Vicky Nguyen on Her Immigrant Story and A Love Letter to America

Summary

Making Space with Hoda Kotb: Vicky Nguyen on Her Immigrant Story and A Love Letter to America

Host: Hoda Kotb
Guest: Vicky Nguyen, Anchor and Correspondent at NBC News
Episode Release Date: April 2, 2025
Podcast: Making Space with Hoda Kotb

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1. Introduction to Vicky Nguyen

In this heartfelt episode, Hoda Kotb welcomes Vicky Nguyen, a distinguished journalist and correspondent with NBC News, to discuss her profound immigrant journey and the resilience her family demonstrated in fleeing Vietnam. Vicky introduces her memoir, Boat Baby, providing listeners with an intimate look into her family's escape from communist Vietnam and their quest for a new life in America.

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2. Vicky’s Family Escape from Vietnam

Vicky recounts the harrowing decision her parents made to flee Vietnam in 1978, just eight months before her birth. Highlighting the brutality of the Vietnam War and the oppressive communist regime that followed, she explains how her parents' desire for freedom and a better future for their child compelled them to embark on a perilous escape.

Notable Quote:
“Having a child sort of crystallizes, this is not where we want to live. This is not how we want to raise our daughter.” (03:24)

---

3. Journey as Refugees: Escape, Dangers, and Challenges

The narrative delves into the clandestine planning required to escape Vietnam, emphasizing the secrecy and risks involved. Vicky describes her family’s encounter with smugglers and the treacherous two-day journey across the South China Sea on a crowded fishing boat. They faced threats from Thai pirates who demanded gold, testing her parents' composure and determination to reach safety.

Notable Quote:
“They demanded gold, but we gave them some and continued our journey.” (10:44)

---

4. Arrival in Malaysia and Life in Refugee Camps

Upon reaching Pulau Bidong, Malaysia, Vicky's family joined thousands of other refugees in a makeshift camp. Life there was austere, with basic rations of rice and cabbage and limited access to essentials. The community within the camp was tight-knit, providing a semblance of normalcy amidst uncertainty.

Notable Quote:
“We all slept by each other like cornwood.” (15:43)

---

5. Tragic Loss of an Uncle and Its Impact

Tragedy struck when Vicky’s uncle, Tam, was violently killed in Oregon, leading to profound grief for her parents. This event underscored the challenges immigrants face in a new country and the lingering traumas that can affect entire families.

Notable Quote:
“If my parents hadn't chosen that restaurant on that day, in that moment, they never would have caught that guy.” (24:17)

---

6. Arrival in America and Cultural Assimilation

Vicky describes her family's relocation to Eugene, Oregon, where they encountered a vastly different culture and environment. Her parents immediately sought to integrate, enrolling in community college and working diligently to provide for their family. Vicky's early childhood memories include her first birthday celebration and the overwhelming appreciation for the new amenities and opportunities available in the U.S.

Notable Quote:
“They couldn't believe they had an apartment with a 9-inch television and a stove and... stairs that they could go up.” (19:04)

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7. Overcoming Hate Crimes and Building Resilience

The episode touches on the emotional toll of anti-Asian hate crimes, particularly referencing the Atlanta spa shootings. Vicky shares a poignant moment when Hoda noticed her distress, leading to a supportive interaction that allowed Vicky to embrace her identity and address her community's struggles openly.

Notable Quote:
“You gave me permission to be like, yes, I am Asian American... it's okay to express it.” (30:10)

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8. Vicky’s Career in Journalism and Advice to Students

Vicky reflects on her journey in journalism, emphasizing the importance of attitude, perseverance, and seizing opportunities. She advises aspiring journalists to focus on personal growth and to refrain from comparing themselves to others, reinforcing the value of authenticity and hard work.

Notable Quote:
“Focus on being the best version of yourself and the rest works itself out.” (40:19)

---

9. Personal Insights and Daily Life

Vicky shares a glimpse into her ideal free day, emphasizing the importance of mindfulness, reading, cooking, and spending quality time with her family. These personal anecdotes highlight her balanced approach to life, blending professional responsibilities with personal well-being.

Notable Quote:
“I'm trying to soak it in and be with my thoughts, trying to slow my mind a little.” (38:11)

---

10. Closing Thoughts and Key Takeaways

The conversation concludes with Vicky expressing gratitude for the support and opportunities she has received. She underscores the significance of community, mentorship, and paying it forward, embodying the essence of her memoir’s title, Boat Baby—a testament to her family's enduring spirit and love for America.

Notable Quote:
“As much as they are proud of being Vietnamese, they also understood we're here now. We're gonna make the most of what we have.” (25:00)

---

Key Insights and Lessons

• Resilience and Perseverance: Vicky’s story illustrates the unwavering determination required to overcome adversity and build a new life from the ground up.

• Importance of Community: The support from communities, mentors, and sponsors played a crucial role in Vicky’s successful integration into American society.

• Authenticity and Self-Focus: Emphasizing personal growth and authenticity over comparison fosters a healthier and more fulfilling career and personal life.

• Legacy of Sacrifice: Vicky honors her parents’ sacrifices by pursuing excellence and extending support to others, embodying the values of empathy and compassion.

---

Conclusion

Vicky Nguyen’s immigrant story is a powerful narrative of courage, sacrifice, and the relentless pursuit of a better life. Her memoir, Boat Baby, and this episode of Making Space with Hoda Kotb serve as inspirational guides for anyone navigating the complexities of immigration, identity, and personal growth. Vicky’s journey is a love letter to America, highlighting the nation’s capacity for compassion and the strength of the human spirit.

