#143 - Physical Intimacy

Summary

Podcast Summary: Episode #143 - Physical Intimacy

Title: Man of the Year - Champions of Friendship
Hosts: Matt Ritter and Aaron Karo
Release Date: August 5, 2025
Episode: #143 - Physical Intimacy
Description: In this episode, Matt Ritter and Aaron Karo delve into the role of physical intimacy in friendships. They explore cultural norms, personal boundaries, and provide practical advice on navigating differences in how friends express affection.

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1. Introduction to Physical Intimacy in Friendships

The episode kicks off with Aaron expressing his frustration with summer and the challenges of using suntan lotion, leading naturally into the broader topic of physical intimacy among friends.

Aaron Karo [06:04]:

"Now, you just had what you called, like, I think you called it the hug of the century or something like that."

2. The Importance of Physical Connection

Matt shares his recent experience at a reunion where he received heartfelt bear hugs from old friends, underscoring the significance of physical touch in conveying deep emotions and connection.

Matt Ritter [07:02]:

"I just was at my reunion and actually two of my law school buddies, two of the best huggers I've ever met... It's almost like we should have been crying."

The hosts discuss how these physical gestures enhance feelings of trust, safety, and compassion within friendships.

3. Cultural Differences and Norms

The conversation shifts to cultural variations in physical greetings, such as the number of cheek kisses during a greeting. Matt humorously exaggerates the number to highlight the absurdity of differing norms.

Matt Ritter [08:40]:

"There are places that kiss 16 kisses for a four-person brunch. A two-minute kiss festival."

Aaron adds his perspective on the complexity of varying cultural practices.

Aaron Karo [08:46]:

"To me, over two kisses, going back to the same cheek is bananas."

4. Navigating Personal Boundaries

Aaron recounts an experience with children where unsolicited hugs were not well-received, emphasizing the evolving societal expectation to ask for consent before initiating physical contact.

Aaron Karo [10:15]:

"I was just with Lindsay's kids and I gave one of them a hug and they kind of didn't like it. And Lindsay's like, no, you have to ask because we're teaching them that they need to ask."

5. Listener Question: Balancing Different Affection Styles

The episode features a listener question addressing the discomfort one might feel when a friend expresses affection primarily through physical touch, while the listener prefers emotional closeness.

Listener's Question [17:00]:

"Physical affection has never come easily to me... How do I navigate this difference in how we connect without offending him or harming the closeness of our friendship?"

Matt Ritter [18:19]:

"It's totally normal for people to have different styles... You want to be able to be vulnerable with each other."

Aaron Karo [21:24]:

"You got to do a compliment sandwich. So you go, oh, dude, I love hanging out... Can we maybe not punch me so much?"

They advocate for open and honest communication, suggesting approaches like humor and setting boundaries to maintain the friendship without compromising personal comfort.

6. Addressing Masculinity and Physical Affection

The hosts discuss societal perceptions that equate physical affection among men with questions about masculinity or sexual orientation. They aim to dispel these notions by highlighting the platonic nature of such interactions.

Matt Ritter [28:09]:

"In the olden times, physical intimacy was part and parcel of male friendship... it had nothing to do with sexuality."

Aaron Karo [29:22]:

"Physical intimacy with your buddies... has no meaning besides that."

7. Practical Strategies for Friends with Different Affection Styles

Matt and Aaron offer actionable advice for listeners facing similar challenges. They suggest creating new forms of physical greetings, such as unique handshakes or fist bumps, to respect individual boundaries while maintaining connection.

Aaron Karo [25:27]:

"Can we do a fist bump? Are you okay with a Bash Brothers thing?"

Matt Ritter [26:03]:

"The people who don't handshake do that too. They've created a style."

They emphasize the importance of respecting each other's comfort zones and finding middle ground to ensure that all friends feel valued and understood.

8. Final Thoughts: Embracing Diverse Forms of Connection

As the episode wraps up, the hosts reflect on the evolution of their own comfort with physical intimacy and encourage listeners to explore and embrace the ways that best suit their friendships.

Matt Ritter [31:50]:

"I personally love the physical connection between friendships and I've grown to love it... Our friends who said they never hugged, it sounds like they still have a very healthy, intimate relationship."

Aaron Karo [32:31]:

"Guys, hug your bros and let us know how it goes."

