#176 - Grieving Friends

Summary

Podcast Summary: Man of the Year #176 – Grieving Friends

Hosts: Matt Ritter & Aaron Karo
Release Date: March 17, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this heartfelt and practical episode, Matt and Aaron tackle a heavy but essential topic: how to show up for grieving friends. Drawing on their personal experiences, comedic rapport, and community questions, the duo offers advice and candid reflection on what grieving friends truly need—debunking myths, acknowledging common social fumbles, and urging listeners to foster deeper, more resilient friendships during difficult times.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Personal Spark for the Episode

• Matt shares a recent experience: a close friend lost his father suddenly, mirroring the loss of Matt’s own father years before. This prompted reflection on the discomforts and obligations friends feel when someone in their group is grieving.
  “I had a friend whose dad passed suddenly… it reminded me, it was a very similar situation to my dad.” (04:08 — Matt Ritter)

2. First Rule: Say Something

• The hosts emphasize that any communication is better than silence when reaching out to a grieving friend. Silence can easily be interpreted as indifference.
  “My number one best practice… is say something. Don’t try to wait to find the right thing. Don’t let awkwardness get in the way, because waiting feels like indifference.” (05:37 — Matt Ritter)

• Even clichés or simple messages (“Thinking of you”) are better than nothing. “It’s worse than saying something awkward… Even if you do, they’re gonna know when things settle down...” (06:29 — Matt Ritter)

3. What Not to Say & Phrasing Tips

• Avoid the unhelpful phrase: “Let me know if you need anything.” Instead, offer specific ways to help, based on your relationship with the grieving person. “Instead say, ‘I’m bringing dinner Thursday,’ or ‘I will walk your dog Saturday.’” (08:44 — Matt Ritter)
• For more distant connections, a simple heart or a “thinking about you” is appropriate (10:57 — Aaron Caro).

4. Show Up—Physically and Emotionally

• Your presence, not your solutions, is what matters.
  “You’re not gonna solve anything. It’s unsolvable… the key to being a good friend is to show up.” (11:38 — Aaron Caro)
• The urge to fix things is natural, but sometimes our only job is to be there.

5. Let Them Dictate the Tone

• Grief looks different for everyone. Some may joke; others may need quiet support. “Let them dictate tone… Some people may even be jokey, but when the grief hits, they don’t want that. So you have to let them dictate.” (12:14 — Matt Ritter)
• When in doubt, soft and kind beats forced humor.

6. Grief Doesn’t Have a Statute of Limitations

• Responding to a listener question, Matt and Aaron discuss how friends often fall off after the immediate aftermath—leaving the grieving to handle the “long tail” of loss alone. “Grief has this long shelf life… as a society, we only accept a certain amount of… you can be out of sorts for a certain amount of time. And then we’re all just like, you got to move on.” (18:03 — Matt Ritter)
• Acknowledge milestones (“firsts” without the loved one), anniversaries, and don’t shy away from check-ins months down the line.

7. The “Second Wave” of Support

• Matt proposes the idea of a “second responder”—someone who intentionally checks in with a grieving friend a month or so after the immediate crisis, when support has usually faded. “I was thinking about this a lot: what would really help the grieving process is if there was a second wave—if there was a designated second wave person...” (29:41 — Matt Ritter)

8. Navigating Ongoing Grief in Friendships

• Not everyone grieves openly or wants to discuss their loss constantly. Friends aren’t mind readers—so, gentle, situational check-ins can make a difference (21:40 — Matt Ritter).
• Asking about “the surviving parent” can be a gentle entry point (24:13 — Aaron Caro).
• “Neither person is wrong”—sometimes the grieving friend should feel free to bring up their feelings; sometimes friends just don’t know what to do (25:20 — Aaron Caro).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Waiting for the Right Words:
  “Not saying something is the worst thing you can do. It’s worse than saying something awkward.”
  (06:29 — Matt Ritter)

