Screen Actors Guild that might have been 2,000 names. And I put them in order. The girls at a card store that I worked with, Glenda's Party Cove. We put them in order of locale. And the first place I went to was the William Morse Agency. And I said, I have an appointment with Mr. Morse said, you know Triforce Lawn Memorial Park Mortuary? And I said, okay. And I learned how to get friendly to the receptionist to get to the secretary, and friendlier still, to get to the agent. I had to get the yes ahoda and understand that I believed in him with all my heart and passion and lack of self confidence. So at the end of summer, I was going away to Berkeley and he was going to Cal State Northridge. And I was at a agency on Hollywood Boulevard and I saw the agent walking behind a scrim and I held his portfolio and I screamed, excuse me, can I see you for 10 minutes? I'm telling you, it will change your life. What's it going to cost you? And he looked at me and he said, 10 minutes. But he talked to me. He engaged.

[Hoda Kotb]

Wow.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

And he came out here and he said, who is this?

[Hoda Kotb]

Who is this person?

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

Who's this guy that you're talking about? And I said, you know, Dustin Hoffman, alp, every short actor I could think of. Steve McQueen, you know, just give him a shot. Give him a shot. He said, not interested. And I said, if you don't see him, you're gonna drive down Sunset Boulevard and you're gonna see his picture on billboards and you're gonna say, I could have signed him. And he looked at me, are you serious? He looked at me and he said, you know the best thing about him? I said, no. He said, and he was looking at his pictures, he said, you. But I didn't hear that. I said, so you'll see him? And he said, yes. And hodem, my heart was in my throat. I found a payphone. It was before cell phones. I called him and I said, you know, you had an appointment with this agent. And it was at the end of summer and I had to go away to college. And sure enough, the agent signed him and he got a little role on chips. And I really felt like, okay, I have done something. I've set his career in the Mount Rushmore hall of Fame. And then he got a semi regular role on Happy Days for a while. And I. And then he dumped me.

[Hoda Kotb]

He dumped you?

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

He stopped talking to me. And isn't it weird that the worst experiences in our lives bring us to where we need to be?

[Hoda Kotb]

I want to unpack something, though, because the kid who does that learned it somewhere. So just take me back a little bit further. So when you were growing up first. I love this question because I feel like it reveals a lot about anyone I've ever asked it. So I'll ask you. Close your eyes and imagine that you're in your home, wherever you lived, where you grew up. And you are looking at your childhood bedroom. You see what's on the walls. You see the sheets that you had. You see what's on the bookcase, if you had one. Toys, tchotchkes, whatever. Okay, open your eyes and just describe what you see.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

Very Peter Max.

[Hoda Kotb]

Okay.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

I think I had Peter Max sheets. I think I had a picture of Bobby Sherman that somebody signed and said it was Bobby Sherman. Island of the Blue Dolphins was a book I loved, and I read it and reread it.

[Hoda Kotb]

Was it messy or neat? Your room?

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

My room was messy. And it was pink. And I had bathtub appliques, pink flower appliques, but the petals had peeled off, so it was just pink circles. And that was my room.

[Hoda Kotb]

Were you, like, more of a mom's daughter or a daddy's girl, or. What were you?

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

I was Daddy's girl. Daddy's girl. My father was a storyteller. He would pick up a penny, and you'd think it was a penny, and he would tell you that had touched this penny and that they had left an echo in it. He saw magic in everything and stories.

[Hoda Kotb]

Wow.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

And he was the one who taught me that no meant try again.

[Hoda Kotb]

Was he a salesperson?

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

Yes.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah, he sold insurance.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

Insurance. Insurance. But Beanie isn't me. Yes. He just said, no means try again. Push harder, keep going. And when you got the yes, yes was, you're smart. You figured it out.

[Hoda Kotb]

Did your dad get to see your success?

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

He did, My mom and dad. My mom was a little terrified that I was writing this book. She'd be very proud. She isn't Beanie's mother, as I had to say in the opening. But she'd be the person who would say, go buy it. And then she'd make people prove that they had bought it.