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Recommended Reading:
Boat Baby by Vicky Nguyen – An intimate memoir detailing Vicky’s family’s escape from Vietnam and their journey to building a new life in America.

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Note: For a more immersive experience and further insights, listeners are encouraged to read Vicky Nguyen’s memoir and tune into this episode of “Making Space with Hoda Kotb.”

Transcript

[Hoda Kotb]

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[Vicky Wynn]

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[Vicki Wynn]

Have you ever known somebody for years and then suddenly you find something out about their lives and you wonder to yourself, how is it possible this person has this rich of a story? And I had absolutely no idea. Well, that's exactly what happened between my colleague and friend Vicki Wynn and me one day at the Today show. You probably know Vicki just the way I did. She's an anchor and correspondent in NBC News. She's smart, she's quick, and she's one hell of a journalist. But the storyline of her life is far more complex than any story she's told on tv. When Vicki was just eight months old, her parents fled Vietnam in the dead of night. What would unfold in the days, months and years to come is almost unimaginable. Deciding to leave for America is one thing. Learning how to live as an American is another. Vicki's life story is layered. It's complicated and beautiful. It's one of triumph and perseverance. And now, for the first time, it is detailed beautifully in her new memoir. It's called Boat Baby. This conversation will resonate with anyone who has ever felt that they have one foot in one place and one foot in another. I cannot tell you how in awe I am of my friend Vicki. I come into this conversation intrigued and hungry to learn more. And I hope you do too. I'm Hoda Kotb. Welcome to my podcast Making Space.

[Hoda Kotb]

So as I'm looking at Vicky Wynn right now, I keep thinking to myself, have you ever in your life and think about this, if you're listening, sat next to someone or known someone for years and realize that all the while they've had this incredible story inside that they never shared. Vicki's one of these people. And I'm saying this in front of you, who is so much about the person who she's with, she asks a.

[Vicki Wynn]

Million questions, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[Hoda Kotb]

So one day I'm sitting with Vicki, and, Vicki, this is so amazing.

[Vicki Wynn]

You start to tell me a little.

[Hoda Kotb]

Bit about your life, and I have to tell you, I was shocked.

[Vicki Wynn]

I was surprised.

[Hoda Kotb]

I was in awe of you.

[Vicki Wynn]

I respected you.

[Hoda Kotb]

But after you told me the story, it was 10,000 times more. So let's back up.

[Vicki Wynn]

The way you navigate life is you.

[Hoda Kotb]

Just do your thing. You've got your kids, your husband. You just. You don't lead with your past.

[Vicky Wynn]

No, I don't lead with my past. I don't lead with my identity. And I think what I've always led with. And as I sit and kind of reflect, which is something I also don't ever do, I realize so much of who I have become was because of who my parents were and what they modeled for me from the get go. So I remember that conversation, Hoda. And you were like, wait, what? Your family came from Vietnam. They got on a boat and they escaped, and you were refugees. And, you know, your reaction kind of reminded me, oh, gosh, not everybody has this same path to America. And so when there was an opportunity to write it down, I thought, this is worthwhile. Because Hoda's reaction was one fraction of what I hoped would resonate with a.

[Hoda Kotb]

Lot of people I want to live in the early part. You don't remember the early part. A lot of this just came from recollections of your parents. But it was Vietnam, the Vietnam War. What did your parents do in Vietnam during that time?

[Vicky Wynn]

So my parents were working, and then eventually, when my dad was 18, he joined the South Vietnamese army because the Vietnam War was happening and there was no draft dodging or medical excuses. It was. His brother went. He was gonna go, and he was a medic in the South Vietnamese Army. And luckily for him, he wasn't part of that first brigade of, like, frontline soldiers. But some of the people he was in basic training with were killed within weeks of entering the war.

[Hoda Kotb]

So this is a kid, A teenage kid, yes. Who now has friends who've died. He's not married at the time.

[Vicky Wynn]

No, not married at the time. The war ends on April 30, 1975. This year actually marks the 50th anniversary of the fall of Saigon and so that's 1975. I'm not born for another three and a half years. My parents met after the war. They were just young people. And in Vietnam, the way they described it, it wasn't a celebratory time when they met. Everybody was just kind of going through the motions. If you were on the side, the losing side, the South Vietnamese and American side, you are now living under communist rule. You had a different set of customs to follow. And people were kind of paranoid because they were worried someone was gonna report them or they had been on the wrong side of things. What was gonna happen next?

[Hoda Kotb]

With good reason, because during that time, as is the case in a lot of communist countries, and I visited a few of them, and that was one of the things. People would watch their neighbors take notes on what their neighbors were doing, report their neighbors to the authorities, and their neighbors would be punished. That was what your parents were living.

[Vicky Wynn]

With day after day after day, that kind of paranoia. Even children were being taught in school. Listen for your parents. What are they saying? What are they talking about? Come back and tell the teachers if you hear these things. So it's that backdrop.

[Hoda Kotb]

Holy moly. Right, okay, so your parents.

[Vicky Wynn]

Yes.

[Hoda Kotb]

Did they fall in love there? And what was your mom? You said, I know what your dad was doing. What was your mom doing?