• On Fixing vs. Being Present:
  “Our instinct is to fix all of us, right? As a friend and relationships… our instinct just [is] try to fix, fix, fix.”
  (12:05 — Matt Ritter)

• On Crying and Vulnerability:
  “Crying isn’t bad. How about that? Having emotions isn’t bad. Emoting in front of your friends as a man isn’t bad.”
  (27:20 — Matt Ritter)

• On Grief’s Duration:
  “Grief isn’t brief.”
  (31:19 — Aaron Caro, summing up the needed patience and persistence)

• On Memories Living On:
  “Like, you live on through your children… Jess’s grandma lives on through Brenner’s upper lip and nose. It’s bizarre. He makes an expression… your grandma is sitting right there on the counter.”
  (32:33 — Matt Ritter)

• On An Honest Dad Review:
  “When I made that documentary film, he’s like, ‘One day you will make a real movie.’”
  (33:14 — Matt Ritter, channeling his father)

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Listener Mailbag: “Do I have a right to be mad?” ([17:06])

• Scenario: Listener’s friend did everything right after their mom passed, but stopped asking or checking in after a while. Is it fair to be upset?
• Perspective:
  • Aaron: It’s common for support to fade; people move on with their lives.
  • Matt: Most friends don’t know ongoing check-ins are wanted, fear reopening wounds, or simply forget (“After the music turns back on…” — 18:03).
  • Both agree: It’s nobody’s “fault”—communication goes both ways, and resentment may not be productive. Instead, open the door (“I was thinking about my mom”) and see if your friend supports you (24:19-25:20).

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Matt’s personal loss & intro to topic: 04:00-05:07
• First rule (Say something!): 05:37-06:29
• Avoiding “Let me know if you need anything”: 08:44-09:36
• Tone and presence in grief: 12:14-13:12
• Listener mail on fading support: 17:06-26:28
• Best practices for check-ins, “second wave”: 29:41-31:19
• Crying and male vulnerability: 27:09-28:04
• Personal reflections, living through children: 32:27-33:39

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Key Takeaways

• Break the silence. Awkwardness is survivable; neglect is not.
• Offer specifics, not open-ended help. Concrete gestures mean more than vague promises.
• Grief is a long process. Consistent check-ins matter—consider being a “second responder.”
• Let the grieving friend set the tone. Softness first, jokes or deeper questions if/when they’re ready.
• Men in particular need to normalize supporting and expressing emotion around grief.
• It’s okay not to be perfect—just show up, and forgive each other for the inevitable, human shortfalls.

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Final Thoughts

Matt and Aaron acknowledge there’s no script for being the perfect friend in times of loss, but doing something—even if imperfect—is far more powerful than doing nothing at all. Their message is one of compassion, encouragement, and real-world advice for deepening and sustaining friendship through life’s hardest moments.

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For more friendship hacks or to submit your questions, visit Manoftheyearpodcast.com or DM them on Instagram @manoftheyearpodcast.

Transcript

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[Matt Ritter]

Man of the Year man of the Year man of the Year. Welcome to the number one friendship podcast in the country. I'm Matt Ritter.

[Aaron Caro]

I'm Aaron Caro.

[Matt Ritter]

Guys, go to audible.com the buddy system to check out our audio original. By the way, thank you so much for all the reviews. We're crushing it. And go to manoftheapodcast.com to get our merchandise. Merchandise. Merchandise.

[Aaron Caro]

Matt, do you ever get like, people assume because we work in the industry that you're like in charge of everybody.

[Matt Ritter]

You mean like other people in town that I can call? Is that what you're asking? Like, no.

[Aaron Caro]

Like, my buddy went to a stand up show last night. A big. It's my buddy Rob in Denver, a big comedian, like a theater, you know, arena type. I'm not gonna say. And he's just like, it was terrible. He was terrible. He's like, I brought my son and

[Matt Ritter]

I'm looking it up right now. I'm looking.

[Aaron Caro]

You can look it up. Just don't Say, and he's just like, it was terrible. And I'm like, he was sort of like, I'm like, because I'm a comedian. Are you telling me that this comedy show wasn't good? Like, what do you want me to do? Like, you want to make it? Make. Make a call? Like, that is just doing comedy in Denver.

