← Making Space with Hoda Kotb
Making Space with Hoda Kotb
Walker Hayes on Faith, Fame and “Fancy Like”
00:46:07
Walker Hayes is one of the top selling and streamed artists in country music. Walker spent more than a decade chasing his dream, when a TikTok video with his daughter catapulted him to stardom. His smash hit “Fancy Like” went from the social media platform straight to the music industry, topping every country music sales chart, hitting number one at country radio and earning Walker his first Grammy Award nomination for Best Country song. Beyond his music, Walker is a man rich in family, faith and love. Walker sat down with Hoda Kotb to talk about his journey through sobriety, life as a dad and the inspiration behind his music.
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- [01:24]
Hoda Kotb
Do you ever hold on to a dream, knowing in any moment, just one break could be the well, that's exactly what happened for my next guest today. His success did not come overnight. In fact, it took more than a decade. After years of chasing his dream, it was one video, one TikTok video to be exact, that catapulted him to stardom. And get this, it was his daughter who was behind it all. I'm talking about country music star Walker Hayes, and we're getting fancy like Walker's surprise head. Fancy like went from the social media platform straight to the music industry, topping every country music sales chart and hitting number one at country radio, giving Walker Hayes his first Grammy Award nomination. But the story of Walker Hayes is so much deeper than music. He's a man rich in family, faith and more. The courage and vulnerability he has deep in his core will amaze you. He opens up about his journey through sobriety, love and loss. His story is one that will leave you in awe. There's a reason I couldn't wait to sit down with Walker Hayes. And when you hear his story, I know you'll understand why? I'm Hoda Kotbi. Welcome to my podcast making space. First of all, welcome to my podcast. Let's talk about the season you're in, because I feel like I've known you through a few of your seasons.
- [02:56]
Walker Hayes
Yeah.
- [02:57]
Hoda Kotb
And you are in a season right now where I feel like it's almost this. Like, you're confident, you're putting out good stuff, your family's good. I feel like you're in a good season. But how would you describe kind of this moment in your life?
- [03:13]
Walker Hayes
Oh, shoot. What's funny? Hoda is confident. Is not. That's not how I would describe it.
- [03:19]
Hoda Kotb
How would you.
- [03:20]
Walker Hayes
And I feel like that's my job, you know, is to portray confidence. You know, I think any, you know, the word influencer is weird or, you know, celebrity. If we all investigated all of them, that's what we're doing. We're trying to look confident. So you just. I'm doing a good job. You're crushing it. But I will tell you, we're not. You know, Laney and I are just. We're every day trying to be better parents, because usually, you know, we wake up and try, and then by the evening, we failed. And we're like, sorry, kids, and we're trying again. And then the same with our marriage. You know, I'll just be 100% frank with you. We spent 16, 17 years never fighting about this thing called money, because we didn't have any. And we took for granted that sweet luxury of not having that to argue.
- [04:22]
Hoda Kotb
Wow, that's interesting.
- [04:23]
Walker Hayes
And then now we have money. And I've never been more stressed or control or attempting to control how the future looks where those finances are so interesting. And so we're struggling through those things and trying to learn to do better with that and steward it and use it. And then I have three kids who grew up poor. And honestly, sometimes they're my favorites because they have little expectations from this life, as I feel like we should. And then I have three that grew up famous. And so there's educating both of them and trying to parent both of them. But, yeah, so we're just like everybody. We're just doing our best.
- [05:15]
Hoda Kotb
There is a saying that says there's a certain amount of money that they say, if you make. Let's pretend it's $50,000. If you make $50,000, which is enough to, let's say, pay your bills and take a couple of vacations, those are the happiest. If you make less, you're clearly unhappy because you Can't. You're struggling. If you make more, you're unhappy.
- [05:33]
Walker Hayes
Yeah.
- [05:34]
Hoda Kotb
It's like finding the sweet spot.
- [05:36]
Walker Hayes
I understand this in life.
- [05:38]
Hoda Kotb
So how do you. For the kids who grew up with more, how do you kind of manage that? So that. Cause of course, if they want a bike, you could afford it.
- [05:48]
Walker Hayes
Yeah.
- [05:49]
Hoda Kotb
You know, it's not like you could say to your other kids, if you need to go, earn it.
- [05:52]
Walker Hayes
Right.
- [05:52]
Hoda Kotb
But now they know dad, mom can pay for it, so why wouldn't you? How do you manage that with your kids?
- [05:56]
Walker Hayes
I just do my best, and I don't manage it well. I make little monsters out of them because, you know, as a. As a dad. Okay, let's just take, for instance, like, Locksley wants a bike. I want her to think I'm the hero, you know, selfishly. And that's wrong. That. That does nothing for her. That's not a great. That's not a great way to love Lexley. But it feels so good to give her, you know, and. And I've never had that joy, you know, that. That luxury. And I have to. I have to remember that's why Leila is a very peaceful person, because she can walk through a store and she can take or leave what's in that store. She knows that there's no gratification that's eternal coming from any item in the bike store. But lastly, she feels when you don't give her that bike. And it's because I've given her a bike in the past. She got that shot of just, dad got me the B. And it's just all these beautiful feelings. But again, I might not have been loving her the best by granting her that bicycle.
