#168 - Is Sh*t Talking Healthy For Friendships?

Summary

Episode Overview

Podcast: Man of the Year – Champions of Friendship
Episode: #168 - Is Sh*t Talking Healthy For Friendships?
Hosts: Matt Ritter & Aaron Karo
Date: January 20, 2026

In this lively episode, comedians and friendship experts Matt Ritter and Aaron Karo explore the role of "sh*t talking"—a.k.a. ball busting or smack talk—in male friendships. They break down the rules that make playful ribbing healthy, the fine line between bonding and bullying, and share guidance on handling situations when jokes go too far. Along the way, they offer personal anecdotes, debate famous celebrity roasts, and answer a listener's dilemma about when good-natured teasing stops being fun.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Celebrity Sighting Banter (00:44 – 05:08)

• The episode kicks off with a humorous recounting of a group dinner where Matt and Aaron spotted Tom Cruise dining out, marveling at his hair and security detail.
  • Matt: "He ran in, he scooted in, he sprinted. I think he's taller than you." (01:55)
  • Aaron: "It's kinda like what you were trying to do last year ... old, middle-aged guy with long flowing hair, but his just beautiful." (02:13)
• Sets a lighthearted, self-deprecating tone that carries into the main topic.

2. Defining 'Sh*t Talking' and Its Role (05:08 – 10:14)

• Definition: Poking fun, gentle ribbing, making jokes about friends’ quirks or flaws—but only within established trust.
• Boundaries: Not for strangers; reserved for close friends.
  • Matt: "There are rules about it. And so the number one rule is you can’t talk smack to strangers." (06:49)
  • Aaron: "When you’re smack talking someone you don’t know that well, it’s just mean. When you’re smack talking someone you do know..." (06:42)
• Social Milestones: The first joke or roast marks a friendship's deepening.

3. Rules, Intent, and Symmetry (10:14 – 14:14)

• Rules for Healthy Smack Talk:
  1. Only among friends: Trust and context are fundamental.
  2. Symmetry matters: Everyone must give and take—no one should be the perpetual punchline.
  3. Intention counts: It's never meant to be cruel or bullying, but affectionate.
     • Matt: "Intention can’t be to be cruel." (11:16)
  4. Context, setting, timing: Know your environment and who’s present.
     • Matt: "Professional setting—be careful." (14:05)
• Humor as Bonding: Gentle ribbing signals affection and trust, but knowing someone’s sensitive spots is key.
  • Matt: "I think it’s a sign of earned trust and love." (10:53)

4. The Comedy Central Roast Debate (11:35 – 13:33)

• Reflection on public/comic roasts and their boundaries.
  • Matt: "You really shouldn’t be hitting wounds that are really, really sore." (11:46)
  • Aaron: "Those are also professional comedians ... I don’t love when they have like a non comedian on who they’ve written jokes for." (13:05)
• The phrase "we only roast those we love" is examined and endorsed as a guideline.

5. Using Smack Talk to Address Real Issues (15:10 – 17:31)

• Can joking be a way to ‘rip the Band-Aid off’ difficult topics? Yes, but only if mutual trust exists.
• The viral Conan & Will Arnett moment after Conan's parents' death is cited as an example of humor helping with grief among true friends.
  • Matt: "The reason it went so viral ... it reminded everybody, that's a healthy friendship." (16:26)
• If you haven't 'earned' the right, off-color jokes will offend.

6. Listener Question: When Teasing Isn't Fun Anymore (20:06 – 31:27)

• Scenario: A listener asks how to stop friends from repeatedly joking about his finances, which is now hitting a nerve.
• Key Advice:
  • You’re NOT obligated to laugh every time—feelings are valid and it's okay to voice discomfort (22:53).
    • Aaron: "There's no rule that you have to roll with every punch that comes your way." (21:54)
  • Best approach is one-on-one: select a friend who will grasp your discomfort and spread the word.
    • Aaron: "There's one guy who's like the nice one who's just doing it and then you tell him and then he'll tell the other people." (25:50)
  • Don’t bottle it up or respond by escalating—direct communication is healthiest.
    • Matt: "Your friends aren't mind readers. They have no idea that you've built this thing up into World War III. And then you come out guns a blazing, and then you cross a line you can't uncross." (28:13)
• What’s 'Off Limits'?
  • Wives and kids: typically hands-off.
  • Medical or deeply personal issues: context dependent, but should err on the side of caution.