They conclude with a call to action, urging listeners to experiment with their expressions of affection and to communicate openly with their friends to foster stronger, more fulfilling relationships.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Aaron Karo [21:47]:

  "You go, oh, dude, I love hanging out. It's just so fun. We got to keep doing this. Can we maybe not punch me so much?"

• Matt Ritter [26:13]:

  "Why did my forehead say Flavortown."

• Matt Ritter [31:18]:

  "I think you can connect with varying degrees of physical intimacy."

---

Conclusion

In Episode #143, Matt Ritter and Aaron Karo thoughtfully explore the nuances of physical intimacy in friendships. They balance humor with sincere insights, addressing common challenges and providing listeners with practical tools to enhance their social connections. By acknowledging diverse comfort levels and advocating for open communication, the hosts empower friends to navigate their relationships with empathy and respect.

Transcript

[Customer]

Morning. One sausage McMuffin with egg, please.

[Cashier]

Okay, your total is.

[Matt Ritter]

Wait.

[Customer]

Let's negotiate. How's about you throw in hash browns for a dollar?

[Cashier]

Well, yes, sir. That price is already a dollar.

[Customer]

Take it or leave it.

[Cashier]

Take it, I guess.

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[Aaron Caro]

Welcome to the number one friendship podcast in the country. I'm Aaron Caro.

[Matt Ritter]

I'm Matt Ritter.

[Aaron Caro]

And make sure to go to manoftheerepodcast.com to grab our merch and watch our videos on YouTube. If you're new here, we are your CFOs Chief Friendship Officers. But, Matt, before we get into the friendship, I have a rant against the sun. The sun. Okay, it's. It's summer. And. And I can't stand the fact that we have to put suntan lotion on whenever we go. Have any exposure to the sun. Is there. Is there not a better system than smearing ourselves with this disgusting liquid that stains everything that smells. Half the time it doesn't work. You have handprints. You have, you know, an armpit that gets burned. Oh, and by the way, if you don't do it right, you die. Like, is. Is there no better system than suntan lotion?

[Matt Ritter]

Oh, my God. You know what? You know that there's like a huge. Not just tick tock everywhere about, like, whether sunscreen even works.

[Aaron Caro]

Well, some of it doesn't actually work.

[Matt Ritter]

Right.

[Aaron Caro]

But there's tick tockers who say, don't use it, who are insane.

[Matt Ritter]

Here's the thing. I love this take because actually, I got mad at my mom because she smeared sun sand lotion on the side of our new car.

[Guest]

I mean, how.

[Matt Ritter]

She was. Because she was. She was lubing up Brenner. In the car?

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, in the car.

[Guest]

Oh, God.

[Aaron Caro]

That's unacceptable.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah, totally unacceptable. First of all, it's unacceptable that suntan lotion will ruin cars.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

It ruins everything.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah. It ruins everything. Yeah. I think it's more that it's unacceptable, that it ruins everything.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Matt Ritter]

That's the worst part about sunblock, that it ruins it. But also the flip side is I. Do you wear sunblock every day when you go outside? No. I don't either.

[Guest]

No.

[Matt Ritter]

Like, some people wear sunblock. Like, I think you need exposure to the sun, healthy exposure. You need vitamin D every day.

[Aaron Caro]

I mean, I, I. About six months ago, I went down a rabbit hole on this very question, Matt. I was googling like, oh, if I work in an office or I work from home, do I need to wear suntan lotion? And they were like, yes, because you're near a window. And I'm like, I'm not putting suntan lotion on.

[Matt Ritter]

That's insane. Indoor suntan users.

[Aaron Caro]

Well, you get it. You buy the moisturizer that has it in it. I guess, yeah.

[Matt Ritter]

Did you go through the rabbit hole about how it's like a hormone disruptor and it's changing our entire, like, species?

[Aaron Caro]

No. No. Are we all, like, growing. Gonna grow horns and like that?

[Matt Ritter]

I don't want to go down that rabbit hole. But I've been there. I mean, post 2:00am Right? If you're awake, you're either figuring out what the, like, crop circles are. Who built the pyramids. Right. I mean, what was. I mean. I guess some people are going down the, the anti Semitic rabbit holes too, probably. Like, is sunblock changing our DNA?

[Aaron Caro]

Well, you know my rule. Once I put my phone on silent and I go to bed, I never pick it up, even if I can't sleep.

[Matt Ritter]

Wow.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

I mean, that's. That, that's lesson one, Matt. You pick up your phone in the middle of the night when you can't sleep.