[Hoda Kotb]

She kept score, but she got to see you. She died in 2021. Is that right?

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

In May? Yeah. Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

So she got to see the success you had in your. What did she think of what her daughter had become?

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

I think she was always scared. We were shopping one day. I told this story recently to a friend of mine. We were shopping Maybe back in 2019, 2018, I don't know. And I was looking at stuff, and she said, is everything okay? I said, yeah. Why? No, I mean, are you doing okay? And I never really would share with her when I wasn't because I didn't think she could handle it. And I never wanted, I guess, to disappoint her. I wanted to be the person who was always achieving. So she said, wow, I can't even believe we're talking about this. She said, is everything okay? I said, yeah. I said, why? She said, well, we're at Target. And I said, I love shopping at Target. Target, for me, is happy. But she had equated it. Oh, with your. You weren't doing well. I wasn't doing well, and I needed to save money.

[Hoda Kotb]

But didn't she know that you, like, you and Jennifer did Made in Manhattan. You had all these movies. You were the hotshot.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

She knew me. She knew before that. She knew when I was an agent.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah, she knew.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

You know, she was worried when I stopped agenting. Why are you doing this? I was on top of the game. I was, you know, one of the biggest agents, of course, out there. And I stopped, and she was, what are you doing?

[Hoda Kotb]

Why would you give something up?

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

Why would you do it?

[Hoda Kotb]

Did it matter to her? And I think I saw one of your previous interviews when you were describing your mom, and you were saying that she would say, you know, we don't live in this part of California. We live in this part. She liked to make that.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

My mother. My mother, we lived in Pacoima. My mother called it Arlita. We moved to Sepulveda. My mother called it Northridge. I. I actually never knew where I lived. I just knew it wasn't good enough. But I also knew. I also knew that image was more important than truth. And so what that taught me at a very young age. And again, that's Beanie in the book. But what it taught me at a very young age was that it was important to her. But in Beanie's world, I don't know if it was so profound in mine, so I definitely amplified it. But for Beanie's mother, if they could just get closer to Ventura Boulevard, that was somehow the line. It was where the people had refrigerated air conditioning and built in pools. And they didn't have doughboys and they had housekeepers. We lived where the housekeepers lived and Beanie's moms. It's very. It's difficult because my mom certainly wasn't that exaggerated. But when you're writing fiction, you can take a little bit and you can go there.

[Hoda Kotb]

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[UPS Store Representative]

Yes. My gift. Can you pack it?

[Hoda Kotb]

Yep.

[UPS Store Representative]

Ship it?

[Hoda Kotb]

Yes.

[UPS Store Representative]

Guarantee it?

[Hoda Kotb]

Of course.

[UPS Store Representative]

Oh, send gift baskets for sure. Protect electronics. Dog proof it. Return it if they hate it.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yes, no and yeah.

[UPS Store Representative]

Are you the UPS store?

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

Hey hey.

[Hoda Kotb]

We have a winner.

[UPS Store Representative]

Visit theupsstore.com guaranty for full details. Most locations are independently owned. Products, services, prices and hours of operation may vary. See center for details. The UPS Store Visit US Store today.

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[Hoda Kotb]

When do you think your parents were proudest of you?

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

You know, I'll tell you a story. When I went to William Morris in the 80s and I was a secretary, my father was always on the outside of the entertainment industry. He was A change of life baby. So his father was, like, in his late 60s when he was born. So my grandfather was born in the 1870s.

[Hoda Kotb]

Wow.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

Something crazy like that. And had been very close with the Warner Brothers. Original Warner Brothers. And my mother's uncle had worked with William Fox. So they both had been on the periphery of the business. And I realized when I was an agent, I was fortunate enough to work with people who were famous, and I was able to stand close enough to them so that some of that rubbed off. And certainly my association with Julia was impactful in the 90s. And my mom would cut out every. And Julia was lovely to my mom. Our moms were friends, too, and she put them in scrapbooks. And I never knew it of me or whenever I was mentioned, but what was funny was I don't think she read it, because when I was going through the scrapbooks later, there was an article, Women we can do without in Hollywood. Right. And I guess Julia had been in that. And I was in it, and my mom had, like, cut it out and pasted it in. And I thought, wow, okay, good going. I guess in some way, the women in my book are fueled by their mothers. They're either repelled by them or they're trying to impress them.

