Taraji P. Henson on Speaking Her Truth and Stepping Into Her Power (September 2024)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Making Space with Hoda Kotb

Episode: Taraji P. Henson on Speaking Her Truth and Stepping Into Her Power

Release Date: April 15, 2026

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Overview

In this heartfelt, candid conversation, Hoda Kotb sits down with acclaimed actress, producer, and mental health advocate Taraji P. Henson. The episode explores Taraji's journey of resilience, authenticity, and empowerment—from her upbringing in Washington, D.C., to her path-breaking Hollywood career, to her advocacy for mental health and equal pay. Through personal anecdotes and emotional reflections, Taraji underscores the importance of speaking one's truth, knowing one’s value, and finding strength in community, faith, and self-acceptance.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Embodying Truth and Authenticity

• Taraji’s philosophy: Taraji is known for her commitment to truth, a value that literally marks her—she has “truth” tattooed on her body.
  • “I've actually been called that a lot. I have a couple of friends that go, 'You the truth.'... I hear people say I am the truth, but it's because I support the truth. That’s what I long and yearn for. The truth in anything. In everything.” (02:23)
• Acting is not pretense in life for her—she acts for a living, but deeply values realness in her own world.
  • “At some point, I have to be real. Well, what am I doing? What universe am I living in?...” (03:08)

2. Childhood, Trauma, and Family Lessons

• Taraji details formative experiences in her upbringing, including witnessing her mother survive two violent robberies.
  • “My mother... didn’t run into a closet and hide...You covered up your Black eye, and you put your clothes on, and you made yourself as pretty as you could with that black eye. And you went out into the world and faced it again. What do you think that showed me?” (04:15)
• Taraji credits her mother’s resilience and her father’s earthiness with shaping her into a balanced and resourceful adult.
  • "My mother sheltered [my innocence]… My father was like, here's the world. Go out there, pull up." (10:16)
• Stark memories: Her first exposure to trauma at age 6 and 12, and how her mother’s actions, not words, taught her strength.
  • “It's not your words. It's your actions.” (05:33)

3. Formative Years and Education

• Vivid depiction of her childhood environment, including her creativity blossoming in a safe childhood space.
  • "I see the Holly Hobby matching bed sheets... I had the curtains. I had the comforter. I had the sheets. I see my kitchenette set, 'cause I was a domestic player." (05:58)
• Taraji struggled in traditional academic settings that didn’t nurture her creativity, leading to detours into math and science before eventually flourishing at Howard University in theater.
  • "I knew inside I didn't belong there because they weren't nurturing the creative side of me... I am not wired mathematically or scientifically. I am an artist." (07:41 & 07:57)
• Her father’s parenting style: let her make choices and learn from failures.
  • “He would set up the problems… he said, you always have choices, but life is choice-driven. It's always gonna come down to what choice you make.” (12:31)

4. Navigating Adversity and Naysayers

• Overcoming naysayers and societal expectations—with self-reliance and an “only child” inner world.
  • "I'm an only child, remember? I can have a whole world inside of my head, and I can go there and no one can touch me." (16:56)
  • "As long as you don't become the naysayer." (17:07)
• Importance of mutual support:
  • “You can't do anything alone... you need people. You need a team... You pour into each other. That's how that works.” (17:14)

5. Career, Power, and Knowing Your Worth

• Taraji shares candidly about gender inequities in Hollywood, how early “big break” promises were different for her than for her male peers, and how knowing her own worth became crucial.
  • "What happened after Baby Boy? Tyrese booked two franchise films... I still have not booked my franchise film. Been in the game almost 30 years. No franchise film. I'm not gonna cry about it... but that sucks." (22:00)
• Breaking the silence around equal pay:
  • “It's not like I'm the only one that's been saying it. Everyone is saying it... This is not a new conversation. I don't know why the universe picked that moment or picked me to amplify my message. I don't know why.” (23:06)
• On learning to self-advocate and reject being undervalued:
  • "What you're not gonna do is tell me my worth. You don't go to work with me every day and you're getting 5% of my money... That's who I am now. I'm her now." (24:03)

6. Mental Health Advocacy

• Taraji discusses the ongoing nature of mental health care, breaking stigma, and the power of being still and quiet as a tool for clarity and healing.
  • "It's not like you go, 'I'm fixed, everything's perfect now.' No, it doesn't work. It's ebb and... every day." (26:27)
  • “What works for me is being quiet. Taking time for me, being still. Because you can't hear anything in the noise. You can't work out anything in chaos.” (26:42)
• On transparency and destigmatization:
  • "Nothing changes in silence. Nothing changes in the dark. If you keep sweeping stuff under the carpet...that dust is going to come from up under that cover and consume you..." (27:49)
  • "Humans need humans... I don't care what color you are... You're missing it if you think otherwise." (28:37)

