#172 - Do Your Friends Need to Change With You?

Summary

Man of the Year – Champions of Friendship

Episode #172: Do Your Friends Need to Change With You?
Release Date: February 17, 2026
Hosts: Matt Ritter & Aaron Karo

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Matt and Aaron dive into a nuanced question: Should friendships evolve when one or both friends change? They tackle listener anxieties about outgrowing their social circles, what personal growth or change means for long-term friendships, and how to handle feeling bored or disconnected from old friends. Drawing on decades of friendship experience (and plenty of humor), they discuss shifting dynamics, validate the inevitability of change, and share practical tips—including how to "audit" your social universe.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Growth vs. Change in Friendship

• Growth is Not Always Shared:
  • Matt introduces the topic by challenging the Simon Sinek quote: “Friendship is when two people agree to grow together” (01:32).
  • Matt: “I totally disagree... I think it's an agreement to accept other people's growth and change. I don't think you're required to grow along with your friends.” (01:48)
• Types of Change:
  • Aaron and Matt list common ways people change: marriage, kids, sobriety, shifting values, political views, financial status, fitness priorities, even sense of humor.
  • Aaron: “Are we using grow and change interchangeably? Because they could be different.” (03:08)

2. Outgrowing Friends—Myth or Reality?

• Friendships Have Chapters:
  • Matt: “I think a lot of people are waking up to this idea that friendships sometimes are chapters in your life, like dating.” (05:39)
• The 'Seasons of Friendship' Concept:
  • Both hosts advocate seeing friendships as having natural rhythms or ‘seasons’ rather than permanent all-or-nothing relationships.
  • Matt: “Maybe this isn't our season right now… that gives you some distance in a healthy way.” (09:39)
  • Aaron: “My friend Lindsay always says, ‘He’s on that journey right now… and I support it.’” (10:14)

3. Compatibility: Staying Connected Despite Change

• Flexibility Over Sameness:
  • Matt reframes the Simon Sinek idea: “I think a friendship is an agreement to be flexible… an agreement to accept those changes, so long as the values are still aligned. Or some of them.” (09:02–09:17)
• When You Just Don’t Enjoy It Anymore:
  • The hosts discuss what to do when a friendship simply loses its enjoyment—even in the absence of major changes.
  • Aaron: “It’s valid. There’s nothing wrong with that. It’s pretty common.” (11:54)

4. Practical Advice: Social Universe & Inventory

• Taking Stock Once a Year:
  • Matt and Aaron recommend a “social inventory”—taking annual stock of who’s still in your universe, inspired by Aaron’s spreadsheet habit.
  • Aaron: “Once a year on my birthday, I… keep that list and have the list from every year... So it’s my social universe—who all my friends are.” (13:15)
  • Aaron: "If I haven't talked to this person in a year, either they're out, or I need to re-engage." (13:28)

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Listener Q&A:

"Should I Stay With ‘Blah’ Friends or Risk Having None?" (16:38)

• Question Recap:
  • Listener feels bored with current friends but fears having nobody if they pull away.
  • “Is it better to stay in ‘blah’ friendships than risk having none?” (16:38)
• Matt’s Take:
  • “A lot of us hang on to unhealthy friendships, and the moment we cut them off, we open up our world for new friendships.” (17:39)
• Aaron’s Advice:
  • “Let’s make some new friends while we've still got the blah.” (17:17)
  • “You don't really need to dump friends. Unless you're seeing them every week, you're just gonna explore all of our tips and hacks for making new friends while these other people are around.” (19:51)
• Don’t Feel Guilty About a ‘Fallow’ Period:
  • Matt: “You are going to go through a fallow period of friendship at that level… that’s okay.” (24:39)
  • Aaron: “A little me time… is called for. Treat yourself.” (25:26)
• Audit for Staleness:
  • Matt: “Is there a way to reinvigorate friendships?... Maybe try new things together.” (22:12)
  • Aaron suggests a “boys trip” or adventure (22:43).