[Matt Ritter]

Last night, was it last night?

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, just. Just let it be. Let it be.

[Matt Ritter]

Oh, boy. Is it. Is it a tick tock person?

[Aaron Caro]

No, no, it's an old. This is old school. Old school. Old school.

[Matt Ritter]

Okay. Oh, you have to tell me offline. Yes, I know.

[Aaron Caro]

Like, do you want me to like, make a phone call? Like, what I'm gonna do about this?

[Matt Ritter]

Do better. Yeah, you have to text this person. Do better. Be better, be best.

[Aaron Caro]

You know what? I always, I always ask, like, who was the opener? I'm always curious who the opener is on these giant, you know, shows. Anyway, I just thought that you'd appreciate that as, also, as a comedian. I'm like, okay, like, I'm sorry, We'll get a bit. What was that?

[Matt Ritter]

Was there one. Was there an opener?

[Aaron Caro]

Sometimes, yeah, it was some, some, you know, some mid level guy. But I just thought you'd appreciate that.

[Matt Ritter]

Yes, no, I've definitely had that many a time. So I thought we could do a bit of a darker turn this week, I guess you could say. I had a friend whose dad passed suddenly and it reminded me it was a very similar situation to my dad. His dad passed literally right when he got off the plane to see him, like 20 minutes after he got off the plane. And it was. So he did see him. He like, literally died in his arms. So, you know, awful situation. And I didn't even know about it until three weeks later just because it was over the holidays, traveling, whatever. So I felt awful. You know, I called him and, you know, I could tell he was going through all the emotions, but one of them, that he was, that he was clearly raw about, like, certain friends, not me, but he was just alluding to the fact that he was raw about the way that certain friends were. Were not showing up for him. So I thought we could get into this because I don't think we talked about this in years. How to show up for a grieving friend.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, it's. I wish it was a topic that we didn't have experience with.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah. And when I. I'll just back up. Like, I. I missed seeing my dad by like five minutes when I flew to New York over the summer. Almost, Almost Five years ago now. It's crazy. So, you know, my. My friend Dean R.I.P. to his dad, you know, I told him, I said, if anybody you knows that specific feeling, you know, it's me. And I just said, you know, like, I have, you know, just. I have some thoughts if you ever want to, you know, talk. I've been there.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah.

[Matt Ritter]

But my number one best practice, I wanted to just go through some best practices and we could talk about whether you agree this reading. But my number one is say something. Don't try to wait to find the right thing. Don't let awkwardness get in the way, because waiting feels like indifference to that person.

[Aaron Caro]

Can you. I think that. I think people understand that. And I. By the way, it was a different situation. This was a. More of a marital situation, but I was giving someone advice on a similar situation. Can you talk about, like, people are like, well, I could. They know they should say something. But, like, what? I don't want to say the wrong thing. I can't fix this.

[Matt Ritter]

Right. I. I think there's a part of it is that they feel that a platitude isn't good enough. Right. I think that's what drives it. It's. It's either a platitude isn't good enough or I really need to say the right thing in this moment. And so I have to, like, craft my words. Right. I don't want to say the wrong thing. I don't want to offend. But again, I just want to emphasize not saying something is the worst thing you can do. It's worse than saying something awkward. It's very unlikely you're going to say the wrong thing. You know, and even if you do, they're going to know when things settle down that you just didn't have the right words in the moment. I'm telling you.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah. I mean, I can't even think of what the wrong thing.

[Matt Ritter]

Well, the wrong words would be like, well, I'm glad he's dead.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah. Okay. Fair enough. Yeah.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

Why don't you get. Why don't you catch the earlier flight, you cheap bastard?

