#131 - The Loneliness Economy

Summary

Podcast Summary: Man of the Year - Champions of Friendship
Episode #131: The Loneliness Economy
Release Date: May 13, 2025

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Introduction

In episode #131 of Man of the Year - Champions of Friendship, hosts Matt Ritter and Aaron Karo delve into the burgeoning phenomenon known as the "Loneliness Economy." Addressing the alarming statistics—such as 15% of men reporting having zero close friends—the duo explores various initiatives, technologies, and community efforts aimed at combating societal loneliness. Through their trademark blend of humor and expert insight, Matt and Aaron provide listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the strategies being employed to foster meaningful connections in an increasingly isolated world.

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The Headphone Culture Rant

Timestamp: [01:03] - [06:42]

Aaron Karo opens the conversation with a passionate rant about the pervasive headphone culture in modern society. Frustrated by the ubiquity of earbuds and noise-canceling headphones, Aaron laments how these devices act as barriers to genuine human interaction.

Aaron Karo [01:07]: "Leave aside the fact that people can't go anywhere without their stupid earbuds. They need to have music or phone calls or podcasts pumped into their brains at all time, even out in the street."

Matt Ritter agrees, sharing his personal struggles with headphone use, highlighting how it stems from childhood experiences with bullying and bullying victims.

Matt Ritter [02:21]: "My theory is like, it goes back to our public school upbringing. Like people are like, oh I hope my kid doesn't get bullied. I'm like if you go to public school, your kid will be a bully and have been bullied at some point in their life."

The hosts discuss the social faux pas of overly using headphones in public spaces, such as farmer's markets and airports, emphasizing the importance of balancing personal device use with face-to-face interactions.

Aaron Karo [05:09]: "Like, have you ever lived in the world? Like, I don't want to see your telenovela. Like, I don't understand. People either have too much headphones or not enough headphones. And can we have something in between?"

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Exploring the Loneliness Economy

Timestamp: [06:47] - [21:41]

Transitioning from their initial rant, Matt and Aaron introduce the concept of the Loneliness Economy—a response to the widespread issue of loneliness through various community-focused solutions.

Belong Centers and Community Initiatives

The hosts discuss "Belong Centers," innovative community hubs designed to mitigate loneliness by fostering connections. Matt describes these centers as "community centers on steroids," equipped with curated spaces like the "belonging bench" to encourage spontaneous conversations.

Matt Ritter [08:46]: "They have a belonging bench where like the bench, the shape of the bench, it's like a curved bench. It's like all it is is a curved bench."

Aaron praises the design, noting how it forces engagement among strangers.

Aaron Karo [09:56]: "It's curved in a way that essentially if you sit anywhere on it, you're facing somebody and you basically forces you to have a conversation with a stranger. It's kind of brilliant."

Governmental and Non-Profit Efforts

The conversation shifts to governmental recognition of loneliness, highlighting the UK's appointment of a Minister of Loneliness and the allocation of funds towards loneliness reduction strategies.

Aaron Karo [11:06]: "It's very interesting because again, I think people think that this is frivolous stuff. The amount of money being spent by the government on lonely people because lonely people are sicker. They take their own lives."

Tech Solutions and Social Apps

Matt and Aaron explore various technological solutions aimed at building friendships, from neighborhood-specific social networks to friendship-centric apps akin to Tinder but for platonic relationships.

Matt Ritter [13:24]: "Residential buildings, almost like the belong benches of buildings. So they're like an apartment complex that's built around socializing."

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Listener Question: Navigating Belong Centers

Timestamp: [21:41] - [33:46]

The episode features a listener question regarding the discomfort some may feel when entering designated spaces like Belong Centers to meet strangers, drawing parallels to the stigma associated with attending Alcoholics Anonymous (AA).

Matt Ritter [21:41]: "This actually came from this listener question. Matt and Carol, I've been hearing a lot about the belonging centers and these friendship apps, but it feels weird to me to walk into a place specifically for strangers to meet."

Hosts' Response and Insights

Aaron reassures listeners by emphasizing the normalization and stigma-free environment of Belong Centers, likening them to gyms or therapy sessions where attendance is a proactive step towards well-being.

Aaron Karo [22:22]: "The point is just to make it. This is not weird. You shouldn't, you don't need to feel embarrassed. We're over that."

Matt elaborates by comparing Belong Centers to everyday activities that inherently foster connections, such as joining a kickball league or a hiking group, reframing them as subtle belonging hubs.