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Notable Quotes

“Friendship is not an agreement to grow together. It’s an agreement to accept other people’s growth and change.”
— Matt Ritter (01:48)

“There are ways to fit a friend into your life—whether it’s fitness, sobriety, kids, blah, blah, blah. And it’s not about quantity of time.”
— Matt Ritter (10:58)

“If I'm not feeling it, I'm not stealing. It doesn't make any sense.”
— Aaron Karo (12:01)

“Just because you change doesn’t mean a friendship has to be excised from your life.”
— Matt Ritter (08:17)

"Even good friendships can get boring, can't they?... You gotta spice things up. What's friendship lingerie?"
— Aaron Karo (23:11)

“Your friends aren’t gonna know that you’re like, out seeing new friends. It’s not like when you’re in a relationship and you’re sneaking around on Tinder.”
— Matt Ritter (20:10)

“You do not need to grow—[or] both need to be crushing it, or both need to be sober. You should not be resistant to your friend's growth.”
— Matt Ritter (31:30)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:32 – Simon Sinek’s friendship theory & why Matt disagrees
• 03:08–04:15 – Kinds of personal change and impact on friendships
• 05:39 – The “friendship as chapters” concept
• 09:02–09:17 – Flexibility as the core of sustaining friendships
• 13:15 – Aaron’s annual “social inventory” / friend spreadsheet
• 16:38 – Listener question: “Should I stay in blah friendships?”
• 22:12 – Tips to reinvigorate stale friendships
• 24:39 – Accepting ‘fallow’ periods in your social life
• 31:30 – Final word: Don’t resist your friend’s change; support it
• 32:25 – “It’s okay to have no friends at some points.”

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Takeaways and Final Thoughts

• Don’t Fear Change: Friendship can tolerate uneven rates of growth or change. The ability to accept change is more important than mirroring it.
• Audit Your Social Universe: Reflect periodically if your friendships (old or new) are serving you or if it’s time to seek out new connections.
• Space is Normal: It’s healthy to experience ‘fallow’ periods—periods without a tight friend group. Use the space for personal growth or to explore new relationships.
• Be Flexible, Not Rigid: Friendship isn’t about following parallel paths but about supporting and not resisting the inevitable changes in each other’s lives.
• Reignite or Release: Consider if a friendship needs more effort—a new experience together—or if it’s time to embrace the drift.

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Note: For more friendship hacks or to send in your questions, visit: Instagram.com/manoftheyearpodcast

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“Life is undefeated. So roll with it.”
— Aaron Karo (32:35)

Transcript

[Aaron Caro]

Man of the Year.

[Matt Ritter]

Man of the Year. Man of the Year. Welcome to the number one friendship podcast in the country. I'm Matt Ritter.

[Aaron Caro]

I'm Aaron Caro.

[Matt Ritter]

Guys, go to manofthe.com, go to YouTube, go to audible.com thebuddy system. We have so much content. There's so much wise advice on how to make friends and maintain friendships. It's going to be very helpful to you to do that. I wanted to dive into a topic that I don't think we've talked about much. Maybe we talked about it a while ago, but I think it's safe to say that both of us have changed in a lot of ways in the past few years. I think mostly healthy, but maybe some negative. You never know. You know, changes are good and bad, but I don't think we've really delved into the topic of what happens when you change but your friends don't. Because I feel that there's a lot of versions of our listener questions that are some sort of. The subtext is essentially like, I'm not sure if I should still be friends with these people or I'm not the same person, but they're pegging me into this box and, you know, kind of what to do. So I thought we could just kind of talk about what's really going on here, just in general, and how to kind of handle, you know, what happens when you change. Right. I think, look, growth is healthy, and everybody's on an individual growth journey. So I heard Simon Sinek say that he thought friendship was when two people agree to grow together. And I totally disagree.

[Aaron Caro]

Who, who, what is. Who is that guy?

[Matt Ritter]

I don't know. I don't know. He's a TED Talk guy. But. But I totally disagree. I'll tell you why. Because I don't think that it's an agreement to grow together. I think it's an agreement to accept other people's growth and change. I don't like. I don't think you're required to grow along with your friends. And I. I think you can maintain friendships when one person's growing in certain ways and the other one isn't. What do you think?

[Aaron Caro]

Well, can we talk about the different ways that people grow, slash, change?

[Matt Ritter]

Yes.

[Aaron Caro]

You, of course, have getting married and having kids probably one of the biggest ones you have getting sober.

