#127 - Social Fitness Test Revisited

Summary

Podcast Summary: Man of the Year - Champions of Friendship Episode: #127 - Social Fitness Test Revisited
Release Date: April 15, 2025
Hosts: Matt Ritter and Aaron Karo, Bleav

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Introduction to Social Fitness

In Episode #127, Matt Ritter and Aaron Karo delve deep into the concept of social fitness, a framework they introduced two years prior to assess the strength and quality of one's friendships. Acknowledging the growing "friendship recession" where 15% of men report having no close friends, the hosts aim to provide listeners with actionable insights to enhance their social connections.

Revisiting the Social Fitness Test

Aaron Karo initiates the discussion by recalling the initial Social Fitness Test from Episode 24:

“[00:53] A: So our listeners will know that we are pushing this idea of social fitness. You have physical fitness, you're going to the gym. Mental health, you are going to see a therapist. But let's talk about social fitness, which is...”

Matt Ritter humorously notes the skip of their second annual test:

“[05:28] B: Buddy, I love how you said it's our first annual, but that we also skipped our second annual, and we only...”

They outline the test's methodology, where each friendship category is rated from 1 to 5, with 1 indicating a significant lack and 5 showcasing excellence.

Categories of Social Fitness

1. Bidirectionality

   • Definition: Mutual effort in maintaining friendships, including initiating plans and supporting each other.
   • Discussion: Both hosts rate themselves and reflect on the balance in their friendships.
   • Notable Quote:

     “[07:10] A: So you're gonna give yourself a score.” “[07:22] B: I’ll give myself a four...”

2. Vulnerability

   • Definition: The ability to share one's authentic self, including fears and hopes, without fear of judgment.

   • Discussion: Matt feels proud of his growth in vulnerability, citing a pivotal dinner party as a transformative experience.

   • Notable Quotes:

     “[09:31] B: ...we had this dinner party last year that really locked it in for me...” “[12:31] A: Matt, you practice what you preach yesterday...”

   • Advice: Start by expressing gratitude, such as saying "thank you," to foster deeper connections.

3. Wisdom

   • Definition: Friends who provide thoughtful insights and advice to navigate life's challenges.

   • Discussion: Aaron rates himself highly, emphasizing his role as a mentor, while Matt gives himself a three, seeking more mentorship in his evolving life phases.

   • Notable Quote:

     “[15:12] A: This is one of my best categories. This is an easy five for me...”

   • Advice: Be specific when seeking mentorship and offer value in return, such as sharing relevant articles or insights.

4. Proximity

   • Definition: Physical closeness of friends, facilitating in-person interactions.

   • Discussion: Matt excels in this category with a well-established local friend network. Aaron also rates himself highly but considers extending beyond his immediate block.

   • Notable Quote:

     “[19:39] B: I’m giving myself a five. I’m thriving in my neighborhood...”

   • Advice: Utilize "third places" like coffee shops or gyms to build community and improve proximity scores.

5. Diversity

   • Definition: Variety in the roles friends play in one's life, such as work friends, gym buddies, or close confidants.

   • Discussion: Both hosts rate themselves as four, acknowledging a diverse friend base but recognizing areas for intentional diversification.

   • Notable Quote:

     “[24:30] A: I’m also going to give myself an aspirational four...”

   • Advice: Embrace randomness by participating in varied activities and meeting individuals outside your usual circles.

6. Quantity

   • Definition: The number of friends one has, providing a safety net as life circumstances change.

   • Discussion: Both hosts rate themselves highly, emphasizing the importance of having a substantial friend base while balancing capacity.

   • Notable Quotes:

     “[28:02] B: I’m gonna give myself a five on friendship quantity...” “[30:41] B: Or when, like, last minute. I have free time and I haven’t planned anything. She’s like, you...”

   • Advice: Strive for at least three close friends who live nearby, ensuring you have reliable connections.

Scoring and Insights

At the episode's conclusion, Matt and Aaron tally their scores, both achieving high marks but acknowledging room for growth:

“[32:46] B: All right, so I went down. But I also think two years ago I was being less...” “[33:52] B: Yeah, I think Caro's right. The social inventory is important...”

They emphasize the importance of conducting a social inventory—listing out friends and evaluating the quality of each relationship to identify areas for improvement.

