← Man of the Year - Champions of Friendship
Man of the Year - Champions of Friendship
#140 - Clique Bait
00:32:38
Friend groups can be a source of deep connection - or quiet chaos. This week, Karo and Matt dive into the subtle dynamics of cliques: how they form, why they last, and what happens when the group starts to shift. From loyalty tests to subgroup drama, we explore the pros, pitfalls, and politics of the friend group ecosystem. manoftheyearpodcast.com
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- [00:00]
Oregon Lottery Representative
In the summer, all of Oregon is our playground thanks to our incredible park system. That's why it's so cool that Oregon Lottery gameplay like video lottery or Cash Pop helps support tons of parks projects statewide like accessible trails at Silver Falls State park or upgrades to your favorite dog park in Newburgh. It's just one way a little lottery play for many Oregonians can add up to a lot of good the Oregon Lottery Together we do good things. Lottery games are based on chance and should be played for entertainment only. Must be 18 or older to play.
- [00:32]
OnDeck Representative
Building a business may feel like a big jump, but On Deck small business loans can help keep you afloat. With lines of credit up to $100,000 and term loans up to $250,000, OnDeck lets you choose the loan that's right for your business. As a top rated online small business lender, OnDeck's team of loan advisors can help you find the right business loan to fit your needs. Visit ondeck.com for more information. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by On Deck or Celtibank. On Deck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.
- [01:12]
Matt Ritter
Man of the Year man of the Year man of the Year welcome to the number one friendship podcast in the country. I'm Matt Ritter.
- [01:21]
Aaron Caro
I'm Aaron Caro.
- [01:23]
Matt Ritter
We are the Friendship Guys. We're here to help you make and maintain friendships that last. So thank you for those of you who have been listening to us for years now, and we're excited to have our new listeners. We always like to start off with a little bit of a rant. And here's mine. Spring break. If I were in charge of things, there would be one and it would be universal and it would go across all grade spectrums. And I think it would only last one week. That's my hot take.
- [01:55]
Aaron Caro
I think my rant is that Matt doesn't realize that we sometimes record our episodes in advance and that this will not be topical anymore.
- [02:05]
Matt Ritter
But you're completely wrong. Spring break is an evergreen, debatable topic. So you're 100% wrong about this.
- [02:12]
Aaron Caro
In January. In January, we're gonna talk about spring break.
- [02:17]
Matt Ritter
Everybody's in a huff about the varying holiday schedules for their children. It's.
- [02:25]
Aaron Caro
Oh, you're talking about children's spring break.
- [02:27]
Matt Ritter
Oh, yeah, that's what I'm talking.
- [02:30]
Aaron Caro
Matt lives in a very. Matt thinks that because he had a kid, everybody's had a kid who's ever lived.
- [02:35]
Matt Ritter
I think even though 75 of our list 75.
- [02:41]
Aaron Caro
You make up all the time.
- [02:44]
Matt Ritter
What do you think? What do you think the percentage of our listeners is? Kids versus not.
- [02:47]
Aaron Caro
I mean, what's the percentage of adults that have a kid?
- [02:50]
Matt Ritter
I have no idea. We gotta look that up.
- [02:52]
Aaron Caro
What percentage?
- [02:54]
Matt Ritter
Yeah, so Cairo, tune out then if you, if you don't find this relevant to you.
- [03:01]
Aaron Caro
70. Okay, 70.
- [03:03]
Matt Ritter
70. But the thing is, is that, you know, we try to get together or, or we could, you know, say Christmas break, holiday break, you know, I try to get together with my family, try to get them out here. They're like, well, my kids, you know, December 17th, my kids, December 24th. Okay, so I guess we can't get the family together. And then finally we figured out a way to work it all out. We're like, this has been going on for years. And then they switched it, you know, from that they were doing the last two weeks. Everybody was on that. And then they were like, oh, actually we're gonna switch it to now it's the Christmas week to the second week of January where everybody's working. And then for like high school, middle school, elementary school, everybody's like, oh, I can't go away because my kids are on three different spring breaks and my son just got out of a two week spring break where I was just like, this is just too long. I don't have anything I can do to entertain this guy. I'm working. So we need a national referendum. Look, okay, let's put it this way, Carol. Everybody makes a huff about something that doesn't matter to anybody really. Daylight saving time. And yet spring break matters to everybody in a way, way higher level. It affects their lives. Let's do a poll to our listeners. What affects your life more? Spring break being on different schedules or daylight savings time popping up when you're not ready for it?