- [07:03]
Hoda Kotb
Isn't that funny? Yes, because that's the pleasure for you is saying, look what I. Look what I did. I want to take care of you. I want to make you feel good. I think a lot of parents do struggle with that because there are kids who. They're great kids. They just, it's. Their expectations are different. And I sort of feel that with my 2, too. I feel like sometimes they're like, well, why can't we get it?
- [07:27]
Walker Hayes
Yeah, yeah.
- [07:28]
Hoda Kotb
And you go, because we're not getting it Right. And they're okay.
- [07:31]
Walker Hayes
And. Exactly. It's right in that state. By saying that, you really just love them. I mean, you help them because you know, you know what life's like. And one time, this. This awesome supervisor of mine named Mike at a past job, he said the right answer is pretty much 100% always the hardest. And I apply that. I'm not good. I don't. I don't always choose the right answer in life, but when parenting, you know, sometimes I think it is you're really helping your kid by not spoiling, you know, by just being with them. You know, spoil them with your time and your attention and your love. But, you know, material stuff doesn't really. I don't know, it's not the same. It's not as valuable.
- [08:23]
Hoda Kotb
Let's talk about it when it was tough, because, you know, look, you've always dreamed of singing, and a lot of people dream and are sitting in their houses right now somewhere wondering, I wonder what would happen. But the odds. The odds of you making it, the odds of anybody making it are like a million to one.
- [08:39]
Walker Hayes
Totally.
- [08:39]
Hoda Kotb
You know, so somehow you and Laney decided, let's try. Let's roll the dice, let's go for it. When you brought that up to her, did you have children at that point? I can't remember.
- [08:50]
Walker Hayes
No. When you went to Nashville, we were engaged. My dad signed me up for a gig at a bar in Mobile. He was the best dad, and he worked really hard, and he just always was pushing me on stages that I didn't necessarily want to be on. And this was what I thought would be the last time, but talked to a bar manager at a bar named Trudy, and Trudy said, yeah, you can play on Friday night. So I said, dad, I'll play, and if you'll just leave me alone. You know, just stop.
- [09:26]
Hoda Kotb
So you didn't want. You liked playing. You just didn't want it.
- [09:28]
Walker Hayes
Oh, yeah, I love just goofing off, you know, just having fun, being silly for my parents, you know, in the living room. But he said, now you need to do that, you know, in front of people. And I did it. And the gig was bad. I remember Trudy put her. The tray on her arm and started clapping to let everybody know, you know, that I was done. Time to clap. But I loved it. I mean, I loved it. And I was selling. Trying to sell houses at the time and just. Just had gotten my real estate license, but we were engaged. And I called Laney after that gig, and I. I just said, hey, you want to. You want to move to Nashville? I mean, why. You know, why not? Let's roll with it. And Laney was just. She's so adventurous. I mean, she was, of course, you know, and. And it didn't make any sense. But every time I tell that story, I think, man, we were just so naive.
- [10:18]
Hoda Kotb
But she believed for someone to say, I'm gonna trust your gut. We got nothing to support that this could work. But I'm gonna trust you. So, y'all. I mean, you found the girl for sure.
- [10:30]
Walker Hayes
Yeah. Laney's always had this. Just this vision, you know, of, you know, who I am that I've never really understood. You know, she's always gotten a kick out of me. You know, it hasn't been like one of those things where she thought I was funny. And then we got married and it got old. She still laughs at all your face. Everything is funny. Yeah. You know, and she just. I don't know. She's just the best companion in life for me. And I'm really lucky I met her so young.
- [11:03]
Hoda Kotb
Well, when you meet someone young, they go through all of the bumps with you.
- [11:07]
Walker Hayes
Oh, yeah.
- [11:08]
Hoda Kotb
They know your shadows. You know, when you meet someone when you're older and it kind of evolved. They kind of miss that. So Laney was with you through the worst of it? The tough stuff?
- [11:17]
Walker Hayes
Totally.
- [11:18]
Hoda Kotb
The alcoholism, all the things. Was there ever a point where it got so bad that you thought she might leave me or. This is not working, or how.