7. Faith and Spirituality

• Taraji’s spirituality is personal and unconventional; church is within her, not tied to a building or ritual.
  • "I'm not a religious person... I just know God and I know God exists. I know God is real. I've seen God work...I don't go to church every Sunday...church is in me." (28:49 & 29:35)
• On the limits of relying on others for peace:
  • “I have a God. And my God never lets me down.” (30:24)

8. Self-Care and Joy

• Taraji shares how she replenishes herself: time at home with her dog Buddha, pampering herself, and indulging her creative side in her home salon.
  • “Like I spend most of my days when I'm replenished. Like, I can't wait to get back home to my house and my dog. It's that simple.” (32:20)
  • "I have a salon in my house...I have doll heads...they're my clients...I have a square register...I ring imaginary things up, and I check people out..." (33:14)
• Creativity remains vital for her mental well-being—a theme since childhood.
  • "I have to stay in the creative realm, or I wither up and die. And that's what kept me sane during the pandemic..." (34:37)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Parental Influence:
  • “It's not your words. It's your actions.” — Taraji P. Henson (05:33)
• On Self-Worth in Career:
  • "What you're not gonna do is tell me my worth. You don't go to work with me every day and you're getting 5% of my money... That's who I am now. Like, don't play with me." — Taraji (24:03)
• On Mental Health:
  • "What works for me is being quiet. Taking time for me, being still. Because you can't hear anything in the noise.” — Taraji (26:42)
• On Overcoming Naysayers:
  • "As long as you don't become the naysayer.” — Taraji (17:07)
• On Speaking Up:
  • "Nothing changes in silence. Nothing changes in the dark. If you keep sweeping stuff under the carpet...that dust is going to come from up under that cover and consume you.” — Taraji (27:49)
• On Faith:
  • “Church is in me… God is very much in my life and around me. And so that's my strength and that's what I pull from.” — Taraji (29:36)
• On Self-Care:
  • “Like, I spend most of my days when I'm replenished...I have a salon in my house where I go and I do my...I call it...it’s okay. I have a salon...they're my clients. And I also have silicone hands, and I practice doing nails...” — Taraji (32:20 & 33:14)

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Highlighted Timestamps

• [02:23] Taraji explains why “truth” is central in her life
• [04:13 – 05:33] Lessons of resilience from Taraji’s mother’s trauma and recovery
• [07:41 – 08:13] On not fitting into math/science tracks, identifying as an artist
• [12:31] Her father’s unique approach to parenting and life choices
• [15:55 – 16:56] Defying naysayers, and walking across Howard’s stage with her child
• [22:00] Taraji’s reflections on Hollywood’s gender disparities post “Baby Boy”
• [23:03] On why the equal pay fight caught fire with her involvement
• [24:03] Knowing her worth and standing firm in her power
• [26:42] Practices for her own mental health: stillness and quiet
• [27:49] Advocating for openness and breaking the silence around mental health
• [28:49 – 29:36] Faith and God’s active presence as Taraji’s anchor
• [32:20 – 34:55] What refills her spirit: her home salon, creative play, her dog, and nurturing herself

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Final Notes

The episode provides a powerful portrait of Taraji P. Henson—not just as a celebrated actress but as a daughter, a survivor, a truth-teller, a friend, and a beacon for those struggling to find their own strength and voice. Her blend of vulnerability and ferocity, humor and wisdom, will leave listeners inspired to “make space” for their own truths, healing, and creative power.

Transcript

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[Taraji P. Henson]

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[Hoda Kotb]

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[Hoda Kotb]

Learn [e-mail] Sapphire Reserve cards issued by JP Morgan, Chase bank, and a member FDIC subject to credit approval. I'm a big believer in using your voice, speaking loudly and proudly and fighting for what you deserve. And nobody, nobody uses their voice quite like Taraji P. Henson. Taraji's an actress. She's a producer and a mental health advocate. She shines in roles like Hidden Figures and Empire. But what I love the most about Taraji is that this is a woman who speaks her truth. In fact, the word truth, it's actually tattooed on her. Throughout her life, Taraji has faced naysayers, and at every turn, she believed deeply in who she is and what she has to offer. She's advocated for equal pay, paving a path for those to come. She inspires so many, including myself. Today we celebrate how far Taraji has come. And she's not done yet. Not even close. I'm Hoda Kotbi. Welcome to season six of my podcast, Making Space. Taraji, first of all, I love you. I saw you at the Olympics for a brief moment, and I was trying to have a deep conversation with you at some loud, screamy party, and you

[Taraji P. Henson]

said to me, oh, the one Snoopy. Yes.

[Hoda Kotb]

You made a promise to me. You said, we are gonna have a big girl conversation later. So this is our big girl conversation later. I love so many things about how you navigate this world, and one of them is a tattoo that you've sported for a long time, and it says something that, to me, defines you. And the word is truth.

[Taraji P. Henson]

Yeah, I mean, I've actually been called that a lot. I have a couple of friends that go, you the truth. I just heard it, like, throughout my life. Then I started thinking about it, and I was like, I hear people say I am the truth, but it's because I support the truth. That's what I long and yearn for. The truth in anything in Everything, it's in the signs. It's in my zodiac sign. Virgos are seekers of justice. I can't help myself.