[Matt Ritter]

Yep.

[Aaron Caro]

You have either your values.

[Matt Ritter]

Your values can change, your politics can change, your. Your financial status can change, physical fitness priorities. You know, your sense of humor can change. There's a lot of ways that you can Change as a person that might not feel comfortable having the same friend.

[Aaron Caro]

Well, it's interesting because are you, Are we using grow and change interchangeably? Because they could be different.

[Matt Ritter]

Well, your whole thing was like, your friends let you grow, not change. I never, I didn't. I was never in total agreement with that one. Because I think, yeah, change is what feels threatening to people.

[Aaron Caro]

And growth shouldn't.

[Matt Ritter]

Well, neither of them should. You know, they just, they just do. Well, because, friends, your friendship is a shared story on some level. And so, like, when you're like changing the story or something, you know, it's like you're getting out of what you say you guys are.

[Aaron Caro]

It's like when you, when your favorite show, they change the character, they do some weird.

[Matt Ritter]

Right, right, right. Yeah. So, you know, because part of, you know, the reason I like James Clear is he says, you know, to build good habits, you turn them into an identity. Right. So instead of I'm, you know, I'm running a marathon, like, I'm a marathon runner. And then you're part of this thing with other marathon runners. Right. So then if you say, I'm not a marathon runner anymore, what happens to that friendship, you know?

[Aaron Caro]

Right, right, right, right. Because I guess I, I was thinking like, you know, if your politics change, you know, if your financial situation gets worse, that's not necessarily a growth. It's not growth related.

[Matt Ritter]

Right.

[Aaron Caro]

It could just be like, got up.

[Matt Ritter]

Yes, that's. That is true. But my point is that sometimes these. Usually when people are saying, hey, I. I'm worried about my friend group, or I don't know if it fits anymore, it's because something changed doesn't necessarily mean growth.

[Aaron Caro]

Right, exactly, exactly. It's interesting too, because you always say there's seasons for friendship. When you look at a friendship over the, of the, the long term, the long tail, you know, there's probably a lot of ups and downs and as you say, you end up at regressing to the mean over it.

[Matt Ritter]

Right. And you know, like, when you're talking about growth, first change, like, parenting is a good example. I didn't outgrow you because I had a kid. That's a change.

[Aaron Caro]

You know, anyone can have a kid.

[Matt Ritter]

Right, exactly. Anyone can have a kid. But that does obviously mean that, like, okay, so I'm spending more time with parent friends. Right. That doesn't, you know, that doesn't necessarily mean your friendship isn't healthy.

[Aaron Caro]

Right, Right, exactly. It's, it's, it's. It's also a question of, like, can you outgrow a friend.

[Matt Ritter]

Right. And I think you can. I think a lot of people are waking up to this idea that friendships sometimes are chapters in your life, like, like dating.

[Aaron Caro]

You're doing a real story analogy thing here.

[Matt Ritter]

Well, just because you and I addressed friendship myths a while back and one of them was that your friends are forever.

[Aaron Caro]

Right? Right. I mean people go. I think they said people go through a new cycle of friends every seven years.

[Matt Ritter]

Right. That seems high.

[Aaron Caro]

Well, see, it seems high. High for us. I mean, I think a couple things. I mean, it's a two way street. All right, so let's just take having kids or whatever as an example. You know, you are pulled in many different directions. You have a new group of friends, just new group of humans.

[Matt Ritter]

Right.

[Aaron Caro]

A literal humans. But also you're doing drop off.

[Matt Ritter]

You're right.

[Aaron Caro]

You're with all these new people. Now you could either say to yourself, well, this guy doesn't get me anymore.

[Matt Ritter]

Right.

[Aaron Caro]

Or he doesn't understand or I don't have time for him anymore and that's not important to me.

[Matt Ritter]

Right.

[Aaron Caro]

Or you could say that's a good release valve for my new life, that I need a little break.

[Matt Ritter]

Right. And I think our friendship is healthy. I think there's still, there's still not. Not just time for room. There's still a version of me and Carol that works even though I have kids. You know what I mean? I think it's more that. Right.