- [11:27]
Walker Hayes
Yeah. Yeah, there was. There's a night that I. That I remember, I always call it the night we went to Drake's. It's a restaurant called Drake's. And, you know, I started drinking when I was 13, met Laney when I was 17. So we were at Drake's, let's say, when I was 33, 30 before. And so she'd seen it, like you said, known and loved. I mean, that's what I am with Laney. I mean, she just knows it all. And she's still not gone, you know, she's still here. And so this. This one night, you know, we were at the phase of life where we would leave our kids but take the. The infant with us, because, you know, Lanny breastfed all her babies. And so they had. You know, they were the attachment, you know, and so that we were in our Honda and in the back, you know, was. It was probably Loxley or. Let's see, maybe. Maybe Gooey. I can't remember. But we were at Drake's, and Laney did. What she did a lot of times was. Let's talk about it, you know, and she was not never. She was never naggy. My wife was never rude about my alcoholism. It actually was very invitational. When she would invite me to talk about it. It would. Forced me to get closer and closer to just. It's almost like Every time she approached me, it gave me permission to admit that I had a problem, not to dig my heels in and say, no, no, no, I don't have a problem. But this. This was something I couldn't overcome. You know, at this point, I would admit to her and say, lainey, I mean, I know that I have a problem, but I can't. And I don't think, honestly, I was like, I don't think you would love, like, if you knew me sober. I don't know. I don't know what you would do. Yeah, I don't know what I would do. And, you know, I knew I had actually seen in our Google history that she had been looking up rehabs. And so I knew it was coming to her, asking me to check myself in. And then. And then I also just felt like she was going to have to leave, you know, and it was. And again, I'm not protecting, you know, my reputation or anything from them, but, you know, you know, she. It wasn't dangerous. I mean, I was. I was a happy, functional drunk, but it was. It. She couldn't do it, you know, much longer. And that was what happened at Drake's. We got in the arg, you know, the Invitational. Let's talk about it. Kind of got into a frustrated argument of, I don't want to talk about this anymore. You know, I was tired. I was tired of any situation where drinking was happening, having to have this conversation. And she was, too, you know, and she had every right to continually approach me about this, because one is, I drove all the time, you know, drunk. I lit. You know, I basically passed out on the couch every night with a drink, and she would take it out of my hand before I spilled it.
- [14:46]
Hoda Kotb
Why do you think she stayed?
- [14:48]
Walker Hayes
I mean, I don't know. I mean, why does anybody stay with anybody? You know? And I think, you know, I hate to speak for Lani, but I think she would say that, too. You know, that was my. That was my demon. I mean, once you live in a house for 10 years with anybody, you have a lot of reasons to leave. I always, you know, I think that's why community is so tough, is the more, you know, somebody, the less you like them. I mean, that's it. And, you know, but then that's when a relationship gets seasoned and gets real, is, you know. You know, they're things, you know, that.
- [15:26]
Hoda Kotb
So what was. So if I can see from your perspective and Lainey's, like, your kids might have been in danger with driving. There were things, practical things, like, oh, like we gotta fix this immediately. So what was the thing that made.
- [15:41]
Walker Hayes
You say, I'll get sober, man? That's such a great question. And I mean, I wish, I pray that, you know, I wish the Lord would have given me the answer just to help somebody. But it wasn't of my doing. It wasn't any steps. It wasn't even a real, this monumental thought out decision. I just woke up on a Saturday and I just felt like I was going to die if I did it again. And I'm not very attentive to my, my health. I hate the doctor. I don't, you know, if my elbow hurts, I'm like, it'll heal in a couple years, we're good. So that it, I just woke up on a Saturday, I was exhausted. We were at exhausting phase of life. We had six kids. I was working at Costco, clocking in at 4am wow. Playing shows, doing it all again, but also just doing it just with a, with a buzz, you know, continually. And that buzz took a lot to sustain. I mean, you know, about, you know, by that many years. You know, it's like I had to consume a really, really large amount of alcohol each day. And I, I, I just think my body, it's almost like I detested it. It's like I went from living off of it to woke up one day and just thought, I'm really going to not wake up.
- [17:14]
Hoda Kotb
Wow.
- [17:14]
Walker Hayes
And so I, out of just sickness, I didn't drink for one day. And one day turned into two or three. And you know, for somebody who's drank that many consecutive days, three days without a drink is miraculous. I mean that's like 10 years, you know, in sober life for the first time. And it began to, turned from like kind of painful to quit, to feel good. Sobriety felt good. I felt youthful and young. And you know, honestly there was a phase where I was drunk on sobriety. You know, psychologically you're just like, I'm gonna eat healthy, I'm start exercising.
- [18:01]
Hoda Kotb
Everything kind of changed.
- [18:02]
Walker Hayes
Life is good, you know, and then you're hit with reality. You know, the holidays come, you're like, ah, that hits a nerve. No, I want to drink, you know, but yeah, you know, a week turned into a month, a month turned into a year. And then this, this October, you know, I celebrated nine years and I, and again it was all, God, I don't, there was nothing, there was nothing I did, I didn't do anything. Right. I don't do the AA meetings. Right. I don't you know, there are nights when I, you know, when the advice of a friend is all I've got to hang on to and I make it another night. And so, you know, and that. And I'm pretty sure that's probably how it'll be.
- [18:46]
Hoda Kotb
More ahead with Walker Hayes Stay with us.
- [18:59]
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- [19:27]
Walker Hayes
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- [20:31]
Walker Hayes
A roll that feels like paradise and always at a heavenly prize.
- [20:36]
Hoda Kotb
Angel Soft Angel Soft Soft and strong.
- [20:40]
Walker Hayes
So it's simple. Pick up a pack today. Angel Soft Soft and strong Simple.