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah, yeah. It's like, I know you didn't really care that much about him, you know, so. Yeah, something like that. You know, there are bad things to say, so I think the cliches are the right way. And, you know, there's just different. There's different simple ones. You can just say, I'm here for you. I'm thinking about you. No need to respond, I think is a really good one because A lot of the people who are struggling with what to say are worried that this person's going to need them and they're not able to give them the support. So there's a little bit of, hey, you don't have to respond. I think you don't have to respond as good. If you are afraid and you don't think you have the words in the moment, I think you can do that. What do you think about that?

[Aaron Caro]

To say no need to respond.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah,

[Aaron Caro]

I don't. It's sort of.

[Matt Ritter]

Because they're also like putting a bird. You Sometimes people think they're putting a burden on that person to call them back.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, I don't. I think it's. You can't go wrong. Yeah, I think you probably don't need. I think it's implied. You don't need to respond. Yeah, I like thinking about you. You can't go wrong with thinking about you. Let's talk about you and I have discussed one thing. Not it's okay if you say this, but we prefer if you don't is to say, let me know if you need anything.

[Matt Ritter]

It's the most common thing that people say, and it's not the best one. It's not the worst one. I want to get back up, right? Because I think. I think we did an episode about that and we're like, don't say that. It's fine. It's fine to say that. It's the most common thing that people say when somebody's craving, let me know if you need anything. Right. And instead say, I'm bringing dinner Thursday or I will walk your dog Saturday or I will take your kids to school. So I actually had a friend whose, you know, kid had to be rushed to the er, and I was like, hey, can I come pick up your kids for a play date tonight?

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah.

[Matt Ritter]

You know, so it doesn't have to be like, you don't have to have the answers. But I think if you know this person and you know one thing, you can take off something off their plate. Yeah. It's better than let me know if you need anything.

[Aaron Caro]

And just to clarify, when you say that, you're putting the onus on the other person to both come up with something that they need and also ask you for it.

[Matt Ritter]

But I don't want to make people feel bad about the thing that they said the most, 100%, I think, like, hey, by the way, the thing you've been saying your whole life sucks.

[Aaron Caro]

Right? And I think that if it's a pretty I would actually think if it's a tight connection, a very tight connection, actually, that makes more sense to ask that because you literally, like, you know, if it's. If it's a secondary, you know, I. I feel like I kind of miss an opportunity to do this. It's so funny that you.

[Matt Ritter]

That.

[Aaron Caro]

Not funny. But yet you brought this up. There's a. There's a girl in my building who I'm. I'm friendly with. Just, like, see her at the gym.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

On Instagram. We're on Instagram. Instagram friends. She posted that her father passed away. And I was going to take our advice and I was just gonna messenger. Hey. She was home. And wherever she lives, I said, you know, I was gonna be like, do you want me to, like, go into your apartment, like, send you stuff if you're not coming back for a while? And then I was like, oh, we're not. Like, I've never seen her.

[Matt Ritter]

If you need anything.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, no, I just sent. I just sent. I think I just hearted. I mean, we're really not. No, I've never seen her outside the gym.

[Matt Ritter]

But. No, you're right. Look, the. The doing stuff is definitely more for the inner circle, for sure. But yeah, you know, I mean, it's a nice thing to do, Steph. And my buddy Dean, by the way, was like, please do not send me flowers.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah.

[Matt Ritter]

You know, I was like, I gotta send something in the house. So he said, don't send flowers. So now I'm like, all right, I'll send him. You know, it's my trainer, so I'll send him more steroids or something. You know,

[Aaron Caro]

I think that also the. The. The key here is that, like, you're showing up, right?

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

In the buddy system are audible. Original. The. The key to making a friend is to be the friend. And the key to being a good friend is to show up.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

And it's really just your presence, metaphysical or physical, that they know you're there for them. Like, you're not gonna. Especially for grief. You're not gonna solve anything. It's unsolvable.

[Matt Ritter]

Absolutely.

[Aaron Caro]

Even for anything, Even for our instinct.

[Matt Ritter]

Look, our instinct is to fix all of us, right? As a friend and relationships to our instinct, just try to fix, fix, fix, fix.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah.