[Hoda Kotb]

Have you ever been a pretender? Did you ever try to be what the world wanted you?

[Taraji P. Henson]

I don't know how to do that. I'm gonna tell you why my brain can't accept it. Because I'm an actress. That's what I do for a living.

[Hoda Kotb]

I.

[Taraji P. Henson]

So at some point, I have to be real. Well, what am I doing? What universe am I living in? What verse? What is happening here? You know what I mean?

[Hoda Kotb]

So is that when you were little?

[Taraji P. Henson]

Too little. I was the only child and I lived. I was very creative. And I think it's what makes me the actress that I am. That's why I ran to theater. I felt safe on the stage because that's where I could live all this stuff. And that was in my head that I created. That was my safety net. You know, I lived in the hood, so I was a quirky kid in the hood. You know, I didn't do the things that the hood kids did. Cause my mom, like, on the weekends, she would send me down to the suburbs. So I didn't have idle time to play in the streets and do things that the kids in the neighborhood would say.

[Hoda Kotb]

Right, right, right.

[Taraji P. Henson]

And thank God for my mom, because our neighbor, she got robbed twice. I was with her twice.

[Hoda Kotb]

How old were you?

[Taraji P. Henson]

I was 6 the first time and 12 the second time.

[Hoda Kotb]

She's so Pete's man.

[Taraji P. Henson]

And the second time, the guy hit her so hard and a retina tore. She had to get. Yeah. And then. And the first time, the guy held a gun up to her head. Um, so her.

[Hoda Kotb]

How does the six year old process that? I can't even.

[Taraji P. Henson]

I probably. I've been traumatized. But here's the deal. My mother was, you know, she didn't realize her strength at the time because she, you know, I would, you know, now I'm getting older and I'm driving now, and I'm getting a life. I'm becoming a young adult. And she would just be so scared. You're going out. You're going out now. What time are you coming? And she couldn't understand why I was so fearless, having witnessed her be, you know, that traumatization we went through. But I told her, I said, mom, you don't realize that you showed me how to be strong because you didn't run into a closet and hide. You know what you did the next day you woke up and you covered up your Black eye with your makeup, and you put your clothes on, and you made yourself as pretty as you could with that black eye. And you went out into the world and faced it again. What do you think that showed me?

[Hoda Kotb]

That is super powerful.

[Taraji P. Henson]

Both times, she did it. Both times. The second time, the guy pulled. The first time, the guy pulled her hair so hard, he pulled a plug of her hair out. What did she do? She got up the next day, she brushed that plug of hair out, she put her makeup on, and she faced the world yet again. So what do you think that's showing me?

[Hoda Kotb]

That's like she. Yeah. That's not what she told you. It's what she showed you every day.

[Taraji P. Henson]

It's not your words. It's your actions.

[Hoda Kotb]

I like to ask this question, and it seems to reveal a lot about each person I've interviewed. Same question. So let me try it on you. Okay. Close your eyes for a second and stand inside of what was your childhood bedroom.

[Taraji P. Henson]

I see it.

[Hoda Kotb]

Whatever the sheets were.

[Taraji P. Henson]

Holly Hobby.

[Hoda Kotb]

Holly Hobby sheets. Well, tell me everything that you see. The walls, the shelves, the sheets.

[Taraji P. Henson]

I see the Holly Hobby matching bed sheets with the. It was either Strawberry Shortcake or Holly Hobby. One of the. One of the. I had both, but I can't. You know. Right. I think I'm in Holly Hobby. And then I had the curtains. I had the comforter. I had the sheets. I see my kitchenette set. Cause I was a domestic player. I didn't play with Barbie. She had too much. I was poor, had my dog, living in the condo, driving a convertible Corvette. I don't have none of that. You not gonna have none of that. So I played with Baby Alive. I love it. I loved it.

[Hoda Kotb]

I love it.

[Taraji P. Henson]

That made sense to me. I see my closet where all my clothes were. I see. Oh, God, I can't remember. I remember this like this. At the foot of my bed, there was a desk there. And that's where I would do my hair. I burned my eyelid there one time. Cause I learned how to work Marcel's. Cause I went to get my hair cut, and I chopped my hair all off. And my mother was like, I'm not doing your hair anymore. And I was like, mission accomplished. So ninth grade, I left the kitchen dudes behind. I ventured out into the world, became a big girl. But, yeah, I burnt my eyelid there. I closed my eye in the nick of time when the Marcel slipped out of my hand and I burned my eyelid.

[Hoda Kotb]

Wow. Did you have posters? Anyone?

[Taraji P. Henson]

You. I. In that room?

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah.

[Taraji P. Henson]

No. Because I was young. By the time we moved to Oxon Hill, I was a Prince fan. So I wallpapered an entire wall with all of his posters.

[Hoda Kotb]

Wow.