Final Thoughts and Encouragement

The hosts wrap up by encouraging listeners to actively engage in enhancing their social fitness. They highlight that maintaining diverse and meaningful friendships requires intentional effort but yields significant rewards in emotional well-being and personal growth.

Key Takeaways

• Social Fitness is Essential: Just as physical and mental health require attention, so does the quality of your friendships.
• Balanced Relationships: Strive for mutual effort in all friendships to ensure they are sustainable and fulfilling.
• Vulnerability and Wisdom: Being open with friends fosters deeper connections, while having friends who provide wisdom can guide you through life's challenges.
• Proximity and Diversity: Living close to friends makes interactions easier, and having a diverse friend base ensures resilience against life changes.
• Quantity with Quality: A larger network provides a safety net, but it's crucial to balance the number of friends with the capacity to maintain meaningful relationships.

Listener Challenge

Aaron and Matt challenge listeners to score their social fitness and share their results, fostering a community committed to improving friendship quality. They invite listeners to send in their scores and participate in the ongoing conversation about building stronger, more resilient friendships.

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Note: This episode underscores the importance of actively managing and nurturing friendships. By regularly assessing and working on various aspects of social fitness, individuals can combat loneliness and build a supportive, enriching social network.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Man of the Year.

[A]

Man of the Year. Welcome to the number one friendship podcast in the country. I'm Aaron Caro.

[B]

I'm Matt Ritter.

[A]

And Remember, go to manoftheapodcast.com to grab our merch and watch our episodes on YouTube. Matt, a bit of a rant. I feel like parents, and I'm talking about our parents, older parents. We need to teach them how to deliver news in a way that doesn't make you completely panic.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Mom called me a couple of weeks ago, and she goes, so. So your dad's in the hospital. I go, what? I go, what? What's going on? What's happening? She goes, oh, no. His. His cardiologist's office is there. So just a routine checkup. I'm like, why would you lead with that? That makes no sense, you know? Or like, I was. I was at home. I was in Plan View, and my dad, he. He called me and he's like, I got bad news. I'm like, what's the matter? He's like, they had a chicken wings at shop, right? The ones that you like. I'm like, dad, you guys, 75 years old. You can't start Satan statements like that.

[B]

That is bad news. That is bad news. No chicken wings. What about. I usually already do this, like, not to alarm you as a. As a preamble.

[A]

I almost did a spit take. That's worse.

[B]

That's worse.

[A]

I think you. I think you got to start. I think you got to start even more, like, everything's fine. No, everybody's okay. And then say, we had a. We Had a routine checkup at the hospital or something like that. Not to alarm you is the most alarming thing anyone has ever said to me.

[B]

Oh, you're right. You're right. Everything's okay. Every. But that also makes me think everything's not okay.

[A]

No. If you say nobody's. Nobody's fine, everybody's okay, nobody's hurt, and then you go into it or everything's.

[B]

Fun, it's not an emergency, but.

[A]

Yeah, I don't know why. Maybe it's just your. The. Your. Your vibe. But everything you're saying is, like, making me alarmist.

[B]

Everything sounds alarmist underneath. The words I'm saying are not alarmist, but the way I'm saying them are super alarmist. What was the last Nobody's dead except Grandpa. He's dead, right?

[A]

No. What was the emergency thing you just said?

[B]

I said not to alarm you. It's not an emergency.

[A]

Oh, God, my. My hackles have just risen when you say it's not an emergency, but you know, I'm at the LA Central C.

[B]

Cooking, so you think you should just say everything's fine.

[A]

Said everything's fine. Nothing to my. Everything's fine. Nothing to worry about.

[B]

Okay. All right, all right. I like that. All right. To all of our older listeners, take that cue.

[A]

All right, Matt, this is this episode's two years in the making. So almost exactly two years ago, in episode 24, we took the first annual Social Fitness Test to determine our social fitness score. So our listeners will know that we are pushing this idea of social fitness. You have physical fitness, you're going to the gym. Mental health, you are going to see a therapist. But let's talk about social fitness, which is. Which is the strength of your relationships and friendships. And how do you know how strong you are unless you test it?

[B]

Buddy, I love how you said it's our first annual, but that we also skipped our second annual, and we only.