[Vicky Wynn]

So my mom at the time was working for various American companies. So she worked for an American contracting company, and she would practice her English. She'd be at, like, an American military base, going around kind of like checking jeeps and big military vehicles and writing down where there were dings and scratches and that kind of thing. But it was her job at Holt International Adoption Agency. That would eventually be our ticket to America, but we wouldn't know that for a while.

[Hoda Kotb]

So your parents meet, they fall in love, and they have this amazing kid. Her name's Vicky. Why did they name you Vicky? Did they say?

[Vicky Wynn]

Well, they definitely didn't name me Vicky. They named me Ng. So I have a whole Vietnamese name, right? Because that was the time. And so they named me after one of, like, really popular singers at the time. Think, like, Vietnamese Madonna, right? She's a really popular singer.

[Hoda Kotb]

What was the name?

[Vicky Wynn]

Baek Yin. She was actually in a Bob Hope special. If you look it up on YouTube, there she is. And so she was a really, like a Dolly Parton, like a really important figure of her time and a very, very famous.

[Hoda Kotb]

So your parents have you. And they're still under this horrible kind of conflic communist rule, and they wanted Out. But sometimes it seems scarier to do that thing than stay where you are with the paranoid people. So tell me what your parents were thinking during that time.

[Vicky Wynn]

So it's 1978, and that's when I was born. And When I was 8 months old, my parents had made the decision. I think having a child sort of crystallizes. This is not where we want to live. This is not how we want to raise our daughter. We want her to have freedom, we want her to have access to education. We have to just go for it, for it. And because they had worked on the American side of the military, my mom had worked with an American adoption agency. They thought, maybe we have a chance, maybe we will be sponsored. But first we gotta make it out of this country and get to a refugee camp.

[Hoda Kotb]

So getting out of the country meant what exactly? Because it must have been under the dark of night. You had to sneak out. You probably couldn't bring anything. What was that initial like, we've gotta go.

[Vicky Wynn]

The planning you can't even talk about because it's so secret and you, it's, it's so difficult. But they eventually were able to find a smuggler because people were trying to get out of the country. I mean, between 75 and 1992, about 2 million people escaped Vietnam. They were called boat people because you had to get on a boat cross the South China Sea to do it. So in 1978, you know, people had already left right when Saigon fell. And over that three year period, they had heard whispers here and there. You kind of hear, how did so and so get out? And people would just disappear from your neighborhood. You'd be like, one day I saw Hoda and then Hoda was gone. I hope Hoda's okay. But you knew without anybody saying anything. Hoda probably tried to escape and go somewhere. They arranged for a smuggler to meet them. They took me, my two uncles and my great aunt. Those were the people who were most equipped to be able to maybe handle this journey. A lot of people did want to leave, but at the time it was like, go out with the people you think you're going to have the best chances with and then maybe you can sponsor them later.

[Hoda Kotb]

So the idea of getting on a boat in the night, by the way, I'm just thinking from a mom's perspective picture. When you're listening to this, you're with your eight month old baby, okay? We're worried if our baby gets diaper rash or needs extra God knows where. And why is the bottle cold or Whatever the idea that they're hopping on a boat with you, Hoda.

[Vicky Wynn]

I remember when I was a new mom and I had an 8 month old. I could barely get out to Target by myself. With the baby, there's no way, right? But they just felt like there was no other choice. So, you know, they got the clothes so they would match the village where they were going. They wouldn't raise any questions. They left in the COVID of darkness, met up with a smug, and on their way to the actual big fishing boat that would take them across the ocean, the South China Sea, they were stopped by Vietnamese police. Like, they thought, this is it, it's over. We, like, barely even made it anywhere. But those police were just patrolling so they could get bribes. So they stopped my parents in the boat and said, get out. Give us your money. Give us your glasses. They took my great aunt's glasses. Imagine you're trying to escape. You can't see very well, and then they take your glasses. But they then let them get back in the boat and leave because then they were waiting for the next set of people.

[Hoda Kotb]

So your family was on that boat, no money, no glasses.

[Vicky Wynn]

They gave some gold. So they were able to give some of the gold to these Vietnamese police. They were able to reserve some of it for themselves. They hid it, right? They're hiding it in sleeves, in clothing, pants, food packages, anywhere you could hide anything. But really, you couldn't take much, right? You could only really take what was on you.

[Hoda Kotb]

On you, right?

[Vicky Wynn]

I had like one little small pink towel that my mom used as my blankie, and that was that. So luckily, that first encounter, they made out with a bribe.

[Hoda Kotb]

So off you go to sea. How long's the journey?

[Vicky Wynn]

It was two days and two nights on the South China Sea.

[Hoda Kotb]

How did your parents describe what it was like to be on the sea in this fishing boat? And what'd you eat?

[Vicky Wynn]

So There were about 68 people on the boat with them. I think they just had really enough water maybe for like one or two extra days because you're hoping that you're going to be able to get to your destination without too much trouble.

[Hoda Kotb]

Where are you trying to get?

[Vicky Wynn]

They're trying to get to Pulobidom. Malaysia.

[Hoda Kotb]

Malaysia.

[Vicky Wynn]

That is where there's a whole refugee city set up, teaming with people. And the United nations is there. There are people helping, you know, get these refugees off of this island to various countries that are willing to take Vietnamese refugees. At the time, it was like Belgium and France and Australia and Canada. My parents, we ended up getting to shore after they survived a Thai pirate attack, which was also very common at that time.

[Hoda Kotb]

Sorry, sorry, did you just say after they survived a Thai pirate attack? So pirates got on the boat?

