#156 - Friendship Leadership

Summary

Podcast Episode Summary

Man of the Year – Champions of Friendship

Episode #156: Friendship Leadership
Hosts: Matt Ritter and Aaron Karo
Date: October 28, 2025

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Overview

This episode centers on the concept of "friendship leadership"—what it means to be a “friendship leader” or “captain” within a friend group, the responsibilities involved, and how these roles help maintain strong, enduring social bonds. The hosts blend their signature humor with actionable advice, sharing personal stories and tackling listener questions about building and breaking into friend circles.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining Friendship Leadership and Captaincy

• The episode explores the roles of a “friendship leader” and a “friendship captain,” with hosts drawing distinctions and using lively analogies (rowing teams, sports captains, family leaders).
• Friendship Leader: Someone who models good friendship, keeps the group activated, and promotes connection and engagement (05:26).
• Friendship Captain: Goes beyond leadership by also organizing, resolving conflicts, remembering important dates, moderating group comings/goings, and keeping everything running smoothly (04:43, 06:51).

“Friendship leaders are people that take responsibility for the activation of the friend group and the momentum... but they’re not necessarily also the organizer of everything. I think captain is like a leader, but also the person that’s really kind of tasked with a lot of it.”
— Matt (05:02)

2. Ritual and the Power of Designating Captains

• Hosts stress the importance of friendship rituals—recurring traditions that bond groups (11:01).
• Suggest “ritualizing the rituals,” like giving group customs names or matching T-shirts, and even marking the “captain” role with symbolic items (a “C” badge or armband) (10:23, 11:37).

"When we talk about rituals, we're talking about traditions that you have with your friends that are reoccurring... I love the captain thing. Matt, I was thinking you were going to do armband like in soccer."
— Aaron (11:01)

3. The Pros and Cons of Leadership Role Clarity

• The hosts discuss how some groups clearly have a captain, while others are more ambiguous. Groups with clear leadership tend to function better (13:38).

“The ones where there’s a clarity of structure of some sort... benefit.”
— Matt (13:48)

• They introduce the terms “planners” (those who organize) and “fanners” (those who show up and enjoy), emphasizing how planners/captains are vital (13:54).

4. Listener Question: Breaking Into a Tight Friend Group [17:46–29:43]

Question Recap:
A listener wants to join a tight-knit group his two closest friends are part of, but hasn't been invited beyond a bachelor party. He wonders how to be included and whether friendships like this are still attainable as an adult.

Hosts' Advice:

• Reframe the Goal: Instead of passively waiting for an invite, take initiative—host something, extend invitations, or start a smaller offshoot crew with the people you already know (21:39, 25:35).
• Realistic Outlook: Understand that some long-standing groups may be less receptive to new members, and a single bachelor party does not guarantee group membership (20:46, 24:56).
• Go One-by-One: Deepen connections individually with other group members (23:05).
• Deliver Value: Demonstrate what you bring to the group and be proactive (23:59, 24:47).
• Avoid Passivity:

  “Anytime anybody said, ‘I hope to be invited on a pod,’ you're immediately gonna get... I hoped you would listen to us and invite them somewhere.”
  — Matt (24:21)

• Bachelor Party Effect: Recognize that one-off events create temporary closeness, but real group inclusion requires consistent effort (27:29).

“I’m best friends with everybody at every bachelor party I’ve ever been to... of course you love these guys, because you’re at a bachelor party with them.”
— Matt (27:33)

• Concentric Circles: You can already start small—with your closest two friends in the group, make a three- or four-person crew (21:39, 29:09).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the importance of friendship captains:

  “Without the friendship captain or a friendship leader, friendships brought amok. They run, they run away, they fall apart... Would you agree that you’re a friendship captain or a leader?”
  — Matt (02:53)

• On leadership’s changing nature:

  “I think that role could change... I think I am the captain of a couple of friend groups, and we’ll talk about what that means... it’s like being the head of the family, you know, the matriarch or the patriarch.”
  — Aaron (04:12)

• On group structure and planning:

  “We coined the term planners and fanners. I’m a planner, and Matt’s just fanning himself, asking for a Venmo request. And if you have planners and fanners in a group... planners need fanners."
  — Aaron (13:54)

• Personal story: Matt revives a 20-year-old law school group chat, demonstrating the persistence required to maintain adult friend groups (07:13).