7. Why Men Smack Talk: Vulnerability in Disguise (32:05 – 32:28)

• Matt: "It's a way to bond. That is a way to get vulnerable without being vulnerable, actually." (32:11)
• Aaron: "But why can't we just be freaking vulnerable, though?" (32:20)
• The hosts reflect that ribbing allows men to express closeness and care when it's harder to be emotionally open.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the rite of passage:
  "You know, it's not real until you start smack talking each other."
  — Matt (07:44)

• On the unwritten contract:
  "We only roast those we love."
  — Matt (13:33)

• On expressing boundaries:
  "You are—their feelings are valid. There's no rule that you have to roll with every punch that comes your way."
  — Aaron (21:54)

• On escalation dangers:
  "Sometimes people have it bottled up for too long ... and then you cross a line you can’t uncross. That’s the danger with not saying anything."
  — Matt (28:13)

• On smack talk as vulnerability:
  "It's a way to get vulnerable without being vulnerable, actually."
  — Matt (32:11)

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Key Timestamps

• 00:44 – 05:08: Tom Cruise sighting banter, setting the self-deprecating tone
• 05:08 – 10:14: Definitions, boundaries, and "first joke" moments in new friendships
• 10:14 – 14:14: Rules—symmetry, intent, and setting for healthy smack talk
• 11:35 – 13:33: Debate on Comedy Central roasts, cruelty vs. consent
• 15:10 – 17:31: Can banter help friends address real tension?
• 20:06 – 31:27: Listener question—handling banter that crosses the line, and strategies for speaking up
• 32:05 – 32:28: Reflections on why men use smack talk to bond

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Final Thoughts

Matt and Aaron assert that well-executed smack talk is both a bonding tool among friends and a sign of deep trust—but only when handled with care, good intent, and equity. Boundaries and context matter: you can (and should) stand up for yourself if jokes cut too deep. Balancing humor and empathy is the key to keeping friendships strong… and knowing when to swap ball busting for true vulnerability is, in itself, a life skill worth mastering.

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To share your stories or questions about friendship and smack talk, visit @manoftheyearpodcast on Instagram.

Transcript

[Aaron Caro]

Man of the year.

[Matt Ritter]

Man of the Year. Man of the Year. Welcome to the number one friendship podcast in the country. I'm Matt Ritter.

[Aaron Caro]

I'm Aaron Caro.

[Matt Ritter]

Guys, good audible. Get the audiobook. It's, it's, it makes a great gift to yourself. As we're in the new year and we're focusing on self improvement, the best thing you can do for yourself is have better friendships, wouldn't you agree?

[Aaron Caro]

I would say getting our audible book will improve our lives. I don't know about theirs.

[Matt Ritter]

Make our lives better for sure. Yeah, for sure make our lives better. But we appreciate all of you guys listening and all the comments and it's, it's great. You know Kira, I was thinking about. We went out to dinner recently with the boys and I was thinking about a topic that we hadn't covered in a while is the positive effect or, or the benefits of a good old fashioned talking.

[Aaron Caro]

While we're talking about our dinner, should we mention our celebrity sighting?

[Matt Ritter]

Yes. Only because we don't really do a lot of name dropping on the pod. And I don't know about you, but I never really get excited to see celebs. I've lived in LA long enough. I think this might be the first time that I was genuinely like my jaw dropped.

[Aaron Caro]

I also don't think it counts as name dropping. It's not like we hung out with him. We just saw him.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah. I'm like hey, yeah, we're hanging out with this now. Yeah, you're right. We did just see. Well, we were sitting across from. Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

Guys, we were at dinner and who walked in? Tom Cruise.

[Matt Ritter]

He ran in, he scooted in, he sprinted. I think he's taller than you.

[Aaron Caro]

He was wearing large boots.

[Matt Ritter]

Did you see that? Did. Can you confirm that there were big boots at the bottom.

[Aaron Caro]

I think he's, I think he's a big booty guy. I, I liked his. It's kind of like what you were trying to do last year or two years ago. Like, like an old, a middle aged guy with long flowing hair but his just beautiful.

[Matt Ritter]

But I was trying, I was, I was attempting to do it. It. You know the results were mixed.

[Aaron Caro]

But your hair is straight. He has like flowy like gold. That's the problem.

[Matt Ritter]

My hair is too stick straight. He's got this natural bouffant.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah.

[Matt Ritter]

Isn't it? Wouldn't you call it.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah. That was just a good, it was a good old fashioned celeb sighting. Nobody was bothering him.