[Hoda Kotb]

The book is such a juicy read, by the way. You could really. It's a one sitting. Sit down, pour yourself a cup of whatever you like, and fly through it. It literally. It's written so beautifully.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

Oh, thank you.

[Hoda Kotb]

And it's just fun. And I feel like this is what you sort of need right now. It's like a book that you can't put down. You're almost disappointed when it's over. What I love, while I'm listening to you, is these women who you have represented and stood next to are more than just your clients. They are your friends. I mean, you just said that Julia Roberts and your mothers were friends. Jennifer Lopez is obviously more than someone who you repped at one point. She has become almost like a soul sister. I find that so fascinating. Cause do you have to fall in love with someone to represent them?

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

Well, do you think when I was an agent, I did, yeah. I willed, you know, abracadabra. It translates literally to say it, see it, be it.

[Hoda Kotb]

Wow.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

And I believe in manifestation, and I believe in talent. Julia's one of the smartest, most talented people I've known and an exceptional human, and I believe in her. When I represented her and her talent, Jennifer, you know, my husband saw her in a movie, and Dan said to me, you need to sign her. And at that point, I wasn't looking to sign more people. And I had. Everybody became obsessed with her. What was it? It was her talent. It was. I started watching everything she had done and how she transformed. What I think is remarkable about Jennifer, and I don't like to say it in front of her, but I think that when you're a woman of color and you do more than one thing, right here was a dancer who became an actor, who became a singer, who became a brand, and it wasn't just a little bit a world class dancer. Then she went into acting and she disappears in these roles. I mean, if you see her in Hustlers or in El Cantante, I can't wait for you to see her in Kiss the Spider Woman.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah, I can't wait.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

Amazing. But she disappears in them and then here's her music. I mean, she's had something like 80 billion streams. She's done some of the biggest songs that we know from the aughts. And then you realize you really are doing all these things exceptionally well. And what happens when you're a woman, and I believe a woman of color, is that you get marginalized. Because what you're saying is, you know, people go, oh, you know, she can't really do. Oh, she can't really do that. Because if they gave her the credit, then what does that say about themselves? And Jennifer never pays attention to it. I've learned a lot from her. She's not judgmental. She is a girl's girl. What she says is if you have a passion, you should follow it. And who's to say we should only do one thing in life? I mean, if you only want to do one thing, then do one thing. But if you want to pivot, Hoda, if you want to say, look, I know I'm on top, but who's to say I can't even go higher in a different way if I pivot? And God bless Jennifer, because here I am, her producing partner and running her company, and I said, I'm gonna write a book, I'm gonna tell my stories. And she said, you go. Every time I stopped, she'd say, you should write. She really encourages and inspires people to live their lives to the fullest and doesn't play the referee. Like when people write nasty things about her, I wanna cry foul. I wanna like call the journalist and say, it's so not true.

[Hoda Kotb]

You have it wrong.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

Oh, my God, she's a girl's girl.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

Or these guys are really Friends, you know, and she doesn't. She, you know, I'll play the referee, but the game's down the field.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah, yeah.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

And meanwhile, she's living her best life.

[Hoda Kotb]

It's so funny, because you're right. Every time you watch Jennifer go from one category to another category, it's like. I mean, I'm not equating it to this, but we've all been here. We've all been the young reporter somewhere, and then all of a sudden you wanna try something new. And they go, oh, no, no, not Hoda. She only does that. Like, I did Dateline for years and I wanted to try the Today show. Well, you're not. That's not you. Of course, you can't do that. You stay here. This is your box. Why would you try to get out of your box? But trying to get others to see you in another light and not judge you. And not judge you is hard.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

And what you had to do is say. And what I had to do with this book was to say, I don't care.