[Taraji P. Henson]

Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

How were you as a student? How were you in school?

[Taraji P. Henson]

I was a good student. But I remember when I started having problems, it was really problems in school. I just started showing out because I didn't. I knew inside I didn't belong there because they weren't. They weren't nurturing the creative side of me.

[Hoda Kotb]

I see.

[Taraji P. Henson]

And so that was just running amok, and I had nowhere to channel that. So I started becoming a class clown in the ninth grade, and I was in a math and arts program, and I did not belong there because I am not wired mathematically or scientifically. I am an artist.

[Hoda Kotb]

Okay, so since you weren't wired that way, why did you go into electrical engineering?

[Taraji P. Henson]

Because I was. Okay, so I was in the hood. I went to hood schools. Right. And I was very smart. Like, I was smart, and I was out grading. I was getting high grades and everything. And so my middle school was like, you know, in D.C. you go elementary to the sixth grade. Sixth, seventh, and eighth is middle school. Sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth is middle school. And then 10th, 11th, and 12th is high school.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah.

[Taraji P. Henson]

So in the ninth grade, they had a math and science program. And I just. Like, me and my best friend, she. You know, Tracy J. Jenkins, who runs my foundation. She's your best friend? Since the seventh grade. We just always felt advanced, like we didn't belong. Like they. I don't know, just mentally, we just were, like, ahead or. I think it's that creative side. You know what I mean? We just felt like we didn't belong. And so the high school, a teacher was talking to us about Ballou High School, and they had this ninth grade program for smart students. And so we went.

[Hoda Kotb]

You guys. You said y' all were friends.

[Taraji P. Henson]

Taraji for best friends. That's the difference.

[Hoda Kotb]

Besties.

[Taraji P. Henson]

Okay.

[Hoda Kotb]

So now here we are. You're in college. I loved your. By the way. I loved your room. I loved hearing about that.

[Taraji P. Henson]

I can open my eyes now.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah, you can.

[Taraji P. Henson]

Oh, okay. I felt safe there.

[Hoda Kotb]

I know. I could tell.

[Taraji P. Henson]

That's when times were great.

[Hoda Kotb]

I love how you describe it. I loved how you felt then. I mean, the Holly Hobby, the whole thing.

[Taraji P. Henson]

Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

What was the moment? You know, there's a moment, and yours happened when you were 6, when your mom was robbed. But was that when you. When your childhood just kind of went and to fast forward, you were like, childhood, you know, there's usually a moment that childhood gets. I don't wanna say shattered. That sounds too big.

[Taraji P. Henson]

But I don't think you didn't have that. No. You know why? Because my mother was very protective of my innocence. And she really nurtured it and sheltered it.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh, that's beautiful.

[Taraji P. Henson]

My mother sheltered it. My father was like, here's the world. Go out there, pull up.

[Hoda Kotb]

You know?

[Taraji P. Henson]

But I had that balance. Like, I had one where my mother just, like, she really sheltered me. And my dad, it's not that he just let me run am, but he wanted to make sure that he was instilling morals and the right things so that I could be street smart, you know, so that nobody can come and take advantage of me, you know, so he would show me the streets. And I think that's why I never ended up on hard drugs or becoming, like, an alcoholic. Well, he was an alcoholic, so I was like, I'm not gonna do that.

[Hoda Kotb]

The opposite of that. You know?

[Taraji P. Henson]

The opposite of that. But I think the reason why I never did like hard drugs, that I never, like, hung out in the streets or felt the urge to, like, go be in the streets and do these things is because my dad let me do them.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh, that's interesting.

[Taraji P. Henson]

You know what I mean? Like, he was like. When I went my freshman year of college, there were so many girls that got pregnant. And I'm not judging anything or anybody. Please. Cause I ended up pregnant my junior year of college. At that time, I was 24. But still. You know what I mean? I'm not judging, but I'm just saying I could tell the difference between the kids who had been out in the world already and the ones who were very sheltered because it was almost like, I can't wait to get away from my parents.

[Hoda Kotb]

Then you go crazy. That is. You got that so. Right.

[Taraji P. Henson]

Yeah.

[Hoda Kotb]

So you went to school in North Carolina. You transferred to Howard.

[Taraji P. Henson]

Yes, because I flunked out of the math and science program. Again.

[Hoda Kotb]

Because that wasn't your thing.

[Taraji P. Henson]

It wasn't my thing.

[Hoda Kotb]

See, that was putting a circle in a square. We knew that wasn't right. But did you just think that's responsible?

[Taraji P. Henson]

Well, I didn't get accepted into the High School of Fine Arts.

[Hoda Kotb]

That's what.

[Taraji P. Henson]

And so I detoured. And I was hanging out with a very smart friend, Candice Dickens. If you're out there, I love you, girl. She's really smart, and she's always been smart. She's wired mathematically and scientifically. So we were hanging out, and I Was like, oh, we were friends. And I was like, she was going to North Carolina. I knew I wanted to go to college.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah.