[Aaron Caro]

Well, I'm thinking, I mean, I'm thinking of like an example where like the single guy is like a real mess.

[Matt Ritter]

Then it's a problem.

[Aaron Caro]

Or a real party animal that's a problem. You know, like, I mean, I think, you know, maybe. Well, I was going to use an example of one person getting sober, but if the other guy's drinking and partying, I could see why you would outgrow them.

[Matt Ritter]

Right. And that friendship would not serve you if that's what it's based on. Right. So it's like, do you still belong together? Right. Like in that situation.

[Aaron Caro]

No.

[Matt Ritter]

Right. But like, just because somebody has a kid doesn't mean you don't belong as friends anymore.

[Aaron Caro]

I'm trying to think of like a more benign.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

You know, example where, you know, maybe someone has a financial. You know, when you really. When you change. Okay. Let's say you get really into fitness, I guess.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

You could be around people who aren't into fitness. Not going to affect you at all.

[Matt Ritter]

Totally.

[Aaron Caro]

But if someone.

[Matt Ritter]

Totally.

[Aaron Caro]

Totally.

[Matt Ritter]

That's a good one. That's a good one. That's not. That doesn't mean you have to cut this person out of your life because they're not into fitness. That's a good. That's a good, like, benign example that proves that just because you change doesn't mean a friendship has to be excised from your life because you have a new part of your life that matters to you.

[Aaron Caro]

What if you're in, like, I don't know, they. They want to do, you know, they want to party hard. You can. You still drink, you're not sober, but like, that, you're not as into that anymore.

[Matt Ritter]

Well, so here's what I think about. You know, this is why I think Simon got it wrong when he said, you know, friend. Friendship is an agreement to grow together. I think a friendship is an agreement to be flexible.

[Aaron Caro]

Okay. Yes.

[Matt Ritter]

Meaning your friendship doesn't always stay static because. Because people are going through changes. So I think a friendship is an agreement to accept those changes, you know, as. So long as the values are still aligned. Or some of them.

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[Aaron Caro]

I mean, also, we should say this is going to happen to every single one of your friendships.

[Matt Ritter]

Yes.

[Aaron Caro]

In your life. That's just how life goes. You. You go through changes. The same thing if someone's going through a bereavement or pregnancy or unemployment.

[Matt Ritter]

Well, that's why I like Seasons for friendship idea, where if you just go, okay, well, maybe this isn't our season right now. It also gives you some distance, like, in a way that's fine to then go, okay, actually, it turns out we weren't meant to be friends or whatever. You know, like, you can have that reflection without going, I'm cutting this person out of my life. They don't drink. Sometimes they don't drink or I drink or I don't drink. They drink. I can't be friends with this person ever again. You could just say right now this isn't the season, because I'm getting this new clarity on who I want to be. And right now, this is what's healthy for me.

[Aaron Caro]

You know. You know, my friend, our friend Lindsay always says, she goes, like, well, he's on that journey right now.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

And I support it.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

And, you know, he'll, you know, they'll be back or they won't be back, but, like, it's not personal.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

And as long as they're change. As long as they're not, like, becoming a. I mean, it's going the other way where they're a drug addict and, like, you need to intervene I think it's. Okay.

[Matt Ritter]

Here's the other part.

[Aaron Caro]

I mean, listen.

[Matt Ritter]

Oh, sorry. Go.

[Aaron Caro]

Well, unless you have a per. A friend who. Okay, let's say when I got into super to CrossFit and I started hanging out with those guys, and then I never hung out with you because I'm like, I got new friends now. Well, that was not cool.

[Matt Ritter]

No. Well, that's why I'm saying you have to figure out how your friend still fits in your life if you want them to, because you can do it if you want to do it. If you actually value the friendship. There are ways to fit a friend into your life, whether it's fitness, sobriety, kids, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's not about quantity of time.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah.

[Matt Ritter]

Separate from that, I wanted to ask about this version of it. What about just the enjoyment levels not there anymore.

[Aaron Caro]

Right. Yeah. A more amorphous drip. Yeah.