- [04:26]
Aaron Caro
I mean, once again, you just made an outrageous comment. You think spring break. What about people whose kids are grown? Our parents don't care about spring break. I mean, you have a tiny sliver of parents of little kids. Daylight savings expect affects everyone from man to beast, you maniac. Also, some people just like to watch the world burn. Can you imagine 5 million people on break at the same time? The airports would be packed, the beaches would be destroyed.
- [04:55]
Matt Ritter
Carol, by the way, you just said it doesn't affect your parents, I guarantee it affects them. When suddenly at their timeshare, everybody on spring break shows up.
- [05:02]
Aaron Caro
Now, my timeshare is not like that. You know, it's very, it's very, you know, you Can't. You can't. There's only one level of occupancy full.
- [05:09]
Matt Ritter
Oh, all right. They can't break in the spring breakers. Can't break into it.
- [05:13]
Aaron Caro
Yeah, I don't think anyone. Any spring break in Panama City is breaking into Aruba.
- [05:17]
Matt Ritter
Anyway. This was the first year that spring break really jammed me up.
- [05:21]
Aaron Caro
Oh, the first year, really? So the past 40 years of your life, it didn't affect you, you psycho?
- [05:26]
Matt Ritter
No, we. First of all, no need to curse on our pod. We don't curse, Matt.
- [05:31]
Aaron Caro
Second of all, you riled me up from the jump.
- [05:34]
Matt Ritter
Second of all, we went to public school where they give you a day and a half off to go play with some potatoes in a park.
- [05:43]
Aaron Caro
Oh, you just. You just made me hearken back to the early days of the pod when Matt really. He would yell at me for cursing. I stopped cursing for about six months. And then, Matt, I can't believe this.
- [05:52]
Matt Ritter
I can't believe spring break brought back. Anyway, this is not a smooth transition to our topic, but one other thing that has been coming up a lot from our listeners and just generally conversationally, you know, I always kind of try to street test what we should talk about. And one topic that keeps coming up, we actually had somebody from Canada ask us about it recently, if you recall, for an upcoming hit press hit that we're going to do was dealing with clicks. Right. This is something I think you would agree. We get this question a lot of, you know, how do you navigate clicks? How do you deal with competing clicks? How do you break into a clique? What happens when a group starts to fracture? You know, it's. There's an endless supply of issues, and I think that that's just something we haven't really delved into enough on the pod. So I wanted to just start with, you know, maybe, like, how do you even define a friend group? Because it's amorphous, right? That's a crew. Like, how do you know. Obviously, we have a high school crew and we have a trophy, but let's get back to the basics. Like, what even defines a friend group, by the way?
- [07:07]
Aaron Caro
Our high school crew was famously called.
- [07:10]
Matt Ritter
The crew so Creative. That was before Kira became the title pun master.
- [07:16]
Aaron Caro
I know now would be like, you know, Bohemian Rhapsody or something.
- [07:20]
Matt Ritter
Oh, that's pretty good.
- [07:21]
Aaron Caro
Oh, that's not bad, Matt. It's so funny because when we were doing that interview, we were throwing around the term Matt friend group. Wait, are you drinking out of a coffee mug that has a coaster attached to it?
- [07:35]
Matt Ritter
No, it just has a coaster shaped bottom so that it could slide nicely onto a coaster better.
- [07:40]
Aaron Caro
Okay. Yes.
- [07:41]
Matt Ritter
It's a Jesse original. It's got a cool bottom. So it's, it sits nicer on the coaster.
- [07:49]
Aaron Caro
I mean, because why don't they make mugs with coasters in the bottom?
- [07:53]
Matt Ritter
I don't know. It's still.