- [20:51]
Hoda Kotb
So once you got clean and you felt it, at what point did your music career go? This is all now clicking. Yeah, I'm in the right space. My music career. How did it all come together?
- [21:01]
Walker Hayes
Oh, I mean it Was crazy. I'll give you the high point. So literally, this was wild. I don't know what I feel like I should say it was serendipitous, but I don't even know what that word means. It just sounds right. What is serendipitous? Serendipitous mean?
- [21:14]
Hoda Kotb
It means like, kind of like the uncanny timing of the law, serendipity.
- [21:18]
Walker Hayes
And, you know, I quit drinking in October. In November, one of my best friends and mentors, Shane McInally, called and said, I'd like to sign you. I'd like to, you know, I'd like to record a record on you. So that was tearful. I mean, just kind of miraculous. He and I had met at a smoothie king. I tapped his shoulder. He gave me his email address. So we had become friends. He's so kind. And he. He. He took me under his wing. So I was able to quit Costco in the following January, so a few months later and began working on my music career. Now things did happen for me, small things. We had a song called you'd Broke up with Me that really shocked the world. It was a top 10 on country radio, and that was magnificent and different.
- [22:07]
Hoda Kotb
Is that your first one?
- [22:08]
Walker Hayes
Yeah, that was the first pop. And it just. It defied the odds. I love that song. It's a jam. I still am like, man, I'm so glad that I have this song on this thing every night. And it's fun, it's sassy, right? And. And then, you know, sadly, I know you know this, but we lost our seventh child. And so that really, I don't know, we were just kind of drinking life from a fire hose, you know, we go from absolutely broke, you know, new, new newfound sobriety. Those are just beautiful things, you know, the tough, the awesome. And then Shane signs me, and then, bam, this hit comes out of nowhere. And it's like we showed, you know, the. Probably the ultimate hurt of our life, you know, that Laney and I would. Would ever embrace together and grieve together was the loss of Oakley. And that just put a halt on all of it. You know, it can. That. That. That loss. She was a stillborn, and actually she was. She died the day I was supposed to sing on the CMT Awards. The first, first televised. So you can just imagine just the bookends of emotions, you know, and it really. Humble. Humbles. You just. It just makes you see kind of how inadequate I was. Just. I don't know, it just really brings you to your knees and, you know, lanny grieved this way, and I grieve that way. And it really stopped everything. It stopped. It obviously stopped musical momentum, came off the road, lost a lot of work. I felt stupid, you know? What do you mean? It's just. I'm sure you've. You felt like this as a. As a public personality, but to really, really be crushed and to see how much life can hurt, but then to wake up and be. And be positive or entertaining in any way, you feel foolish. There was just something about losing a kid and then getting up on stage singing, you broke up with me. Dancing around. It just felt like, what am I doing?
- [24:21]
Hoda Kotb
What am I doing?
- [24:21]
Walker Hayes
What am I doing in this life? Why did I think this mattered so much? And also, I think losing Oakley, one of the reasons it made me so just fiercely angry and mad was because I had to look in the mirror and go. I was almost. I was almost just gonna go watch my kid be born, like, oh, another kid's born. And then go entertain and then fly away and. And leave my wife and kid, you know, so it really. There's a guy in that mirror that's being reflected when that bomb went off, you know, and that hurt. Hurt. And I didn't like who it was showing. And so that, that really made me mad, you know, it was sad. But when I get sad, I get mad because I don't like the way sadness feels.
- [25:09]
Hoda Kotb
Yeah, yeah.
- [25:09]
Walker Hayes
I know we're getting all psychological here, but, yeah, that, that really put a halt on things and. And again, praise God, I mean, I was surrounded by men. Yeah, I could cry on the phone with, you know, I cried with my friend Craig. I screamed on the phone and cried with my friend Rob. The first song I wrote again was with Shane, and we almost beat each other up. I mean, just. Just because the emotions in that room, it was just. So what was the song you wrote? We believe it or not, we wrote 90s country. And the reason I wrote 90s country is I just had to write it. This sound, this kind of. I, I hope this doesn't demean the song, but I just had to write something that didn't mean anything. Just write, just rhyme the words, write the song. And Shane said to get through this, you need a treat. Writing like a 9 to 5. Just do it for your family. You gotta work right, so don't stop, you know. And so that rite was really pivotal for me. This song is, you know, what it, what it was. It's not like some deep song, but that song will always have a. That's something special to me.
- [26:26]
Hoda Kotb
When you talk about your friends, I think that, you know, I love the saying you're the five. You're the sum total of the five people you spend the most time with. So choose wisely. I mean, your kids are homeschooled, so you and your family, that's your circle.
- [26:38]
Walker Hayes
Yeah.
- [26:39]
Hoda Kotb
Bar none. But you also have this circle of friends, and Craig is one of them.
- [26:43]
Walker Hayes
I mean, just his name gives me goosebumps.
- [26:47]
Hoda Kotb
There's sometimes friends save you.
- [26:49]
Walker Hayes
Yeah.
- [26:50]
Hoda Kotb
And some people are lucky enough to have a friend like Craig. You have him?