[Matt Ritter]

Because I do feel. I do feel there's a lot of that happening, or people are just like, this isn't as fun as it used to be. I'm not sure I enjoy it. Not sure we have a lot to talk about, and I'm just not feeling it. Right. Like, what can we say about just. It just feels like there's not a lack. There's. There's a lack of compatibility anymore.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah. Well, first of all, it's valid. Like, there's nothing wrong with that. It's pretty common.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

You know. You know me. I'm always about, like, if I'm not feeling it, I'm not. I wish I had a good line. If I'm not feeling it, I'm not stealing. It doesn't make any sense.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

You know, like, just don't hang out with them anymore. Obviously, that's. That's a little too black and white.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

I think, first of all, some introspection is. Is called for here. Like, is it me? Is it them? Is it both of us? Is it a season? Was it a moment?

[Matt Ritter]

Right. It is good to go assess. And this is why we talked about, you know, doing these assessments of your friendships periodically. Once a year. It's a good time to go. Is this serving me? Are we even. Are we even friends anymore? Do I enjoy it? Do I get energized by it? Is it. Is it the wrong season for this friendship? These questions are ones you should be asking. When you hang out with somebody multiple times and something is off. Right. If it doesn't fit into any of the buckets we're talking about, it's like, okay, so do it in.

[Aaron Caro]

Just because we haven't talked about in a while. Matt is referring to social universe, or I think we call it social inventory.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

Is basically like once a year on my birthday, if I'm emailing people to get together at a bar, I just keep that list and I have the list from every year.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

So it's my social universe, who all my friends are.

[Matt Ritter]

That's cool.

[Aaron Caro]

And then I look at it the next year, I go, oh, I haven't talked to this person in a year. Either they're out or I need to re engage.

[Matt Ritter]

It's very healthy to do. It's very healthy to do.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah. When I tell people I have a spreadsheet of all my friends, they always know that. So help.

[Matt Ritter]

I know. They go, what a. What a psycho. What a psycho. Yeah. Can we get into the listener question because I think it's going to touch on something interesting too.

[Aaron Caro]

All right, guys, we will be right back with a listener question.

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[Aaron Caro]

Okay, this is asking for a friend, guys. If you have a friendship question or ethical dilemma, send it to us on Instagram. Our handle is man of the Year podcast, and we'll answer on the show. And we can keep it anonymous if you want.

[Matt Ritter]

So I think you're going to like this one, because I don't think we've actually gotten a question like this. Hey, Matt and Carol, love the pod. Have a question about friendships that aren't working for me. I'm a little bored of my friends, but if I step back from these friendships, I'm scared I won't replace them. Is it better to say in blah friendships than risk having none?

[Aaron Caro]

Mm, good question.

[Matt Ritter]

Right.

[Aaron Caro]

Well, what do you think that I'm going to say?

[Matt Ritter]

I think you're going to say, don't stay in the friendship if it's not serving.

[Aaron Caro]

Let's make some new friends while we've still got the bluff.

[Matt Ritter]

Right.

[Aaron Caro]

It's like.

[Matt Ritter]

It's like, don't quit your job. I always tell these people, as a recruiter, I was told, candidates, never, ever quit your job. You don't have one.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. I mean, I think that's.

[Matt Ritter]

That's. Is that what you think?

[Aaron Caro]

Oh, 100%. Okay, 100%.

[Matt Ritter]

So here's what I. Here's what I think. I think you're right in some way. But I do believe and. And tell me if you agree with this. I do believe that a lot of us hang on to unhealthy friendships, and the moment we cut them off, truly cut the cord, we open up our world for new friendships that end up filling it in a healthy way.

[Aaron Caro]

Right. I mean, yeah. I mean, that's just like breaking up with a romantic relationship or.

[Matt Ritter]

No. But I've always found in my own life, and a lot of people that I talk to, when they finally do that, suddenly Somebody comes along and you know that space, they have room now. They have room now for a healthy friendship.

[Aaron Caro]

Out of curiosity, is there ever a time someone should quit their job before they have a new one?

[Matt Ritter]

I mean, yes. If you're so miserable and it's costing you your mental health and you cannot, you know, like, I do believe that. But if you're. If you're fine, I always say, can you stick it out until we get you another job? Then we got to do that.

[Aaron Caro]

You know, do people care anymore?

[Matt Ritter]

Yes.