• On passivity:

  “It's just very passive. Like, you should be inviting them.”
  — Aaron (24:18)

• Bachelor party effect:

  “Every bachelor party is super fun... I’m best friends with everybody at every bachelor party I’ve ever been to.”
  — Matt (27:33)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:30 — Introduction to episode theme: Friendship Leadership
• 04:37 — Distinction between leader and captain roles
• 10:23 — How to ritualize friend group roles (e.g., “C” badge, armbands)
• 13:54 — Planners vs. Fanners and group role dynamics
• 17:46 — Listener question: Breaking into friend groups
• 21:39–29:43 — Step-by-step advice for joining or building friend groups
• 27:29 — “Bachelor party” dynamics and fleeting friendship connections

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Final Thoughts & Takeaways

• Leadership matters: Friend groups thrive when someone steps up as leader/captain—organizing, energizing, and maintaining connections.
• Tradition and ritual help: Recurring traditions and rituals—especially with designated roles—reinforce bonds.
• Be proactive: Waiting to be invited rarely works; real connection requires effort and initiative.
• Adult friendships are attainable: It's never “too late” to build or join a crew, but expectations and tactics may have to shift with age.
• Build your own: If a group isn’t open to expansion, form your own with the allies you already have.

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“Always remember: be good to yourself. Be good to your friends. Love you, buddy.”
— Aaron (31:15)

Transcript

[A]

Man of the Year.

[B]

Man of the Year. Man of the Year. Welcome to the number one friendship podcast in the country. I'm Matt Ritter.

[A]

I'm Aaron Caro.

[B]

Guys, we have some exciting things going on here in the man of the Year studio. We recorded an audio original for Audible that is all of our greatest hits from the pot, all of our best tips and hacks, but also all of our wisdom from our so many years on this planet, so many years of friendship. It's called the Buddy System and it is a self help audio. But self help doesn't really fully describe it because self help sometimes people think is overly serious or, you know, kind of just so overly polished. It's me and Carol being real with you guys. We're funny, we're irreverent, and we're here to help.

[A]

Yeah, it's kind of a funny audio comedic guide to friendship. It's. And it's good if you're like trying to make new friends. And also half the book is about just being a good friend and maintaining your friendships. And it also has me and Matt telling stories from the past 39 years.

[B]

Everybody, even if you feel like your friendships are going well now, everybody's always need some help in the realm of friendship.

[A]

Audible.com the buddy system. That's audible.com the buddy system. You could check it out. Even if you're not an Audible member, there'll be some offers for you. And we're very. We're very proud of it. We recorded it in a booth. Imagine me and Matt in a booth for three days.

[B]

Oh, Caro was so mad. I was working on my vocal exercises.

[A]

Oh, that was doing red leather, Yellow leather. He was crying for part of it. I mean, it was very emotional.

[B]

Thing that bothered you the most was me phonating into the straw. Straw.

[A]

Yeah. What is that again?

[B]

That's to warm up your vocal flaps.

[A]

But what. What is it?

[B]

I blow a blow bubbles into a low, shallow pool of water.

[A]

Oh, man. But it. It's worth it. It's audible.com thebuddy system, a modern man's guide to mastering friendship and leveling up your life. Check it out now, please.

[B]

So, Kira, I was thinking about you when coming up with the idea for this episode. Not to toot your horn or flatter you too much because, you know, we don't love to do that to each other, but I would consider you both of these things that I want to talk about. I would consider you both a friendship leader and the captain of various friend groups.

[A]

Okay. All right.

[B]

So I wanted to talk about this idea that every healthy friend group needs this. They need a leader, a captain. They need somebody steering the ship. We could call you a coxin because you're little at the front of the boat. You know, you're under 140. I believe the. The weight limit for the cox.

[A]

I wish. I wish.

[B]

Yeah. So I was thinking about you. You know, you're yelling at everybody to row in the right direction without the friendship captain or a friendship leader. Friendships brought amok. They run, they run away, they fall apart. They run by the wayside. Would you agree that you're a friendship captain or a leader? I think I'm a friendship leader, but I'm not sure I'm necessarily a captain. I think those are slightly different.