[Matt Ritter]

Well, it's very rare that I can't sleep.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

So anyway.

[Matt Ritter]

Yes. Because I can't sleep. It's extremely rare.

[Guest]

Right. Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

But, yeah, just. Just being. It's just being summer. Just that, like, it ruins. If you. Like, sometimes I just like, we gotta go to this thing. Well, then I have to put suntan lotion on, so forget it.

[Matt Ritter]

Well, the worst part is after the lotion, like, if you're trying to do something after, you have to.

[Aaron Caro]

You have to. You have to shower and you have to get closed.

[Guest]

Right.

[Matt Ritter]

Oh, you ever just go direct?

[Aaron Caro]

Oh, you can't. Because I. You put jeans on after you've wore suntan lotion.

[Matt Ritter]

I'm just saying, in my life, I've done. It's one of the worst feelings.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Matt Ritter]

In the world.

[Aaron Caro]

I've never. I've never gone direct.

[Matt Ritter]

Oh, I've gone direct. It's. I'd say it's up there with having to put your bathing suit on after.

[Aaron Caro]

You go to the bathroom or like.

[Matt Ritter]

Your wet bathing suit. Wet bathing suit back on after going to the bathroom.

[Aaron Caro]

Or do you. Do you. Do you go and have a day after you get a haircut?

[Matt Ritter]

I try to always go home and shower.

[Guest]

Right.

[Aaron Caro]

But you ever have to, like, do stuff when your hair.

[Matt Ritter]

Worst day of your life.

[Guest]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Matt Ritter]

You're still finding those hairs everywhere.

[Aaron Caro]

There's nothing worse than wearing a wet bathing suit, suntan lotion and a haircut.

[Matt Ritter]

Worst combo.

[Aaron Caro]

All right, well, this is going to be a kind of a wonky segue, but we're talking about, you know, putting suntan lotion on your body. We're talking about your body. And let's talk about physicality of friendship. And that includes how you greet your buddies, hugging your buddies, you know, everything under the sun, pun intended, that you should or shouldn't be doing when it comes to, you know, physicality. Intimacy, I might call it.

[Matt Ritter]

I love it.

[Aaron Caro]

Now, you just had what you called, like, I think you called it the hug of the century or something like that.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah, I just was at my reunion and actually two. Two of my law school buddies, two of the best huggers I've ever met. Really, like, bear hug. Held it in. It's almost like we should have been crying.

[Aaron Caro]

Were they big guys?

[Matt Ritter]

No, just.

[Aaron Caro]

Oh, wow.

[Guest]

Wow.

[Matt Ritter]

Affection. Just pure. I got two bear hug affection hugs of people I hadn't seen in a while.

[Aaron Caro]

And so we talked about this a couple years ago in the pod. Were they, you know, I like a hug and a pat. You know, were they patting or they just.

[Matt Ritter]

Was just a big hug.

[Aaron Caro]

Just a big hug. Okay, that's great. That's great.

[Matt Ritter]

Weighing hug.

[Aaron Caro]

So this came up with us a few episodes ago. We were interviewing Katie Corwin and Delaney Buffett, who made this movie Adult Best Friends, and they said that they don't. They've never hugged each other.

[Matt Ritter]

I know. I was shocked.

[Aaron Caro]

And they're best friends since fifth grade. And I'm still thinking about that now. And I don't know, did we land on the fact that they're like. I don't know, that they're waspy or something like that? Like, where do we.

[Matt Ritter]

Culture has different sort of norms, I guess, on physicality. I mean, that's obviously a broad stereotype, but I think it's true. There are different, you know, there are general differences like, hey, you go to a different country, they kiss you twice. You go somewhere else, they kiss you three times. Some places four times. What did we decide? Four. There are places that kiss. 16 kisses for a four person. For a four person brunch. 16 kisses. 16 kisses for a four person brunch. A two minute kiss festival. Sir, your table's ready. Hold on, hold on. Sir, your table. We're gonna give away your table. Hold on. I'm almost done greeting my friends. I love it.

[Aaron Caro]

I think to me, over two kiss, going back to the same cheek is bananas.

[Matt Ritter]

It's gross.

[Aaron Caro]

It's not gross.

[Matt Ritter]

Cheek is already wet from you. But.

[Aaron Caro]

Oh, I don't know.

[Matt Ritter]

Are they? No, it's all fine. I'm kidding. They're all listen, every greeting. It's. I think they're all, they're all totally like, I don't have a preference, to be honest. When I actually, I like wherever I am. I like it to be the host nation's kiss culture.