Matt Ritter [24:03]: "They have a million other things that you can do if you don't feel comfortable walking into a place that is overtly saying here is the place."

Community Engagement and Personal Initiatives

Matt shares his recent involvement in the neighborhood council for the Greater Wilshire region, aiming to enhance community bonds and implement ideas like the Belong Bench in local parks.

Matt Ritter [14:02]: "I put it in my mission statement. I host a podcast on friendship and I believe in local and I want us all, first and foremost to know each other."

The hosts humorously discuss the challenges of managing a potential Loneliness Economy business, showcasing their commitment to fostering genuine connections over profit motives.

Aaron Karo [31:09]: "What did we learn today about the loneliness economy? Well, I think we learned we got to up our game here. We got to get our own piece of this pie."

Closing Thoughts

Matt and Aaron reiterate the importance of normalizing discussions around loneliness and making community engagement accessible without stigma. They encourage listeners to seek out or create their own belonging opportunities, whether through formal centers or informal groups.

Matt Ritter [28:28]: "We're at the forefront of explicitly normalizing loneliness and normalizing that social health is as important as going to the gym for physical health or seeing a therapist."

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Conclusion

Episode #131 of Man of the Year - Champions of Friendship offers a deep dive into the complexities of the Loneliness Economy, blending personal anecdotes with a critical examination of societal trends and solutions. Matt Ritter and Aaron Karo effectively highlight the multifaceted approaches being taken to address loneliness, from community centers and social apps to personal initiatives like neighborhood councils. Their candid discussions encourage listeners to reflect on their own social interactions and consider proactive steps toward building and maintaining meaningful friendships.

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Notable Quotes:

• Aaron Karo [01:07]: "They need to have music or phone calls or podcasts pumped into their brains at all time, even out in the street."
• Matt Ritter [02:21]: "If you go to public school, your kid will be a bully and have been bullied at some point in their life."
• Aaron Karo [09:56]: "It's like a dance party that, you know, starts at 8am you go before work and you know, you let us in my 20s."
• Matt Ritter [24:14]: "Those are all belonging centers. They're just under a different name because they don't, you know, they understand that people have a bit of a sort of hurdle going."
• Aaron Karo [28:22]: "We're at the forefront of explicitly normalizing loneliness and normalizing that social health is as important as going to the gym for physical health."

---

Additional Resources:

• Visit manofthearpodcast.com for merch and YouTube clips.
• Follow @manoftheyrpodcast on Instagram for friendship questions and ethical dilemmas to be featured in future episodes.

Transcript

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[Aaron Caro]

Welcome to the Number One Friendship Podcast in the country. I'm Aaron Caro.

[Matt Ritter]

I'm Matt Ritter.

[Aaron Caro]

Make sure to go to manofthearpodcast.com to grab our we should be friends merch and check out our clips on YouTube. Matt I have a rant and this rant is about the out of control headphone culture in this country. I mean, leave aside the fact that people can't go anywhere without their stupid earbuds. They need to have music or phone calls or podcasts pumped into their brains at all time, even out in the street. I was at the farmer's market the other day and this woman had the beat headphones. So not the little plugs, like the giant headphones. And she was talking to like a farmer about I'm like, it's so rude. Like interact with another human being. You don't need to be wearing gigantic noise cancelling headphones at a farmer's market. And then you have the other side of the society who are in the airport just watching a video on their phone. No, no headphones. Like, have you ever lived in the world? Like, I don't want to see your telenovela. Like, I don't understand. People either have too much headphones or not enough headphones. And can we have something in between?

[Matt Ritter]

I have so many thoughts based on personal experience being the culprit and the victim.

[Aaron Caro]

You are. You, you really do run the gamut.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah, I, I, my theory is like, it goes back to our public school upbringing. Like people are like, oh I hope my kid doesn't get bullied. I'm like if you go to public school, your kid will be a bully and have been bullied at some point in their life. Victim and predator, predator and prey. Same thing with the headphones. So I lose my headphones a lot. So Jesse's ready to divorce me when I. At night before bed, I can't find my headphones and I'm listening to Nick's podcast on speaker now.

[Aaron Caro]

You are horrible. You are disgusting.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

Like you should, you should get a vasectomy. Like, first of all, just keep wired headphones in your nightstand.

[Matt Ritter]

That's actually a good idea. I do have a backup set of wired headphones. I think you just hacked our marriage. I think you just saved our marriage.