[Matt Ritter]

On that note, part of it is knowing that person. Tone. Right. I want to talk about best practices tone. Let them dictate tone. Right. So you may have a friend who's jokey, and that's how they interact, and they may stick with that through the grief Right. Like my. My sister and I at my dad's funeral, you know, we were talking about how we should have set him up with some of her friends. You know, we're like, laughing in the front row, and that's us. But some people may even be jokey in their personality, and when the grief hits them, they don't want that. So you have to let them dictate, you know, how to. Don't, don't. I think the default should be, let's just play soft and kind until they indicate, like, okay, we can be the way we are.

[Aaron Caro]

Did we discuss the Conan thing already on the pod?

[Matt Ritter]

That was great. Yeah, we discussed it a couple of months ago, I think.

[Aaron Caro]

Oh, yeah, Conan. It was. It was. Will are not sharing Conan and Conan's tech. His text with Conan after Conan's dad passed away, and it was just a lot of jokes.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah, it was truly incredible. Should we get into a listener question early just because it hits on. I think one of my best practices for grieving friends?

[Aaron Caro]

Yes. I actually had one more question about your personal experience. Was your experience different or charged in any way because your folks were not together anymore?

[Matt Ritter]

No. I mean, I think it would be nice to. I. I think it's. It's. Okay. So it's like you feel a little like, you know, that other person. Like, my mom is, like, not in the same level of grieving that we're doing because they're not together, but she was grieving too. But I think it changes the levels. By the way, I had a good cry this morning, I think partly because I knew we were doing this episode, partly because my wife's been away and have been home with the two boys. And so I told my son that I had a dad and I missed him and, like, whatever, started crying, and he was like, why don't you lay down and wait for him? Yeah, tough one, toughie. Okay, let's do listener question before I start crying.

[Aaron Caro]

Okay? Okay. Okay. We gotta. We gotta. We gotta move quick. All right, we'll be right back. His eyes are well enough, guys, and you can see it on YouTube. Is that a bad plug? We'll be right back with a listener question.

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[Aaron Caro]

Okay, guys, this is asking for a friend. If you have a friendship question or ethical dilemma, send it to us on Instagram at Manny the Ear podcast and we'll answer it on the show. Matt, take it away.

[Matt Ritter]

Hey, Matt and Caro. My mom passed a while back, but I've just been thinking about why I'm a little upset with one of my friends. When she passed, he did all the right things, said all the right things for a short time. But then after that, he never asked me about it again. Do I have a right to be mad about this?

[Aaron Caro]

Man, this is such a good question because we unfortunately, as I don't even know if we talked about it, two of our best friends, mom's passed away 2025. And I have asked myself, I've been, I've been like, oh, I. I was there. Flew in for the funerals.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

Followed up. Now it's 6 months, 9 months, 12 months. What do I say? Do I say, what's the protocol here? Do I want to bring it up? Is it. Do I feel bad I haven't so, yeah, let me. Let me hear the best practice or your response.

[Matt Ritter]

Well, I want to just say that grief has this long shelf life. I think we talked about it a long time ago, is that, you know, we only let people be out of sorts for so long. Right. We'd only accept a society. Right. As a society, we only accept a certain amount of. You can be out of sorts for a certain amount of time. Right. And then we're all just like, you got to move on. Right. For whatever. You have responsibilities. You've got family. Just. People don't want to be talking about this for a long time. Right. So on some levels, unfortunately, a lot of people have to just carry the grief alone continuously after the music stops, you know, after whatever. After the music turns back on. And so that breeds resentment because they feel. Feel like. I feel like, oh, I can't bring up my dad anymore. Like, that's. It's ancient history. Right. And then friends, not conversely, but also kind of maybe on the same track, friends are like, oh, he probably doesn't want to talk about that anymore. I think that's what most people think. Like, oh, I don't want to bring this up anymore. Right. Why would I want to open an old wound? Do you think that's what people are thinking? That's what I'm curious about.