- [07:53]
Aaron Caro
I think that might have been the Seinfeld episode. So we were doing that interview and we were, we, me and you were bandying about friend group. Oh, our friend group does this, I think of that. And she goes very politely, very Canadian. She's like, well, what is a friend group? What do you, what do you mean, friend group? How do I become in a friend group?
- [08:08]
Matt Ritter
Right.
- [08:10]
Aaron Caro
So I would say that a friend group is a sort of a naturally forming subsection of your larger social universe. So you can be in multiple friend groups. They can overlap like Venn diagrams. And that would be sort of a, a smaller group with a shared interest or background that you do certain things with.
- [08:34]
Matt Ritter
And I guess the question is then, you know, can, you know, can you have overlapping. You know, I guess it's sort of like, you know, when you say, like, is it healthy to define your friend groups? You know, that's the question, right? Is it healthy for you to define your friend groups? And is that alienating? Is that making people feel included? Like, what are the pros and cons of going, this is my friend group. These people.
- [09:00]
Aaron Caro
It's pretty interesting. And you can have multiple friend groups and you could be a part of multiple friend groups. You know, it is, Matt, it's kind of a competing argument because we tell our listeners to ritualize the rituals. And for our new listeners, you know, if you have a tradition or you have a friend group, we say, give it a name, give it a group chat. Matt made hats for one of his friend groups. And you're also asking Matt is like, oh, is that alienating to people? Not in the friend group? Which is pretty interesting. I don't think we've ever talked about that.
- [09:33]
Matt Ritter
So I want to get into that in a listener question later. But I guess I wanted to say my take is that it's healthy for you to want to protect your friend group. It's healthy for you to have a bit of a defensiveness, a, you know, kind of instinct to go, this is my friend group. And, you know, it's a part of your identity. So I think it's healthy for you to identify with and it makes you closer to people when you go, we are a unit Right. So that's. First and foremost, I think. I think it's healthy to have a friend group and have an identity and to feel passionately that that is you guys. That's separate from whether or not it's like. I guess we should get into whether it should be a closed ecosystem or it should be open and malleable. That's the question, right? Should. Should a friend group be fluid? I think that's really the core of what a lot of the questions that we get and a lot of the convos we have is, should it be fluid? How do I know when to open it, close it, break it off, all of these things.
- [10:41]
Aaron Caro
Just going back one step. Yes. One of the benefits is it makes your friendship sticky, stickier. Something we talk about which is less likely to break apart because you've got hats, you've got a name, you've got a group.
- [10:55]
Matt Ritter
I think maybe that's right. No, that's right. I mean, I think, you know, what I'm learning now is, you know, my. What I'm learning now, for example, is my farmer's Market gang. We have a text chain called the Farmer's Market Gang, and it's a very defined group. And every Sunday, I feel responsible to at least check in. I don't have to go every Sunday, but I feel responsible to respond to the text where it's like, who's going to. Who's coming to Groundworks on Sunday morning? Right. Our Luger's chain. It's not just about the dinner. We have a text group. I feel responsible to, you know, be in communication with everyone in that group, because it's a defined group that I am a member of. Right, you're a member. That means you have a responsibility to that group. You're accountable to that group. So I think it's great to have a defined click or friend crew, and I think it's something that people should take pride in.
- [12:00]
Aaron Caro
I think the definition of a friend group is that there are some barriers to entry, like a. Like a business, you know, like if. If everyone. Yeah, I mean, I would say, you know, I think it's clear me, you, Jeff, and Fireball Adam are a friend group.
- [12:16]
Matt Ritter
Absolutely, we are.
- [12:18]
Aaron Caro
We. We call ourselves the White Collar Boys. Who. Who. Who came. I think. I think maybe I came up with that. It doesn't really mean anything, but hilarious.
- [12:26]
Matt Ritter
Because we're also on another chat with JMC called the Blue Collar Boys.
- [12:29]
Aaron Caro
That one came first. I think we were joking. And then I. Then I created White Collar Boys. But, you know, I don't think it would be pretty. Kate, can you imagine a fifth person coming into that group? And we have some honorary members like Newman and Seinfeld.