[Aaron Caro]

You sitting in bed with your lovely, lovely wife while she's reading a book and you listen to a Nick's podcast on full volume is just like it's a horror movie.

[Matt Ritter]

I try to keep it on low volume.

[Aaron Caro]

Look, I guarantee you it's. It's not low enough.

[Matt Ritter]

I put it on the lowest that I can hear it like comfort comfortably, like so I don't have to hear him whisper, you know. But then I've been victimized recently. I was at my kids school and they have a kind of like a work area that I told you about. Some people just kind of will stay for a couple hours and do some work. Just get out of the house. It's like a coffee shop essentially. And a woman took a call, a zoom call. And I, I get it if you need to speak. Even that's a little like pushing it. But the people on the zoom were speaking to her on speaker through the, through the computer to everybody in that room. How better texting with them? It's. It's eight person table. It's tiny.

[Aaron Caro]

It's not a room. It's a, it's a, it's a table.

[Matt Ritter]

It's a table. It's a table room. It's. And so I started texting with one of the other moms. I was like, should I play my next podcast right now?

[Aaron Caro]

Your superpower. If you were like a, like a, like would be a Nick's podcast. Like if you see someone.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah, I just play it and then everybody leaves the room. Amazing.

[Aaron Caro]

But so, so, so the people who don't have the headphones, that's just like self awareness, you know, that's my pedillo. I hate when people don't have that. And the people. But just the people walking around with beats headphones on. Like live in the now, bro.

[Matt Ritter]

Like, I agree. I believe that I, you, if somebody approaches you, your friend you haven't seen or you're catching up with someone, take them out. Take them out.

[Aaron Caro]

Oh, yeah, that's, that's a given. I mean, if that's insane.

[Matt Ritter]

Well, that's what you're saying. You're saying they don't take them out when they're talking to people. Well, that's, I believe, headphones on to talk to the guy.

[Aaron Caro]

That's rude, right? But I think it's almost more rude to speak to a service employee, a cashier or somebody. Like, I just, people. It's just disgusting.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah, take him out, Take him out. Make eye contact.

[Aaron Caro]

I don't even if, if, if, if I, if a call comes in, I'm the grocery store and I have to take it and I'm checking out. I feel horrible. I'm like, I'm so sorry. And I say, hold on. I don't know. What do you think about that elevator.

[Matt Ritter]

People who do it? It's the worst taking calls in an elevator. You know, the people to keep their calls going in the elevator. But like, instead of going, hey, I'm gonna have to call you back. I'm getting an elevator. Like, hey, I don't have to call you back. I'm just going to annoy everybody in the elevator. I'm good.

[Aaron Caro]

What about people who just do their shopping and just are having a phone call the entire time at the grocery store?

[Matt Ritter]

I sometimes will do that for grocery shopping. I sometimes do that because that's a good time for me to hack do. Why, what's wrong with that? I'm not bothering anybody.

[Aaron Caro]

I don't know. For some reason it bothers me.

[Matt Ritter]

That feels okay.

[Aaron Caro]

Okay, I'll give, I'll give you that one. I'll give you that one. Just.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah, that's a good family member.

[Aaron Caro]

Right? Also, I, I, I can't do two things at once. If I'm talking to you on the phone, I can't pick out a mango.

[Matt Ritter]

You can't get a right mango. This guy's coming home with moldy mangoes. He's like, what happened? I was on a phone call.

[Aaron Caro]

I mean, the thing, yeah, the things I do. I, I could. The only stuff I can do, like stack habits is drive or like, or like, I don't know, clean up.

[Matt Ritter]

As a one at a time.

[Aaron Caro]

I'm a unit tasker. But speaking. This is not a great transition. But thinking, speaking of, of commerce, one thing that I think one of the things that you send me the most. Matt. So Matt sends me messages on LinkedIn and, and it's just, it's just, you know, a one way stream of nonsense.

[Matt Ritter]

Listen, we're friends fluencers. We need to know what's going on.

[Aaron Caro]

Friend fluencers. Have we.

[Matt Ritter]

No, I wanted to test it out on you.

[Aaron Caro]

Friend fluencers. Does he like friend influencers? It's not bad. It's not. It's not bad.

[Matt Ritter]

Let it marinate with that for a couple weeks now. I said it at a party last weekend. They loved it. Ate it up.

[Aaron Caro]

It's. It's funny whenever you and I are out in the field and we're just talking to people maybe like who don't know. I was telling someone about the podcast last night who never heard of it, they like go bananas.