[A]

First of all, how do you pronounce the person at the front of the boat?

[B]

Coxin. Looks like cox. Wayne.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

I only know this because. I only know this because I had a friend who was 1.

[A]

This was, like, at undergrad. Yeah. Yeah. I kind of like friendship. Is it coxin?

[B]

Coxin.

[A]

I kind of like friendship coxin. Just like. I don't know. It's just.

[B]

Just.

[A]

It feels right. Like you're yelling at people, you're rowing everyone's, you know.

[B]

Would you agree that every good friend group needs one?

[A]

Yes, I think otherwise, it's just chaos. Now, I think that that role could change, but. But. But, yes, I think. I think I will accept your compliment. I think I am the captain of a couple of friend groups, and we'll talk about what that means. But, you know, it's like sort of being like the. The. The head of the family, you know, the matriarch or the patriarch.

[B]

It's an obligation. It's a responsibility. It's a great responsibility. But I wanted to just talk about just the idea that. I think there's two different things. I think there's friendship. So I think friendship leaders are people that take responsibility for the activation of the friend group and the momentum of the friend group and, you know, feel a. A responsibility and always sort of push the excitement and the active activations of what's happening, but they're not necessarily also the organizer of everything. I think captain is like a leader, but also the person that's really kind of tasked with a lot of it. Whereas I think, like, a group can have multiple friendship leaders, but only one captain.

[A]

Interesting. Multiple friendship leaders. Because I thought you meant friendship leadership sort of like strides all of friendship, which is that, like, if you're. If you matter out and about and you are talking to somebody. Somebody else, maybe someone that you don't know, that you are modeling good friendship behavior as well.

[B]

That's true. Yes. A friendship leader is in all aspects, not just within that friend group.

[A]

Right. Because. Because you're saying is that someone in the friend group would say, hey, it's Matt's birthday, but, hey, Jim, you have to plan it.

[B]

But also, like, what you're saying, a friendship leader is somebody who's thinking about, you know, connection and building and, you know, all. All of those things. Somebody who's friend forward. But the captain is a little bit more like, you know, it's like the organized, not just the organizer, you know?

[A]

Right. Like, to me, you. You exhibit a lot of leadership because, like, when someone moves to town, you're like, give them my number.

[B]

Right?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

And that's friendship leadership. But I think captain is like, yeah, you know, you're expected to solve the squabbles and like, you know.

[A]

Yes. Right, right.

[B]

A lot of tasks, it's not just planning trips.

[A]

Right. The captain has got to engage in conflict resolution.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I would say the captain moderates entry egress in ingress and egress of the group.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

The captain also remembers important dates and birthdays. And the captain communicates. The only compliment you gave me before this is that I communicate. We talk about in the audio original, the buddy system be the herald, which, if you find out information about somebody that's good or bad, but mostly good, tell everybody else.

[B]

Yes. And I think, you know, both being a friendship leader and a captain, you should take on the responsibility. If this is the first time you're thinking about this term and you are listening, you're going, yeah, I think I am a friendship captain. I think I am a friendship leader. You tell me if you agree with this, you should be responsible for the direction and style of what you want this group to be. It's aspirational, too, because friend groups as we know, like, it gets harder after your 20s, in your 30s, to even be an entity known as a friend group, to even exist outside or even in a group chat. I just revived my law school friend group chat after 20 years, and we're, you know, trying to do things, and I'm taking responsibility for that. Like, I'm, you know, gonna be in Florida. So I was trying to get everybody to, like, put that on the calendar, put that in their, you know, in their idea box, run that by their significant others.

[A]

I'm sorry, I'm. I'm just really just hung up on this. Coxin thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What, what do they, what does the coxin do?

[B]

Well, you know what's funny? The coxswain isn't even facing forward.

[A]

Yeah. They're facing the other. The other people.

[B]

I know, but don't you think there's something fascinating about that? That they are in charge and they're not even facing the water?

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I guess they're. They're facing the people they're in charge of.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This says what? They sit in the bow or the stern, depending on the type of boat, while verbally and physically controlling the boat steering speed, timing and fluidity.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So physically. So they also do physical stuff.

[B]

I didn't. Oh, do they? They kind of shimmy if they.

[A]

I don't know. Maybe. They shimmy. Yeah, it's a little.