[Taraji P. Henson]

I knew I wanted to do something and be something, but I just didn't know what. And I was like, that sounds good.

[Hoda Kotb]

Let's try that.

[Taraji P. Henson]

Let me try that.

[Hoda Kotb]

When you went to Howard, did it just fit? Was there something about it just clicked right in?

[Taraji P. Henson]

That's when I knew I was where I was supposed to be. I felt I didn't feel right. I just knew I didn't belong at A and T. I knew it, but I did it. I followed through. I went through the whole year. And then I felt pre calc. And I called my dad and he was like, good. And I said, what?

[Hoda Kotb]

Huh?

[Taraji P. Henson]

He was like, yeah, that's what you needed to do. You needed to fall on your face. But that's how he taught. That's how he taught how. He would parent me. He wouldn't give me the solutions. He would set up the problems. And he said, you always have choices, but life is choice driven. It's always gonna come down to what choice you make. And so he put me in that crossroad and be like, you got two choices. Good luck. Call me when you get back. And I will be like, ah.

[Hoda Kotb]

It's so funny, because in hindsight, it's beautiful parenting, but when you're in the middle of it, you're like, help me out here. Somebody help me.

[Taraji P. Henson]

Yeah. But he knew what he put in me, and he knew I would always come back. And my dad was always like that. So that's the type of. I miss him so much. Especially in times like this when the world looks crazy because he could just. He would say something and just make it make sense, you know, or make me feel safe. And I just hate that he. I mean, in a way, I'm glad he's not here because he's protected and he's safe. And that's one less person I have to worry about. One less person that I love. Cause I know he's already safe. But then again, where's. I don't feel safe, you know?

[Hoda Kotb]

What did you lose when he. When he passed?

[Taraji P. Henson]

My protector, My friend. He was a. He was spiritual guider. Like, I would call him and he would be like, you're gonna meet three people. And I would be like, what? No, listen to me. I was in my prayer closet. You gonna meet three people, and these three people gonna change your life. And I was like, what? He said, just. Just. Just listen to what I'm Saying, and just be prepared, ok? He would say things like, I know it looks dark right now, baby, he said, but when that thing crack open for you, you gonna need shades.

[Hoda Kotb]

Did he get to see you in your glory, in your life?

[Taraji P. Henson]

He did. The last. He didn't get. He didn't get a chance to. Wait, wait, wait. What was the last thing he saw? I think he saw Hustle and Flow.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh.

[Taraji P. Henson]

Hustle and Flow was the last thing he saw. And he did get to hear that I got nominated for an Oscar because he was in the hospital at the time when his liver was failing. And I read the letter, but I remember calling him before he had been admitted to the hospital, when he was still talking and everything and coherent. And I told him, I said, dad, Dad, I was nominated for an Oscar. But I said, my performance, the song. And he took a deep inhale and exhale because I know in his mind he was waiting. He wanted to see that. Because my entire life, once my father realized that I was not an athlete because he didn't have a boy, and he was gonna try to make me be that boy. I was like, dad, my two left feet, I'm not an athlete. But when he zeroed in that it was talent, you know, my arts, for me, he really doubled down on that.

[Hoda Kotb]

I love it.

[Taraji P. Henson]

And the seeds that he sowed into me were the affirmations. You are the greatest actress in the world. Walk around like that. You are going to get that Oscar. You walk around like you already. And he would tell me that every time. You are the greatest actor alive. He would tell me. I grew up believing that he was telling me this when I was little. So I had no choice but to walk in that path because he paved it and I saw it. Once he started saying it to me, I started seeing it.

[Hoda Kotb]

Okay, that explains you totally. Now I get you because I listened to one of your speeches that I quote all the time because I find it so beautiful and moving. But you talked about naysayers, and you said, the naysayers are everywhere, and they're gonna tell you you can't. And you said, they told me that I wasn't gonna graduate from Howard, but you know what? I did. And you said, I walked across that stage with a baby on my hip. And then they told me I was too old to go to Hollywood. So you know what?

[Taraji P. Henson]

I did?

[Hoda Kotb]

And I was literally, I've watched it. When I'm in a funky, I rewatch it. Why? Because it reminds me that naysayers are there. But what, you know, inside you. And I was wondering, like, where did that come from? But that what you just described made it so clear. But when those naysayers are yelling in your ear or whispering or finding their way in your brain, how did you, how were you able to fend them off?

[Taraji P. Henson]

I'm an only child, remember? I can have a whole world inside of my head and I can go there and no one can touch me.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh, oh. Do you remember who said to you,

[Taraji P. Henson]

oh, so many people. Long as you don't become the naysayer.

[Hoda Kotb]

Has that ever happened?

[Taraji P. Henson]

Oh, I can. You know, we all do it. Yeah. And then I'd be like, girl, you better stop tripping. You know better. And also the people around me, you know, it's all. It's all. Can't do anything alone and by yourself. You need people. You need a team. You need soldiers, friends, you know, companions, whatever. And they have to be sowing seeds as well. You pour into each other. That's how that works. And if you're doing the pouring and nothing's being poured into you, then nine times out of ten, you need to let that go.