[A]

Did it one other time. Now, better organized podcast would have our scores from last time. We don't have them. And also, I checked and we changed the. The rubric a little bit, but I think this is what we landed on as our. As our. As our way to determine how. How strong your friendships are. So what you guys are going to do, you could just do it in your head. You don't have to write it down unless you want to. We're gonna rate each of these friendship categories from 1 to 5. Okay? So 1 is that you're really lacking in this, and 5 is that you're. You're Absolutely crushing in it. And I also want to explain that, like, these are pretty broad terms that are applying to your entire friend group. So you may have one friend who's not doing this and six friends who are doing X. Want to give yourselves an overall snapshot. Does that. That make sense, Matt?

[B]

Yeah, but also, I'm pretty sure I got a 28 and you got a 27 last time. Not to.

[A]

You sure?

[B]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure. Pretty sure.

[A]

I mean, should I look it up? I don't think.

[B]

Yeah, I'm almost 100% sure.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. I mean, Matt. Matt does have an insane memory for this stuff. Let's do one quick check and see if we've got it. And we don't.

[B]

So go back and listen.

[A]

All right, so the first category is bidirectionality. And bidirectionality. You made me look for my thing, and I lost my. My whole thing. We were really. Okay, so bi directionality means initially, whether it's initiating plans, sharing updates, or checking in during tough times, the effort among your friends is both ways. Another way we call this is being ambro dexterous. Never really caught on. But, like, your friendships are two way street.

[B]

So is this judging both yourself, the way you do it and the way your friends are doing it?

[A]

Great question, and the answer is yes. So you need to be able to be reaching out to other people, and you're making plans with them. You're also. You're giving as much as you're getting.

[B]

I mean, look, I think it's a super important one. I'm glad we. We did that one first, because you know what I always say, no friendships are 50. 50. So I like the idea of just looking at it holistically. Is there. Does it feel, you know, unbalanced? Does it not feel right? Do you feel like the burden is on you, or is the burden always on the other person? Because I know for sure in some of my friendships, like, some people are doing more of the planning or whatever, and others I'm doing more of the planning.

[A]

So you're gonna give yourself a score.

[B]

I will. You know what? I'll give myself a four. Because if I give myself fives on everything, it's gonna feel not great.

[A]

Oh, wow. You're getting a little cocky. I feel like.

[B]

No, I'm. I'm saying I think genuine. I'm being genuinely honest. I don't think I'm a five at this, because I don't actually. Yeah, no, I was gonna say I don't think. I just think overall, not it's not like whether I do it the best or the other person does. I think my. My friendships, some of them are just still a little imbalanced. I haven't totally fixed some of the imbalances in some of them.

[A]

So I actually remember what I said two years ago, as you were saying. It reminded me. And the same thing holds true, which is that my relationship, relationships are a little unbalanced. I give more than I get, but it's because I don't really need as much. I'm not necessarily asking for more.

[B]

Funny, I wonder if I said this two years ago because I used to feel that way and now I feel I expect more. And so that has made the imbalance feel greater to me.

[A]

But I don't. I'm not. I. It's not a problem. I don't expect.

[B]

It's become more of a problem, say, for me in my life. I've decided that I. I want to respect myself more. And part of respecting myself more and being healthier for myself is expecting more in those friendships. So I think then I've noticed more of the imbalance in the past two years and I haven't totally corrected it. So that's why I'm giving myself a four.

[A]

But I'm getting it interesting. So I'm gonna give myself a four, too. But we're almost giving ourselves fours for different. For different reasons, because we have.

[B]

Because we're different people and we have different needs. And that's what's interesting about this. This is. This is a very subjective test for everybody.

[A]

All right, so the next topic is vulnerability. The ability to share your authentic self. Include your fears, struggles, hopes, dreams without judgment or rejection. And Matt, I would say, as to your last question, this would also be a both ways thing. Are other people vulnerable with you?

[B]

I'm giving myself a five. And I feel really proud of the progress that I've made on my own friendship vulnerabilities. I. I feel a lot of people have always kind of come to me. We joke about how I attract the sad sex, but I've. I've not always been one who's totally open about this stuff. And we had this dinner party last year that really locked it in for me where we had everybody go around and talk about something that they were really scared to do this coming year. And if they said it might help them do it and act self actualize. And I just felt like such a big moment, not just for every person at the table, but in my own life. I. I felt my vulnerability get self Actualized in that moment. So I don't know. I'm just. I keep going back to that moment, being like, wow, that was my growth moment. I hit it there. And I'm. I'm keep running through the tape.