[Hoda Kotb]

I don't care.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

And I guess I did that my whole life. Cause here I was, an agent, and Joe Roth, bless his soul, said, I'm opening a studio. Why don't you run the East Coast? I know you're a writer. For me, I had always been a writer. So getting back to that guy that I got the agent for, even though he dumped me, I never forgot the thrill I had from the yes.

[Hoda Kotb]

You got a yes.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

I got the yes. And so forget about him. I graduated college and I went to William Morris, and the same receptionist that was there a few years earlier was still there. And I pushed my way in to get a job there as a secretary. And I worked my way up, right? And I ended up becoming an agent and then going to another agency and really rising at this agency and a diverse group of people. I represented Spike Lee. I represented Tim Robbins and Susan Sarandon. A diverse group of people in their heyday. And yet I was really a writer. So I would read scripts and I would call writers and I'd go, you know, I have this idea. And I'd make myself small and I'd hide it behind. Maybe if you could do a version of this or how about that. And in some cases, and I don't even wanna say which ones, movies that my clients did. I did script work with the writers uncredited. And then Joe Roth was very kind and he said, come work with me. And I did.

[Hoda Kotb]

What about that Leap? Because scary, right? I mean, it's like, what Your mom would probably be thinking, like, you have a solid job, you know, your paycheck, you know what's happening, and now you're gonna try these uncharted waters.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

I think my mom thought, did you do something wrong?

[Hoda Kotb]

They must have.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

Did they want you to leave?

[Hoda Kotb]

They wanted you to leave.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

Is that. And I go, no, no, no, it's okay. And I think they knew I was okay. They wanted to make sure I was okay. They thought I was maybe on the edge. I don't know.

[Hoda Kotb]

Did you think when you took this new gig, because every time you take a new gig, it's new skills. Did you wonder like, u this was the wrong.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

Gosh, I hate saying this, but yeah, if I'm being very honest, I was at ICM and I went to another company, and it was a very big boys club in a way I hadn't experienced since the 80s. And I felt like, oh, my gosh, what did I do? But my boss, Joe Roth, was great. And he really gave me the latitude to sort of do the movies that I believed in. He believed in my taste enough. And so the first one I oversaw was 13 going on 30. But my first movie that I produced was Made in Manhattan.

[Hoda Kotb]

Geez, that's a home run.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

And that needed a lot of script work. And Joe said, do it. And I was uncredited, but I did a lot of it.

[Hoda Kotb]

So when Made in Manhattan was in its infancy, was it the movie that we saw?

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

No, no. It was first written by John Hughes, rest in peace. Who? It was called the Chambermaid, and it was Cinderella. And then it was Jennifer and I talking about a woman with her nose pressed to the glass who lived on the outside of Manhattan, who wanted to get inside and who wanted to be a manager. I mean, people go, oh, she's playing a singing maid, but she's actually playing a maid who aspires for more and whose own mother keeps her down for the fear that she'll lose the job she has. So I did an awful lot of work on that script, and Jo recognized it. I didn't get credit because it didn't start out that way. The writer, you know, But I loved it. And I realized that I was happiest when I was writing. And I did work on Mona Lisa's Smile with Larry Connor, who was very kind. And the more I produced, the more I recognized that I also wanted to start writing on my own. And I finally did, and I did, with the help of people who encouraged it. And it was Jennifer Lopez, it was Benny Medina, it was Kevin Huvain. It was time to come out, all of this. Somebody says, well, are you still an agent? You never lose being an agent. And I was a great agent, Hoda.

[Hoda Kotb]

I can tell, man.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

I was a great agent. But I'm also a writer, and I think I'm a good one.

[Hoda Kotb]

How long did it take you to say that?

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

A long time. And I'm still petrified because, you know, the book, there's a lot of sex in it. I mean, there's a lot of sex.