[Vicky Wynn]

Yes. So at one point they're traveling on this journ from Vietnam. Thankfully they made it from the sampan to the fishing boat. They get on the fishing boat. It's so dark, it's really scary. My mom is thinking like she's hearing all of the stories in her mind of what happened to other people because sometimes you don't make it. Your captain gets lost, there's bad weather, pirates come on, throw the men overboard. There's all kinds of crimes against humanity committed. So they see a speck in the distance and then this pirate ship comes. I mean, literally a pirate ship. Because at that time you had Thai fishermen and they were thinking, we could fish or we could just go on and steal gold from all of these people who are crossing. It's pretty lucrative. So sure enough, these pirates come up, they say, hey, do you need anything? The captain is like, nope, we're good. They're like, where are you going? Well, we're heading that way. Next thing you know, they've boarded the boat, they have guns, they're firing guns in the air. Everyone thinks, this is it, it's over, this is it, we're done. They fortunately, as my parents would tell it, this is like their sunny side up personality. They're like, well, thankfully, you know, they didn't throw anybody overboard. They didn't rape any of the women. All they wanted was gold. So we gave them some gold and then they left and then we kept going.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh my gosh.

[Vicky Wynn]

I just. It's hard to think about like the things that people go through, the traumatic experiences. But it is your attitude and your mindset that either helps or breaks you, makes or breaks you. Right?

[Vicki Wynn]

More with Vicky Wynn when we come back.

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[Jenna Bush Hager]

Everyone, I'm Jenna Bush Hager from the Today show and I'm excited to share my podcast Open Book with Jenna. It is back for season two. Each week, celebrities, experts, friends and authors will share candid stories with me about their lives and new projects. Guests like Rebecca Yarros, Kristin Hannah, Ego Wodom and more. Like a good book, you'll leave feeling inspired and entertained. Join me for my podcast Open Book with Jenna. Listen now on Apple Podcasts.

[Hoda Kotb]

So you get to your destination finally.

[Vicky Wynn]

Yes.

[Hoda Kotb]

And what is waiting there for you?

[Vicky Wynn]

Thousands of people are there. Thousands of people come up to these boats all the time to see, like, are any of their relatives on there? Are any of their neighbors? It's like, who's coming to the island today? You know, because you're just hoping that other people have made it out. Anybody that you know. In a random twist, my dad meets up with someone who is a neighbor back in Saigon and she's apparently about to leave the island. So she has a little plot and she sells it to him. So then our family immediately gets a little 10 foot by 10 foot plots with like a tarp over it, you know, like a little area with a cooking stove and a fire. I mean, that's like a luxurious little spot for them on the refugee camp. Yep.

[Hoda Kotb]

Wow.

[Vicky Wynn]

All of us slept by each other like Cornwood. Yep, Exactly. And we all kind of stayed there for 10 months waiting and waiting and waiting for news of like, who might sponsor you, where you might go next.

[Hoda Kotb]

So did you have, I mean, I was picturing your eight months. When did kids learn to walk? I forgot already one.

[Vicky Wynn]

I think so right around one or 13 months or so, I definitely learned to walk on that beach. That was really all my uncles could do to pass the time.

[Hoda Kotb]

And what about all the basics like diapers, milk, all the things you needed?

[Vicky Wynn]

So it's funny because you definitely don't have diapers. You have like a piece of cloth or two and you learn very quickly how to go to the bathroom. That's like actually a benefit of not having diapers. Right? You just gotta figure it out. And so that's what we did, island style.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh, my gosh. And food was food and water available.

[Vicky Wynn]

Food was basic, very basic rations. They had Rice and cabbage. And once in a while, you would try to buy some fish from the Malaysian fishermen, and that would be like, a real delicacy to get some protein once every couple of weeks or once a week.

[Hoda Kotb]

Gosh. So the goal is to go somewhere else, obviously. So how does that even happen? How can anyone get out of that refugee camp?

[Vicky Wynn]

So my dad says they did have some offers to go to other countries, and they could have gotten off the island sooner to go, like, to go to Canada or Australia. But my dad had read so much, and he had listened to so much on the radio, and he just had in his mind, we have to wait for America. America is the best. It's the land of opportunity. So my family was like, all right, if he says, wait, we wait. My mom writes a letter in the meantime to Holt International and says, dear Holt.

[Hoda Kotb]

So that's the adoption agency your mom worked for in Vietnam?

[Vicky Wynn]

In Vietnam years before, yeah. Never thinking that that might be a lifeline to the U.S. okay. Dear Holt, we're refugees in Malaysia. We need a sponsor family to the U.S. can anyone help us?

[Hoda Kotb]

So that way, put a stamp on.

[Vicky Wynn]

It and just sent it and sent it.

[Vicki Wynn]

And you know.

[Vicky Wynn]

You know how long mail takes? Like, forever. International mail. Weeks later, it gets to a little office in Oregon, Eugene, Oregon. And Whannell Ware, who works for Holt International, opens the letter in the mailroom, reads it, and says, of course we have to help this family. She goes running down the hall to the director of the whole adoption outfit and says, this family needs to come here. What are we doing? How are we gonna make it happen? So they all mobilize. Dawn and Whannell wear.

[Vicki Wynn]

This woman is amazing.

[Vicky Wynn]

Dean and Winel. Incredible. You met her, Hoda, when I brought her to the Today Show. That woman and her husband with the little dog. That's the wares.

[Hoda Kotb]

Okay, so the wares know something.