[B]

The boat gets a little heavy in one direction. They. They put their 110 pound. What's the limit?

[A]

I don't know. I think you might have made that up.

[B]

No, there is. There is, by the way.

[A]

There is. There are coxswains that sit in the back and face. Face the direction they're going.

[B]

Cox and weight limit 125. Damn. Minimum. Wait, minimum. Meet a minimum.

[A]

Oh, minimum.

[B]

Oh, because it used to be too light. They were stealing.

[A]

Right. You could just put a child in there.

[B]

Right. I just pictured like a four year old coxing, just yelling.

[A]

Well, wait a minute. Are we missing a joke here? What about that viral thing from a couple months ago about the. It was it in Indonesia where the guys on the front, the little kids in the front, like dancing? You know what I'm talking about?

[B]

No, I didn't see this.

[A]

It must have been in Europe. It was like, I don't know, went like uber viral. The guy, the guy was standing at the front of the boat. It was like a kid, I don't know. So they had two. Two small front of boat. Okay.

[B]

Indonesia.

[A]

Is it during an Indonesian festival? Yeah. Anyway, I think that. Do you think one strives to become the captain? It just happens automatically. Are you named the captain? Should you have a ceremony? Is it like Derek Jeter?

[B]

Well, I like the idea of ritualizing it. Oh. So that's what I wanted to bring up to you on the pod. Like, man, how cool would it be to have the little C. Yeah, like that little C. Because a lot of look, we have, you know, we have our merch. Right. But a lot of friend groups have like Matt, we always, we always advocate for matching shirts, outfits. Like my wife and her friends have matching jacket leather jackets. Like the Pink ladies. Like, it would be pretty sick if Jess was rocking a little C on it. And people like, what is that? And she was like, what do you mean, what is it? I'm the captain of my friend group.

[A]

First of all, you can watch our. Watch this episode on YouTube. Matt is wearing our merch. It says we should be friends. We have a lot of merch which you can [e-mail] I thought first of all, just to back up, when we talk about rituals, we're talking about traditions that you have with your friends that are reoccurring. And we talk about in the audio original, the buddy system, ritualizing the rituals. So giving your rituals names and making T shirts. And we have man of the Year, which is our annual dinner. But I love the captain thing. Matt, I was thinking you were going to do armband like in soccer, so.

[B]

I know nothing about soccer. I didn't even know that the captain wears an armband.

[A]

Yeah. So the captain wears an armband. If you know that captain gets kicked off or whatever, he takes the armband off.

[B]

What color is the armband?

[A]

It's like a black. It's like black and white because it doesn't clash with the. Anybody's uniform.

[B]

Did not know that.

[A]

Because I feel like the next time we go on like a group trip, like a bachelor party, someone should be the captain each. Each night.

[B]

I like it.

[A]

Yeah, I actually have one. I think I may have one from, I don't know, high school. I still have it. I like many, many years ago, I think I was like a soccer player for Halloween or something. And I put the, put the old armband back on.

[B]

Now let me ask you this though, because I said you were kind of the leader of multiple groups. I think it would maybe be a little weird if you're. If you, if you had the captain, you know, if you were officially anointed captain of multiple friend groups.

[A]

Well, let's say that I think our primary four person friend group, the. The White Collar Boys. I don't think I'm the captain of that.

[B]

Is London captain of her.

[A]

I think it's Fireball Adam.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Well, he's definitely got the, the mojo and the plan making and most of the good, good activities.

[A]

Connections.

[B]

Yeah, most of the good activities come from him.

[A]

Yeah. That's interesting. You know what I'm gonna.

[B]

But like Rose plans all the Luger's dinners.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like he's been doing the video and the montage and the invites and that's like the cornerstone of our thing, you.

[A]

Know, I love how you were. So we used to do montages for a Man of the Year dinner. He hasn't done that about seven years. You know what? I'm actually not the captain of many of my groups. I think I'm just in a lot of groups, and I demonstrate leadership.

[B]

But do you think there's a clear captain in a lot of them or not? And if not, do you think we should start making that a thing, is what I'm saying?

[A]

I would say that some of them it's pretty clear, and some of them, it's a little amorphous. And the ones where it's pretty clear benefit.

[B]

Yeah. The ones where there's a clarity of structure of some sort.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Who's in charge of this thing?