- [26:54]
Walker Hayes
Yeah.
- [26:55]
Hoda Kotb
Tell me how he saved you.
- [26:57]
Walker Hayes
Oh, man. So Craig. Where do I start with Craig? Craig. I mean, he's my best friend, and he's not. You know, upon meeting us, what, 12, 10 years ago when we met each other, you probably wouldn't have match made us if we were on a. An online friendship site. They wouldn't have been like, hey, Craig and Walker, you know, we'll be friends. I was an alcoholic. We were pregnant with our sixth kid. You know, working at Costco. No one had any business like wanting to associate with me. I had no advice to give you. I had no clout I could add to you. You know, knowing me didn't help you. And then there's Craig, who's starting a new church in Nashville. And I'm an atheist at the time. Don't want to. I'm so sick of anything, you know, religious related. Just the name Jesus made me just feel weird, you know, I just heard it so many times, and I associated so many bad things with it. But Laney asked me to go to this church with her called Redeeming Grace. And it just so happens that was a church Craig and his wife Laura were partners in starting. And Laney drags me to this church. You know, short story is, I walk in absolutely hammered, walk up, and Craig beelines for me. And he's just so excited. And I've heard him tell this story. He's just so excited that we came. You know, he was telling me that the odds. When you're a pastor, he was like, you invite 20, and if one person comes, it's. It's awesome, you know, and so he. He claims that's why he was so jacked. You know, when a family of six walks in, you know, six kids and me and Lanie, and there wasn't 30 people in this church, so we were a big chunk of this church, you know. So when I walked in, Craig beelines for me, shakes the. Just shakes my hand so hard and just a huge eyes. Smile. You've seen him and biggest grin on the planet. And he says, I'm just so glad you're here. I am so. And he. I'm like, bro, I get it. You know, And I'm laughing, you know, I'm jolly. You know, I was a jolly drunk. I wasn't really a mad. And so I'm like, okay, you know, we're in church, you've got greeters. You know, we got the greeter guy. And. But over the next few years, I mean, I'm, you know, I hope I'm getting better at this, but I'm super good at controlling the narrative of a relationship. Like, don't get too close. You know, I don't want you to get. I want to stay here. You know, I want you. I want you to think what I want you to think about me. And if I let you closer, it's going to get. Somebody's going to get hurt here. And so, you know, I did. I played that game. I played that game with Craig especially because I had a little chip on my shoulder that he was a believer and I wasn't. And I always was like, when's it coming? When's bro going to share the gospel with me? But he never did. And there were nights, you know, over the next two or three years where he would feed us. Him and his wife would come to the nastiest places and hear me sing. They would come to our house, which was embarrassing. I mean, we had holes in Sheetrock furniture, same furniture we had, you know, in college and stuff, and, and just, you know, diapers there, you know, just. We were just a mess. And they jumped in, you know, with no look of, of like, ooh, germ. You know, they just jumped in our mess and did life with us so much that I will never forget driving from their house one day and saying. And looking at Lainey, you know, Lainey was probably laughing at something I was doing. And I just was like, hey, why do they love us so much? You know? You know, and I really asked that question out of genuine. No, no, not cynical, not joking. Why. And, and, and so, you know, but, but that's, that's how Craig and his wife Laura loved us. And Craig shows up. You know, we wrote a book called glad you'd're here. And honestly, the nucleus of that book is the, the vehicle that, that, that Craig gave us. And he knew that we were in one car, you know, riding with not enough seat belts, and he shows up at one of my son's baseball games, and he has the keys in the title to his own minivan. And he gives me that, you know, and he basically forces it on me. I wasn't even happy to accept it.
- [31:26]
Hoda Kotb
Right, right.
- [31:27]
Walker Hayes
I was embarrassed that I needed a handout, you know, that I needed help. Right, right.
- [31:32]
Hoda Kotb
But Craig, he knew you needed.
- [31:34]
Walker Hayes
He did. He knew I needed it. And he said, me and my wife Laura, have prayed about it, and we have decided, you know, that we would love for you to have this van, you know, so your kids can be safe.
- [31:45]
Hoda Kotb
What did you feel like in that moment?
- [31:47]
Walker Hayes
Confused. Craig was just. The way he and his family loved us. I don't know if I'd ever experienced in my life. And, I mean, that's all. And again, confused. A little angry, you know, it's not like I was excited that Mr. Believer man, right. Was giving you something, was helping me out, you know? But God has a funny way, you know, of working on people.
- [32:18]
Hoda Kotb
He does.
- [32:19]
Walker Hayes
He does. And what a way, you know, again, what a. What a remarkable story, you know, for somebody who would look at believers a certain way, and then for God to use one to bring me nearer to him. I mean, it's kind of.
- [32:38]
Hoda Kotb
It's the way life works, man.
- [32:39]
Walker Hayes
It's insane.
- [32:40]
Hoda Kotb
So tell me. So you get through this very dark period, and all of a sudden, I'm gonna fast forward to Fancy, like, because Fancy, like, hit like a rocket ship. I mean, that song we dance to everybody, that's the song into this game.