[Vicki Wynn]

So they mobilize.

[Hoda Kotb]

And then what happened?

[Vicky Wynn]

Everybody finds an apartment, people gather clothes from Goodwill.

[Vicki Wynn]

Wait, so you flew?

[Hoda Kotb]

How did you get from where you were to.

[Vicky Wynn]

So once the paperwork was all done and approved that, yes, indeed, they will go to Eugene, Oregon. People will be there to help them get started, and they will be responsible. As we saw with Afghanistan, right, there were these sponsor circles, and Americans stepped up and said, we will make sure and we will be responsible for these refugees who come here to make sure they get in school, that they get jobs. We got it. So Don and Wennell Ware were like, we got it.

[Hoda Kotb]

So your parents both spoke English at the time?

[Vicky Wynn]

They did, because they had worked with American companies, they spoke some English and.

[Hoda Kotb]

Actually, what about you?

[Vicky Wynn]

I was almost 2 when we got to the US and I had my first real birthday party at the adoption agency.

[Hoda Kotb]

So you guys get there to this place that you'd never before. Eugene, Oregon. What do your parents say that felt like to be arriving in this place that's going to be home?

[Vicky Wynn]

It was cold and it was rainy, and it was so different from tropical Vietnam. They flew on a plane first to Travis Air Force Base in California. And they told me the first meal they ever had, they'll never forget, it was fried chicken. You know, on a military base, it was the greatest thing. And they're like, do you think we can get seconds? I mean, after eating rice and cabbage for like 10 months, you know, fried chicken tastes amazing. They got coats. I mean, it was probably like 60 degrees. It was, you know, nice California weather, but for them it was the coldest day ever been.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah.

[Vicky Wynn]

So then from there they went to Eugene, and it was just incredibly different. First of all, everybody looks different. There's no Asian people there. Right. You know, the wares were like redheaded white people. And my parents are just kind of adjusting. They both went to the community college right away. So they enroll in the community college. My dad is studying welding. My mom is working on her English and also working at the adoption agency. My uncle's one is still in high school, so he enrolls at the local high school. And then I'm just being babysat by various people, just kind of living my best life at two, you know, getting to celebrate with like a Mickey Mouse cake that someone baked for me. And I was just a little kid, so going back and listening to my parents talk about what they remember and how kind everybody was getting used to, like the food, the climate, the clothing, the apartment just blew their mind. They couldn't believe they had an apartment with a 9 inch television and a stove and. And everybody had like a proper. Like there were bedrooms. You know, there was like stairs that they could go up. Like, downstairs was the kitchen and like the living room and upstairs were bedrooms. It was just appreciating everything.

[Hoda Kotb]

Everything.

[Vicky Wynn]

Yes.

[Hoda Kotb]

Wow. Okay. So now it starts to become life a little bit. You've got to figure out what things are like. So what was happening there? So you would eventually go to school in Eugene? Is that what happened?

[Vicky Wynn]

I actually started kindergarten in Reno, Nevada, and it was because my parents left Eugene after a really horrific incident. So you remember, but I talk about it in the book. So my uncle, my older Uncle. Uncle Tam was there and he was like a really good looking. Think like Andy Gibb from the Bee Gees with the hair, but he's Asian. He's got like the jawline and the cheekbones. So he's in his 20s, in the 80s, in Oregon, hanging out, meeting American girls, just finding his people. Because eventually there were some other refugees who came over, so they were finding their way. One night he was at a party, mixed company, and got into an argument with someone at the party, and the guy pulled out a knife and stabbed my uncle to death.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh, my gosh.

[Vicky Wynn]

So my parents, obviously, they don't know the justice system. It's a horrific, awful experience to go through. My mom feels guilty because she's like, I brought my little brother here and he's been killed.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh, my gosh.

[Vicky Wynn]

So that incident for them, they didn't even stick around to, like, watch proceedings. They just wanted to get out and start fresh, start new.

[Hoda Kotb]

Did he ever face justice?

[Vicky Wynn]

He went to prison for like two years on a manslaughter. Got out, and it wouldn't be until years later he would marry someone else, have two children. He would kill her in front of the kids.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh, gosh.

[Vicky Wynn]

So years and years and years later, my parents now live in California. I'm, you know, a little tween. And my mom goes back to Oregon to visit her friends. And they're like, did you hear about this guy? He's killed someone else, and now he's on the run, he's a fugitive. And my mom's like, this is horrible. And she thinks, I wanna put together a $10,000 reward. We have to help catch this man. So as she's thinking that my parents would always go from Santa Rosa to San Jose, like to get all their Vietnamese groceries and whatever, and they would just pick a restaurant in San Jose, a Vietnamese restaurant and eat and whatever. So we're all sitting in the restaurant, and I must have been like 10 or 11 at the time. And my parents are about to give their order to the waiter, and they look up and it's the guy, it's the killer looking them in the eye. And my mom looks down at my dad. They lock eyes and they nod. They both remember him, they recognize him. I'm getting chills just telling you about this, because my parents have always believed in fate and a higher power, and things happen for a reason. So they lock eyes, they give their order. They give no indication that anything's wrong. The guy goes back, and my dad immediately goes outside to a payphone to Call police. He calls 911. He's like, there's a fugitive here. He is this person. He had been profiled on America's Most Wanted, by the way.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh, my gosh. This whole thing.