[Hoda Kotb]

More ahead with Taraji P. Henson Stay with us.

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[Taraji P. Henson]

You're the boss. Hey Google, when's my next meeting?

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[Hoda Kotb]

Well, what I love about what you do is I love all your work, but that's not what I love about you. I mean, your work's fantastic.

[Taraji P. Henson]

Thank you.

[Hoda Kotb]

But somehow you've used all of the platform which most people use to nourish themselves, to make more for themselves, to get more for themselves. You don't do that. You're the one who's out there advocating for other actresses to get paid more for yourself and everybody. You're the one who's standing up there going, let's talk mental health. And they're like, wait, wait, wait. But we wanna ask you about your dress, Taraji. We wanna ask you about the movie. You're like. You put work in the air into the world about that. I mean, that's a conscious, obviously, effort. Is this, like, a plan? This is what you always had, how you intended it to be?

[Taraji P. Henson]

It's not a plan. It's not. I sit home and I'm calculating like, this is what I wanna do today. You know, just in the moment. And I'm human and I understand. Humans need humans. I know that. Yeah, I know. I had a talk with God a long time ago. I'm gonna tell you, okay, So I did this little movie called Baby Boy with John Singleton, May Rest in Peace, and Tyrese. And it was huge for me back then. I was a female lead. I was new to Hollywood, and I just remember everybody coming to me going, oh, my God, you're gonna blow up. Do you understand what John Singleton does to people's careers? Look at this person and this person. I don't know. Discernment told me something different. And I just knew it wasn't gonna be that way. And I hadn't even really fully figured out the politics of Hollywood yet, but I just. Something sat on my heart and was like, I don't know if that's gonna be my story. I don't know that that's gonna happen like that overnight for me. And so, sure enough, But I knew deep down it would for Tyrese.

[Hoda Kotb]

You did.

[Taraji P. Henson]

And it's no hate or anything. I just knew. But what started that layer was the first layer of the difference between women and men in Hollywood. But it still didn't hit me yet. Cause I was still working, you understand? As long as I had a job, I was cool.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah.

[Taraji P. Henson]

You know, I hadn't gotten into the politics. Y' all still had the rose colored lenses on. You know, everything was saying like, oh, I got a car seat. I got a job. Let me call my mom and tell her I'm gonna be on this week. You know, it's exciting and new.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah.

[Taraji P. Henson]

And so I just remember everybody going, oh, my God, you're gonna be big. You're gonna be Baby Boy. And I was like, I just. I don't know.

[Hoda Kotb]

I'm feeling that. Right.

[Taraji P. Henson]

What happened after Baby Boy? Tyrese booked two franchise films. Huge Transformers and Fast and Furious. I still have not booked my franchise film. Been in the game almost 30 years. No franchise film. I'm not gonna cry about it. I mean, it just. I know what it is now. Now I'm behind on. Behind. I'm on the other side of the table now.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah.

[Taraji P. Henson]

So there's this fan that you can't. It's not like you can't hurt my feelings anymore, because now I know there's politics involved. So now I know. Don't expect, you know.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah.

[Taraji P. Henson]

But that sucks. So I get it. It still sucks. Yeah. But I'm not setting myself up to hurt my own feelings.

[Hoda Kotb]

There you go.

[Taraji P. Henson]

You know.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah. So do you think speaking about it. Speaking about equal pay, Speaking about things which, by the way, people are afraid to talk about it. Don't talk about it. Aren't interested in talking about it. That's why when you talk about it, everyone's like, taraji's finally talking about it. And then everyone says, oh, yeah, me too.

[Taraji P. Henson]

But here's the problem that bugs me.

[Hoda Kotb]

What?

[Taraji P. Henson]

I don't know why that moment was chosen to be the moment. Cause it's not like I'm the only one that's been saying it. Everyone is saying it. I'm not. And it ain't just black women saying it. Like, y', all, come on.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yes.

[Taraji P. Henson]

This is not a new conversation. I don't know why the universe picked that moment or picked me to amplify my message. I don't know why.

[Hoda Kotb]

Right.

[Taraji P. Henson]

But I'm just glad it happened. It had to be somebody.

[Hoda Kotb]

But, you know, it's so funny. While I was reading and learning about all this, it reminded me of when I first started working and I was in such a struggle for years. And they kept saying, you're lucky. My agent was like, just say thank you. Just say thank you. Not many girls want this job. This job is amazing. And that becomes part of you. And there was a point. And I remember I said to my agent at one point, she goes, I got you this. I said, ask for X. She goes, I'm not asking for that because I represent a lot of people. And I said, I know what I'm worth asking for.

[Taraji P. Henson]

That's when you should have been like, okay, thanks, you're fired. And I'm finding someone who will fight for me.