- [32:59]
Walker Hayes
The jam.
- [32:59]
Hoda Kotb
It's the jam.
- [33:00]
Walker Hayes
Y.
- [33:01]
Hoda Kotb
When you hit it like that with a song, I remember watching you perform it. I was home on tv.
- [33:07]
Walker Hayes
I was watching.
- [33:07]
Hoda Kotb
I can't remember what the thing was. And I was like Walker singing it there. It was cool as could be. But to know that you were on top of a wave and how that felt. What was it like at that stage in your life?
- [33:20]
Walker Hayes
Honestly, I never really had a second to really even think about what was going on. I lost my dad again, the guy who got me the gig. Biggest fan, honestly, I ever had. And he died in March. And then we put out Fancy Lichen in April, and my daughter and I did. Me and Leela, you know, we. We were always doing tiktoks. And. And honestly, the reason I did TikTok is because with each of my kids, I. I just dive headfirst into something. Right. Do. And dancing was Leila's thing. So with every song, you know, I was releasing, we did a TikTok. Now we might get a thousand views. Hoda it was like, you know, nothing. We were new to TikTok. I was kind of figuring out the social platform. But when we did that dance, I mean, a million that night, I honestly, I was a little bit afraid. I had never had that many eyes on something I had done. And so there's this fear of. Honestly, I was like, did we break something? Did I, did I do something wrong? That is driving track, you know, how.
- [34:29]
Hoda Kotb
Is this, how is this happening?
- [34:31]
Walker Hayes
But, yeah, the, you know, I think the world, oddly enough, you know, I've written a thousand and something songs, so I, I, I, I still listen to Fancy, like. And I agree with anyone that loves it. There's something special about it. But I don't understand really what happened.
- [34:47]
Hoda Kotb
What do you think? And, and you seem to have to hold this often, but you talked about your dad passing and then this thing launches or a child dying and then you have to sing. Yeah, like, what did you lose when your dad passed?
- [35:02]
Walker Hayes
Just that, I think, you know, there's a lot of things that you don't, you can't really know till they happen to you. Like having a kid. I can't explain it to somebody. It's terrible, but it's awesome. Yeah, it's torturous, but it's the best thing I've ever done, you know? And I think losing my dad, I know I think about my mom listening to this when I say these things, and I hope she isn't sad to hear this, but I think my dad and I, like a lot of parents and kids, you're not prepared for someone to die. It's a new experience. And if you haven't lost anybody, you don't know what to do. You do your best and you try to take care of them and be patient, and then you do the business of death. And when I lost my dad, I think I became aware of some things I wish I had done with my dad or said with my dad. Or resolved. Like what? Maybe some sorrys, you know, I'm sorry. Or just a, just a level of appreciation. It's. How do I say it? As simple as I can. When I lost my dad, I realized how much I loved him. And why it takes someone dying for you to realize that. I don't know. And like with Oakley, when you lose something you love, someone you love, you really have a front row center view of what matters in this life. And you wish you could stay there because you'll forget fast. But at that moment, I didn't care about how Fancy that, you know, when you lose your dad, it made me want to go hang with my kids, you know, But. But, but, yeah, I think. I think when you lose someone that you have unresolved stuff with, it's almost harder than losing someone that you have a wonderful relationship with. And so I think that was tough for me. And then. And then again, you know, while the world is doing this dance, I spent a lot of that year one just trying to process fame, what it was doing to me, what it was exposing about me. You know, what it. It makes you grip things tight. You know, there's this power that really makes you feel gross. And I'll explain that in one second. But I did spend a lot of that year just going, I wish my dad was here. And so that. That stung a lot in the midst of probably the pinnacle of the thing that I was chasing the dream. But I'll tell you what fame does to you, that's really nasty, is when you walk into a restaurant and everybody recognizes you. You're tired and you're like, give me a break. Can I just eat? Just let me eat with my wife. And then when you walk in a restaurant and nobody recognizes. Recognizes you, you go, hey, don't you guys know who I am? What's the deal? I know. And that's gross. That is a nasty. That's a nasty human thing that. Somebody told me a quote one day, and they said, God is the only thing made to receive glory. And I really did learn that and am always learning that as a. As a entertainer, you know, a songwriter is. We're just not made to do great things with that attentive. You know, it's a battle each and every day. But, yeah, I love my dad very much. And, you know, mom, if you're listening, I really do. You know, my dad, I had the best dad in the world. There's just some things I'll. I'll be excited to see him again and say.
- [39:03]
Hoda Kotb
So when you think about yourself as a father, who was your greatest teacher? Was your father the one who you said, I'll be like him, or did you have other people in your life who you're like? I like as far as fatherhood teaching you fatherhood?
- [39:18]
Walker Hayes
Yeah. You know, I was kind of an overcorrector from my father. You know, he was a workaholic. I see that in me. I mean, it's in my DNA. And so I. By the grace of God and God alone, Hoda, I have. I'll probably get a little emotional saying this, but I know I've spent More time with my children than any father I know. And that's not. That's not a. I'm not saying yay me.