[Matt Ritter]

I mean we are a big deal. We forget that sometimes.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, but you're always sending me these apps and these, these, these like companies and buildings and services and locations and it's, it's been called the loneliness economy. There's this whole cottage industry cropping up of for profit and I guess maybe nonprofit organizations trying to solve this crisis. I thought we should, should talk about some of these companies.

[Matt Ritter]

Aren't we basically the Steve Jobs and Bill Gates of the loneliness economy?

[Aaron Caro]

We are. Say it again.

[Matt Ritter]

Were the visionaries of the.

[Aaron Caro]

Yes, yes. Of course. We didn't get in. We. We didn't get into it to capitalize, but we will.

[Matt Ritter]

We must.

[Aaron Caro]

So talk to me at these belong centers was actually you told me about them.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah. So you know, in a. This is only like I think they launched last year. So these belong centers are basically. They claim to be research backed and they have these kind of multifaceted approaches to loneliness across the country. So they're building these belonging centers which is like a place where people go that I guess are lonely. But they, they've developed these long belong circles which are their program and they have these belong core which is like the Peace Corps but to combat loneliness like the volunteers and they have this sort of data center. So they, they've put this all together to basically have it be like a community center. I mean I don't really know how you necessarily. You would distinguish it from a community center. It's really just a community center on steroids. But I mean some of it is funny. Like they have a belonging bench where like the bench, the shape of the bench, it's like a curved bench. I mean all it is is a curved bench. It's like. Yeah, you know, it's a belonging table. A table that you know, has Room for people to sit next to each other.

[Aaron Caro]

I, you know, you, you showed me this bench yesterday. I actually think it's kind of brilliant. I actually haven't been able to stop thinking about it. So just for our listeners, I mean, it's curved in a way that essentially if you sit anywhere on it, you're facing somebody and you basically forces you to have a conversation with a stranger. It's kind of brilliant.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah, so it is, it is kind of forcing engagement. But the idea is like to, to, to empower people to, you know, feel less lonely and they, they're catering to them and I'm not sure what the price points are. I have to. Are they free? I had that part I didn't look into.

[Aaron Caro]

Well, the, the benches?

[Matt Ritter]

No, just the, the. There's tickets for everything. Let's see.

[Aaron Caro]

Oh, look at it.

[Matt Ritter]

Select tickets. Let's see how much for this event. Let's see, let's see how much free. Wow, great.

[Aaron Caro]

Okay, great. So maybe, so maybe it's not even the loneliest economy. It's, it's the loneliest non.

[Matt Ritter]

Yes. They're doing a lot of in person gatherings. You know, that's, that's basically there. It's a, it's a 501 3c non profit.

[Aaron Caro]

Oh, great. By the way, I don't know. Do we ever discuss that the UK has a minister of loneliness?

[Matt Ritter]

That's awesome.

[Aaron Caro]

And it's very interesting because again, I think people think that this is frivolous stuff. The amount of money being spent on by the, by the government on lonely people. Because only people are sicker. They take their own lives. You know, so this is, they just determine that this would be a way that we could, you know, it's called loneliness reduction strategies. So it's, it's pretty, it's pretty interesting.

[Matt Ritter]

Do you think a lot of people think it's frivolous?

[Aaron Caro]

Well, our, our entire thing is based on the fact that people don't, you know, value friendships as well as other relationships.

[Matt Ritter]

Frank, you think that's changed at all? I don't know. It feels like we're on a. The point is we're now in a moment, right? Like when we started this pod two and a half years ago, people were like, wait, you're doing a podcast on friendship? Why?

[Aaron Caro]

Right?

[Matt Ritter]

What does that even. They were like, what does that even mean?

[Aaron Caro]

I think that it's certainly. I'll put it this way, Matt, let me tell me if you agree with this. What it. Three years ago we started this and we would say epidemic of loneliness. People would look at us with blank faces. Now when I say that, they go, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like they know it. They're aware of it.

[Matt Ritter]

I think they're aware. But it's not yet. It's not yet broken through. Still.

[Aaron Caro]

We have. We have work to do.

[Matt Ritter]

We have work. There's a lot of other stuff. Right. What are the other stuff that's going on in the. In the loneliest economy that I want to just like inventory people.