[Aaron Caro]

On LinkedIn or what? I didn't even finish what I was saying.

[Matt Ritter]

Oh, they were gonna say, do they care if you don't? If you're not currently employed? Yes.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah. If there's a three month gap and you're Whatever.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah. Well, in big law. Yes.

[Aaron Caro]

Wow.

[Matt Ritter]

Still a big problem. I'm not saying I agree that it should be, just saying current hiring still frowns upon it.

[Aaron Caro]

What was your, what was your stand up bit about having a gap in your resume?

[Matt Ritter]

If anyone ever asks about that five year gap in the resume, take a deep breath, you look them right in the eye and you say, I was in a coma.

[Aaron Caro]

I was in a coma. Right.

[Matt Ritter]

But my wife read to me every day from the ABA Journal, so I'm fully up on my case law. She had Alexa password. Okay, so back to. Right, this idea that should you dump your friends before making new ones?

[Aaron Caro]

Well, the other thing is that you don't really need to dump friends.

[Matt Ritter]

Right, Right. Right.

[Aaron Caro]

You know, you're not actually going to be doing it unless you're seeing them every day or every week. You're just gonna, you're just gonna explore all of our tips and hacks for making a new friend while these other people are around.

[Matt Ritter]

Right. Your. Your friends aren't gonna know that you're like, out seeing new friends. It's not like when you're in a relationship, if you're sneaking around on Tinder, Grindr or whatever, you know, you could be out there.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah.

[Matt Ritter]

Making new friends. They wouldn't even know.

[Aaron Caro]

We've never talked about cheating.

[Matt Ritter]

Cheating on your friendship cheating. Friendship cheating. I do think people get very territorial when they see, you know, their friends. We should do a whole episode about that because that's like a completely interesting thing that I think happens. Right. So you're allowed to change without telling your friends. You're allowed to source new friends without their permission. Right? Is that, that's.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, of course you don't need their permission. I mean, I think, I think what the question asker is Sort of saying is, you know, I'm just gonna kind of cold turkey ditch these guys, but then I just will have nobody. And I think that's fair. You know, you and I have said in the past, this was often in the context of you moving to a new city.

[Matt Ritter]

Yep.

[Aaron Caro]

And you meet someone and you have any friends and you meet someone, they're like, okay, yeah. And you and I are always like, that's fine.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

Just like, get toe hold, have someone to do stuff with.

[Matt Ritter]

Right. I don't think there's anything wrong. I guess what we're saying is you don't have to feel guilty about staying in a blah friendship as you gain clarity and then seek out other friends.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah. I mean, I think that, well, we should. We should take a trademark. Step back.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

Why do you feel blah with these friends?

[Matt Ritter]

Yes.

[Aaron Caro]

Like, what are you feeling? Is it something going on and you're projecting upon them? Is. Is something going on with them that is leaking into the friendship? Are you misinterpreting what's happening? Are you bored? Do you have mono?

[Matt Ritter]

Right. You know, because. Is there a way. And you know, I don't know if we ever did this topic. Is there a way to reinvigorate friendships? Stale friendships? Right. A lot of long term friendships sometimes get a little routine. Right. And we've talked about ways to level up friendships, but also works for stale ones of like, hey, let's get out of our norm hang routine. Let's go, you know, do a wine tasting. Let's go, you know, on a little adventure. Even if it's in town.

[Aaron Caro]

I've got one word for you. Jacksonville. We just did a boys trip and you know, we still talk about five years ago.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah. That really reinvigorated. Having something exciting on the calendar brings you together for sure. Always. We know that. But yes. I mean, look, even good friendships can get boring, can't they?

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, of course. I mean, this is the same thing as in a romantic relationship. You got to spice things up. You got to put a little. What's friendship lingerie?

[Matt Ritter]

Right. Tickets to courtside, Tickets to the Lakers.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, exactly. Or a little. Little weekend trip.

[Matt Ritter]

Stagecoach.

[Aaron Caro]

Wait, what's this gonna say? Friendship lingerie. But we should be clear that, like, you're gonna have to do it. Like you have to be the friend. Like they're. You're not gonna wait for them to plan the trip.