[Matt Ritter]

You know, it made me feel like maybe Hollywood's not dead.

[Aaron Caro]

I don't know if I would go or. No, no.

[Matt Ritter]

Does that, does that mean Hollywood is dead? If we see Tom Cruise.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah. If we're eating dinner at the same place Tom Cruise is. And no tipping. It's over.

[Matt Ritter]

It's over. It's over. Like signs of the apocalypse. Tom Cruise just at a regular table next to you at a restaurant?

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah.

[Matt Ritter]

Like, does that mean he can't afford to buy out the restaurant anymore when he goes out with his friends?

[Aaron Caro]

You think they do a. Like, what do you think the protocol is? Do they call ahead and say, Tom Cruise is coming in or.

[Matt Ritter]

Absolutely. And let's, let's be clear. There were security. It was, you know, it was not unchecked.

[Aaron Caro]

Kind of crazy that he has a whole second table just for security guards.

[Matt Ritter]

Those guys are eating well.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah.

[Matt Ritter]

This was an upscale restaurant.

[Aaron Caro]

You know what I was thinking about? Do you think it's hard to. I think the same thing about Secret Service. A little different. I think it's hard to stay on. On readiness when you're like. I mean, no one's attacking Tom Cruise. Knock on wood, right? Is it an easy job?

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, at a fine dining restaurant like that. Yeah. I don't know, man. They were focused on their steak. No, I, I think they always stay ready, those guys. Everything is like, around that.

[Aaron Caro]

But like, you know how, like, there's a Secret Service person who, like, stands outside the president's bedroom, like, when he's sleeping or.

[Matt Ritter]

Oh, you think that guy ever takes a nap?

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, I mean, it's like that tonight. Yeah. Yeah.

[Matt Ritter]

Let me tell you something. My night nurse, I caught her napping.

[Aaron Caro]

Is she supposed to stay up the whole night?

[Matt Ritter]

Allegedly. Here's the thing. It's like, it's like, because your kid is, you know, a newborn baby and you're not up and you're paying this person to stay up just in case.

[Aaron Caro]

Right.

[Matt Ritter]

But, like, unless the baby's awake, you don't need to be awake.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, I love that.

[Matt Ritter]

But, but here's the funny thing. They, they, they pretend that they don't sleep.

[Aaron Caro]

In what way?

[Matt Ritter]

Like, they will not admit to having felt fallen asleep. Like. No, I watched you on the monitor. Your eyes were closed. Like. No, I just had my eyes closed. Okay.

[Aaron Caro]

All right. So we Shoehood shoehorned in our Tom Cruise sighting. I. I apologize. I interrupted you.

[Matt Ritter]

Oh, yeah. So, you know, I wanted to talk. I feel we haven't talked enough about talking. Talking smack to each other about how healthy that is for friendship. I Was just thinking because. Because after the dinner, like, our dinners are generally us ripping on each other just so.

[Aaron Caro]

No, we try not to curse on this episode. Is that what we're doing?

[Matt Ritter]

Well, I mean, I try not to, but we called this talking. You know, if I titled it Talking Sh. Star T. No.

[Aaron Caro]

An honest question. If we use the S word, will it, like, downgrade our pot? The visibility of the pod?

[Matt Ritter]

That's what I allegedly claim to you. I don't even know if that's true. What do I know? I just made that up and I, I ran with it.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, okay, well, talking smack, talking, fine. Yes, it's, it's. It's. Listen, our friend group is. Has a good mix of ball busting and we, we got, we had, we had some deep conversations.

[Matt Ritter]

Yes.

[Aaron Caro]

Some of it was before you got there. You just didn't tell us.

[Matt Ritter]

All the nice, all the nice stuff happened before I got there. Then it became pure first talk.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, well, can we. Let's do some definitions. Right? Like, what do you consider smack talking among buddies?

[Matt Ritter]

Well, I consider it kind of the things that we know about each other that, like we poke and prod about our. I guess it's kind of like our, our. You could say it's our flaws, like poking at your flaws. But it also is like knowing you, that's, that's how I see it. Knowing the real you.

[Aaron Caro]

It's when you are smack talking someone you don't know that well. It's just mean when you're smack talking someone you do know.

[Matt Ritter]

So I wanted to talk about that. Actually, the reason that smack talking is so good is because it's. There are rules about it. And so the number one rule is you can't talk smack to strangers.