[Aaron Caro]

So you've got residential buildings, almost like the belong benches of buildings. So they're like an apartment complex that's built around socializing. So a lot of common areas, a lot of shared kitchens and stuff like that. There's of course, many apps. You're sending me an app every other day which is about both helping you make new friends, helping you get closer with your existing friends, and also finding events, finding things that people are doing. There's also, you know, neighborhood. You know, you always like to stay look at local, so there's like, you know, things to. To better interact with people near you. It's almost like a social network for your neighborhood, which is interesting.

[Matt Ritter]

I like that. By the way. Hot, hot news for you. Hot news. Hot off the presses at 11:50pm I was up. I haven't been having trouble sleeping lately, and I'm not usually up that hours. I do impulsive things and I saw that there. Saw that they were. There's a neighborhood council.

[Aaron Caro]

Oh, no.

[Matt Ritter]

Through my hat in the ring.

[Aaron Caro]

I have a thousand questions. 1. Did you not know there's a neighborhood council?

[Matt Ritter]

No, I did, but I saw that the deadline was midnight.

[Aaron Caro]

Wow. And is it an election? Yeah, I mean, I. You know what? I like this for you. I don't, I don't love the time commitment. But you, you as you know, you. You want to be a pillar of the community.

[Matt Ritter]

As I understand it, it's a couple hours a month, like four or five hours a month.

[Aaron Caro]

You know, that's. That's not. That's not nothing. But that's not crazy.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah. What is the. What is the. What is the municipality?

[Matt Ritter]

So it's greater Wilshire region. So it's like mid Wilshire, Hancock park. And there's different zones. My zone is. I mean, most of the zones are like a 4 by 4 block radius. So it's like really? Yeah, yeah. You're like, really? Your. Your block, your neighbor's block, like three. They're broken up into these, like, you know, 4x4 block sets.

[Aaron Caro]

I feel like. Do you know who you're running against like an alderman. This is, I love this for you. Do you? Do you. I mean, you, you do tend to abuse power when you have it, but do you, do you know who you're running against?

[Matt Ritter]

No idea.

[Aaron Caro]

Got it, got it. Interesting. This is, this is, this is great. Like, besides your thirst for power, your need for better speed bumps, like, this is about getting to know people in your community.

[Matt Ritter]

I put it in my mission statement. I said I host a podcast on friendship and I, I believe in local and I want us all, first and foremost to know each other.

[Aaron Caro]

God, I can only, can only imagine the typos that this statement was rife with.

[Matt Ritter]

I got it in right, right onto the gun.

[Aaron Caro]

That's great. And, and when can we. When, when will our listeners find out?

[Matt Ritter]

Find out soon. I think it's. The election's next month, so I'll keep you guys posted.

[Aaron Caro]

That's great. So, yeah, so, so maybe you could, maybe you could. What's it called? Like, like you could partner with one of these neighborhood social networks and like, implement it.

[Matt Ritter]

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Aaron Caro]

I mean, to me there's always, what's the, what's the word? Negative externalities, like connecting everybody in your, in your neighborhood on a social network. It probably will lead to also show.

[Matt Ritter]

There could be some downside. It's like citizen, you know, like people getting, there's like fights on citizen and all that stuff.

[Aaron Caro]

Are you big into those apps?

[Matt Ritter]

No. Every time I download them, I have to de. Download them the next morning.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah. D. Download is, is Citizen. What's the other one?

[Matt Ritter]

Download, delete, forget. I forget.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, neighborhood, something. Yeah.

[Matt Ritter]

I don't want to know the red dots. I don't want to know that I'm surrounded by red dots.

[Aaron Caro]

Right, right, right, right. And so do you think there's anything wrong with a for profit company dealing with this?

[Matt Ritter]

No, no, not at all. Look, if you're providing some sort of good, why should you not, you know, be profiting off of it? I mean, why should dating apps, you know, aren't. I mean, it's the same thing. Right?

[Aaron Caro]

That's, that's fair. It's a fair point. I mean, you know, the profit motive is, is, is, is, is, is motivational, I guess.

[Matt Ritter]

But do we think any of this stuff is working?

[Aaron Caro]

I mean, I've never heard of any of these companies. I mean, I, I, but, you know, I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't know. But is it working? I mean, does it matter? I mean, we're trying, right?

[Matt Ritter]

No, but I'm just saying, do we think that's how we're gonna break through, through these apps, through these belonging centers? Like, also, by the way, hey, here's another one, guys. Message us our advice. It's free. Right now. Right now. Right now.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah. Matt. Matt, if you wanted, like, a real thoughtful one, you know, who's directed to Matt, do you want just a double tap at a heart directed to me?