[Hoda Kotb]

Who will fight for me.

[Taraji P. Henson]

Because you. What you're not gonna do is tell me my worth. You don't go to work with me every day and you're getting 5% of my money. Do you want me to come slap you? That's who I am now. Like, don't play with me.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah, you're right.

[Taraji P. Henson]

No, seriously, I'm her now. Like, I'm not dumb now. I'm not this young little kid fresh off the bus, like, woo hoo. I have value.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yes. Yes. And you know your worth.

[Taraji P. Henson]

I know my worth.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah.

[Taraji P. Henson]

And they did a thing with this social media because I, you know, I joined social media years ago because I was hijacked into joining. So I didn't wanna be on social media. I didn't. And what happened was I had fans hitting me up like, are you on Facebook? Because they're asking for money. And, you know, the justice part of me was like, somebody's stealing from people using my name. So I went to work and that's so literally, that's how I got on social media. I had to. And then the guy that helped me was like, you don't wanna kill this page because you have like 700,000 followers. And then you'll have to start. I didn't even know what followers were,

[Hoda Kotb]

and I didn't know.

[Taraji P. Henson]

So that's how I got on. It was Facebook. And then when Twitter came along, everybody was like, tweeting. And I was like, I don't wanna do that. I don't want people all in my personal life following me around, you know? And then of course, it became a part of the industry. And then one girlfriend talked me into it and I got on and I liked Twitter. I understood it, and that was fine. And it was safe. Cause you didn't have to see me. I could say a little something and just hide you Know, but then Instagram came along. But like I said, this whole social media thing only helped the artist. Because when I joined social media, there were no social media firms that would help you build these numbers. So every last person that hit follow that is cause of me.

[Hoda Kotb]

That's right.

[Taraji P. Henson]

That was no one posting for me.

[Hoda Kotb]

Right. No one's trying to help you out.

[Taraji P. Henson]

That was my personality. Those were my words. Still to this day, I do my own now. I get busy sometimes, like the business stuff. I have someone post that, yeah, help me out here. But if it's real time stuff, that it's me, that's me. Those are my words.

[Hoda Kotb]

The mental health part of your life. Your dad suffered from PTSD you were describing. Cause he was in Vietnam and went through all that. And you yourself, just like most people in the world. And therapy, of course, has its stigmas and the rest. But how did you find your way to feeling good mentally?

[Taraji P. Henson]

I still work on that. I mean, it's not like you go,

[Hoda Kotb]

no, you don't fix, I'm fixed.

[Taraji P. Henson]

Everything's perfect now. I'll be great for the rest of my life. No, it doesn't work. It's ebb. And it's every day, you know, every day it's.

[Hoda Kotb]

Is there anything that worked especially for

[Taraji P. Henson]

you that you found, you know what works for me? Being quiet? What works for me is being quiet. Taking time for me, being still. Because you can't hear anything in the noise. You can't work out anything in chaos. So whenever I feel like it's too much, I get real still and I get real quiet.

[Hoda Kotb]

It's funny. Young Pueblo was sitting right in that seat. He's a beautiful writer. And he said, sometimes when I get terrified, he said, I sit on the edge of my bed and I don't do anything. I say I'm scared, and I let. Because the feeling will come and I'll feel it in my body. I feel it almost moving. And you said, if you sit long enough, it goes away. But it's just having the courage to sit through it, not exercise through it or call your friend through it or. It's kind of your philosophy. Keep it quiet. And I like the show that you did with your friend. Oh, my God. Because it did something. First of all, it was like peeking. It was like a window into it. But also it taught the story of, like, the stigma is erased. Say it, say it, say it. What kind of things?

[Taraji P. Henson]

Nothing changes in silence. Nothing changes in the dark. If you keep sweeping stuff under the carpet that you're Gonna die. That. That dust is going to come from up under that cover and consume you. You know you have to deal with it. There is no way to get. If there's a nit to get over it, you can't go over. You can't go under. You got to go through it. That's the only way to grow. We are not here. Don't nobody want to hear how easy. How are you going to help another human if you have never been traumatized or you don't have any many obstacles. That is not life. That's not real. Humans need humans. I don't care what color you are. And if you stupid enough to sit up here and spend your life thinking about race this, race that girl, boy, you're missing it. Your spirit is coming back.

[Hoda Kotb]

How important, by the way.

[Taraji P. Henson]

You are not gonna rest in peace.

[Hoda Kotb]

You're not. You can't.

[Taraji P. Henson]

How. Tell me about.

[Hoda Kotb]

Tell me about God in your life.

[Taraji P. Henson]

I am not a religious person. Like when I say that I'm not downing anything. It's just that I don't follow the structure or the foundations of. You gotta go and do this. Because sometimes it. I just know God and I know God exists. I know God is real. I've seen God work in this world. I've seen God work in my life and other people's lives. I love God and I will tell the world that. You know, I don't go to church every Sunday. You know, I. Church is in me. You know, I will do church online. You know, if I feel like I need to congregate. It's just harder to do those things when you become.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yes. Yeah.