[A]

I know, Matt, that must have been a very pivotal moment in your life, because you've brought it up like seven times.

[B]

Yeah, but. But I keep seeing all those other people and I'm checking in on them about that stuff that we all talked about that we wanted to do.

[A]

I love that I am going to give myself a four, only because I want to give myself a little bit room to grow. I certainly feel that people can be their authentic self and be vulnerable. With me, I probably. This is more to our. To our last question. More me that I don't necessarily am vulnerable to other people. Now. What do you think about this? I was thinking about this the other day. You're gonna probably laugh. Do you ever notice that? I don't. I don't really complain that much now. I'm have a general complaining manner and. And maybe you and I have a different relationship, but I don't necessarily. Not much of a complainer.

[B]

No, neither am I. I think most. Most generally we keep our. Our stuff to ourselves. I respect that, to be honest. Yeah, look, I don't think that's not being vulnerable. I think that's. I don't know. There's. There's a lot of positive attributes to that.

[A]

Yeah. You know, so. All right, should I go. Should I up myself to a five or should I keep myself at a four?

[B]

Whatever you feel. But I do want to also incorporate our listeners. So what are you giving yourself?

[A]

Okay, so I'm giving a four. I'm. Now I'm writing it down, so I'm gonna have it for next year.

[B]

What tip can we give our listeners who are maybe scoring themselves, you know, other A3 or below here?

[A]

Yeah, so, I mean, it depends if it's outgoing or incoming, but, you know, let's do away with the sort of notion that especially male friendships have to be on the surface. And you can only talk about sports and. And interest rates. You know, like, your friendships will be deeper and more interesting and more various valuable if you are talking below the surface. Also, let's face it, where guys, your wife cannot be the only person that you emote with. Like, she. She can't handle all that.

[B]

Like, you need the OSOs.

[A]

You need the OSOs. Other significant others.

[B]

And we always say thanks is a gateway emotion if you're not at the point of vulnerability, where you're telling your friends you love them. We hope you get there one day, but showing gratitude is a really easy way. Thanks for picking me up. Thanks for buying me lunch. Thanks for remembering my birthday.

[A]

Matt, you. You practice what you preached yesterday. You called me like, 6:30pm which for both of us is like midnight, and you just wanted to say thank you. I was like. I was like, oh, what's wrong? What's going on? What do you need?

[B]

And you're like, why are you calling me? I'm like, I just honestly felt you did a really solid thing for me, and I wanted it to be acknowledged properly.

[A]

And by the way, who does not like when someone does that to them?

[B]

Yeah, man, that was a good one. That was a good one.

[A]

So that's a good hack. Matt, for getting more vulnerable is like, say thank you to your buddies.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All right, the next topic, and again, this is our social fitness test is wisdom. So wisdom and friendships is like having friends who offer thoughtful, meaningful insights to help you navigate life's complexities. So it's sort of vulnerability adjacent. It's like, do you have people to ask for advice? Do you do people that you trust and you can confide in that kind of thing?

[B]

So I'm gonna give myself a three.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

I have been struggling with this for a lot of my adult life. I have my ups and downs with it. You know, I feel I'm at a bit of a new phase. Not just the parenting with where career. Like, what. What do I ultimately want my life to look like? And I don't necessarily think I have a collection of people who sort of know me well enough and have the wisdom to impart on some of those choices that I want to make in the next couple of years.

[A]

So basically more successful friends.

[B]

I don't think it's just success. I think it's like. I mean, it depends on how you view success.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, like, I think for. For properly parenting, for what sort of schools that I'm looking for for my kids, but also, you know, just how. How to. You know, how to navigate the ins and outs, obviously, of our industry. We're also now kind of in a new industry with what we're doing with the. With the pod and all the other things that we can't really talk about. I don't feel I have. You know, I don't even want to call mentorship, but just people who have necessarily walked all the paths that I'm trying to walk.

[A]

And what about people coming to you.

[B]

For wisdom So I, I feel like I'm, you know, I don't, I don't want to, you know, toot my own horn. I do feel I, I have a lot of people who come to me. I wish more did. I. I feel I've learned a lot of things that I'm happy to share with people, but maybe I wish more people look to me for, for wisdom. I, I don't know. I feel like I'm pretty, pretty well rounded in the things that I've, you know, for people that are younger than me or not, I, I'm.