[A]

Because also we. We coined the term planners and fanners. I'm a planner, and Matt's just fanning himself, asking for a Venmo request. And if you have planners and fanners in a group, I mean, the plan, the fanners need the planner.

[B]

Right. Well, we had a sitch where somebody was undermining somebody I know in a bachelorette party planning.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And it was like, what are you doing? This person's clearly the captain. Why are you undermining?

[A]

Right, right, right. When there's a best man or. Or a bridesmaid, you know, you're basically the captain of the wedding.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So that when I'm the officiant and then I rise above.

[B]

Oh, you're. That's a. That's the higher. Highest plane. But you're not in the group then. Then you're not like. You're not even in the group then. Efficient really isn't in the. You're like, in a separate category.

[A]

I think. I like that I'm sort of above. I'm like. Yeah. I like its own. I'm a co. Equal branch.

[B]

Yeah. I'm saying you're like the coat. You're not even in the. You're, like in management. You know what I mean? You're not even. You're not even a player.

[A]

Yeah. That's like when you. When you're friends with somebody and they get promoted. I don't know. When your brief stint as a law lawyer, I guess, doesn't really work that way in law firms. Like, do you have a friend get promoted above you?

[B]

No. Well, they could get promoted to partner before you. That's what happened. Some people don't always get promoted at the same time. Right.

[A]

But you weren't there long enough for any of that. I mean, I don't think that's a controversial statement.

[B]

Yeah, definitely not. Should we take a listener question?

[A]

We'll be right back.

[D]

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[B]

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[A]

Okay guys, this is asking for a friend. If you have a friendship question or ethical dilemma, send it to us on Instagram. Our handle is man of the Year podcast and we will answer it on the show. Matt, take it away.

[B]

This is a tough one. Hi YouTube. I recently started listening to the pod and love it. I'm dying to have a group of guy friends. I'm very social, have plenty of individual friends at this age. We're scattered around the country. My two closest male friends are part of another tight group of guys we all went to college with. They take annual trips together, have a group chat, do fantasy football, all the dude stuff. How do I crack my way into this group? I joined this group a few years ago for a bachelor party weekend. I meshed well. I think I made a great impression and I had a ton of fun. I had hoped after that I might start getting invites to future boys weekends, but didn't. Am I hoping for something unattainable? Am I too old to find a group of guys to belong to? I would love to be one of the boys. Thank you for your thoughts. First of all, thank you for sharing. That was extremely vulnerable and extremely, extremely relatable. Do you have any idea how many guys message us with some version of this? A lot.

[A]

Yeah. And I just want to point out to everybody listening, we also have a full episode about friend groups. Episode 140. Matt, I, I, I, I, I messaged a little bit with the question asker on Instagram because I wanted to, you know, give them advice sooner. Can you guess what my first like piece of advice was?

[B]

Positive or negative?

[A]

Positive.

[B]

I mean that we've built new groups. I don't know what, what?

[A]

We'll be the friend.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. But in what way? I want to expand on that.

[A]

So this friend group exists and that's great. If you were this friend group, why are they going to add a new person to their friend group?

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like think of it from their point of view.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So what are you bringing to the table that would make them want to bring you in?

[B]

Right? Yes. That's a good way to think about it. Here's my immediate for I always am like, oh man. Let's be real with our listeners. Okay, okay, okay. Not every long term friend crew is open to expansion. Sometimes a group has their thing, their fantasy, their annual trip and you might not get invited just because you got invited to a bachelor party. Bachelor parties are kind of one offs. That doesn't mean they don't like you or don't value you. Right. So let's not like assign something to that. It just means that corner, that corner of their friendship Zone might already be established, right. So it may be a situation where it's like, where can you slot it? Right, right. And so to me, I think about our friend groups, right? Like nobody's breaking into the Luger crew, but you and I now have a whole new west coast crew. That's its own thing, you know what I mean? He already is friends with two of these guys. So it may or may not happen. We could talk about how to, how to get into that if we were like to say, hey, we really want you to get in there. But you can be in these kind of concentric circles and build off of that, right. You have two friends in that group that you're already close with. You can build your own thing right there. That's a three person crew. That's you're clearly close with and you like, you don't have to be in their nine person thing. You could be in your three person thing or potentially bring a person into that. Boom, you have a four person crew.