[Aaron Caro]

First of all, Matt, you just sounded like the guy in Die Hard, the first one that John McLean captures. And he's like, you can't kill me.

[Matt Ritter]

There are rules for police. Oh, yeah, the German guy.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you smack a stranger, you get your ass beat.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah, it's just, I think it's, it's like. But I do believe that not everybody understands that rule.

[Aaron Caro]

Well, I mean, if you, if you meet someone brand new and you're making. I mean, listen, I've certainly crossed the line, made fun of someone I didn't know well.

[Matt Ritter]

So here's the thing, what I was gonna say about that. That's the rule. The rule is like, it's for your friends, but ultimately to get to a level of friendship, you. That's part of it. So there Is a, like a moment where it's like, you know, in every friendship where the first smack talk starts happening. You know, it's not real until you start smack talking each other.

[Aaron Caro]

I was just gonna say.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah, sorry, does that make sense?

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, I was literally just gonna say, you know that point in a new relationship, a new friendship where you like, you're not exactly sure where you are and you drop a little joke in the text thread and they go, haha. And you're like, okay, good.

[Matt Ritter]

I, I actually find that there's a good moment where like your newer friends then meet your like older friends and like they, that's like their permission to roast you a little.

[Aaron Caro]

Oh, so everyone's roasting you.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah, I think that's like the, I find that to be like a threshold moment in a friendship where like, you bring a new friend in with your old friends and like, they have permission for the first time to like, not just be pure nice to you.

[Aaron Caro]

You know what I, I use as a little signpost? Let's say you have a new friendship. You're not quite sure what the level is. I make fun of myself first self smack talk.

[Matt Ritter]

It's good. Look, and I, I think so. Yeah. I wanted to talk about the rules of, of smack talk on this. So number one is you can only do it when you're actually friends, right? Yeah, there's a lot of guys that kind of do it with strangers and I just, you know, know it's fine because I think what I was saying, like, don't, you know, it's not really great to just shit talk strangers, but at the same time, if you're trying to create or build on a friendship acquaintanceship, I think it is important to, to build that in somehow.

[Aaron Caro]

Right before the, the rule. Should we just like even define what we're even talking about? Like we say smack talk, we're like poking fun at somebody, making jokes I. About them or.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah, I mean, you know, sometimes somebody has like an outfit that everybody makes fun of or you know, something about them that everybody, you know, makes fun of. But I think it's. You have to be careful. Right. I think there has to be already an intimacy right there. Already has to feel, has to feel like there's a certain safety. Right?

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah. I mean, you also have to know someone well enough to know what to talk them about.

[Matt Ritter]

Yes, Right, right, right, right, right, right, right. Also, you know, I think symmetry matters in smack talking. I, I don't like it if one person is the consistent punchline.

[Aaron Caro]

But I think you And I are probably giving more than we're getting.

[Matt Ritter]

Giving more smack talk.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah. Because we're comedians. I don't know.

[Matt Ritter]

I take a fair bit of punishment, take a fair bit of abuse.

[Aaron Caro]

You're, you're worse for the wear, my friend.

[Matt Ritter]

You do too. I don't know if that's true. I feel, you know, you get a fair, you get a health.

[Aaron Caro]

Oh, yeah, no, I get it. I get it left, right and center.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah. I'm saying. But I, I think it's great. I think it's a, it's a sign of earned trust and love.

[Aaron Caro]

And unless the person. Listen, I'm sure we're going to get to it, but are we, Are there more rules that I interrupted you on?

[Matt Ritter]

Well, yeah, there are a few rules, I think.

[Aaron Caro]

Okay.

[Matt Ritter]

I think intent is important.

[Aaron Caro]

Oh, okay.

[Matt Ritter]

Intention can't be to be cruel.

[Aaron Caro]

No, cruel is bad. I hate that.

[Matt Ritter]

So I think a lot of times, some, not a lot of times, but I think some people misjudge, you know what it is. Like, it's not meant to be cruelty. This is not bullying. Like, it's meant to be light hearted.

[Aaron Caro]

I have a question. I'm raising my hand, by the way. You can watch our episodes on YouTube. Go to many of your podcast dot com. What's your take? I actually don't know the answer to this. What's your take on, like, the Comedy Central roasts?