[Aaron Caro]

If. If. If. If I. If. I'm gonna be frank. I think people move on with their lives.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

You know, your job as the friend. The friend to a grieving friend.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

Triage. This person is going through it. It's an emergency. We're there. What do you need?

[Matt Ritter]

And then.

[Aaron Caro]

Okay, they're okay. And they have. Maybe they have a wife or a partner. The emergency is over. And now I need to. And then you.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah, I. I think the problem is we kind of have the setup wrong for how we deal with grieving people. The setup says you just hit them with. Everybody sends flowers, everybody's there for them for a week, and then you're allowed to disappear and never talk about it again. And that's actually not, you know, how people grieve. Right. Grief comes in waves. I just told you I cried this morning. It's been five years. You know, there are certain triggers. So, you know, I. To me, it's almost like this listener hit me with, like, a wish fulfillment question that I don't have the answer to, which is that I always want to talk about, you know, my. You know, my dad. Like, I'm always happy to, because it makes me feel like we're still connected. And I do think a lot of people who are grieving still want that. They still want to be able to talk about their parent, that they're like, or sibling or whoever, because it makes them feel like they're still there in some way, but it also makes them feel seen. Right. It's like, if you're not asking me about, like, our friends, right, Their moms just died this year. That's not a long time. I can tell you that right now. That's very far from being okay. You're not going to be okay the first year after you lose me. I mean, you're never going to be the same again, but you're not going to be okay in the first year. Absolutely not. So I definitely think, hey, you may think, oh, it's been nine months since their parent died. I don't want to bring it up. I definitely think most of the time, like, you know, they would love to still be able to converse about it, but I. I think, you know, part of it is, like, you do want to let them dictate that. Right. I. I noticed of these two friends, one of them, it seemed to me, didn't want to talk about it, like, at our man of the Year dinner at all.

[Aaron Caro]

Okay.

[Matt Ritter]

So kind of multiple people kind of broached it softly, and it was clear they didn't want to talk about it. So we didn't. We moved on. But I think that's the way to do it. It's like, broach it softly. How are you? You know, it's like, how are you doing? I think it's obvious what we're talking about.

[Aaron Caro]

Well, that's what I was just going to ask you of practical advice, you know, at some point, it's not obvious what you're saying. You know, how are you?

[Matt Ritter]

How you're holding up?

[Aaron Caro]

Right. You know, nine months, a year later. I mean, I think you got to be a little more specific, maybe.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, for sure. And that's hard, you know, that's close friend stuff, really, to be able to navigate that. Right. And this listener's asking, like, hey, one of my best friends did the thing for the first three weeks and then never asked me again about my mom. I think that's just part of society's, like, protocols. I honestly, because I've been there, I don't think they did anything wrong. And I hate to say, like, oh, it's, you know, it's not on you to communicate. You want to talk about your. You know, but if you talk about it. And they, you know, are there for you. That's good. Like, you can talk about. You should feel free to talk about it in front of your friends. Yeah. And if they, if they make it awkward and it's like, that's not a good friend. If they won't let you, you know, have a conversation. But again, there is a line. Right. The flip side is like, yeah, you do have to not. You do have to adhere to society's rules. You can't just perpetually talk about, you know, your deceased parent all the time when you're hanging out with people.

[Aaron Caro]

Well, I also think in this case, the friend, not the grieving friend, the other friend probably thinks he doesn't want to talk about it anymore. He seems better. He seems okay.

[Matt Ritter]

Right.

[Aaron Caro]

I don't think if the grieving friend brought up their deceased parent, the guy would be like, let's not talk about anymore.

[Matt Ritter]

Totally. And friends aren't mind readers. And people are not conditioned to go after your parent passed, after six months to go, hey, let me bring this up and see how you're doing. For all the reasons I said of, like, they don't want to, like, rub salt in a wound because you seem fine. If you seem okay. They don't want to set you into a place. They don't want to feel like, oh, man, now I'm like, this person's crying because I. Why did I ask that? I'm such a jerk. Why did I, Why did I do that?