- [39:53]
Hoda Kotb
No.
- [39:53]
Walker Hayes
I have been given that opportunity and I have a wife who encourages me to do that, and I truly do. I mean, I work out three or four days a week with my 17 year old son. I coach my son Baylor and Chapel's basketball team. I'm Rocket League gold. I'm trying to get up to champ, you know, where I can compete with my sons. But I play it with them every night. I mean, I get to dance with Lela. You know, we're not doing the family on the road thing next year. We're a little tired. But I've had the last three years with my family on a bus. So, you know, let's say I have 100 dates a year. They just ride with me, you know, with the dogs. And so that's a solid year that I've gotten to be with my family.
- [40:43]
Hoda Kotb
Yeah. It's funny, when I was mentioning here that I was going to leave the Today show, one of our producers came upstairs in the makeup room and she said, I want to say something to you. She goes, my mother walking me to school every day was the best memory I've ever had. And all I want to do is walk my kids to school. And it's the simplest thing with a cup of coffee, walking your kids to school. But all the little things, like you get to see growth. You're right. Most dads or parents, for the most part, get to see what you've built and experienced. So the kids are homeschooled. They're with you guys. Do they have other friends or is it just all of us? You have so many kids.
- [41:23]
Walker Hayes
We call it friend for a day. We say, go make a friend for a day because we're in and out. So we definitely invite friends. They do a lot of FaceTiming things with friends around the world. But yeah, they're homeschooled, so they don't have that school community.
- [41:41]
Hoda Kotb
How does Laney know how to do all that homeschooling?
- [41:44]
Walker Hayes
I mean, I swear if she was here, she would say she doesn't, but she absolutely does. She's incredible. She's so patient with them. It's a combination of curriculums. At some point they can. One thing I've loved about homeschool is that they do it on their own after a certain point. That doesn't mean they don't need help from Laney, but they have to take the initiative. We don't say hey, wake up at 8 and do school. They can start at midnight if they want, but they get those consequences if everybody else is playing Rocket League and Chapel hadn't finished his math. He doesn't even ask. You know, he just has to do his math. So that's, that's been a good lesson. But yeah, it's an interesting household. You know we have a interesting life and but yeah, you know you go going back to your parenting question, you know that was a big over correction of mine was when my kids are here, you know I want to be with them, you know, as much as I can.
- [42:45]
Hoda Kotb
Love it more with Walker Hayes when we come back.
- [42:56]
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- [43:17]
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- [43:27]
Walker Hayes
I won't let my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis symptoms define me Emerge as.
- [43:31]
Tremphya Representative
You in two clinical studies, Trimfaia guselkumab taken by injection provided 90% clear skin at 16 weeks in 7 out of 10 adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. In a study, nearly 7 out of 10 patients with 90% clearer skin at 16 weeks were still clearer at 5 years. At 1 year and thereafter, patients and healthcare providers knew that Tremphya was being used. This may have increased results. Results may vary.
- [43:54]
Serious allergic reactions may occur. Tremphya may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. Before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms of infection, including fever, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cough. Tell your doctor if you had a vaccine or plan to emerge.
- [44:13]
As you learn more about Tremphya, including important safety information@tremphya.com or call 1-877-578-3527. See our ad in Food and Wine magazine. For patients prescribed Tremphya, cost support may be available.
- [44:28]
Walker Hayes
A role that feels like paradise and always at a heavenly prize Angel Soft.
- [44:35]
Hoda Kotb
Angel Soft, Soft and strong.
- [44:37]
Walker Hayes
So it's simple. Pick up a pack today Angel. Soft.
- [44:41]
Tremphya Representative
Soft and strong.
- [44:42]
Hoda Kotb
Simple. You're at such a cool place in your life. Do you think about 10 years down the road, or are you a guy who's about here and now?
- [44:57]
Walker Hayes
I mean, I imagine, you know, but I mean, if just telling you my story, why would I spend any time other than just imagining? Because there's really nothing I can plant, you know, I never would have planned that story. I just told you I couldn't have written it. And I have a large imagination. I feel like God has given me the gift to write. But wouldn't that be the weirdest song if I just wrote everything that. You wouldn't believe any of it.
- [45:26]
Hoda Kotb
You wouldn't believe any of it. I know.
- [45:28]
Walker Hayes
I know. And so, you know, that's what amazes me about all of what I've been talking to you about, is every day I tell you these stories. In retrospect, I reminisce and I tell you them so flippantly, like, oh, yeah, we just lost a kid one day. Oh, yeah. Just me and my daughter did a dance. Imagine how different the moment was before any of those things. The sad, the loss, the. The happy, the joyful, the Grammys, the today's show. You know, I didn't grow up. I didn't grow up going, I'm going to meet Hoda one day, you know, and that's. You know, there was a moment where I was working at Costco and I came up here to audition for a Broadway play, you know, and imagine how different life could have gone. Yeah. And it's just. I don't know, you know, I think about those seconds right before some of these things happen. And that's one of the most beautiful things that I love about the music business, or just life in general, is a day can change your path. You just have no idea.