- [12:43]
Matt Ritter
It's, it's funny how that works because in certain friend groups that I have, like for example, my farmers market crew, I could see, you know, some other parents kind of making their way into that crew. Right. For our four person group here, I, I, I would find it hard to see how somebody would become a member of that group. Now, now that doesn't mean that our other friends aren't becoming friends with all these people and that we haven't expanded, you know, our friendships, but we haven't expanded that specific circle because that circle has sort of a very specific dynamic and a four person dynamic with guys. It's a great dynamic too.
- [13:27]
Aaron Caro
Yeah. We're also, we're not like super exclusive. Like we don't, won't do stuff with other people, won't hang out with other people. We have text change other people that, that just, I think it would be interesting to, to, to, to talk about how we even came, how did that, even those four crystallize And I think.
- [13:47]
Matt Ritter
That'S repetitive hanging out. There's a consistency to it. Then there becomes the inside jokes, the fluidity, the vulnerability, the honesty, the making fun of each other, the ganging up on each other. At times it's starting rituals together. But I think once you have a really established crew, I also think it's normal to have sort of spin offs. And so I do think we have like, if you want to use TV lingo, like, we do have like spin offs and offshoots and sort of, you know, tangential things that are a little bit like larger or sometimes there are smaller versions of it within many of our crews. Like if you take our lugers crew too, there's multiple like little subgroups.
- [14:41]
Aaron Caro
You and I are on two subgroups that don't overlap.
- [14:45]
Matt Ritter
Right. So what does that say? Right, so what does that say? I guess I wanted to get into what does that say? Is that healthy? Is that okay? Should you, Should I feel jealous that I'm not on some subgroup? You know, I guess that's the question because we get a lot of people coming to us going, hey, I'm in a friend group, I'm in a friend group, but these guys have a subgroup that I'm not in. And like, what's that about? Right? People are like feeling excluded when they're already included.
- [15:09]
Aaron Caro
Right? That's the key, that's the key term is excluded. That, that, that, that's, that's the crux of it. If someone is feeling excluded now, are they feeling excluded because they wish they were part of this group that they probably shouldn't be? Are they feeling excluded because the people in the group are kind of being insular and dicks for some reason? Or is that just a natural? Or you just haven't found your group?
- [15:36]
Matt Ritter
Should we get into our listener question because it does hit this.
- [15:41]
Aaron Caro
We'll be right back.
- [15:43]
Oregon Lottery Representative
In the summer, all of Oregon is our playground thanks to our incredible park system. That's why it's so cool that Oregon Lottery gameplay like video lottery or cash pop helps support tons of park parks projects statewide, like accessible trails at Silver Falls State park or upgrades to your favorite dog park in Newburgh. It's just one way a little lottery play for many Oregonians can add up to a lot of good the Oregon Lottery. Together we do good things. Lottery games are based on chance and should be played for entertainment only. Must be 18 or older to play.
- [16:14]
OnDeck Representative
Building a business may feel like a big jump, but On Deck small business loans can help keep you afloat. With lines of credit up to $100,000 and term loans up to $250,000, OnDeck lets you choose the loan that's right for your business. As a top rated online small business lender, Ondeck's team of loan advisors can help you find the right business loan to fit your needs. Visit ondeck.com for more information. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by Ondeck or Celtic Bank. On Deck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.
- [16:46]
Aaron Caro
Okay, guys, this is asking for a friend. Our marquee segment. If you have a friendship question or ethical dilemma, send it to us on Instagram. Our handle is at man of the Year podcast. We listen, we listen, we read all the questions and we will answer on the show. And we can anonymize it if you would like. Matt, take it away.
- [17:05]
Matt Ritter
Hey, Matt and Caro. I met this group of guys through my work friend years ago. They've all been friends for decades, but I honestly feel like part of the crew every time I'm with them. Them. I wish they invited me to more stuff, but I cannot seem to crack the inner circle. What should I do?
- [17:30]
Aaron Caro
You're trying to crack into another friend group? Well, this, this is, this is an interesting one. I feel like usually something negative is happening. This seems like a positive all around. They like the guy. The guy wants to get into the group. I mean.