[Aaron Caro]

So I want to go back to the crying thing for a second, but I have maybe one tip slash hack that I have used in the situation with our friends. Because you're like, how do I bring it up? How do I approach? It's weird coming nowhere. I ask how their the living parent is.

[Matt Ritter]

That's a good one. Yeah, that's a good one.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah. Then it's really implied what's going on.

[Matt Ritter]

It's not so direct. Right, right, right. But again, you know, can you be mad at somebody for that? Yeah, you can be. But, you know, did they do anything wrong? You know, it's like you want to feel seen. You want to, you know, and you're dealing with something that's hard. And, you know, in those moments, you're kind of like out of sorts, and your relationships get out of sorts. And, you know, look, is it you in an ideal world or your buddies always knowing when to ask you the right thing? Sure. But most people fail the grief test. You know, like, I'm very, I'm very. I don't Know, forgiving about that. Because now with, you know, a little bit of hindsight, I can see when I look at it, I'm like, man, even I, like, can fail it with my friends too. Like, knowing all the best practices, it's very hard to go, hey, I'm gonna be the best, you know, friend to these people who are grieving.

[Aaron Caro]

I mean, this is. This is a rare. Neither person's wrong situation. You know, like, it's not on the grieving friend to. It's not. Shouldn't be on them to tell, to say, hey, I need more help. And it shouldn't be on the other guy to guess that you need more help. So I think everyone's doing their best.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah. And I think women are way better at this. I feel like they're always like, you weren't there when I needed you.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah. We're like, just let me know and I'll be there.

[Matt Ritter]

Like, I don't think men. I just don't think we've. We said that to each other. Right. Like, you weren't there when I needed, like. So I think, I think you can say, hey, you know, I really, you know, could have used some more support. I know you didn't mean to.

[Aaron Caro]

No, I wouldn't even. Wait, I'm sorry, is this current. Is this currently happening? This is like a year ago when he.

[Matt Ritter]

I think he said a year ago.

[Aaron Caro]

Oh, I don't know. What is that gonna.

[Matt Ritter]

I know, I know. I think you accept him, Honestly, I think you just gotta let it go and, you know, accept that. You know, most people fail this. But you could also. I know, but I was gonna say, you could also just bring up your mom and see how they react. And if they're there while you bring it up, you could say, like, hey, I really appreciate you, you know?

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah. No, Unless someone's a psychopath, they're not going to blanch if you bring up your deceased parent.

[Matt Ritter]

Right, Right. That's right. That's right.

[Aaron Caro]

But I wanted to actually ask you this. Like, let's say you do bring it up a month, six months, nine months, a year later, and the person starts crying. It's not a bad thing. It's like, you didn't make them someone.

[Matt Ritter]

Right. It's not a bad thing. Right? Right.

[Aaron Caro]

Or is it?

[Matt Ritter]

No, no, I think what you're saying is important. It's not a bad thing that somebody's that you asked about, did. You're showing empathy and the person starts crying.

[Aaron Caro]

What if you upset them? What if you upset them?

[Matt Ritter]

I know. But I. You know that. Then you upset them, and then you can talk it out and say, hey, man, sorry, I didn't mean to bring that up. If you don't want me to, I won't anymore.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah.

[Matt Ritter]

And then you'll know, hey, I don't want you. Or they could say, look, no, I actually really do appreciate you. Because, like, us talking about this now. Yeah. I started welling up. It's not like a bad thing to me. Like, crying isn't bad. How about that? Like, having emotions isn't bad. Emoting in front of your friends as a man isn't bad.

[Aaron Caro]

What. What a. What a revelation. It's okay, by the way. Instead of bottling it up like us and then, you know, going on a shooting spree. But it's a good, you know, listen, that's a good thing for guys to know. Like, you know, if your buddy cries, it's okay.

[Matt Ritter]

Right. And if you, quote, unquote, triggered it by asking about their mother who died, like.

[Aaron Caro]

Right.

[Matt Ritter]

You didn't do a bad thing.