[Hoda Kotb]

In it, and the book just. Okay.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

Yeah, well, yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

But I think it does have all the things of the eighties and the way it was. And I think it's interesting how you describe, you know, that some people go into this kind of lion's den and turn into kind of a lion themselves. They go in thinking they're gonna fight off the evil parts, and then part of them turns bad.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

You know, you have to be honest about it. And that's. You know, somebody said, so is it like, a feminist? I said, oh, no. I mean, it's a story of friendship, of survival, of betrayal, of standing up when they pass you by, of saying, I won't quit when they want you gone. But it's also the story about how some of the women become very much like the monsters they worked for.

[Hoda Kotb]

Wow. How do you think you survived and then ended up thriving and getting all, like, what was your way? Did you have sharp elbows? Did you ignore? Were you the loudest voice in the room? Like, what was your method?

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

I loved what I did. I lived what I did. I narcotized myself with food. I guess it just quieted the noise, which probably preceded my days at an agency. I think it's how I learned to cope. Yeah. And my mother was my fuel and my kryptonite. I knew how badly she wanted success, and I wanted it, too. And I miss her so much. But when she passed, for a second, I thought, who am I doing this for now?

[Hoda Kotb]

Boy, that's profound. That's big.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

Yeah. I was in my apartment in la, and it was when I was writing this book, and it became really important to me to do this. And I guess in my life, as I look back, because careers aren't planned, they happened. And it's about the pivot and not being afraid. You know, Rumi says, when you walk on the way, the way appears. And you suddenly just go, okay.

[Hoda Kotb]

But that statement that you just made about you wondered, who are you doing this for now? What's the motivating thing? Cause it's so funny. When you say that, I call my mom, like every day at 7:25 from the set. Every day.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

She's still with us.

[Hoda Kotb]

She's still with us. So I FaceTime my mom and my kids. And whenever I'd thought about, considered leaving the Today show, I pictured her up in the mornings appointment viewing, looking at my outfit, calling me, ooh, I love the red. It's amazing that, you know, always was some great compliment about. But it's a connection. And so it makes you go, not yet.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

Was she upset when you left?

[Hoda Kotb]

She was. She was very. She asked me, like, what happened? Would you do something? And I said to her, no. I said, I think it's time for a new chapter. But I think our mom's generation didn't see that as even a possible thing.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

They were frightened. They were frightened, what's gonna happen to her now? And in a way, with my mom, the bragging rights.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yes.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

Right, right.

[Hoda Kotb]

My daughter with Julia.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

My daughter with Jennifer, the bragging rights. And. And what was interesting for me is I would never want to tell her when anything bad happened because she couldn't sustain it. So I had to. You become your own mother.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah. Yes. Yes. Wow. What did you.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

This is like the most amazing interview. Who knew? Yikes. Who knew? Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

What did you lose the day your mother passed?

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

I lost everything. But I realized that I was stronger than I thought and maybe freer. I don't know. I have to. I'd have to think about that. But.

[Hoda Kotb]

But freer is a very important word. Yeah. Because it's not. Yeah.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

That's.

[Hoda Kotb]

That's a beautiful word too.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

Yeah. I don't. Yeah. I don't know. It was complicated.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

She's our first love.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

But. Yeah, it was a lot. Yeah, it was a lot. Wow.

[Hoda Kotb]

More with Elaine Goldsmith Thomas in just a moment. We're shipping Mother's Day gifts with a rapid fire round of questions. Ready?

[UPS Store Representative]

Yes. My gift. Can you pack it?

[Hoda Kotb]

Yep.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

Ship it?

[Hoda Kotb]

Yes.

[UPS Store Representative]

Guarantee it?

[Hoda Kotb]

Of course.

[UPS Store Representative]

Oh, send gift baskets for sure. Protect electronics. Dog proof it. Return it if they hate it.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yes. No and yeah.

[UPS Store Representative]

Are you the UPS store?

[Hoda Kotb]

Hey, we have a winner.