[Taraji P. Henson]

Yes. You know, so in order to keep my peace and not make going to church an obstacle. Yes, church is in me and churches in my home or my computer or, you know, I have part of you, my friends around me. We pray together. You know, God is very much in my life and around me. And so that's my strength and that's what I pull from. Because I, you know, humans are gonna break your heart. I'm a human. I break people's heart. I let people down all the time. That's what we do as humans. We can't help it. You know, it's called being human. So that I don't put too much power in human's hands. Because I know what I'm human. I know what's gonna happen. You're gonna let me down and you're not gonna mean it. Cause you're going through your own thing. So there's my compassion and mercy. But. But I have a God. And my God never lets me down.

[Hoda Kotb]

More with Taraji P. Henson when we come back.

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[Hoda Kotb]

So Taraji, finally, if you have a day before you, you open your eyes and it's all yours. It's just to fill your cup. Nobody's gonna. You don't have any obligations. It is yours to replenish, nourish, repot, whatever it takes to make you feel whole again. How do you, how would you spend that day?

[Taraji P. Henson]

Oh, like I spend most of my days when I'm replenished. Like I can't wait to get back home to my house and my dog. It's that simple.

[Hoda Kotb]

What's your dog's name?

[Taraji P. Henson]

Buddha.

[Hoda Kotb]

Buddha. I love it.

[Taraji P. Henson]

I love it.

[Hoda Kotb]

So what does it look like? You cozying on the couch?

[Taraji P. Henson]

It depends. Like lately I've been floating on a noodle in my pool because it's been so hot there.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah, it feels good.

[Taraji P. Henson]

It's incredible. That or I the other day I was home by myself and me and my dog and I opened up all my patio doors. I have a lot of doors. I have a beautiful view, 360 view of the of LA. And I grilled surf and turf on the grill. Like I just pamper myself. I have a salon in my House where I go and I do my. I call it. It's okay. I have a salon. And as a little girl, I used to play. Cause, you know, I'm.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yes.

[Taraji P. Henson]

And little, you know, only childs. Very creative. And I had all my little imaginary friends. And I remember as a kid, I was always like. Because, you know, we didn't have a lot of money. And I was like, when I grow up, I'm gonna have a little girl's room where I have all my toys we couldn't afford. I'm gonna buy them and put them in this room. Well, my salon has become that. And so I have. Don't judge me, please. I have doll. Not doll heads, but they use them for cosmetology. So I have them every. I got. I have white girls with platinum blonde hair all the way to dark. Dark girls with the curly C4 hair. No 4C hair, you know, and they're all there, and I talk to them, and they're my clients. And I also have silicone hands, and I practice doing nails. It's actually a real salon, and I have a square register. I don't have any clients, but I ring imaginary things up, and I check people out, and I have an appointment book, and I write appointments in there. And I.

[Hoda Kotb]

You're the cutest thing I've ever seen. You're the cute. First of all, the fact that you said, when I get older, I'm gonna have all the things I didn't have when I was a kid.

[Taraji P. Henson]

I don't tell myself no, and I live within my means. Like I. I live within my means, and I shop high, low, like everything doesn't have to be.

[Hoda Kotb]

But I love the creative stuff. Always came out of you somehow. The nails and the hair has always been. Because that's the perfect part.

[Taraji P. Henson]

I have to stay in the creative realm, or I wither up and die. And that's what kept me sane during the pandemic. I couldn't be on a stage. I couldn't be on set.

[Hoda Kotb]

Ah, so you did.

[Taraji P. Henson]

So I created in my salon, and then when the world opened back up, I was like, I want to go back out. I like it in here.

[Hoda Kotb]

You're like, I'm so good.

[Taraji P. Henson]

They don't talk back to me, and they love everything I do.

[Hoda Kotb]

Well, I love that you have. By the way, you can always tell someone. So is your best friend your 3am phone call when you're stuck, who do you call?

[Taraji P. Henson]

Oh, Tracy.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah. Without question.

[Taraji P. Henson]

Oh, without question. It's not even a. Most times I don't even have to call her. She feels it. That's how we are, though.

[Hoda Kotb]

And Tracy was on the show with you. The peace of mind. Yeah. I loved seeing that and seeing her. By the way, you're awesome, man.

[Taraji P. Henson]

Thank you.

[Hoda Kotb]

You're just an awesome. Taraji P. Henson, thank you so much for being with me, us. We appreciate it.

[Taraji P. Henson]

Thanks for having me.

[Hoda Kotb]

Making space with Hoda Kotvi is produced by Allison Berger and Alexa Casavecchia along with Kate Saunders. Our associate audio engineer is Juliana Mostarillogical. Our audio engineer is Katie Lau. Original music by John Estes. Bryson Barnes is our head of audio production. Missy Dunlop Parsons is our executive producer. Libby least is the executive vice president of today and lifestyle.

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