[Aaron Caro]

Well, I mean, it would be weird if you, like, you know, in America, you did six kisses.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah. No, but I'm saying, would it be funny if I just only. I refused to do the second one.

[Aaron Caro]

Somewhere, you know, oh, my God.

[Matt Ritter]

If you're just like, no, I only do one. I only do one. Well, because, you know, you have these people who don't shake hands. They don't hug, they don't do this. They all pull back. What? I would love to know what that's about.

[Aaron Caro]

Well, well, I. I wanted to actually share this with you. So when I. When I meet someone. I don't know, I actually just had like a. A meeting yesterday. I see. I. When I meet them, I say, are you okay with a hug? And then I give them a hug. Because we hug generally and we work in Hollywood, people hug. I think the world has changed in the past five years. You can't just hug people.

[Matt Ritter]

Papa Matt just comes in like this, like a condor. I come in like a condor.

[Aaron Caro]

I was, I was just with, with Lindsay's kids and I gave one of them a hug and they kind of didn't like it. And I was like, oh, okay. And Lindsay's like, no, you have to ask because we're teaching them that they need to ask.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah. A lot of they're taught to like, bro, ask. You have to ask if you want to hug the kid. I think that's pretty normal these days in parenting.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, you got to ask. I don't have the kid.

[Guest]

Right. Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

Anyway, what do we think about. And we'll talk about this a little bit in our listener question. You know, people who are, I mean, do we think it's, it's, it's better, worse, different. The non huggers, the huggers, like Delaney and Katie, like, they don't hug. Like, is that a problem for you?

[Matt Ritter]

Here's my take. We want you to feel connected. That's the, that's the guilt. That's the goal. The aim is for you to feel real connection to your friends. I believe intimacy involves physical connection, but it doesn't have to be, I suppose, you know, if you can feel real intimacy without that, you know, great. But I think a lot of people do need physical intimacy, and I think studies have shown physical intimacy is a part of connection.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, I mean, I guess it's hard from, from just our standpoint, our cultural standpoint. I can't imagine the downside of a bro hug, right? Like, you see your buddies, you hug it out. Like, I, I, I don't, I don't, I can't see what anybody wouldn't like about that if they're your actual friend.

[Matt Ritter]

I mean, I think some people actually are just uncomfortable with physical contact.

[Guest]

Right?

[Matt Ritter]

And I, I don't know where that, you know, just everybody's different. You know, it could, could be your something happened, a trauma, or it just could be how you just exist in the world. You could be on the spectrum. There's a lot of reasons, right, maybe, why people don't engage that way. But I do think, personally, for me, and I think it's definitely true, I think studies have shown that intimacy, physical intimacy creates certain things that are harder to get with that. I think it adds trust, it adds a feeling of, I don't know, safety, if you want to call it compassion. I don't know. That's what I felt like when I, when I, I guess when I had these hugs with my friends from law school, I felt like a, like a compassion, like a. I missed you. I, you know, I feel for everything that you had, good, bad and different. Like, all of it was in there, you know?

[Aaron Caro]

You know how the, in the new iPhones, not the new iPhones, where you can, you could, you could hold them end to end and like, send pictures or send your contact information. Yeah, that's like a hug. It, like, shoots the information across to the, to the other guy.

[Matt Ritter]

Well, you know what? Oh, that's good. You know what? I would take it even a step further. You ever see those movies where, like, the guy can see the future when he shakes your hand or TV shows.

[Aaron Caro]

Vaguely. I mean, sure.

[Matt Ritter]

Anyway, I feel like when. When you're hugging somebody, like, you get to, like, feel their, like, range of life stuff. I don't know. I felt weird. I just feel like you, like, you're, like, in their life in a moment. I don't know. It's crazy.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, well, it's the same reason why hanging out with your friends on Zoom versus going out with them together is different. You know, you could see someone every day on Zoom. It's not the same.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

You know, like, I think I've talked about this before. My buddy Shane, his dad, he's. His dad has never hugged him. And I was like, that can't be. He's like, no, he's not a hugger. We're not. It's not our family. So we have a long standing bet that when his dad visits him in la, I'll get a hug out of him.

[Matt Ritter]

Right?

[Aaron Caro]

He's like, you're not getting a hug. I'm like, shane, I will get that hug. I will get that hug.

[Matt Ritter]

My grandma never hugged.