[UPS Store Representative]

Visit theupsstore.com guaranty for full details. Most locations are independently owned. Products, services, prices and hours of operation may vary. See center for details. The UPS Store VISIT US STORE today.

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[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

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[Hoda Kotb]

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[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

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[Hoda Kotb]

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[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

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[Hoda Kotb]

You've been through so many incredible changes in life, pivots and things. And I didn't realize this until I saw an interview that you did. You and Jennifer were doing together. I think it was for Variety or one of those magazines. But you talked about your breast cancer diagnosis, which I was unaware of. I didn't know. Do we have any Kleenexes, guys? Just in case.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

Wow, this is an amazing interview.

[Hoda Kotb]

You're unbelievable. I could sit here all day.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

This is an amazing interview. Well, I said to these guys, so how long is this? Is it like 10 minutes? They went 45. I went, Gosh, I hope I have enough to say. Meanwhile, I feel like I'm in therapy.

[Hoda Kotb]

Your breast cancer diagnosis. I remember I was like someone who ran in Central park and ate apples and got my mammogram and I was like, it hit me like a two by four. I didn't know when the doctor called and said, oh, yeah, we need to get busy with our surgery.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

I didn't know this for you.

[Hoda Kotb]

I had it.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

I didn't know this for you.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah, I had it probably about 18 years ago or something. I had to have a mastectomy. And it was when you were 18. No, 18 years ago.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

Oh, 18 years ago.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

So wait, what year?

[Hoda Kotb]

2007. Yeah. So anyway, they said, you'll have to do all these things. And I remembered thinking to myself, you know what it did for me?

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

I wish I would have known that I would have reached out to you. I wish I would have known that I wasn't. What did it do to you? Go ahead.

[Hoda Kotb]

It kind of reminded me. I mean, after all the scaries, which was most of it, and the worry and the fear of. And then they said, you probably won't have children. This won't happen. It was all the things. I had this weird kind of epiphany. I'd been working at Dateline for many years, and I got one morning, like, I woke up and I was healing from the surgery, and I was just like, ugh. And then all of a sudden, it was like a lightning bolt. I got four words, and the words were, you can't scare me.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

And I was like, oh, my God, chills.

[Hoda Kotb]

So I literally walked into this building after working at Dateline for However many years, 12 years, and I hit 52 on the elevator bank. I went up to see Jeff Zucker, who was at the time the head honcho, and I said, listen, I know there's a new hour of the Today show. I know I can do it. I just had this whole life changing experience. I'm telling you, I'm the one. Like, I'm the one. And he was like, like what? You know, blah, blah, blah. So I had this big speech, and when I hit the elevator, down I go. I don't know if I got it, but I said something finally. Usually I would just work hard and think they would notice, you know, kind of. I was that kind of person. Like, I'm over here working. You know, do they see me? And a producer took a liking to me here named Amy Rosenbloom, who was like, can't you be like, you are in my office. Why are you so weird on the air? Just be you. And she kept saying that to me. I was like, I don't know what to do. Like, she was. She goes, just be you. That's all. And she believed me. So she went to Zucker, and he said, look, we're gonna put a couple of people on this new hour. She goes, I want Hoda. And he goes, I don't know. Look, Hoda, I'm not sure. She goes, listen to me. If she doesn't work, you can fire me. She went to bat. Like, probably the way you go to bat for your people. She went to bat for me. She believed in me. I got that gig. I started working with Kathie Lee. It changed my whole life. Everything changed. But the scariest time, like, I wonder, had I not gotten sick?