[Matt Ritter]

Well, I think they're great because the person who signs up for it is, is signaling, like, you can go, go there. But again, here's was one of my other lines. You really shouldn't be hitting wounds that are really, really sore. Like, there was the, what was it? Like, the Tom Brady rose and they went after his, like, wife and kids and stuff. Like, I don't know, man.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, that, that's the thing. But once you sign up, you can't give, you know, so I don't know. That's why I was curious what you think about it, because I don't know if I, I mean, we all have sensitivities, you know, like. Yeah, yeah, I guess I give Tom Brady.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah.

[Matt Ritter]

I, I, I was gonna say, I think, like, I look, I love the roast. I think they're amazing. But you're right, I think the roasts always end up crossing a line that that person on stage doesn't really want. Right. They sign up and they realize, like, I'm not sure I feel good about this anymore. Right. There's always a moment where you're watching a roast where at the Beginning they're like, ah, I'm a fun guy. I'm a fun guy. And then you see that little tier form, you know, you see that to your form on every, every Roasty's face. But. And again, so I don't think, you know, the good smack talking should, should really like cross that line.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah. I mean, those are also professional comedians. Yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't love when they have like a non comedian on who they've written jokes for him or her.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah, yeah, they do that a lot more now than they used to. Yeah, it used to be like Jeff Ross and Don Rickles, you know.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah.

[Matt Ritter]

And now it's like anybody who's a d lister that they want to write lines for.

[Aaron Caro]

So. Do you believe the, the phrase we only roast those we love?

[Matt Ritter]

I believe that should be the rule is what I'm saying.

[Aaron Caro]

I would say I generally don't make fun of people that I don't like because I'm like, who cares?

[Matt Ritter]

Right, right, right. The other rule I was going to say is context, setting, timing. Also like you, you got to know where you're at, where you are. Like, know your surroundings. If you're going to just start talking.

[Aaron Caro]

Smack to somebody, like, by way, also, who are the other people there?

[Matt Ritter]

Right. You know, professional setting, be careful.

[Aaron Caro]

Right. Or like, you know, you're being a wingman for everybody at the bar.

[Matt Ritter]

Right, right. You know, you can't, you can't undercut.

[Aaron Caro]

Because you know my beef. Yeah. You know, my beef with you was always when you're wingmanning me, you go the other way.

[Matt Ritter]

Over overselling, over selling. Oh, he wrote eight books.

[Aaron Caro]

He goes, you go, have you met the. Well, you met Aaron. Oh my God, this guy's a millionaire.

[Matt Ritter]

I said, yeah, he had a two hour Comedy Central special.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, you double everything. Okay, what are the rules?

[Matt Ritter]

So that was. I think you have to give as good as you take. I'm saying you have to take as good as you give as a rule.

[Aaron Caro]

Right.

[Matt Ritter]

Like if you're. I hate, really hate the people who are, you know, always talking smack and then cannot take it.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, yeah, that's. That's rough.

[Matt Ritter]

You can't be a thin skinned bully.

[Aaron Caro]

Right. But I guess I would say most bullies are.

[Matt Ritter]

Right. Right. So I think those are generally my rules. It's like, it's not meant to be bullying. It's actually a, a sign of showing love. Do you think, okay, this is a question. Do you think it's a good way to get past Things that you have a real issue about.

[Aaron Caro]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, let's say. Yeah. You know, you just, I think it's like a, like a ripping off the Band Aid moment. And then the other person goes, too soon. And you go, hahaha.

[Matt Ritter]

Right, you're done. Right. Well, I was gonna say, you know, the reason I, I brought up this episode is because I don't know if anybody listening has seen this clip of Conan talking to Will Arnett. It's an incredible clip. We should put it in the notes. Show notes. But right after Conan's. Both of his parents died. I didn't know that. Both of his parents died within days of each other.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah.

[Matt Ritter]

Really, really dark stuff. And Will Arnett was like, bateman killed your father and just ended up in this whole back and forth roast. I mean, he's like, it was great. He was like, what's your sister's address? He's coming. It just reminded me, you know, I think the reason it went so viral, it's like it reminded everybody, like, that's a healthy friendship.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah. And of course, context mattered.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

Two comedians talking.

[Matt Ritter]

Right. If it's not somebody who can handle that, I wouldn't lead with Dead Dad.

[Aaron Caro]

Right. Also, they're good friends. It's not like, you know, a random person should have the funeral.

[Matt Ritter]

Right. And I, I do think so. When people get offended, I don't think they're always offended by the joke. I think they're offended because they don't feel you've earned it.

[Aaron Caro]

Right, Right.

[Matt Ritter]

You know?

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Ritter]

It's more like, it's not like, how could you say that? It's like, who is this guy to be saying that?