[Matt Ritter]

Right, Right. If you want to see if these friendships can be improved.

[Aaron Caro]

Right, Right. I would. I would give it one more because. What did they say about. They Said bored.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah. I mean, hell, maybe they're saying the same thing about you.

[Matt Ritter]

Totally, totally. And you know, look, I think we talked about this like, you know, guys don't necessarily usually have falling outs. They're falling off. We don't necessarily need closure on a lot of this stuff. It doesn't always need, like, we're no longer friends anymore. Drift isn't like some sort of disrespect.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah. I'm just curious. Let's say the guy decides, you know what, I don't really want to hang out with these people anymore. Is it so bad to have a moment of fallowness?

[Matt Ritter]

No, I was going to say, I was going to say because you immediately. Actually, that's what I wanted to get into on this answer. I was going to say, let's look at it the other way. As I said about the, you know, when you break up with a friend, sometimes somebody enters the picture, but they don't usually enter the picture right away. You know, if you end a friendship with a close friend, you're not going to replace them next week. You are going to go through a fallow period of friendship at that level if you stop hanging out with your friends of 20 years because it's just not serving you. Fine, that's okay. But there's no way my new dad friends are suddenly going to replace. That takes time.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah. And it's okay. And listen, a little me time.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

Is, is, is called for. Treat yourself.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah. And again, you know, there's also the bigger issue of, you know, social fitness isn't just your best friends, it's your outer ring, your acquaintances. And maybe there's an opportunity to level somebody up there or just even appreciate that a little bit. You know, when you step back from some friendships, you start looking around at everybody else, you know, go, you know, maybe, maybe I want to spend time with this person or that person.

[Aaron Caro]

You know, also you get to do it again. Just like getting out of relationship. You get to do all the things that your friends don't like to do or they made fun of you for.

[Matt Ritter]

Right.

[Aaron Caro]

Or they didn't have the money for you just fucking do it.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah. And I also sometimes, you know, we talked about friendship dynamics a couple weeks ago. What's the ideal number? And maybe it's just you're not loving the group or maybe there's one person that you're. We don't know because you're not giving us enough. But when somebody says, hey, I'm just not feeling my entire group of friends, you know, maybe you've changed. Right. And they haven't, or maybe some of them have changed. And just when you guys go to a sports bar together, it's feeling very blah, and you're not really digging below the surface of maybe somebody else is also feeling that. And you wouldn't know. Right. It's like, maybe you two could break off and, you know, be in a different phase.

[Aaron Caro]

Well, didn't we do an episode about you were the five people the average of the five?

[Matt Ritter]

It is a reflection. I mean, your friends are a reflection of you in some ways. Yeah. So if you're not that person anymore, then, yeah, of course you need some friends to reflect the new you. But I. I've always felt like, you know, the influencer bro culture is like, you just need people who level up with you. Like, I just don't agree with that too. It's okay to have a friend who's like, we. What was the episode we called them? Useless friends.

[Aaron Caro]

Useless friends. Right. Someone got mad at us in the comments.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah, I'm all about the feel. Feel good test. If your friends make you feel good, great. Keep them. Whether or not they are leveling up or crushing it or not.

[Aaron Caro]

Right, Right. Yeah. I. Listen, I think that it's good that this person is even asking the question. They're. They're. They're striving, aspiring to be. Have a better friend group. It's great.

[Matt Ritter]

Well, again, it goes back to this myth. Right. I think it was myth number one, that whoever you're friends with, that's who you're friends with your whole life.

[Aaron Caro]

Right.

[Matt Ritter]

So. Yes. But also maybe use some of the data on what hasn't worked in these friendships in seeking new friendships or, you know, new dynamics.

[Aaron Caro]

Maybe we add another friendship myth where it's okay. It's not okay to not have a group of close friends at all times.

[Matt Ritter]

I think that's huge. Say that again.

[Aaron Caro]

The myth would be, it's not okay to not have a group of close friends at all times.

[Matt Ritter]

Right. It is okay to not have a close group of friends at all times.

[Aaron Caro]

Right.