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

I probably sometimes, yeah. I mean, I was. For me, it was 2004. I just finished a movie, and, you know, I said to my husband, can you Feel this. And I don't know if I'd had a mammogram. I wasn't taking care of myself. Each movie I was doing, I was gaining weight, so I think mine was probably weight related. And he felt my right breast. And he went, you need. And he's a medical malpractice attorney, so he knows stuff. He said, you need to get. Let's go to the radiologist. I was like, what? And he wasn't alarmist at all. So I went. And suddenly it was like my whole life changed. They knew instantly, and it was stage three. Geez. It had spread to my lymph nodes. And it was Labor Day in 2004. Finding a surgeon and whatever. And I ended up having surgery, a lumpectomy, actually, because of where it was located. And then they found it had gone to the lymph nodes. Chemotherapy and radiation. Larry Norton at Sloan Kettering really took me under his wing. And, you know, it was before. This sounds bizarre to say it, but it was before it was Vogue, you know what I mean? A woman named Laura Ziskin, God rest her soul, was forming an organization called Stand up to Cancer. And I had known her when I was an agent. And she flew in and she held my hand. And Lily Tartikoff helped me a great deal. And I think I was just on autopilot. And I remember saying to Joe Roth, my boss at the time, he said, do you need to take time off? I said, please let me work. So I was doing a movie, actually, with Halle Berry. And Halle was lovely, as she always is. And I was working on the script with the writer, and I just kept working. I just kept working. It was the only thing. But I'll tell you, what you're referring to is that a lot of people get scared when you. They don't know how to act. I had somebody call me and say, oh, my God, Elaine, I'm so sad. You were such a nice person. And they hung up. And I went, I'm still alive. Jennifer was in Miami at the time. We had made Maid in Manhattan. I had represented her in the 90s. And she said, get me her chemo treatments. And she flew in for every one of my chemo treatments. And she rubbed my bald head. First of all, I became very popular on the chemo rounds, but she rubbed my bald head, and she made sure that I knew there was a tomorrow. So we talked about other movies. We talked future. It was no big deal. She didn't bring cameras with her. That's who she is. And what pains Me sometimes is when people paint her as this, you know, self involved or. Oh, my God, you guys have it wrong.

[Hoda Kotb]

I don't even get it.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

You have it wrong. Here I am. You know, she called me this morning. We're doing a movie. She was like, do great today. Say hi to Hoda. I mean, it is selfless.

[Hoda Kotb]

So how did the cancer diagnosis change.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

How you lived my life? Turned left. I was young, ish. And we had been talking about, do we want to have kids? And it just. No. I mean, I was already in my 40s, so I guess, how did it change me? How about this? I never considered it wouldn't be okay.

[Hoda Kotb]

That's great.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

I never considered it wouldn't be okay. I just kept going, okay, what do I do now? It was just not an option.

[Hoda Kotb]

That's huge.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

And I guess for me, the definitiveness of no. It's hard when you don't take no for an answer because you can be quite undisciplined with yourself. But it's good in that you keep figuring out a way around. And life, as you know, is about the pivot. And what I learned when I was an agent, I was a really good architect. You know, it's about being an architect of a career and looking at the landscape and saying, you know, if we try to do this, look, some things can't be planned, you know, at all. It's not like you have a crystal ball. But I would always look at the projects for my clients, see how they were laying out, see who the marketing people were, get really friendly with the marketing people, understand that it was about somehow breaking through with noise and just climb. And I think that's kind of what I'm doing now. I'm putting one non heeled, wide toe box shoe in front of the other and just kind of going, isn't life amazing?

[Hoda Kotb]

Isn't life amazing?

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

I mean, I look at you and I went. When I heard you were leaving, I was first of all disappointed because I loved watching you. You were my wake up.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh, thank you.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

But then I thought, good for her. And I can't wait to see what she does.

[Hoda Kotb]

It's so funny about when, you know, you know, kind of. And even though it's painful, like a lot of, like when you left being an agent to run Jennifer's company and to write and to do all these other things, these production things, I thought this. When I left, I said, I can't put my head on the pillow and sleep. You know, I probably have made a mistake. And there was something about the knowing it was time. And I was also looking at my life and seeing what had occupied my time. And I felt like my kids needed, you know, sort of more of my time pie. I was thinking, I think they deserve.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

More of that, and you deserve more.