[Guest]

Right.

[Aaron Caro]

I remember that. She was. She was the one who said you were clumsy.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah, the Spiller. She called me.

[Aaron Caro]

Because you spilled once.

[Matt Ritter]

But she caused a debilitating case of the yips for the rest of my life.

[Aaron Caro]

She called you the Spiller. Did she have, like, an accent?

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah, I mean, like a Brooklyn accent.

[Aaron Caro]

So what? She's like, oh, here's a Maddie. That Spiller.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah. No, it wasn't that thick, but you just. Yeah, yeah, it hit. It hit. It hit hard.

[Aaron Caro]

It's the worst superhero ever.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah. Oh, Spiller. Now Jesse's like, he's so clumsy. Every time I spill something now, it's like.

[Aaron Caro]

That might be like, your one sort of thing that, like. Because, you know, you and I are pretty hard to insult.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

That may be one thing that gets. That's like calling.

[Matt Ritter]

Oh, that's like.

[Aaron Caro]

It's like calling Marty McFly. Yeah, they call him Marty McFly Chicken. Like, calling him yellow.

[Matt Ritter]

That's right. If you just go, oh, wait, don't put that drink down your back.

[Aaron Caro]

Should we take a listener question?

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

All right, we'll be right back.

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[Cashier]

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[Customer]

Wait, let's negotiate. How's about you throw in hash browns for a dollar?

[Cashier]

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[Customer]

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[Matt Ritter]

Are you.

[Aaron Caro]

Ready to get spicy? These Doritos Golden Sriracha aren't that spicy. Sriracha sounds pretty spicy to me. Um, a little spicy, but also tangy and sweet. Maybe it's time to turn up the heat. Or turn it down. It's time for something that's not too spicy. Try Doritos Golden Sriracha Spicy but not too spicy. Guys, this is Asking for a Friend. This is our Listener Question segment. If you've got a friendship question or ethical dilemma, send it to us on Instagram at Man of the Year podcast and we will answer it on the show. Okay. Dear Matt and Cairo, Love the pod. I have an asking for a Friend question. Physical affection has never come easily to me. I generally prefer emotional closeness to physical contact. One of my buddies expresses connection primarily through touch, lots of hugs, good natured punches on my arm, sitting extremely close, etc. I care for him deeply, but the persistent physicality can feel a little invasive and it's kind of exhausting to me. How do I navigate this difference in how we connect without offending him or harming the closeness of our friendship?

[Matt Ritter]

I mean, I don't want to downplay it, but I think it's it's totally normal for people to have different styles, right? I mean, we were just talking about people kiss different ways. Some people hug, some people don't. In any friend circle, you probably, if you may, may not have even thought about it, right? You may not have actually thought about. If you make a list, you could probably find in your five friends five different kissing hugging levels of intimacy styles just for physicality. And some people look what we were just talking about, like, do you need physical intimacy? I like it. I think it has benefits. But if you're emotionally intimate, I think that's great. The point is, you want to be able to be vulnerable with each other. And I think if you just. You know, they probably already know this. This is what I was going to say. Kira, don't you think they already kind of know how you are? Probably.

[Aaron Caro]

Which kind of makes it a little bit worse if the guy's not respecting the other guy's personal space.

[Matt Ritter]

Like we said, your friends aren't mind readers too.

[Aaron Caro]

Well, you just said they know each other.

[Matt Ritter]

They already know each other. But again, like, if somebody hasn't told you, like, oh, you know, I'm not a big hugger. Like, if their default is always hugging.

[Guest]

Right, right.

[Matt Ritter]

If your default. Look, I. Nothing. I hate less than the guys. And remember those high school guys, the shoulder punchers? The frat shoulder punchers.

[Guest]

Right.

[Aaron Caro]

Well, when someone, like, really hits you, you're like, bro, what are you doing?

[Guest]

Right, Right.

[Aaron Caro]

Dead arm. Like, what.

[Matt Ritter]

What do you. But so, I mean, look, I'm just saying, I think, like, your friendship is going to be fine. This is not a friendship. I. I can't. I don't. I don't think there's a scenario where this is going to. If you want to just say something where this is going to be some sort of friendship ruiner. It's just better to be more transparent with your friends about things you, you know, like or don't like. I mean, look, obviously certain things you let go, like, hey, everybody has, like, that uncle who's gonna squeeze your cheeks or whatever. And that's just how it is, you know, uncle, whatever.