[A]

So what you're saying actually is be the captain of a new crew.

[B]

Yeah, I'm just saying if, you know, look, we can talk about the different approaches, right? There's a middle ground. There's a, you know, there's the realist and then there's the optimist. The optimist in me says friend groups expand all the time. They weren't all built in the same year. Neither was ours. Neither were any of ours, actually. Zero, if you think about it. None of our existing friend groups were all built where everybody made friends at the exact same time. I'm saying that's not how friend crews get built. So let's just think, hey, rationally taking your emotion out of it. Like, of course you can break into friend crews at different times, but sometimes when they're established for 10 years and you're trying to break in, you're. You're trying to do something that's maybe not realistic and kind of like hard on you for no reason.

[A]

The only reason why I thought maybe he could possibly do it is I think he went to college with the other guys. He said we a group of guys we all went to college with.

[B]

Right, Right. So here's my take on that. Because I do think there's a way to do it, but the way to do it is one by one. So, okay, you're already locked in with two of the guys.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But clearly the other six or however many. I don't know if it's, I don't know if it's Said, no, I didn't say. Right. I mean, clearly they don't consider it, you know, something that you should be invited to.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so I think you got to ask yourself, like, is there some work to be done on friendship building so that it would be an obvious thing to invite you. Because I think what I'm thinking back on our own friendships, like, you and I, when we're like, we've had convos like this of, like, should we invite X person to Vegas with us or on a trip or to a game or something where we have an established crew? And when the answer is yes, it's like, not just because we love that person and we dig that person, but the other piece of that is. Oh, yeah, it would make sense. It's not weird for the other people to. They'll want him there. Of course they'll want him there.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think what's it called, Dividing and conquering is pretty good. Like, the next time you're with everybody, try to spend some time outside your two existing buddies with the other people. Charm offensive would be a way to. Way to do it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I like what you said too. Like, deliver value.

[A]

Well, because there's one thing that just jumped out from the question. I, you know, I don't want to harp too much. He said, I had hoped that after we went away together, I'd start getting invites to future boys weekends, but I didn't. It's just very past.

[B]

What? Go ahead. I know where you're going.

[A]

Yeah. It's just very passive. Like, you should be inviting them.

[B]

Exactly. I had hoped anytime anybody said, I hope to be invited on a pod, you're immediately gonna get. I hoped you would listen to us and invite them somewhere.

[A]

Right, right, right.

[B]

I had hoped. I would. Hoped that after listening to this, you would then take initiative and go, okay, you know what? I have actually an extra ticket to a game. I'm gonna invite one of those other guys in that crew.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, something they're into.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or I'm gonna make a plan. I'm, you know, I'm doing this cool bowling night. Yeah. And I'm gonna start. Or I. I'm hosting. I'm hosting poker night at my house.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, you. You're already buddies with two of them, so you could just say to the two guys, hey, I want to do X. Let's get the whole crew together.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

You know, because we. We've had emails from people who are just trying to break into a crew on their Own. This guy's way ahead of the turf.

[B]

I agree. Look, I agree it could be do. It could be doable. Like I don't know all the facts to say that it isn't because I always like to give a reality check, like, hey, existing long term crews. But it does feel like some of the elements there are, are set up for this person to break into the crew.

[A]

Say that last sentence again.

[B]

I think a lot of the elements are there for this person to the crew.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But I think what you're talking about provide value. Like suggest a low key hanging something. A draft party, a after work thing, you know, before we get into like, how come I'm not invited to the annual retreat of this friend crew.

[A]

Yeah, let's start smaller.

[B]

Right? That's the end game. There's a lot of steps before that that we could build to getting that invite. Let's work backwards.

[A]

Okay. Let me, let me pitch some, something else to you. He said, I joined this group a few years ago for a bachelor party weekend. Meshed well. I think it made a great impression. I had a ton of fun. And then he says, I hope they got an invite. How the hell does this crew know that this guy even wants to hang out with them again?

[B]

It's true. So very. It's a very good point. He was a guy that they're not in. In a crew with.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And not invited pro. I assume it's probably the bachelor party of one of those two guys.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, there's no way they're going, hey, what's that guy up to? That not because of malice. Because why wouldn't.