[Hoda Kotb]

And I deserve more of that.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

It's you, because you're raising them to be independent, and they are. It's kind of like roots and wings and this is your time, and good for you. And. And I guess I felt the same thing. I guess I felt when I was an agent that much like Beanie in the book, you know, I had kind of summited. Now, yes, I could have kept going and gone higher, but there was more I wanted to do.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yes.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

You know, had I not had that experience with that loser boyfriend, I might have just become a writer. But because of him, I became an agent. And I was great at. And maybe one day I could find my way to writing and still help people with their career. Look at your life, and I'm saying it out loud.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yes, you are.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

I'm not hiding it. I'm not making it. And I'm not saying to a writer, you know, maybe you can do a better version of this idea.

[Hoda Kotb]

You're like, I got this.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

Okay. Since this podcast is called Making Space, I like to ask everybody if you had Elaine one full day with not a single commitment, not a single meeting or person who needed you. You could wake up when your body said so. You could spend your mornings doing whatever you want. You could fill your day and you could close your eyes and drift off to sleep when it felt right. How would you feel that one day that was just for you?

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

I'd want to spend more time talking to you. I'd want to get to know you. There are certain friends that I have or that I plan to make. You know, you. You fill your life as you get older with people that expand your life and don't belittle it. So I guess I would. I'd wake up, can I eat anything I want?

[Hoda Kotb]

Can eat whatever you want.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

Okay. I guess I'd wake up and eat something delicious. I would maybe watch a little Bravo because it relates. I'd spend time with my girlfriends. That's what I would do.

[Hoda Kotb]

Meaningful conversations is what you love.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

And people that I wanna get to know.

[Hoda Kotb]

I love that.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

There are people that I meet along the way, and I think, oh, my gosh, you know, I'd make room. I guess making space is making room in your life for people to expand it horizontally. Right? That's what I do and maybe make tacos.

[Hoda Kotb]

All right, I'll come over.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

Okay. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I'm fun. I'm not that fun. I'm not that fun, but I have fun stories and some of them are in the book.

[Hoda Kotb]

You gotta get the book. Elaine, thank you so much. What a great conversation.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

Can I tell you how much I love this?

[Hoda Kotb]

I loved it, too.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

Like, I loved it. Like, I hope. And now, of course, I'm gonna say so on a scale of 1 to 10 with your other podcast, my mother would want to know, where do I sit?

[Hoda Kotb]

Where do you think? It's where your mom always knows you believed where you are. Baby on top.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

Thank you, Hoda.

[Hoda Kotb]

Thank you. Thanks, Elaine.

[Elaine Goldsmith Thomas]

Can I hug you? Please.

[Hoda Kotb]

Hey, guys, thank you so much for listening and for coming on this journey with me. If you like what you heard, and I hope that you do, please give Making Space a five star rating and review on Apple Podcasts and make sure you tell your friends. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening right now. Making Space with Hoda Kotb is produced by Allison Berger along with Kate Saunders. Our associate audio engineer is Juliana Masterilli. Our audio engineers are Katie Lau and Bob Mallory. Original music by John Estes. Bryson Barnes is our head of audio production. Missy Dunlop Parsons is our executive producer. Libby Least is the executive a vice president of Today and Lifestyle. We're shipping Mother's Day gifts with a rapid fire round of questions. Ready?

[UPS Store Representative]

Yes. My gift. Can you pack it?

[Hoda Kotb]

Yep.

[UPS Store Representative]

Ship it?

[Hoda Kotb]

Yes.

[UPS Store Representative]

Guarantee it?

[Hoda Kotb]

Of course.

[UPS Store Representative]

Oh, send gift baskets for sure. Protect electronics. Dog proof it. Return it if they hate it.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yes, no, and yeah.

[UPS Store Representative]

Are you the UPS store?

[Hoda Kotb]

Hey, we have a winner.

[UPS Store Representative]

Visit theupsstore.com guarantee for full details. Most locations are independently owned. Products, services, prices and hours of operation may vary. See center for details. The UPS Store. Visit US store today.