[A]

This is one of my best categories. This is an easy five for me. I feel like I have a lot of people I can call on for wisdom or advice, and I do. So I feel like a lot. As you know, I'm a mentor to several mentees. I have a check in on Monday with one of my mentees. So a lot of people are coming me to wisdom. I think the right amount. I mean, you know, someone just introduced me to somebody yesterday. This guy, you know, he's a Wall street banker. He's 45. He's crushing it, but he wants to do stand up. Can you talk to him? I was like, if he wants to throw his life away, I mean, sure, right?

[B]

I mean, I get a lot of that, but where are the ones that. I mean, do you. You feel. I'm just saying, you. I'm being genuinely serious.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you actually feel your, you know, because we have always longed for mentors, you feel on that other side of it, you are sated with the number of people and the quality of people that you can go to for all your questions.

[A]

Yeah. You know, I hadn't thought about the mentor thing specifically, and that's what we talked about two years ago. Now I'm remembering it. I, I've almost like the. That ship has sailed. You know, I'm 45 years old. You know, will I ever have a mentor? I, I think I'm. Now I'm the mentor. That's it. I've. I've. The mentee has my problem.

[B]

Maybe that's my problem. I won't give up on finding somebody older.

[A]

But you've. You've been, you've been cultivating some mentors.

[B]

I've been cultivating, I've been cultivating, but I haven't. You know, I just, I'm not, I'm not. As I said, I'm giving myself a three because I want to. I want to grow. I want to keep going.

[A]

You know, my cousin who just Started Hofstra Law. He reached out to an alumni of his undergrad university on. Just on LinkedIn and just for some advice. And this guy ex, like, responded so effusively. He basically was like, I will mentor you. And I was like, oh, my God, this is. I'm like, do you even understand how great this is? Like, run with this forever.

[B]

Run, run. You get a mentor latch. Latch on, like a parasite inside their body and control it. Like one of those little parasites that control the ants, you know, zombie ants.

[A]

Of course. Yeah.

[B]

For our listeners on this, if you are feeling your three or below, I always say a couple. I think a couple pieces of helpful advice. One is when, when seeking out wisdom or mentors, tell people, try to be as specific as possible about what it is that you're seeking guidance on. Because I think it's easy, easier for people to offer that wisdom or that guidance other than you just being like, yeah, you know, I just. Maybe I want to do this, maybe I want to do that. And then they can't kind of steer you in the right direction.

[A]

So, Matt, I think you'd appreciate this. So. So my cousin sent me the outgoing message he was sending this guy and was like, I'd love, you know, some career advice to hear a little bit more about your story. Like, if you have any internships, I'm like, take that last part out. Like, don't ask him for anything in the initial email. Just talk to them. Don't ask him for anything. See where it comes.

[B]

And what do you think about the offering of some sort of value? It's, It's. It's tricky, right, when you're in that intern phase or looking for, you know, because you think of yourself as somebody who can't add value. How. How would you address that?

[A]

So I love that, you know, I'm so far gone from corporate America because what we do for in our careers, we say, happy to read anything if you want eyes on something.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I don't know what a lost.

[B]

You know what I do, I would offer to. I would send them relevant articles, anything that you think is informationally valuable.

[A]

Oh, that's interesting. Huh?

[B]

So I, I know this from. From the recruiting, headhunting hustle that I also have.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Sometimes I'll send people just interesting news in their. In their industry that they're probably not aware of. I get a lot of new stuff, like, like breaking news stuff sent to me. So I find that to be a value add. When I go, man, I can't really help this person in Any other way. But that is helpful.

[A]

Yeah, that's great. That's great. So, Matt, I think we're going to do a little left turn. We usually take a listener question. Now. Let's keep going with the test if we have time at the end to the question, otherwise we'll do it next time. So the next one is proximity, which is how close your friends live to you. The opposite of this would be what we call bros in different area codes where your friends are spread out all over the place. And you know, we have said that having friends in other cities is great and there's opportunities for travel, but ultimately proximity will always trump everything else. You need people to see in person and touch them and give them high fives and go to lunch together. So what would you. I mean, I'm. I can guess what your proximity score is going to be.