[Matt Ritter]

You want to clap a clappy emoji there? Kiro is very thoughtful with our listeners. We do get a lot of advice questions coming in directly through the messages, you know, not, not just the ones that we, that we talk about on the pod, so. But we're happy to help anytime.

[Aaron Caro]

Before we get to listener question, I just want to run through just a list a couple things. So there's, there's elder care. There's a couple of companies that China, obviously that's a, that's a very vulnerable population for loneliness. There's something called family tech, which is, it's focused a lot on new moms. As you know, it can be very isolating. There's third places we've talked about. There's sort of bars and restaurants now that are specifically for people getting together. I think there's a place in Atlanta actually called the third Place. There are obviously a bunch of friendship apps that are kind of like Tinder, but for friends. And then there's also things about couples. You know, there's ways to share stuff with your partner. And then this AI Girl, go to the Atlanta one.

[Matt Ritter]

We gotta go.

[Aaron Caro]

I was in Atlanta. I'm gonna make a note.

[Matt Ritter]

Why don't you go?

[Aaron Caro]

I honestly didn't even think about it. I'm sorry. Third place, Atlanta. Matt, should we take a listener question?

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah, this is a good one.

[Aaron Caro]

All right, we'll be right back.

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[Aaron Caro]

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[Matt Ritter]

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[Aaron Caro]

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[Matt Ritter]

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[Aaron Caro]

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[Matt Ritter]

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[Aaron Caro]

Payout via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days credits and balance due if you pay off earlier. Cancel ct mobile.com okay, guys, this is asking for a friend. If you have a friendship question or ethical dilemma, send it to us on Instagram. Our handle is at man of the Year podcast. We will answer on the show. Matthew, take it away.

[Matt Ritter]

So this actually this whole episode came from this listener question. Matt and Carol. I've been hearing a lot about the belonging centers and these friendship apps, but it feels weird to me to walk into a place specifically for strangers to meet. It feels like walking into AA and admitting I'm an alcoholic, when in reality I just feel like I'm missing a little bit of my friendship needs. Interesting.

[Aaron Caro]

Well, I mean, the whole point of these places is to just be able to walk in like that. So. But, but, but I. But I understand that. So the global question is like admitting you have a problem.

[Matt Ritter]

Right? Right. That's. That's the main thing that they're saying is, like, I don't want to admit that I. Like, I don't want to accept that I have a problem. Right? Like, I don't want to admit it, right? And like, and to me, that's like, hey, you're looking at it like it's a moral failing, you know, like, you're, you're defining it in the wrong way, right?

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah.

[Matt Ritter]

Like, your whole definition of AA is wrong too, right. If you're saying that, right? Like, yeah, people don't walk into aa, you know, feeling like they've accepted their. Some sort of stigma. They're saying, I want to get help. Right? I. I think it's eliminating the stigma. When you walk in there, you're saying, I, I know, I know this place will not stigmatize me, right? It's like, you, you're. You're. You don't want to make it harder to admit you need a connection, right? Like, we're basically saying, you can come in here, you don't have to say anything, right? It just. You walking in here, you don't have to, like, say, hey, I. You know, like, when you go to a gym, you don't have to say, hey, I want to get stronger. They know that, right?

[Aaron Caro]

Mm. So also, these things are optimized for exactly that kind of awkwardness. And I think actually some of the stuff that they do, they could use in the events that we go to. You know, there's going to be someone there, right, when you walk in, who's checking you in, get you the name tag, if that's what they do. It's not like you just wander into a room, like going to a party where you don't know anybody. There's. They actually have facilitators that make introductions. And, you know, everybody there is going through the same thing. So definitely a very. I understand the question, but, like, if you just, Even if you just need a little nourishment, like, you have friends, but you haven't seen them, they're out of town. It's been a minute. I think this is good.

[Matt Ritter]

Here's what I think. I think they're viewing this as the last stop, right? And I think, like, okay, fine. So you're saying this feels like an over correction, right? That's what they're saying. They're saying, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, I'm not walking into an effing belonging center, man. I have friends. Right? Like, that's, that's essentially like, what the vibe from that question is. Okay, fine. By the way, you Know what else is a belonging center? A kickball league, a run club, Any of the million things that we talked about. Those are all belonging centers. They're just under a different name because they don't, you know, they understand that people have a bit of a sort of hurdle going. Hey, I have no friends. I admit it. I need help. Right? So we have a million other things that you can do if you don't feel comfortable walking into a quote unquote place that is overtly saying here is the place. You know, you could go to a knitting club, man. You know, you go to a hiking group, you, you know, like you could just go to a WeWork. Which I did because I needed a belonging center at the time. I admit it. I admit it. I did it because I wanted to be more social. I. I wanted to make friends when.