- [17:53]
Matt Ritter
That's right. That's right. You know, and you know what, this happens all the time, right? We just. That's why I was like, let's get to the listener question. Because this is a, an extremely common new guy syndrome, right? Classic friend purgatory, I'd call it. You're not an outsider, but you're not fully in. I think we've all been. I've been there in groups. I've definitely been there in my life. So first of all, I would say what you just said, like, this is a win, right? You've cracked the shell of a decades long crew. Kudos, buddy. Kudos. Right? Can you just imagine somebody cracking? You know, it's like some of our friends have cracked into the Luger's crew. Right? Like they're not in the Luger's crew, but they get to hang out except.
- [18:41]
Aaron Caro
With one disastrous example of a real someone when my friend Chi cracked in there.
- [18:46]
Matt Ritter
Right? Yes. But my point is, is that like you're already in on some level, right? You're in a new crew, right? This. You're not in their crew, right? Right. You're not, you're not in their inner circle. You're. You're probably never going to be in their inner circle. What do you think about me just calling a spade a spade? You're. You're never gonna be in their inner, inner circles.
- [19:10]
Aaron Caro
I may be, but one thing I would try is to be the friend, right? That is our marquee piece of advice, which is not waiting for other things to happen to you. And be the friend. Organize a party or an event or a trip for this crew. And they're gonna be like, hey, Jim, like this guy is awesome. Like, let's add you to the group chat or, or whatever. I. Let me just answer what you were saying, Matt. In some respect, it's physically impossible to join a long time crew, let's say our crew. Like it's metaphysically impossible. Because if you meet someone at 45, well, I've known you since second grade. So that's just not, that's just not what the crew is about.
- [19:57]
Matt Ritter
Correct. This crew is about having 30 plus years of nostalgia together.
- [20:04]
Aaron Caro
Yeah.
- [20:04]
Matt Ritter
Right. What you have can be equally fun and vulnerable and true and authentic. But it won't be that. Right? That's okay. And that's okay. Right. But I like what you said. It's kind of like you could actually create a whole separate crew that involves some of them or all of them, and that's a different new crew. Right? Like you said, you could start a new group, chat with these guys, and that's the foundations of your new crew. And you can invite them to something you're starting right? With these guys. What do you like to do with them? Where have you seen them? What do they enjoy doing? Are you watching basketball with them? So start inviting a couple of them to something casual, see who shows. That'll be self selecting. And maybe you're starting to build a new kind of crew with them. Right, Right. And who's the glue guy of that group? Who's the connector of that group? Is it if it's not your friend, who's, you know, if you're, if you feel your friend is being slightly exclusionary or maybe just doesn't think about it enough, maybe there's other people if you're feeling good about them, like get their digits.
- [21:16]
Aaron Caro
I have a, I have a, I have a mat special.
- [21:18]
Matt Ritter
Yeah, right.
- [21:19]
Aaron Caro
We, we like to sort of flip the pov. Why would these other guys want to make you part of the friend group? I'm. I'm asking. You should be asking yourself. These guys aren't sitting around being like, hey, you know, Jimmy that we hung out with a few times? Like what? They're not thinking about this.
- [21:40]
Matt Ritter
That's right. Because their crew doesn't need anything.
- [21:44]
Aaron Caro
Or maybe they don't know that they need anything. But yeah, but yes.
- [21:47]
Matt Ritter
Yeah. I mean, a lot of these decades long crews that are awesome and fun to hang out with, it's because like they're a complete, healthy, awesome dynamic. Nope. Of course you want to be part of that. Right?
- [22:00]
Aaron Caro
Right. Who wouldn't? Who wouldn't? But I'm just saying they're not, they're not sitting around thinking about your membership of the.
- [22:06]
Matt Ritter
Yeah.
- [22:06]
Aaron Caro
Of the friend group. So either you got to make them think about it by being undeniable.
- [22:11]
Matt Ritter
Right.
- [22:12]
Aaron Caro
Or create a subgroup like you said.
- [22:14]
Matt Ritter
Right. But Kazo, a part of this truth, right, Is maybe you'll never get in there, but you won't get in immediately. Right? I mean, you know, you were, you were jokingly like, hey, is there, you know, like barrier to entry? Like, yeah, time is a barrier to entry for sure. No.