[B]

Thinking about you. Yeah. They're not with you.

[A]

Maybe they wanted you in the friend group and you just, you just all have to do is ask.

[B]

Yeah, Yeah. I would, I would highly suggest doing what Kiro said, which is like, think of something to invite them to your birthday party, whatever. But yeah, again, then, and then second phase is like divide and conquer. Get closer with one or two other people in that crew. So it would feel natural when it comes up to invite you.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I think that's good advice. You know, and it also doesn't have to be quite crazy. You don't have to plan a weekend away. And like, you know, I wonder if this guy even has the digits of anybody besides the two.

[B]

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Like, you have to invest in those other guys.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Just because you think it's cool. Like, oh, they seem awesome. They're great. They have, they. We Had a great time at a bachelor party. Like, that's not real. Also, every bachelor party is super fun.

[A]

Oh, that's, that's, that's not a bad point.

[B]

I. I'm best friends with everybody at every bachelor party I've ever been to. Caro, you too, right?

[A]

I never even thought about that.

[B]

Yeah, of course.

[A]

You had a blast.

[B]

I mean, I've never left a bachelor party and not like been like, yeah, that guy's work friend was amazing. Oh my God, his doctor friends were so cool.

[A]

Oh, man, it is nice. And we have an episode on 24 hour friends of like going to a wedding, like finding somebody really jive with and then never seeing them again.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like the one night stand of friendships.

[B]

Yep.

[F]

Any.

[B]

I. I just actually I went to temple and I saw some of the pen guys that you guys know. I couldn't remember half their names, but I have great feelings about them.

[A]

Well, because the last time you're with them, you're shooting paintball up a stripper's butt or something like that.

[B]

That's the point. It's like, of course you love these guys because you're at a bachelor party with them.

[A]

It was awesome because it's so weird. We went to this bachelor party and we had a great time. So strange. It really connected with him. We were on tons of a good.

[B]

Time at the bachelor party. Like, I'm sure they came home and they were like, that guy was great. Their friend from college. Super cool, man. And they might have even said, oh, I wonder why we don't hang out with that guy. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

By the way, not their friend from college. They all went to the same college together. I feel like we sort of making fun of him a little bit. I want to make sure.

[B]

The point is. Listen, I really. We really appreciate the question. It's a question we get all the time. But we want you guys to take the proactive steps that we're talking about. But also just realize it may not happen. And you can build an offshoot crew.

[A]

Yeah, I do like that. You know, just to wrap up Matt. The concentric crew of you, the two guys and one or two other dudes.

[B]

Yeah. You know, Right. Because is that crew or just you want to do fun stuff with a crew? Because it sounds like he's like, hey, am I too old to find a group of guys to belong to? You already have two of them.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, I guess would be. Those two guys are always busy doing stuff with the main. The mothership.

[B]

Right. No, I get. Listen I get that. I do. And as I said, if we can do it, let's go try and do it. Let's go try and do it. Let's go try it. Let's try it.

[A]

All right, let us know what happens with this friend crew. We're actually very eager to know. That was asking for a friend. If you guys guys have a friendship question, send it to us on Instagram. Okay, Matt, before we go, just want to remind people Again, it's audible.com the buddy system. It's audible.com the buddy system is our new audio original. And everything else we talked about you can find on man. Any final captain or leadership thoughts?

[B]

No, but I want to say it would mean a lot to us if you all download the book, the Audible. And if you are already an Audible member, it's. It's a. You just click. It's a credit. You know, it's a credit thing. And if you're not, you get a. Just listen to it on your sign up. It's. It's not. It's not like a big monetary thing, but it's a good value. And, you know, if we've brought any joy or laughter or value or anything positive to you in these past three years that we've been grinding away here.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Preaching the gospel of friendship. Download it.

[A]

Ask yourself, what have you done for Matt and Caro?

[B]

Listen, we love you guys. We love this community we've built, but it's been building towards these things that, you know, we want to share with the world.

[A]

We don't ask you for, just download.

[B]

We haven't asked for jack squat, and now we are.

[A]

That's audible.com the buddy system. All right, guys, thank you so much for listening. Always remember, be good to yourself. Be good to your friends. Love you, buddy.

[B]

Love you, buddy.

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