[Vicky Wynn]

So people knew kind of like, about this story that had happened in Oregon. So he flags down an officer, and then they come into the restaurant. They go to the back. They check it all out. Sure enough, it's the guy. He pretends that it's not him. He says he's from California. They pull a notebook out of his pocket, and it has all these Oregon, you know, area codes and phone numbers. And they're like, you know, this doesn't add up. He had some sort of tattoo. They knew it was him. So long story short, years later, my uncle's killer, who then goes on to kill again, becomes a fugitive. Somehow, randomly, my parents encounter him. He wasn't a server. He was actually supposed to work in the back at that restaurant. He had just started that job. The person who normally is the server called in sick that day.

[Hoda Kotb]

So that's.

[Vicky Wynn]

If my parents hadn't chose that restaurant on that day, in that moment, they never would have caught that guy.

[Hoda Kotb]

Did he end up going to jail?

[Vicky Wynn]

Yes. And then America's Most Wanted did a whole thing about that and how he was eventually caught.

[Hoda Kotb]

By the way, this book has so many chapters. The book's called Boat Baby.

[Vicki Wynn]

So many chapters.

[Hoda Kotb]

Each one is almost like its own kind of scary thriller. But at the end, there's always some kind of justice. But let's continue. So you're now adjusting to life in this country? I mean, we were born. My brother, sister and I were born in the States, and we were different in name and how we looked and all that kind of stuff. But my parents were all of the assimilation, you know, generation.

[Vicki Wynn]

Come on, get your Nikes on.

[Vicky Wynn]

Okay.

[Vicki Wynn]

You know, it wasn't about, like, where are we gonna go so we can be with our.

[Vicky Wynn]

It was just like, we're here now.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah. Is that what you guys did?

[Vicky Wynn]

100%. Hoda, I can relate to you so much because I know your parents were fully invested. They wanted you to have a great American childhood. They wanted all the doors to be open to you. And as much as they are proud of being Egyptian, they also understood we're here now. We're gonna make the most of what we have. And we want our kids to be a part of this scene. And I think they taught me a lot by doing that. Not to be ashamed of who I was, but to understand that it helps to adapt to where you are. It helps to see what you can learn from the position that you're in now. Not thinking too much about the past, not worrying too much about the future. Being here in this moment and figuring out what can you do now.

[Hoda Kotb]

When did they tell you everything that had gone on with your journey and getting here? How old were you when they told you the story?

[Vicky Wynn]

I mean, that's the other thing. Never complain, never explain. That's just who our parents are, right? So they're not really interested in reliving the past and telling you all the details. So probably not until I was really like a student in college and in my early 20s. I mean, I learned a lot from just the writing of this book. And you know, my co writer Vicky Bruce was so lovely because she really helped unearth some of these stories. My parents would speak to a stranger very differently than they would speak to me. Like the kinds of things that they might share with someone else aren't the things they would share with someone they view as like their daughter, their baby, someone that they're not trying to burden with some of these hard truths and difficult past experiences. So it was bits and pieces throughout the years. So I'm so glad to be able to put it all into one place for my daughters and for other people who I'm sure they can see their families in our.

[Vicki Wynn]

More to come with Vicki Nguyen. Stay with us.

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[Hoda Kotb]

So you start this life. I'm just fast forwarding to this moment because Vicki is one of the top journalists in bc, and when you think about where you started and your journey to get there and what did your parents want you to do? Most immigrant parents have a plan for sure, right?

[Vicky Wynn]

It's doctor, lawyer, engineer. I have to say, I'm really lucky that my parents were pretty hands off. They were the opposite of tiger parents. They were very much like, you're the expert in American things. You know, we're here, we're doing our job. You have school. That's your job. They trusted the system for all of it.

[Hoda Kotb]

Wow.

[Vicky Wynn]

You know, just say no to drugs. Yep, that was that. Sex ed. They've got health education in school. They'll take care of it.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah.

[Vicky Wynn]

So my parents really relied on the village, so to speak. And I have to say that's part of the book, too. There is such a. I hope it comes across that it is a love letter to America and to the communities that exist in our country today, that people are generous, they are kind. At the heart of every person is you want the same things. You want safety and you want a good life for your children and you want to love your neighbor. And I feel like every step of the way, there were people like me, teachers that popped up in my life, mentors.

[Hoda Kotb]

Something just popped in my head. I hope you don't mind me bringing this up, but when there was all of that horrible Asian hate. I remember you in the studio on one of those days. And the reason I. I mean, I understood it then. I understand it even more right now. When America means so much to you and when you know how welcoming this country is to your family to watch that random Asian hate that was going on. I saw you in a corner. It broke my heart. I walked over to you, I was like, are you okay? You're like, I'm good. I'm good. But that really hit you in a way that was profound. I thought.