[Aaron Caro]

Right. Usually, I mean, I mean, Will Arnett and Bateman are probably the only people in the world who could be like, you know.

[Matt Ritter]

Right, exactly. Right. That's like inner core, core stuff. So I, I just, I just wanted to talk about it because I do think there are some unwritten rules of talk. It's meant to relieve tension, it's meant to bond. It's not meant to create tension. Right. So if it's creating tension, you're doing it wrong.

[Aaron Caro]

By the way, to your point about context, I looked it up when you sent me the clip. I mean, they're. His parents were 95 or 92 and 95. So, you know, it would be different if the, you know, the dad was young. Should we take a question?

[Matt Ritter]

Yes, I've got a good question.

[Aaron Caro]

We'll be right back with the listener question.

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[Matt Ritter]

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[Aaron Caro]

Okay guys, this is asking for a friend. If you have a friendship question or ethical dilemma, send it to us on Instagram man of the Year podcast and we will answer it on the show. Matt, take it away.

[Matt Ritter]

Kiro and Matt, my friends and I talk a lot of to each other, which I normally love, but lately they keep joking that I'm broke. Like every time the check comes it's don't worry, we got you. Put them on a payment plan. I'm not actually broke, but money's tight right now and the Joke is starting to hit a nerve. I don't want to kill the banter or seem overly sensitive, but how do I get them to stop without making it weird?

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, this is, this is, this has come up of, like, even us, you know, people are sensitive. There's a. One thing. I think we used to say one. Everyone gets one thing they could be sensitive about.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

And it's not always clear to the other person because friends are my readers. If you're busting balls all day, that X topic is. Is an issue.

[Matt Ritter]

You know what's funny? The money one is a really hard one. And, and, like, maybe people should steer away from it, but it also seems to be in a guy group to go to.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah. I don't know.

[Matt Ritter]

Actually tend to. I do feel like that. That always tends to be. Comes up in all our listener questions. In real life, I feel like people are always doing that talking smack about money stuff. Sometimes I don't, I don't know if I, I don't know if I, If I approve of it.

[Aaron Caro]

No, I actually would push back. I don't think we, we make those jokes.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

We usually get more personal.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

Than that. So generally, our friends aren't broke, so. Yeah. But. Okay, well, first step is like, you are, Your feelings are valid. Like, there's no rule that you have to roll with every punch that comes your way.

[Matt Ritter]

Yes. That's actually, that's a good, That's a very good. Let's just pause on that for a second because I think that's important. I, I think I live by the code that I do have to roll with everything.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah. You, you, you, you need to improve that.

[Matt Ritter]

Right. And I think a lot of people, I, I, I think, you know, again, part of my evolution as a friend, as an adult, is like, okay, I have to kind of take care of myself more. And so if, if you're anything like me, if you're one of those guys that does roll with everything, you don't have to. I think it's good. I mean, I think as a default, it is good to roll with things and let things slide. But you're not obligated to let everything slide.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah. And also a comment here or there, it sounds like this guy, these guys are really hitting him.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah. Often put them on a spot, by the way. Put them on a payment plan. That's a good one. It's like, it reminds me of, of goodwill hunting.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah.

[Matt Ritter]

Can I get a double burger? Like, yeah. Put it on layaway. Like your couch. Like your mother's Couch.

[Aaron Caro]

Now everything is layaway. Now they've got. What's the thing? Like every time I check out online, it's like, do you want to pay later?

[Matt Ritter]

Is that right?

[Aaron Caro]

Have you not seen that?

[Matt Ritter]

No. You mean like at a grocery store? What? Where?

[Aaron Caro]

No, online. Not online, like an online. Yeah, on the Internet.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

Have you ever seen that? Like Klarna and pay later about Klarna?

[Matt Ritter]

Because it's the world's youngest billionaire, isn't it?

[Aaron Caro]

Oh, is it? Oh, I didn't even know that. But yeah, I mean, they just like. I mean it's. It's a. I don't say it's a scam, but you know, you. You basically like you check out whatever for 10 bucks and it's like you want to pay nothing now.

[Matt Ritter]

And I did see that we're exploding with this short term kind of debt thing that's going on now.

[Aaron Caro]

This. I mean, the founders of. Of Klarna are men now.

[Matt Ritter]

There's a woman. Maybe it's not Klarna. There was a young woman that was listed as one of the youngest billionaires.

[Aaron Caro]

Oh, and it was a pay later thing.