[B]

I mean, I'm giving myself a five. I'm thriving in my neighborhood. I mean, every day I see, I have the, what you know, we call it the balanced diet, the, the, the dude pyramid. We have the dude pyramid, which we talked about, which is the three groups, which is alone time, outer circle, and inner circle. And so I have my alone time. I have my walks, I have my meditation, my outer circle. I have all the random people in my neighborhood that know me, that make me feel good just to get a nod or a hello or a quick chat while they're walking their dog or person in the coffee shop. And then I have my inner circle. You know, I have my, my morning coffees. We have our random happy hours. I have my neighbor sometimes just inviting me over for random things. And so I've really cultivated. I have people doing pop ins before dinner. We have, we invite people for pool dates. And my school is within a mile of here, my kids school. I was just there this morning. I was late to the POD because of that. Because I was doing a talk with the rabbi actually. So I've really, really, really gone local. You know that I'm the biggest proselytizer. Evangelist.

[A]

Evangelist, yeah.

[B]

For proximity. And I'm 100 practicing what I preach. I could not say enough about how important I think it is.

[A]

By the way, when you say proximity, I love how you, you consider that your block. I mean, I just mean, I usually mean the city at least. You know, if you have friends in the city, I think that's okay too.

[B]

That's why I'm giving myself a five. I don't even have to leave my block.

[A]

Right, right. But I'm saying, you know, If. If. If your buddies live in the same town as you. I think if you live in, you know, financial district and your friends are in the Upper east side, that's okay.

[B]

Yes, yes.

[A]

So, and. And. And, you know, to our listeners, like, this is a good time to take stock of, like, oh, if you're like, all my friends live somewhere else. We just did an episode about moving there. Just something to think about if your friends aren't close.

[B]

So what do you think? Yes. No, I agree.

[A]

I'm just saying I'm a five two. I'm a five two. Yeah. Okay, now. Now we're gonna. Did you have something else?

[B]

Well, no, I think we should just talk a little bit about how you can improve that, you know, with. Other than moving.

[A]

All right, well, we have a hundred episodes of how to make a new friend where you live, which is find your third place.

[B]

Right, right. So I think, just obviously, reminder, third places are a good place to sort of build some of that community and improve your proximity score.

[A]

Yeah. And. And let's expand a third place. A place where people socialize and gather or an activity. So it's anywhere from a coffee shop or a gym to a political organization or a run club. And you have to go regularly and consistently. If you do an activity or you find a place to hang out, you can't just randomly go once in a while, same time every week, same time every day. And eventually you will meet some people.

[B]

Right. And then you could stop saying, oh, this insert city sucks for making friends.

[A]

Right, exactly, exactly. Because that's a limiting belief. Your city does not suck, and you don't suck. All right, let's talk about the sticky wicket. Let's talk about your diversity score. So this doesn't necessarily mean, you know, our traditional definitions of diversity, you know, gender, ethnicity, and race or sexual orientation. This is more about friends who occupy different roles in your life. So you've got work friends, you've got couple friends, you've got your activity friends, your gym friends, you got friends you're really tight with. You got friends you see every once in a while. So this is more kind of like your mix, like what your cornucopia of friends is like. Is it. If you just only have five work friends, you know, that could be an issue because, you know, you get fired, that's the end of that. Or if your friends are only from your run club, but that's only once a week, and you never see them. So this is kind of your mix of friends. And about regular diversity, too, I suppose.

[B]

Yeah. You know, it's funny because mine, I could. I could look at mine in different ways, but I'm going to give myself a four. On the one hand, I've got a lot of friends from a lot of different walks of life. On the other hand, you know, just in the phase of life I'm in right now, I'm not really diversifying. And I think I'm being a little bit intentional about not doing that because I'm like, you always say I spread myself too thin. I've been trying to avoid that, but somehow, you know, sometimes in avoiding that, I'm. I'm longing for just kind of the. A little bit of irregularity in what I have. You know, it's a. It's almost like very flat.

[A]

I'm also going to give myself an aspirational four, and that I do have a pretty diverse, you know, crew, people from different walks of life, not only industry people, you know, people don't know each other, people who are new friends, people who are old friends, but, you know, meeting more randos.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is, is. It's funny because my New Year's resolution the past few years is honor the inner circle. Meaning, you know.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Spend time with the inner.