[Vicky Wynn]

Yeah. It was the morning after the Atlanta spa shootings, which it's been four years since then. It happened in March, four years ago. And I remember that morning very clearly because I just woke up. The news had broken the night before, and I was 100% not myself. I was coming into the Today show to do Like a fun travel story. And you, the way that you do Hoda, zeroed in on me, and you just knew something was off, and you saw me and you knew that I wasn't okay, even though I kind of, like, gave you the nod, like, I'm fine. And so you kind of, like, told everyone else. Like, you just kind of put a little protective bubble shield over me. You let me just do my thing. And then you kind of, like, gave me a hug. And then I went off, and I just lost it in the bathroom. I was like, just ugly cry. The full thing. I think it was just the weight of. There'd been all these attacks on Asian American elders. There had been so much hate and racism because the. And people were, like, blaming it on anybody who looked Asian. And so it just kind of culminated with this, like, shooting of these women in their place of work. And it just all felt, like, so unfair and awful. And, you know, we were all still going through the pandemic, too. And I was just like. I think I had been bottling it up too much. Like, that's something I'm not great at is, like, all the mental health and addressing. I'm just like, compartment and there. Stuff it down. Compartment and stuff it down. And so you being, like, a safe place, somebody who saw me, who, like, kind of just through your energy gave me the permission to a person and not have to have, like, all the armor and the facade and, like, here. It led to me actually being able to bring more of my whole self to work. You kind of gave me this permission to be like, yes, I am Asian American. And some of these things that hit my community and people who look like my parents affects me in a little bit of a different way. And, like, it's okay for me to cover it. It's okay for me to express it.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah.

[Vicky Wynn]

And actually, that's good. That's why it's great for us to all bring those perspectives to the table, because then we can actually platform and, like, give a voice to people that might not open up in the same way.

[Hoda Kotb]

Well, your parents are. I had the privilege of meeting both your parents, who I love. And whenever I look at them, I remember your story now, and I imagine them as young, scared kids with a baby just hopping on a boat. But I think the way they gave you permission to do what you want, your journey through this media landscape, which, by the way, the road is littered with people who didn't make it in our business, because, I mean, not hard. It's really hard. Sorry. You work Every Christmas and every Thanksgiving through most of your life, most of your, you know, working life in there. And it's a difficult job. And to stay in it, you have to have tenacity and a good attitude.

[Vicky Wynn]

And luck and a lot. A little bit of luck.

[Hoda Kotb]

Tell me about it.

[Vicky Wynn]

And people who actually open doors for you.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah, tell me.

[Vicky Wynn]

I am so grateful to you, Hoda, because you, when you said your family story is really incredible, it kind of planted a seed for me. And when the book opportunity came up, that little seed, like, sprouted a little bit and was like, oh, okay, like maybe it can grow into like a tree. And so it started there. You gotta put in the work for sure. You have to just keep going and believe, like one step at a time. You know, you just kind of don't know where the path is gonna go. But you also have to be super grateful and, like, recognize the people who are there, like talking about you when you're not there or just opening doors for you. And like, then you have to try to do that for someone else. Cause I'm not gonna be able to repay you in the way that you have, like, PA the way for me, but I can maybe be a Hoda for somebody else. So, like, that to me is kind of what this business is about too.

[Hoda Kotb]

Well, the fact that you made it to the network is like an accomplishment in and of itself. And that was. Had nothing to do. I mean, thank you for all these beautiful things, but your path to here, from small market to small market, from grinding and trying and working nose down, get it done. When you speak to journalism students, what do you tell them about how and why you made it from there to here, to the mountaintop.

[Vicky Wynn]

So, yeah, I started out at the bottom, right? I was a one man band huffing and puffin around Orlando, Florida. And people would be like, hey, it's Connie Chong. When they would see me and I'd be like, yeah, hey. I tell students that everybody has such a different path and you really don't know what's going to happen. You can't control so many things, but one thing you definitely can control is you. Your attitude every day, the moment that is now, now, now, and what you say yes to and the kind put into it and how you show up and how you treat the people around you. These things to me are kind of basic. And yet I see all the time people who sort of forget and they're just busy comparing and despairing, like, why did so and so get that? What about that person? What about that Person. I like how, you know, Melromas talks about let them. I totally agree with that. My parents have always kind of been like, you control what you can control. Don't worry about the rest. And then my. My kids say, like, there's a saying in second grade they. They learned, like, do your best and forget the rest. And honestly, I think it sort of boils down to that what's gonna happen is gonna happen, right? You can control your work ethic and how you show up into the scenarios that you are presented with, and then you can't worry too much about the rest. You'll be where you're meant to be.

[Hoda Kotb]

So your parents parented in a certain way. They kind of let you find your own path, but they also obviously were loving you turned out so beautifully. Your mom showed you how to be a mom because you're a mom to your beautiful kids. But what are you taking from their parenting and what are you kind of leaving behind and saying, I don't think I'm gonna do that.

[Vicky Wynn]

It is so interesting because we all have that generational moment with our parents when you're a teenager and, like, it's different than how it was 30 years ago for you, but then you layer on the cultural differences, and I know you can definitely relate. And I think my parents definitely did the best with what they could at the time. But it was not a. Let's talk it out. It was not touchy feely. It was not I love you. It was actions, right? Like, they're making my lunch every single day. They're making sure that I get the material things that help me keep up with whatever the other kids are doing. They're providing for me, and then they're showing me what they have to do to work seven days a week. So I take from that a little bit of benign neglect myself, I think. I think my parents let me figure things out a lot more than parents, I think nowadays do. We're so quick to jump in. Should I send the email to the teacher? Do you want me to talk to your coach? You know, like, should we have Susie over and we can just chat it out? My parents were too busy. They were not back to school night. They were not doing all the things. But then what does that do? That helps you rise to the occasion as a kid. So I try to let my kids sort their things out as much as they can. I do think modeling matters. They know that I'm at home studying. They see me writing a script. They understand that I have to work or that Their dad has to work. So then they apply some of that to their own life. We call them out if they're like, hey, you're not doing the things you need to do around the home. The family contributions. Your room's kind of a mess. But I definitely also try to emphasize to them, you can talk to me like, we are your first line of defense for all the things. And because we're in news, we're hyper aware of all the things. So I talk about sexploitation, social media. Oh, my gosh, Hoda, I'm in it. I'm in it with. They're like, cringing. They're like, mom, nobody's doing that. What are you talking about? It was in the New York Times. People are doing it, and we're gonna talk about it. But I just want them to know, like, we're here. There's nothing you can say that's gonna scare us that we haven't seen before that we're not gonna help you with. But I also expect you to use your brains and make smart choices, because I can't always be there with you. I'm giving you all this information. You're gonna decide what to do with it. And I have high expectations for you.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah, high expectations, I think is so.