[Matt Ritter]

Thought so. Thought it was Klarna, but I guess I'm wrong.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, it's like three Swedish dudes. Oh, no, you're right. No, it's Kashi.

[Matt Ritter]

Kalshi. Is that the same thing? What does Kyle. She do?

[Aaron Caro]

Wow, she's pretty cute.

[Matt Ritter]

Daryl's gonna email her right after the show. We'd like to have you on the man of the year pod.

[Aaron Caro]

I don't even know what the hell. I don't even know what Kyle she is.

[Matt Ritter]

Brenner just had Kalshi this morning.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah. Oh, it's. It's like a betting market. It's like a. It's like a betting. Some sort of betting market. I don't know. Anyway. Wow. 27. 27 years old. Jesus. Former ballerina. Anyway. All right, we don't want to get sidetracked. What was my thing?

[Matt Ritter]

It's like Poly Market.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, exactly.

[Matt Ritter]

Okay.

[Aaron Caro]

You gotta stay away.

[Matt Ritter]

Getting out of control. That betting's getting out of control.

[Aaron Caro]

Listen, you, you, you, you. You are the Benjamin Mackenzie of. Of sports betting.

[Matt Ritter]

I'm the og.

[Aaron Caro]

Like the person. The person ringing the alarm.

[Matt Ritter]

Alarm. Oh, yeah, totally. So. I know, I know that. I know that. I know the perils.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah.

[Matt Ritter]

So, yes, back to the listener question. Look, it's hard because your friends are going to do what they're gonna do.

[Aaron Caro]

Well, not unless you tell them.

[Matt Ritter]

No, I know, but can you. I'm Just saying. Can you completely cut it off? Probably not. In the group setting, you might have to go. If you go to the. What do you think? Approach group setting or pick, pick, pick one person to spread.

[Aaron Caro]

I think you go one on one because you know, if it's a bunch of guys busting balls, there's one guy who's like the nice one who's just doing it and then you tell him and then he'll tell the other people.

[Matt Ritter]

I think that's probably the way to.

[Aaron Caro]

Mitigate because let's be honest, friends aren't mind readers. Your buddies, although they should be able to read the room, practice radical self awareness. They may just think it's funny because also you may be laughing with them just to try to get by.

[Matt Ritter]

Right. And again, like it's a love language. Right. Most of them just think that they're being your friend and like roasting you is part and parcel of that friendship. But if it's to a, a degree and it's a subject that's really bothering you. Yes. You should not let it get, let it go.

[Aaron Caro]

All right, so let's say you're, you're on the other side of this. Someone comes to you, hey, Matt, you know, you were making fun of my, you know, I've got him going bald. I'm kind of sensitive about it, so could you lay off?

[Matt Ritter]

Honestly, I'd be like, sorry, I did not even realize that's most likely how it would go. That, that's our listener. Just, just realize that if you have that they're gonna be like, oh, I didn't even realize it was a big deal. No big deal, man.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, yeah. And I think also most of the time it's that. Yeah. And then I think that's a, that's a time maybe for, for a self deprecating joke, you know? And you know, you're like, listen, I wish I could get a payment plan because blah, blah, blah, something else, you know.

[Matt Ritter]

Right, right, right. Yeah. Because like you don't want to be the guy that can't take a joke.

[Aaron Caro]

Right. Well, that's what I was going to say. There are people, sensitive people who you can't, you just can't joke and that's fine.

[Matt Ritter]

It's okay. Right? We do have friends like that and that's fine. And I respect that. Know, I don't. It's like we don't need to roast every single person.

[Aaron Caro]

No, but it's more fun.

[Matt Ritter]

Maybe we do. Yeah, maybe we do.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah. But sorry, what was the thing you had just said about you don't have. You. You do have to take the joke, or you don't have to take the joke, or you just said, no, you don't have.

[Matt Ritter]

You're not obligated to take every joke. But I. Look, I. I just think it's, you know, it's important also to not be seen as somebody who cannot take a joke.

[Aaron Caro]

All right, another option. What about people are making fun of you, you don't really like it. What if you come back, like, 7,000 times harder?

[Matt Ritter]

Well, that's what I think. Sometimes people do, and they just go, like, nuclear. And you go, whoa, whoa. They go, your wife's ugly.

[Aaron Caro]

Whoa. Right, right, right.