- [22:34]
Aaron Caro
Yeah. Well, let me, let me give you a hypothetical that's based on this question. Let's say you move to Milwaukee and your friend, you have a mutual friend and you meet this guy who lives there. He's the only person you know. He's great. You hit it off.
- [22:47]
Matt Ritter
You.
- [22:47]
Aaron Caro
He's got a high school crew. It's sort of A, you're never going to be in that high school crew. You want to be invited when they, you know, go watch football. But, like, they have a crew, so they don't. Those other guys don't care about you.
- [23:02]
Matt Ritter
No, they do not. And so unless you make individual relationships with a few of them at a time, connect. I mean, it's going to be a slow build. And, you know, if you really want to do it, it's going to be a slow build. You're going to have to snipe them off one by one, getting them to like you. Right. Or in smaller groups. Right. And, like, what? You said, be the friend. Like, if you got four tickets to something cool, like, tell your buddy, hey, why don't you bring to your high school dudes? I like those guys. I want to hang out with them more. I mean, I think you also could be open and honest with your buddy, you know, of like, hey, man. Because he could set the boundary. Right? Here's what you could do. Let's just say you put yourself in that guy's shoes. You could do two things. You could just be like, yeah, you know, I'm not going to, like, bring him into my high school thing. It's weird. It's uncomfortable. But if it actually is comfortable and he is getting along with everybody, you know, you could pick and choose a few things that you could bring this guy along to.
- [23:57]
Aaron Caro
You know, I've realized I have done this once in my life and that I broke into best friend Mike's crew. You know, the Drew and Matt and Eric and those guys. Yeah. And that was just kind of like.
- [24:09]
Matt Ritter
That's true.
- [24:12]
Aaron Caro
Being at events in. Invited by best friend Mike, but then spending time getting to know his friends.
- [24:22]
Matt Ritter
Right, right. And how long would that. Would you say that took? You know, how many times from.
- [24:29]
Aaron Caro
From meeting him to getting on. Getting on group chat? 10 years.
- [24:35]
Matt Ritter
Right, right, right, right. 10 years. It took you 10 years to break into a guy that you're already close with his crew?
- [24:49]
Aaron Caro
I never really thought about this, to be honest.
- [24:52]
Matt Ritter
Ten years.
- [24:57]
Aaron Caro
You know, I think. But Matt, I think you would attest, like, but I'm also part of other friend crews, so that wasn't like, I. I worry the listener doesn't have anybody else. So he's like, well, if I can't get into this, what am I gonna do?
- [25:10]
Matt Ritter
Right? You didn't need it. Which also, people smell, right? The perfume called O de Desperation.
- [25:18]
Aaron Caro
Oh, I thought you meant the other way, that I was sort of, you know, just. Jason Bateman says Sexy indifference.
- [25:24]
Matt Ritter
No, that's what I'm saying. You did have that. But I'm talking about our listener.
- [25:27]
Aaron Caro
Oh, got it. Yes, yes, yes.
- [25:29]
Matt Ritter
If you have that scent of desperation.
- [25:32]
Aaron Caro
Right.
- [25:32]
Matt Ritter
It just makes it so much harder to crack into a pre existing crew.
- [25:37]
Aaron Caro
You know, there's no, there's nothing anybody loves more than someone who's got better things to do than hang out with you. You're like, you're like, whoa, let's.
- [25:43]
Matt Ritter
That's right.
- [25:44]
Aaron Caro
That was a triple negative.
- [25:45]
Matt Ritter
I think this reminds me of one of the funniest things that happened when we were in high school. I forget who was at my house. I don't think you were. I don't think you were there at the time. Time. But we were signing each other's yearbooks, remember? That was a thing.
- [25:57]
Aaron Caro
Yeah.
- [25:58]
Matt Ritter
Anyway, we had this kid that was not in our inner circle, but you know, we were hanging out with him and we're doing this kind of intimate thing, kind of like waiting for him to, to leave because we're signing each other yearbook, you know, like, hey, if I signed his yearbook, it was probably like, hey, good to see you, buddy. Like, it was great hanging out with you. Yeah. You know, ours were like these emotional weepy testimonials to each other that dated back second grade. And all of a sudden while we're signing the yearbooks and it's kind of awkward because he's not like involved in it. He's just kind of sitting there. He goes, just like old times, huh?