[Matt Ritter]

It's okay to have no friends at some points. It's okay to have one or two. It's okay to have a lot of friends, too many sometimes, because we are always changing and evolving. And so especially in the age of social media and everything looks better, grass is always greener. Everybody looks like they're having a thriving social circle. And you're going, oh, man, I need this giant social circle. No, you don't.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, you Need a. You need a social. I don't know what's smaller than a circle, you know, triangle.

[Matt Ritter]

You need one or two friends. I mean, yeah, if you have one or two friends and you have the other things, which is the outer rings, and you get out of your house and you. You say hi to people at coffee or you play pickleball twice a week, or you go to the gym. It's this overall social fitness. And you call your old friends once a month. You know, we said TCs, text, call, C. You're maintaining consistent communication with people. Maybe two friends is plenty in that moment. But maybe sometimes you need a group because you're feeling like you want some ruckus dinner parties and you're lacking in that.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah. I think you think you cause a ruckus. But the party would be raucous.

[Matt Ritter]

Raucous. Raucous. Oh, you want. Usually amazing. Brenner now has an accent.

[Aaron Caro]

Okay.

[Matt Ritter]

He goes. Dead. Yeah. Like, we don't know where it came from. And he goes, come here, come here, come here. We're like, what is it? What is it? It's like an old timey guy. Yeah, yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

Like, he's like. He's got like a cartoon. Like, it's like an old school. Like, that's so funny.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah. I don't know where he picked it up. It's the funniest thing. Anyway. Did we answer this?

[Aaron Caro]

I think we did. I think we gave them a lot to think about.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

All right, guys, that was asking for a friend. If you have a friendship question, send it to us on Instagram. Okay. As we wrap up here, anything else about. How about when you're the friend and you. You recognize somebody else changing or. Or drifting.

[Matt Ritter]

Right. And that goes back to why I'm trying to debunk Simon Sinek's. Like, friendship is an agreement to grow together. Like, if your friend's growing, you can just support their growth. Or not resist it.

[Aaron Caro]

Not resist it. And it's okay if they're not. Is it okay if they're not growing?

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I think it's okay to have friends that don't grow with you. If you're growing and your friends aren't. Like, I definitely have some friends that I enjoy their company, and I just don't see them leveling up in the ways that I'm trying to level up. And they probably see. See me as not leveling up in the way. You know, that's the thing about growth. Everybody has a different version of what it is.

[Aaron Caro]

You know what it's called when you see one of your buddies kind of changing for the better and leveling up and you're supporting that. We call that growth.

[Matt Ritter]

Growth. I like it. I like it. I like it. I like it. But yes, I really want to emphasize, you do not need to grow. You don't both need to be crushing it, or you don't both know to be sober. I just think you. You should not be resistant to your friend's growth. That's when a friendship isn't going to work.

[Aaron Caro]

Listen, if your bro flies away and he never comes back, he wasn't your bro to begin with. Is that how it goes?

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah, I think that's right.

[Aaron Caro]

But if he does come back, then you were bros forever. Then you're best friends forever.

[Matt Ritter]

Or you keep him chained in the basement, never going anywhere.

[Aaron Caro]

I would love to hear from our listeners of kind of stories of either you outgrowing your friends, quote, outgrowing your friends, or your friends are growing you. And like, what? What? How would that. What happened?

[Matt Ritter]

We've all been outgrown and we've all outgrown.

[Aaron Caro]

Listen, we will. At the end of the day, you always get like, life is undefeated.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah, yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

Is that. Is that a too morbid of a note?

[Matt Ritter]

No, it's great. Life is undefeated. So roll with it.

[Aaron Caro]

I love it. All right, guys, thank you so much for listening. Always remember, be good to yourself. Be good to your friends.

[Matt Ritter]

Love you, Buddy. Support is available 247 with VRBO care.

[Aaron Caro]

We're here day or night, ready whenever you need help. Because a great trip starts with the right support.

[Matt Ritter]

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[Aaron Caro]

With tools like their 3D virtual tours.

[Matt Ritter]

You can see the exact unit you could be living in. Really envision yourself in your new home. With apartments.com, the place to find a place.

[Aaron Caro]

If you like the show, please take a moment to rate, review and subscribe.

[Matt Ritter]

It really does help the show to grow.

[Aaron Caro]

Thank you for listening.