- [46:35]
Hoda Kotb
No idea, no idea, no idea.
- [46:37]
Walker Hayes
But then you can walk your kid to school, and if tomorrow looks just like that, I'm good.
- [46:43]
Hoda Kotb
Well, you know, it's funny. You really do kind of underscore this kind of theory, which is like, there are lots of exclamation marks in your life. There are gonna be, it's a girl. She said, yes. You got the granny.
- [46:58]
Walker Hayes
We were riding a banger, right now you're on top.
- [47:00]
Hoda Kotb
And then there's also the days where everything is not great. She passed away. She said, no, the divorce went through. But most days are Wednesday. Oh, man, they're not any of those goosebumps. They're just Wednesday. And you seem to be pretty happy on Wednesday. Which is really it. If you can be happy on a regular day.
- [47:24]
Walker Hayes
Exactly.
- [47:24]
Hoda Kotb
And it doesn't have to be high, doesn't have to be low. It's just Wednesday, you know, it seems like that's what you're saying. Every time I hear you, you're like, it's all about, I get to see my kids. I get to do these things. You have big days, and you've had terrible days.
- [47:38]
Walker Hayes
Yeah, yeah. It's given. All of them, have given me a lot of gratitude. And I still struggle on Wednesdays. I still wake up sometimes and go, man, I wish it was a fancy, like day. That'd be fun. You. But, you know, I have a. I have a really. Like you said, you know those five, the friends you got?
- [47:57]
Hoda Kotb
You got it.
- [47:58]
Walker Hayes
I got them.
- [47:58]
Hoda Kotb
You have. You have, like, a foundation that's really solid.
- [48:01]
Walker Hayes
I do.
- [48:02]
Hoda Kotb
So this. This podcast is called Making Space. So if you had a day where you had not a single responsibility, you had no one you had to see. It was your day. You could wake up when you wanted and you could do whatever you felt like, whatever was, you know, to take care of you, what would you. How would that day unfold? How do you imagine a day with no responsibilities, no travel, no nothing, man.
- [48:30]
Walker Hayes
I mean, I think you. I mean, weirdly, you. You truly answered that it would. It would be a Wednesday. I mean, I wake up at the same time as Lani because we rarely get to do that, let our dogs out. Puckett, Noly, and Piper.
- [48:52]
Hoda Kotb
Can't believe we have all those dogs.
- [48:53]
Walker Hayes
And all those kids. They're amazing. I'll let them out and watch them and. And then Loxley would probably be the first to wake up, and I would just sit and hold her and hug her, and she likes to make coffee, so I might wait and let her do it. She likes to run the Keurig. And I would. I would just hang with Lanny and watch the kids wake up and just do nothing. I don't know. Play chess with Chapel. I love to play chess with Chapel. He's so good. He beats me most of the time, but I'm getting better. And, yeah, I really would. In our house in Essel Springs where we can see the lake. But, yeah, I would just. I mean, that. That sounds amazing. That. Exactly. And. And. And just. Just stare at them, you know, because. Because, yeah, that's what I would do. You know, people always are like, what would you do if you know you're gonna die you tomorrow? And that's what I do. Just exactly. I wouldn't do anything else. Just. Just embrace that. I got, you know, I got to have that. That was my life. Like that was. That's. That was my Wednesday. That was a good, good Wednesday, you know, It's a good one. Yeah.
- [50:05]
Hoda Kotb
I love you, Walker.
- [50:05]
Walker Hayes
I love you back.
- [50:06]
Hoda Kotb
Thank you. Hey guys, thank you so much for listening and for coming on this journey with me. If you like what you heard, and I hope that you do, please give Making Space a five star rating and review on Apple Podcasts and make sure you tell your friends. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you're listening right now. Making Space with Hoda Kotb is produced by Allison Berger and Alexa Casavecchia, along with Brittany Bosner and Kate Saunders. Our associate audio engineer is Juliana Masterilli. Our audio engineer is Katie Lau. Original music by John Estes. Bryson Barnes is our head of audio production. Missy Dunlop Parsons is our executive producer. Libby Least is the executive vice president of Today and Lifestyle.
- [51:02]
Walker Hayes
I won't let my moderate to severe plaque psoriasis symptoms define me emerge as.
- [51:06]
Tremphya Representative
You in two clinical studies, Trimfaia guselkumab taken by injection provided 90% clearer skin at 16 weeks in 7 out of 10 adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. In a study, nearly 7 out of 10 patients with 90% clearer skin at 16 weeks were still clearer at 5 years. At 1 year and thereafter, patients and healthcare providers knew that Tremphya was being used. This may have increased results. Results may vary.
- [51:29]
Serious allergic reactions may occur. Tremphya may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. Before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. Tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms of infection, including fever, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cough. Tell your doctor if you had a.
- [51:46]
Vaccine or plan to emerge as you. Learn more about Tremphya, including important safety information, at tremphya.com or call 1-877-578-3527. See our ad in Food and Wine magazine. For patients prescribed Tremphaya, cost support may be.