[Aaron Caro]

I joined WeWork, just so we don't send people to the wrong place. It's Belong center, not Belonging Center. So. So one thing, you know, there's always.

[Matt Ritter]

Some scam company that like has a. You know, they'll immediately.

[Aaron Caro]

So I wanted to ask you about this. So two of the board members are the founders of Daybreaker. Have you ever heard of Daybreaker?

[Matt Ritter]

Is it like a coffee club party thing?

[Aaron Caro]

It's a. It's a morning non alcoholic rave.

[Matt Ritter]

Right, right, right. I've seen Instagram's all over it for that.

[Aaron Caro]

People love it.

[Matt Ritter]

I love coffee, but I like it quiet.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, well, I don't think has anything to do with. With coffee. I think it's not coffee related.

[Matt Ritter]

Oh, okay.

[Aaron Caro]

It's basically you. It's like a dance party that, you know, starts at 8am you go before work and you go dancing and you know, you let us in my 20s.

[Matt Ritter]

When I was in my 20s, I was all about those, like daytime. You know, there were a few of those.

[Aaron Caro]

No, you weren't. Because you're talking about going to boozy brunch.

[Matt Ritter]

No, talking about the ones that turned into a club though.

[Aaron Caro]

Right. But this is. I can't express enough that this is not. That this is. This is like a holistic. You're not partying. This is like during. This is on a Tuesday.

[Matt Ritter]

Oh, I don't know. Not for me.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah. Matt, I feel like your brain just broke in the past. Like you were doing so well all day and then your brain just broke. No.

[Matt Ritter]

Wait, no, but is. This isn't a daytime club kind of thing? Like.

[Aaron Caro]

No, no, it's like, it's like an all ages, like, you know, daytime. Like there's No, I don't think there's any alcohol.

[Matt Ritter]

No drugs.

[Aaron Caro]

You're thinking, Matthew, you're thinking of day drinking. This is something different.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah, I love day drinking.

[Aaron Caro]

Which by the way, as you know, day drinking is my favorite activity. I once, I once told a girl in a dating app, my fate, my hobbies are working out and day drinking. And she wanted to catch me.

[Matt Ritter]

By the way, I've been sober all 20, 25 so far.

[Aaron Caro]

Are you serious?

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

That'S, I don't know. I don't know how I feel about that. How do you feel?

[Matt Ritter]

Feel great.

[Aaron Caro]

Not a sip of alcohol.

[Matt Ritter]

Not a sip.

[Aaron Caro]

And when are you gonna end it?

[Matt Ritter]

Europe.

[Aaron Caro]

Got it. So you're gonna, you're gonna go six months, seven, eight months?

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

I mean, that's. So you're telling me you're not gonna have a drink with me on my birthday?

[Matt Ritter]

I didn't made a definitive line in the sand, but if you're gonna put a gun to my head, I, I, I might. But I gotta figure it out for our listeners.

[Aaron Caro]

Matt's face just like his realization of the events coming up over the next six months where she can't even drink. He just faced so sad. Listen, we don't want you to. At least when you're running for neighborhood council, you'd be like, I haven't had a drink. I'm not gonna drink on the job. You know my past. I've learned from my past.

[Matt Ritter]

That's right.

[Aaron Caro]

I'm a new man.

[Matt Ritter]

I think the point is, yes, obviously it feels weird because you're explicitly acknowledging something that we try not to explicitly acknowledge. But Carol and I are at the forefront of explicitly normalizing loneliness and normalizing that social health is as important. Right. We go to the gym for our physical health. We go to a therapist or Calm app for our mental health. So maybe for you a Belong center isn't the place, but maybe it's a. Listening to this pod. Maybe it's doing a, you know, a weekend run club. But it's an option and it's, it's there, it's available to people and the point is just to make it. This is not weird. You shouldn't, you don't need to feel embarrassed. We're, we're over that.

[Aaron Caro]

Matt, you know what you're really good at? You have articulated in the past that you, that you're feeling lonely.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

You know, there's nothing wrong. Then again, you're a married, married man of, of one, soon to be two. But you said, yeah, I Was lonely. Had a. This. This afternoon. I felt pretty lonely. I mean, I think it takes a lot of courage to say that.