- [26:34]
Aaron Caro
Can you say who it was?
- [26:36]
Matt Ritter
No, I don't want to say. I'll tell you offline, but just one of those moments where you're like old times that we haven't had with you. Right. So I think also you don't want to be forcing your way into a 30 year old crew when they're in that like moment. You have to pick the moments. Right. If they're in the full on nostalgia like hang mindset, you don't belong there.
- [27:04]
Aaron Caro
I have it. When we're done with the question, I have an amazing friend group tradition to tell you about.
- [27:09]
Matt Ritter
I think we, I think, I think we, I think we answered it essentially was acknowledge your reality, which is you're never going to break into it in the same way that everybody else is in it. But they already are giving you license to kind of be and create a new breakoff crew if you want. If that feels right to you. Right. And it's going to take time and it's going to take you not being desperate to Be in it. And it's going to take you starting maybe some new rituals with some of these guys that you like and figuring out who the glue guy is. But look, I, I wish you luck. Cairo did it. After 10 years, we've got a timeline, time horizon for you.
- [27:50]
Aaron Caro
And by the way, it's very fruitful and I love those guys.
- [27:53]
Matt Ritter
Yeah. And, and look, this is just part of life and it happens to all of us. So. But congrats on them, you know, or you've already done a lot of work.
- [28:03]
Aaron Caro
All right, guys, that was asking for a friend. If you have a friendship question, send it to us on Instagram. So, Matt, I have a friend named Ara Zoo. You met her once, I think Israel with her.
- [28:14]
Matt Ritter
Yes.
- [28:14]
Aaron Caro
She's younger, she's early 30s, LA native. And she invited me to her. She had a birthday party this week. It was pretty, pretty lowkey. But her, her friend crew was there and they're early 30s, so they're all getting married and, and, and do. Do the thing. So when they go to a wedding, okay, they start a note, a joint notes app, and they write. Each of them write down funny things that happen, like mysteries, questions. Who was that person? Can you believe it? And then they brought me into this. I went with them back to one of their apartments. This is a week after the wedding. They write, they take the notes app and they write it onto a giant, I don't know, easel.
- [28:56]
Matt Ritter
I love this.
- [28:57]
Aaron Caro
And they go through each one and they just talk shit and they tell. Can you remember when her bosses did. Her boss jumped on the table and, you know, they hooked up with each other and it was hilarious. They call it the postmortem.
- [29:09]
Matt Ritter
I'm so pissed that the only wedding I have left is yours and other people's second marriages. It's never going to be the same.
- [29:18]
Aaron Caro
We should definitely do that for mine. But like, they were just. And I was like, to your point, from the listener question of like you're part of another person's group and you know, you have to respect their. How far they go back. I was kind of flying on the fly on the walling it a little bit. Like they were doing stuff and they were like speaking in. Is it Farsi? I don't even know. There was like going real deep, you know, playing voice memos and showing pictures. They, they rented. Let me just tell you this because this is such thing something you and Jess would do. They rented, you know, the, the street signs, that digital sign, you know, detour that are on like tires and like, are on the side of the 405 to, like, get people to. They rented that and they put it in front of the venue with the sign that they. That they programmed into it. And it was like, they didn't get permits or anything. So they bought construction vests, the bride and groom, but put cones out, rolled this thing, block the lane in front of the venue.
- [30:24]
Matt Ritter
Genius. So they could get everybody in without any traffic issues.
- [30:30]
Aaron Caro
Yes, yes. And also said, like, congrats. And then you appreciate this because overnight, someone. Some. It's la. Someone broke into the thing and changed all the lights.
- [30:41]
Matt Ritter
Of course. Yeah. So can I ask you a question? I. You know, I think we would acknowledge I'm an extrovert. I seem comfortable in most settings. There's two settings I feel very uncomfortable in. One is when I'm sober and people are drunk or high. I want to be there. I. I don't enjoy it.
- [31:02]
Aaron Caro
Yeah.