[Matt Ritter]

What. What's happening here? I thought we were friends. Like, I. I do think sometimes people have it bottled up for too long and haven't said anything about it. And your friends aren't mind readers. They have no idea that you've built this thing up into World War iii. And then you come out guns a blazing, and then you cross a line you can't uncross. That's the danger with not saying anything.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, also, you just get a better job and stop being such a broke piece of.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah, exactly. Stop being broke, and you won't have these problems at all.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah.

[Matt Ritter]

Nice talk to our listener. I love that. Wait, so.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah.

[Matt Ritter]

Have you ever been anywhere where somebody just went nuclear and crossed the line? I'm trying to think. Because that's an amazing moment.

[Aaron Caro]

Well, I'm also trying to think if I've ever been offended and said something.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

I'm sure in the course of the.

[Matt Ritter]

Of.

[Aaron Caro]

Of my life, you know, I've been. I. I've. I've. I've said something.

[Matt Ritter]

What's off limits? Wives and kids.

[Aaron Caro]

Wives. And Unless you're doing it yourself.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah. Wives and kids are just off limits, even if the person's doing it.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah. No, no, but I'm saying you can make fun of your own wife and kids.

[Matt Ritter]

Yes. I'm saying. But even if that person is the other.

[Aaron Caro]

Okay. Wife and kids. I mean, like, I. It depends because, like, you know, I don't know. I mean, I was gonna say death, but that's. We literally just said.

[Matt Ritter]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

I mean, if people have medical. But, you know, it depends.

[Matt Ritter]

Right.

[Aaron Caro]

I think it's all context. Context dependent. I mean, again, we got to practice radical self awareness. What's going on?

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah, I called one of our friends the other day, and it just. First thing I said on the phone was, I go, you're not gonna die. On us, are you.

[Aaron Caro]

Oh, right, right. Our friend with a medical issue. Right. And that was contact. Old friend.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah. That was how I opened the call.

[Aaron Caro]

Right, right. Yeah.

[Matt Ritter]

And he appreciated it.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah. Or you're like, listen, like, can I get your PlayStation?

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah. Right, right, right. Let's listen. I. I agree. Once you're close enough to somebody, there's almost nothing you can't joke about. Gets real dark. That's when you know you're real close with somebody. The darker it gets.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah. Oh, God. It's darkness. My old friend. All right, do we answer this question right?

[Matt Ritter]

I think the go to is. Your suggestion is pick the one person who will not mock you for coming to them about it and see if you can circle not doing it. I know. Or you could just look, or you could just be like, guys, all right. No, it's enough. All right? We get it.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Matt Ritter]

Like, I think if you say it like that, like, how do you say it to the group? It's enough, guys. It's enough. It's not cool.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd be like, they're gonna rip you even harder. I don't know. I mean, every friend group is different. I mean.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah, it sounds like his group. They. They, they. They tease hard.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, you. You say, come on, guys, and you make eye contact, and one of them goes, okay. Yeah, yeah. Or, yeah, again, if. Yeah, they keep doing it, then you just go. Go nuclear. Blow it up nuclear.

[Matt Ritter]

I love the visual. I just love. I love to be a fly on the wall when somebody's making fun of this guy for Venmo and then he just obliterates them.

[Aaron Caro]

All right, guys, that was asking for a friend. If you have a friendship question, send it to us on Instagram and we'll answer on the show. All right, Matt, we're wrapping up here. Any final thoughts on talking?

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah, it's great. I love it.

[Aaron Caro]

I would like to hear from our listeners some good examples of either should talk gone right or should talk on wrong.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah. I think it's a beautiful thing, but it has to be executed well.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah. And we haven't even talked about why men even do it in the first place, as opposed to just having a normal conversation.

[Matt Ritter]

Well, it's a way to bond. That is a way to get vulnerable without being vulnerable, actually.

[Aaron Caro]

Right. Which is like. But why can't we just be freaking vulnerable, though?

[Matt Ritter]

We just. We can't. It's that.

[Aaron Caro]

It's like, I killed your dad. We can't even have a real conversation.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah, yeah, you have to be like I killed your father.

[Aaron Caro]

All right guys, send us your smack talk your smack talk stories. Thank you for listening. Always remember, be good to yourself. Beget your friends. Listen.

[Matt Ritter]

Love you buddy.

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[Aaron Caro]

I wake up.

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[Aaron Caro]

If you like the show, please take a moment to rate, review and subscribe. It really does help the show to grow. Thank you for listening.

[Matt Ritter]

SA.