[Matt Ritter]

Well, thank you. And I think it takes courage for our listener to admit that they're lonely, but at the same time, they're wrestling with these old feelings of, nobody's judging you, man. Nobody cares. To be honest. Nobody cares. Nobody's thinking about you. That's why you need the Belong Center.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, that's right. Spotlight bias. Everyone thinks the spotlight's on them, but nobody cares. By the way, Matt, also, what's the alternative? Just be lonely. Congratulations. Now, you know, what have you.

[Matt Ritter]

We haven't hit that in a while, Carol.

[Aaron Caro]

That's.

[Matt Ritter]

That's dead, right? What's the alternative? Keep doing what you're doing, man. Sounds like it's really working.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah. Yeah. You know, we've also talked about a couple hacks, you know, saying if. Let's say you have friends in another city, you know, saying, I'm in a funk. If you. If you need some help from them or asking people if you. If they know anyone in your town, you just move somewhere. You move to Cleveland, you ask your friends, hey, know anyone? Like, they'll be happy to introduce you, but you have to show up on time for the meeting.

[Matt Ritter]

Can't be 16 minute late for a new person.

[Aaron Caro]

Can't be 60 minute late. So I think we answered that question. And actually, I'd like to hear hope. Hopefully he does go to the Belong center or someplace else. I mean, to your point, I mean, walking into an equinox is. Is daunting. You know, walking into a coffee shop, Totally.

[Matt Ritter]

All of it.

[Aaron Caro]

You just.

[Matt Ritter]

You're alone at any of these places?

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah. All right, guys, I was asking for a friend. If you have a friendship question, send it to us on Instagram and we will answer it on the show. So, Matt, what did. What did we learn today about the loneliness economy?

[Matt Ritter]

Well, I think we learned we got to get our. We got to get it. We got to up our. Our game here. We got to get our own piece of this pie.

[Aaron Caro]

Oh, yeah.

[Matt Ritter]

We got to wet our beaks in the loneliness economy.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, well, we are going to, at some point, create an app. The two of us running another company. We need another What?

[Matt Ritter]

Another entity. We need another. Another business.

[Aaron Caro]

What we need is adult supervision. We need someone who knows what the f. They're doing.

[Matt Ritter]

That's right. That's it.

[Aaron Caro]

If you would like to be the CEO of me and Matt's company, please reach out.

[Matt Ritter]

Send a res.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, send a resi.

[Matt Ritter]

We might get some hits.

[Aaron Caro]

We. We should do that thing, you know when like. Well, you know when people like post on like, and there's a thousand requirements. Like you need 20 years of French, like, stuff that nobody has.

[Matt Ritter]

You need zero years experience.

[Aaron Caro]

Right? You need. You don't need to have any experience. You just know. Can you. Can you manage two best friends who have strong personalities, whose personalities also conflict with each other and probably won't listen to you if. If. So you're our man or woman and.

[Matt Ritter]

We'Re gonna gang up idea.

[Aaron Caro]

You know, that's probably the person who can play it's all relationship game sometimes.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah. I'm gonna say to the CEO, sometimes I'm gonna need you to gang up in Cairo with me.

[Aaron Caro]

Right?

[Matt Ritter]

Sometimes Carol's gonna gang up on me and sometimes me and Kiro. Most of the time me and Kira are gonna gang up on you. Can you handle that?

[Aaron Caro]

Oh, man. Oh man. Good luck. Good luck. And. And guys, we'd like to hear if you have. Have any interaction with any of these apps, these companies, or these belong centers, or if you've seen one of these benches. I'm obsessed with these benches.

[Matt Ritter]

We should.

[Aaron Caro]

We should buy one. Dude, when you get reelected, the neighborhood council, you're. You're doing a bench.

[Matt Ritter]

Implementing a bench. Yeah, but see, the thing is, Larmont is like historical preservation stuff. Like, I don't think we could put a modern, twisty bench. You know, it may not.

[Aaron Caro]

Do you have any public parks?

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah. Oh, in the park. That's a great idea.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, you should if there. By the way, if there's going to be a debate or a. Or a candidates night, please let me know because I will. I will not not be drinking.

[Matt Ritter]

Oh yeah, you will be asking questions from the back. Another public comment. Public comment section. First in line.

[Aaron Caro]

Oh, man. All right, guys. Thank you guys so much for listening. Always remember, be good to yourself. Be good to your friends. Love you, buddy.

[Matt Ritter]

Love you, buddy.

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