[Guest]

Right?

[Matt Ritter]

Let's. Let's leave it there. My point is, sometimes you just let things go. You see somebody once a year. Oh, oh, yeah. This person's a big hugger. All right. Let it slide. But if it's your friend that you're seeing regularly, you shouldn't have to go hiding your, you know, communication style or emotional style. I think sometimes we tend to match because we all, you know, like, the desire to be liked and validated is. We often match styles. Not just manner of talking, but also hugs. Like, somebody comes in with a big hug, you're like, I'm gonna give him a big hug, even if that's not what you normally do. And I think it's actually pretty good to do it that way. But if it's something that bothers you, like, people have to respect everybody else's Boundaries.

[Aaron Caro]

How does. You know? Listen, we. We can't necessarily, necessarily relate to the question asker because we don't have those boundary issues hugging our bros. Yeah, but, you know, he wants to say something. How did you bring that up to your buddy?

[Matt Ritter]

So I think you can always make a joke, you know, if you want, you can do it that way and be like, wow, it's got, you know, I don't know exactly what you'd say, but just like, I don't know. We have to think about how to frame that. But I. I don't think I'm saying. I don't think it's a big deal to say something, you know, I think.

[Aaron Caro]

You got to do a compliment sandwich.

[Matt Ritter]

Compliment sandwich. Let me hear.

[Aaron Caro]

Right. So you go. You go, oh, dude, I. I love hanging out. It's just so fun. We got to keep doing this. Can we maybe not punch me so much? Because I just. I don't love it so much anyway. Like, let me buy you a drink. Blah, blah, blah.

[Matt Ritter]

Right.

[Aaron Caro]

You know, the old. The old compliment sandwich, as they call it.

[Matt Ritter]

I like that. I like that you make it.

[Aaron Caro]

You got to make a joke of it.

[Matt Ritter]

I think the light roast, though, is what I was trying to say. Like.

[Aaron Caro]

Like, oh, this guy loves to hug.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah. Or it's like, oh, this guy's like, this guy's world arm wrestling champ over here.

[Aaron Caro]

I don't think he's gonna get the. He's gonna get the gist, though, maybe.

[Matt Ritter]

Or like, yeah, you know, my. My back's still recovering from your last hug.

[Aaron Caro]

You could have. You could have. Could you have. Could you avoid it? Don't put yourself in situations where you're posted up next to him.

[Matt Ritter]

Well, that's the thing. Some people I have found, and I look again, like, this isn't my style. And I always like, like, oh, that feels. This feels uncomfortable for me. But if that's their comfort zone. Some people do the side hug.

[Aaron Caro]

What's that?

[Matt Ritter]

You don't know the side hug?

[Aaron Caro]

No.

[Matt Ritter]

You've never had people, like, they literally turn to the side so you hug their side.

[Aaron Caro]

I. I can't. I can't picture it.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah, there's some people that I don't. I don't know exactly what it is, but they don't feel comfortable with the forward hug. They like the side hug.

[Aaron Caro]

You know, I mean, I. I have hugged.

[Matt Ritter]

They like the. You're hugging them that way because they're doing it deliberately because they like the side hug. You may not have realized.

[Aaron Caro]

Well, I have. Okay. This is what I've experienced. I've hugged someone and they clearly are not a hugger.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

And say they sort of like, you know, they don't, they don't go neck over your neck. They kind of put, they kind of give, leave some space in between.

[Matt Ritter]

Right, right. The, the, My grandma had a force field, we called it. So even if people tried to hug her, it wasn't a real hug.

[Aaron Caro]

Well, when I looked up side hug, I see people shoulder to shoulder hugging, like almost like sitting next to each other at a baseball game.

[Matt Ritter]

No, there's people who do like, I don't know how to, it's like that's their, they like, they're kind of in a awkward shoulder down pose. I don't know what it is.

[Guest]

Got it.

[Aaron Caro]

I mean, side hug has its own Wikipedia page, which is insane. So yes, you could do a side hug. You could wear a fake, you know, crutch, like, you know, so the person doesn't want to punch you.

[Matt Ritter]

But, but I also think it's like a, you know, I was gonna say like again, like it's, we're talking about people who are like just having a weird mismatch on something minor.

[Aaron Caro]

I know you keep saying how minor it is, but clearly it bothers this guy.

[Matt Ritter]

No, I know, but I'm saying, even if it bothers you, I'm saying I don't think it's gonna end your friendship.