- [31:03]
Matt Ritter
Two is when I have overstayed in a close crew and they're really in the inner inside baseball convo, and I'm flying the walling it like you're talking about. That makes me feel very uncomfortable. That's, like, my cue to leave.
- [31:20]
Aaron Caro
Are you internalizing something that may not be true?
- [31:24]
Matt Ritter
I don't know. I just. To me, I'm always just like, all right, I don't know these people. I don't know what they're talking about. I'm gonna go.
- [31:32]
Aaron Caro
Right.
- [31:34]
Matt Ritter
But I guess you don't. You didn't have any of those feelings in your. In that moment. You weren't like, I don't want to be here.
- [31:39]
Aaron Caro
This was a very inclusive.
- [31:42]
Matt Ritter
Yeah.
- [31:43]
Aaron Caro
I met all her friends one time. One year ago, her last birthday, everyone came up to me. Give me a hug. I didn't even remember who anybody was.
- [31:52]
Matt Ritter
This just happened to me. Jess told me that, like, I went to her friend Ashley's wedding, and I didn't know the guys from Virginia, all these Southern guys. I didn't know any of them. I was like, we knew very few people at this wedding. So I, you know, like, I guess I didn't display it, but I felt a little bit like, oh, this is not my. I'm not in my zone. I'm gonna, like, hang back and whatever, talk to some people here and there. Jesse was. Ashley was like, everybody loved you. These guys loved you. I'm like, it's nice to hear, you know, because you do. I. I think sometimes you do internalize. Like, oh, man, I'm so out of place here.
- [32:27]
Aaron Caro
Yeah. I mean, sometimes I'VE been in those inner sanctum conversations where they're, you're kind of being excluded, like, even the body.
- [32:34]
Matt Ritter
Language there, they're not like, they're just, they don't care about you. They're not doing it to be rude. They just don't care. They're so deep in this 30 year look back at something or, you know, gossip about somebody that you don't know, they know you don't know. Occasionally at the beginning, they will try to include you. But if they're really trying to have the flow of the convo, it's impossible to be like, oh, and by the way, this is somebody from second grade that, you know, mom was a teacher.
- [32:57]
Aaron Caro
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Like, what's the word? Like doing a little Cliff Notes of like a footnote of like, oh, this person, like, they don't want to bother with that shit. That's the point of a friend group.
- [33:06]
Matt Ritter
Right, right, exactly. You have shorthand. You don't need to do the long head. Short.
- [33:10]
Aaron Caro
Shorthand, That's a great word. That's a great word.
- [33:13]
Matt Ritter
Friend groups have shorthand. Right? That's, that's just what it is. Friend groups have shorthand and you're not going to know the shorthand. You may learn it over time, but it's a very hard thing to really understand everything about a friend group that goes back 30 years.
- [33:29]
Aaron Caro
So I want to, I want to close with, with a quick call to action to our friends, to our listeners, and also to you, Matt. If you're part of a friend group that doesn't have a name, I want you guys to name it. Like, change the group chat name. Just start calling yourselves that, Matt. And to you, I want you to come up with a better name for Farmers Market Gang.
- [33:52]
Matt Ritter
Okay?
- [33:53]
Aaron Caro
We can beat that next week. Yeah, I think, I think we could beat that.
- [33:57]
Matt Ritter
Okay. All right. I mean, what if they're like, oh, like, no, we love the Farmers Market Gang.
- [34:02]
Aaron Caro
Well, I, you're, you're, you started it, right?
- [34:05]
Matt Ritter
Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right.
- [34:07]
Aaron Caro
You're the captain.
- [34:08]
Matt Ritter
Yeah, yeah, that's true. All right, well, I thought this was hopefully helpful. So as I said, you know, if you're, if you were new here, this is what we do. You know, we, we try to pick a topic that is useful that we're getting back feedback from the world about for friendship. And we're just trying to make it a little bit easier, you know, to either make or maintain friendships. So, you know, one day at a time, we're, we're worried about your social health. We think that's as important as your physical or mental health.
- [34:35]
Aaron Caro
I love it. Thanks so much for listening. Always remember, be good to yourself. Be good to your friends. Hey, Matt. Love you, buddy.
- [34:41]
Matt Ritter
Love you, buddy.