[B]

You were big on this, and I.

[A]

Feel like I've been doing a pretty good job. But, like, you know that we've talked about this. Like, those new randos are the spice of life.

[B]

They are. They are.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You know, I try to make one new friend every year.

[A]

Are you. You just deciding that now?

[B]

No, I've always kind of done that, or like every couple years I try to, like, incorporate one new one.

[A]

Do you. I mean, but I feel like you made 40 new friends in the past two years.

[B]

No, I know, but like, one quality one.

[A]

Right, Right. Yeah. I don't know that I've added a inner circle person in many a year, and I'd actually, I can. I'm trying to honor the initial ones, but I'd like to make kind of someone who. Someone who, like, does some random thing, I don't know, goes to women's soccer games or, like.

[B]

Yeah, I missed that too. I missed the, like, somebody who's just not in our lanes.

[A]

Yeah, but like. But still gets you.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Our, our. Our group is a, you know. Well, it's not, it's not homogeneous.

[B]

I said flat. I said flat because it's not like an insult. I just think it's. It's a little flat.

[A]

Yeah. And I think, you know, for our listeners, if your diversity score is low, Some of it is about embracing randomness. So we just said in the previous segment to embrace consistency, but we also tell our listeners to embrace randomness, which is sometimes you just gotta do a random ass thing and sometimes by yourself, right?

[B]

Like, if you are interested in meeting somebody who likes to mix it up in politics, go to one of those debate live things that are going on.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Or, you know, I. I'm just trying to think of, like, the. The random. You know, it's also like if. If you. If. If a, you know, industry stuff is happening or work stuff, like personal development stuff, conferences, you know, this will come out after this. But I'm going to a conference in two weeks in Atlanta, Matt. Like, you know, no one person there, but I'll.

[B]

No, that'll be good, though. That'll be good.

[A]

I'm trying to make a friend, actually. See if I can make a friend.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

All right, challenge accepted. All right, our last one is. Is quantity. Now, quantity and friendship. This is a little bit more nuanced. Okay. Obviously, quality over quantity is what we always. Not what we always say, but what the. What the trope is. But the reality is for friendship, you know, I'd rather you have, like, one best friend than 10 hangers on. But life changes. People move, people get fired. God forbid, people pass away. People are busy, people get married. So quantity is an important factor. And then before we score ourselves, Matt, sort of, you want to just talk a little bit about sort of quantity debate we've sort of had on this pot about is more better in friendship, or does it not matter?

[B]

As I've said, I think more is better. I'm very much a believer in what you just said about, you know, things change. And so it's almost like you have a safety net. You've got a valve that you can open in case, you know, in case of. Remember Chris Rock's joke about, like, the backup friend? Why, you know, that the women always kept around. Well, maybe we need to keep around some other friends. You know, I have a friend who's moving away to France right now, and that's disappointing. I have another friend who's contemplating moving back to New York. And it's just. Those would be daunting for me, I think, in if I were just relying on those two friends. And then, oh, man, now where am I? You know? But I think there's a right number, too, because I'm. I'm gonna give myself a five on friendship quantity because my cup runneth over, and I'm now in the zone where I'm like, I'm not sure I have capacity to make a new. Any more new friends right now, but.

[A]

Yet you call me tomorrow and be like, I ran into this guy on the street. Now we're getting coffee and he's my best friend and blah, blah, blah.

[B]

No, but I've noticed myself doing that thing where. And I don't like to do this, where you're having that text with somebody new and you're like, we should get together. And I'm doing that we should get together thing for months at a time.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Which we all hate. I'm guilty of it right now. It's. And it's because I just. I'm literally looking at the schedule and there's just no conceivable way that I could grow a new friendship right at this moment.

[A]

Yeah. I am also giving myself a five. But I will say, you know, listen, over in 2024, I could think of a handful of times where I was like, you know what? I'd like to grab a beer or something like that. And like, you weren't around. Maybe it was like a summer weekend and people were traveling or at weddings, and I was like, oh, I actually don't really have someone to hang out with at this moment. And I have, you know, quite a bit of friends, so I don't know if that would be addressed by having even more friends. But I'm saying quantity is important for everybody.