[Aaron Caro]

So don't, I don't think he thinks it's gonna end his friendship.

[Matt Ritter]

Right. I'm saying. So, so just go ahead and resolve it.

[Aaron Caro]

Right. Just say something. I'm sure it's fine. I mean, listen, you know, if the other guy, the other guy's either gonna be, take, be to get defensive or he's going to be like, oh, no problem.

[Matt Ritter]

I don't think he's going to get defensive.

[Aaron Caro]

Okay. You're just saying like, he'll be like, okay, no problem. All good?

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah, I just, I, I, I find it hard to believe that your friend, who you genuinely like is suddenly going to be like, you don't want my hug.

[Aaron Caro]

I mean, this guy's an arm puncher, you know, who knows? Okay, how about this, Matt? What about proposing sort of what you said, proposing alternative physical intimacy.

[Matt Ritter]

Oh, create a new handshake.

[Aaron Caro]

Well, I was gonna say, can we do a fist bump? Are you okay with a Bash Brothers thing?

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah, but I've found that the people who don't handshake do that too. They've, they've created a style. You know, the people that don't. Handshake.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

Well, when I was recently with celebrity chef Guy Fieri, he only fist bumps, right?

[Matt Ritter]

And they make it clear that they. That they only fist bumps.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

But also he has. He wears crazy bling, like huge rings and stuff.

[Matt Ritter]

He's literally indenting your. Your knuckle. Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

It was the least comfortable fist bump.

[Matt Ritter]

Two days later, you're like, why do I have a Guy Fieri restaurant ring symbol in my hand?

[Aaron Caro]

He put his. Yeah, his logo.

[Matt Ritter]

Guy Very hot wing sauce. Label. Label indented.

[Aaron Caro]

Why did my forehead say Flavortown?

[Matt Ritter]

Believe it. You got the Guy Fieri stamp of approval.

[Aaron Caro]

Did you ever. Do you ever. Did you ever watch celebrity chefs use Celebrity Chef Guy?

[Matt Ritter]

No. You?

[Guest]

No.

[Aaron Caro]

No. But my dad loves Food Channel.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah, I've never gotten into it. I had a roommate who was once obsessed with it. Really good. I think it's good background stuff. Like, I think it's part of that, like, passive. Watching tv. Boom.

[Guest]

Right.

[Aaron Caro]

Watching other people cook, it just seems so.

[Matt Ritter]

You know, it's a huge market. I mean, it's massive.

[Guest]

Yeah, no, I know, I know.

[Aaron Caro]

All right. I think we answer this question. So I would say we would. Are summer up by saying this is. This is. This is important to you? Say something. Pull up the band aid off. Your buddy will understand. Either do a compliment sandwich or propose a different way of. Of being physical. But I would say this is a high class problem. Right.

[Matt Ritter]

That's what I think. That's what I was getting at. It's like, as long as you're feeling the friendship is fulfilling, there's no one right way to greet anyone anyway. Like, the. The hug isn't universally approved.

[Guest]

Right, Right.

[Aaron Caro]

Okay, guys, that was asking for a friend. If you have a friendship question, send it to us on Instagram and we'll answer on the show. So as. As we wrap up here, I wonder if we should maybe talk about the elephant in the room that, you know, are there perhaps guys out there who think that hugging your bros or physical intimacy is somehow like, you know, means you're not straight or something like that? Is it somehow a yes. You know, and. And how we. And how we. How do we disabuse people of that notion here in 2025?

[Matt Ritter]

I mean, I think it's less of an issue than it used to be, for sure.

[Aaron Caro]

Sure.

[Matt Ritter]

But I definitely still, still think there are guys that are built or brought up with the notions of masculinity and, you know, that there's a. There's a line, you know?

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Matt Ritter]

This is the Line you walk. And intimacy. Just the. The idea of intimacy. I think somebody wrote an article. I think it was the Atlantic recently. I think I sent it to you. About how in the olden times, physical intimacy was like, part and parcel of male friendship.

[Aaron Caro]

Are they, like, sleeping in the same beds?

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it had nothing to do with sexuality. It's just that was how people bonded, and that is still how a lot of people bond. And I think you just, you know, like, I think you can't change people, though. I think, like, on some level, if that's gonna make you feel uncomfortable, I'm not sure we could convince you to not feel uncomfortable about it, but I think we kind of get you to wrap your head around the idea that you don't need to.