[Vicki Wynn]

Important because I think once you expect it, your kid is like.

[Hoda Kotb]

They just rise if you're like, Yeah, I agree. 100. 100. All right. We call this podcast Making Space. Because I always like to know, like, if I can't imagine you have one of these, but you need one a day. That was just for you. You woke up in the morning. Kids are taken care of. Hubby's taken care of. There's not one work commitment. Nothing. You wake up when you want. You do exactly what you want. You go to bed exactly when you want. What would that free blank slate day look like for you?

[Vicky Wynn]

I'm waking up. I'm taking a walk outside, and hopefully it's a very sunny day. I'm with the dog. I'm not listening to music or anything. I'm just trying to soak it in and be with my thoughts. Trying to slow my mind a little, give myself 30 minutes. I'm coming back. I'm making a breakfast burrito.

[Hoda Kotb]

Okay, good.

[Vicky Wynn]

Avocados and eggs and bacon. Nice with coffee. And I'm reading a book.

[Hoda Kotb]

You're reading a book.

[Vicky Wynn]

I love to read. That is something that I feel like I don't have enough time to do because we're reading, like, the newspaper or we're reading Websites. We don't get to read books as much as we'd like to, so I'm in a good book.

[Hoda Kotb]

Are you cozied in the house? Are you?

[Vicky Wynn]

I'm cozied in the house. I've been doing this lately. I have a love hate relationship with. I won't even call it running. I'll call it jogging. Because two of my kids do track and cross country, which is not from me at all. But I try to do it in solidarity with them. And I feel that it gives you just that moment where your brain is working, your body is working, and you're just. You feel so good after. So I'm looking for the after. That whole like. But it's like, you know, a 15 minute run.

[Hoda Kotb]

Because running so hard.

[Vicky Wynn]

And then I'm coming home and I'm looking up a recipe I haven't made before. And I'm cooking like a huge meal for my kids with dessert.

[Hoda Kotb]

I love that.

[Vicky Wynn]

That's like a fun day for me.

[Hoda Kotb]

And when's bedtime?

[Vicky Wynn]

Oh, well, I'm gonna stay up and watch some shows. Cause that's also something I. I watch shows in, like, in 10 minute increments now. So I'm gonna find a show that my husband and I will like to watch or maybe the whole family will watch. One that we really like right now is Running Pointe, produced by Mindy Kaling with Kate Hudson and Brenda Thong.

[Vicki Wynn]

I love that. It's so good.

[Vicky Wynn]

Oh, my God, we love that show so much. Cause it's so wholesome and fun. There's some language.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah, a little bit.

[Vicky Wynn]

But it's like about this woman who takes over her family basketball business.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yeah, I do love that. I think it's cute.

[Vicky Wynn]

I know. I've got two more to go. I got three daughters. It's women's empowerment. And it's funny cause it's Mindy Kaling. So we're gonna watch that show and then we're gonna like out.

[Hoda Kotb]

I love it. All right, guys, I know what you can do. Take Vicki's advice. Get a book. A good book. There's one I've heard. It's called Boat Baby. It's a real good one.

[Vicki Wynn]

Check it out.

[Hoda Kotb]

It's a beautiful book, Vicki. Thank you.

[Vicky Wynn]

Thank you so much, Hoda. Hoda. One thing I'll say is, I forgot to say about the advice to students. In addition to just like, you can't just worry about everything. My one other piece of advice is not to compare myself to others.

[Hoda Kotb]

Oh, that's big.

[Vicky Wynn]

And so I always tell people there's going to be someone younger than you, smarter than you, more pedigreed than. Than you. Yeah, always. There will be.

[Hoda Kotb]

Right.

[Vicky Wynn]

But there will never be someone who's as good at being you.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yes.

[Vicky Wynn]

As you are. So, like, focus on that.

[Hoda Kotb]

Yes.

[Vicky Wynn]

And the rest kind of works itself out. Falls away. If you're working on being the best version of yourself and it's hard, but that's the way forward.

[Hoda Kotb]

That's golden advice, by the way.

[Vicky Wynn]

Forward.

[Hoda Kotb]

That's really good.

[Vicki Wynn]

Hey guys, thank you so much for listening and for coming on this journey with me. If you like what you heard, and I hope that you do, please give Making Space a five star rating and review on Apple Podcasts and make sure.

[Hoda Kotb]

You tell your friends.

[Vicki Wynn]

Follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening right now. Making Space with Hoda Kotb is produced by Allison Berger and Alexa Casabecchia along with Kate Saunders. Our associate audio engineer is Juliana Masterilli. Our audio engineer is Katie Lau. Original music by John Esty. Bryson Barnes is our head of audio production. Missy Dunlop Parsons is our executive producer. Libby Leist is the executive vice president of Today and Lifestyle.

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