[B]

Yeah. And by the way, Jesse always hounds me on that because sometimes I go, you know, I told you, I get my. I get the blues in the late afternoons, which I have not been getting lately because I'm too busy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

My therapist was always like, it's okay if you need to be too busy. And that's how you function. That's how you function fine. Like, I literally haven't had the blues and a while in the late afternoon, but being like, oh, man, I don't have anybody to hang out with. But Jesse also disabused me of that notion because she was like, you have a hundred friends. That's nonsense.

[A]

You just.

[B]

It's two o' clock on a Tuesday.

[A]

Well, she was meaning, like, you have all these friends and you just. You can't see them because. Because. What do you mean? It's the middle of a work day.

[B]

Is what you're saying. Yes, yes.

[A]

Right? Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Or when, like, last minute. I have free time and I haven't planned anything. She's like, you. No, that's just because you didn't Plan anything and people plan.

[A]

Right, right. Yeah. And, you know, I still think, again, I'd rather have one really close friend than, you know, 10, because, you know what? On those days where I didn't. I didn't really have anyone to hang out with, I could have gone to the outer, outer circle, but I didn't really want to. I'd rather not do anything then so that those friends are pointless.

[B]

Then they're not really your friends.

[A]

No, no, they're my friends. It's just like maybe that. That beer. They're not beer drinking friends. They're not alcoholic.

[B]

I was gonna say maybe that's a sign that they're not really your friends. If you're on. If it's a random day that you want to have a drink at a bar, which is a very low bar, you know, It's a low bar.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And not willing to dip into that pool because I've been there too. Like, I find myself alone in a bar, I've got an hour to kill. Like, could maybe text an outer friend.

[A]

No, but that just mean, like, you know, if I have a friend from the run club, that doesn't mean they're a beer friend.

[B]

Right. Or something. Okay, yeah, maybe that's right. So any other advice for our friend? Our. Our people on the quantity of it all? What's the right number? You gotta have three. At least. Healthy for health.

[A]

Three close friends who live near you.

[B]

Yeah, that. That's your ideal.

[A]

Yeah, I think have to have it.

[B]

And if you don't have it, it's okay. We're going to help you. But that's our goal.

[A]

Yeah. Because that means you're going out. If you're. If you're. If you're all friends with each other, that's four people. So that's great. And yeah, I think three, like, that's, you know, listen, who do I really hit up? I hit up you. I hit fireball Adam, and I hit up Jeff. You know, those are my first three calls usually. So that's sort of what we have now. Or I have. So I think that's good. All right, Matt, should I add them up?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

All right. Matt, 26, Cairo 27.

[B]

All right, so I went down. But I also think two years ago I was being less. I don't want to say honest, but, you know, less. I had less insights.

[A]

Well, you. You won last year.

[B]

I thought two years ago I won. Yes.

[A]

I mean, it's not a competition, but.

[B]

But I won based on having less insights about myself.

[A]

Right, right. You know It's. It's. And we scored a 20. You had a 26 and a 27. So we're pretty high. There's always room for growth. I mean, also, we're the ones doing this podcast because we're Apex Friends, Chief Friendship Officers. But I would say if your number is in the, you know, low 20s or below, that is a little bit of a cause for concern that maybe a you need to do social inventory, which is, like, actually make a list of your friends and, like, you know, be a little bit more intentional about who they actually are, and then kind of think about, well, how can I improve?

[B]

Yeah, I think Caro's right. The social inventory is important, you know, kind of. Right. I think you should write out on a little note on the Notes app a list of your friends and. And then, you know, kind of star the ones that you're feeling really good about and see if there's ways to improve those ones. That's. I think that would be my first step.

[A]

And even if the list is pretty short, it's just a good visual representation. And, like. And also, seven of the 10 live in, you know, Boston. It's time to move to Boston.

[B]

Move to Boston.

[A]

Move to Boston. All right, we're gonna do our listener question next time. I think we. I think we covered anything. Any last thoughts?

[B]

No, I think it's a useful exercise. Are we going to try and do it once a year, twice a year? What's our plan?

[A]

We'll do it in a couple of years when we remember that we even.

[B]

Did it annually, every couple of years.

[A]

And also, guys, send us your scores because we want to know how you scored. All right, guys, thank you so much for listening. Guys, always remember, be good to yourself. Be good to your friends. Love you, buddy.

[B]

Love you, bud.