[Guest]

Right, Right.

[Aaron Caro]

Yes. I mean. I mean, to me, they're. They're too. Physical intimacy with your buddies. Hug up from your platonic buddy is. Just. Has no meaning besides that.

[Matt Ritter]

Right. But I also. Look, here's an example. I have a family member that loves kissing me on the cheek. You know, Male family member. I don't know. Like, a couple years ago, I was just like. That made me cringe, you know, And I think it was because we hadn't necessarily had this evolution for me anyway, about all this stuff.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Matt Ritter]

Now I think I. I think I may have told somebody to tell him not to do it to me.

[Guest]

Right.

[Matt Ritter]

Which is like.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Matt Ritter]

Passive aggressive.

[Aaron Caro]

Actually. Quite unusual for you.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah. But this was years. This was like 20 years. Now I'm like, man, I just bring it in, man.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

Give me. Give me four of those kisses.

[Matt Ritter]

Feel that beard.

[Aaron Caro]

Oh, man.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah. It's funny. I was just, you know, I went to the Dodgers game with our mutual buddy, and we were, you know, had a long Uber ride, obviously hysterically laughing. You know how it is. And, like, you know, a lot of physical. I was noticing because I know we're gonna talk about it. You know, slapping his knee, like, grab. Grabbing his arm. Like, that's hilarious when you're laughing.

[Matt Ritter]

I love that. I love grabbing a knee or, like, elbowing a rib when something funny is happening. I love that. Physical intimacy.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Matt Ritter]

I'll just say this, too, you know, because I think I talked about this a long time ago. My one regret with my dad was thinking back when I. I guess at some point as a teenager, he used to always love holding my hand. And then I just. At some point as a teenager, I started pulling away from that. And now I'm doing it with my kid. Like, I'M on the couch, he's laying on top of me, we're watching tv and his hands are in my hand and I'm holding on for dear life because, like, one day he won't want to do that.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

So, so, so is he. So now he's looking at screens.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah. What can you do? I fought the good fight.

[Aaron Caro]

How long did that last?

[Matt Ritter]

I don't know. Almost two years. You know, he gets a short amount of TV a day. I'm not going to judge. Every parent has to do different. We have two kids now and just the juggling. It's like, you know, I always read these articles like, you, you shouldn't be using TV as a substitute for parenting. I'm like, all right, well, I'm using it as a substitute for a babysitter then.

[Aaron Caro]

I mean, listen, we watch tv. It's, it's more like the. It's like the iPad that's the problem.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah, yeah. But I guess my wrap up thought of this is like, I personally love the physical connection between friendships and I've grown to love it. I wasn't like the most physically intimate. Now I'm just like, I enjoy, I'm enjoying that I've become more vulnerable on that front. Everybody communicates differently. I think you can connect with varying degrees of physical intimacy. Like, you know, our friends who said they never hugged. It sounds like they still have a very healthy, intimate relationship.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

And I think for those of our listeners who I'm curious, I'm wondering what advice we should give if you, like, have a group of friends and you guys don't hug. I don't know, can you, can we start it? Can you try it?

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah. I would like some people who don't hug to try it for us. I'd love to live a little hug club action, see what's happening. Well, you know what? I love that, that, that meme that went viral where the buddies were calling their good friends to say goodnight.

[Guest]

Oh, God.

[Aaron Caro]

Hilarious, right?

[Matt Ritter]

So, like, it would be great to just see people who don't hug just start hugging their bros.

[Aaron Caro]

The, the calling your buddy to say goodnight thing crushed me.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah. So funny.

[Aaron Caro]

It's funny. I'm. I should have done it to you. You've probably been like, okay, good night. Love you.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah, it wouldn't have worked because I wouldn't have been like, oh, that's weird.

[Aaron Caro]

All right, anything else?

[Matt Ritter]

That's all I got.

[Aaron Caro]

Guys, hug your bros and let us know how it goes. All right, guys, thank you so much for listening. Always Remember, be good to yourself. Be good to your friends.

[Matt Ritter]

Love you, buddy.

[Customer]

Morning. One sausage McMuffin with egg, please.

[Cashier]

Okay, your total is.

[Matt Ritter]

Wait.

[Customer]

Let's negotiate. How's about you throw in hash browns for a dollar?

[Cashier]

Well, yes, sir. That price is already a dollar.

[Customer]

Take it or leave it.

[Cashier]

Take it, I guess.

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