[Aaron Caro]

Right. I mean, is there any universe when you're like, I don't know. I don't know if you were out and about doing something completely different and someone said something.

[Matt Ritter]

Context. You shouldn't do it in public with a lot of people.

[Aaron Caro]

Okay, Interesting. Okay.

[Matt Ritter]

I don't think you should. I. Because I do think it's triggering and it is hard when you're in a social setting and suddenly you're, like, having grief. So let's do. Yeah, let's give a little best practice. I think you should do it in one on one.

[Aaron Caro]

So, like, if you run into your trainer three months from now at the bar, you would. You would probably say, how you doing? How you holding up?

[Matt Ritter]

I would. I would, but I'm just saying I wouldn't. You know, I try not to. Like, you gotta let them lead again. Go back to, like, let them lead. Give a. Leading, you know, ish. If they immediately move on. Do not press.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah. I think ultimately it's like, they just want you to know that you're there for them. Like, you're there, that you're there. That's. That's it. I mean, you're not going to solve this.

[Matt Ritter]

Yep.

[Aaron Caro]

And you're not going to make them feel better.

[Matt Ritter]

Yep.

[Aaron Caro]

And they're not going to, by. By the way, even be able to appreciate in the moment. It's. By the way, it's also, you know, Matt, you. You've been talking about recently, like, it may be inconvenient for you, the friend who's helping, you're dropping everything.

[Matt Ritter]

You're.

[Aaron Caro]

You're going to them, you're flying to them. That's just. That's just the price of friendship. In a good way.

[Matt Ritter]

Right? Friendship is a selfless act and there's conflicts and. Oh, yeah, I wanted to ask you this. You know, you're always good, like, naming these. I don't know, should we come up with like a, I don't know, 90 day rule? Like, here's what I think. I think what happens is what would really help the grieving process. I was thinking about this a lot will really help the grieving process is if there was a second wave.

[Aaron Caro]

Okay, got it. So the people within the window where,

[Matt Ritter]

you know, that person's still feeling like

[Aaron Caro]

crap,

[Matt Ritter]

you know, if there was like a designated second wave person, I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna check in with him, you know, in a month.

[Aaron Caro]

Right. You need like an sgb, a secondary grief.

[Matt Ritter]

Right. Like, because when our buddy Brian, when his mom passed, I was like, all right, let me check in with him now. But also let me remember to check in with him in a month when all the calls stop.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, yeah.

[Matt Ritter]

Because I think when you think about it, you know, you've got a hundred people, you can't even keep track of who's sending you flower. You don't even. You're so in a haze, you don't even remember who showed up. You do remember, but in the moment, it's so dizzying and you're so lost, and then a week later, everybody's gone and you're struggling, you know, and a month later, you're still struggling and nobody, Nobody's talking to you about it.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah.

[Aaron Caro]

That is a good. That's a good reminder to. To follow up.

[Matt Ritter]

Second wave.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah,

[Matt Ritter]

you know, like first responders, second responders, second responder.

[Aaron Caro]

Well, grief. Grief isn't brief.

[Matt Ritter]

Grief isn't brief. That's good.

[Aaron Caro]

Do we answer that question?

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah, I think it was. Look, I think it was a great question. And I think we said there is no right answer for grief. And you could be mad, but I just don't think it serves you if this person is a good friend. You know, most people don't know what to do because there's no guidebook on these things.

[Aaron Caro]

I mean, of all the slights we have discussed in the 3 1/2 years of pod, this is one of the one. This is one of the only ones that I'm like, let it be right

[Matt Ritter]

or you have a chance to Repair it by going, hey, you know, I was thinking about my mom and just see how they react.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah, I think. I think that's good advice.

[Matt Ritter]

Could give them an opportunity to be a good. Give them an opportunity to be a good friend.

[Aaron Caro]

I agree. All right, guys, that was asking for a friend. If you have a friendship question, send it to us on Instagram. It will answer it on the show. Matt, any. Anything you wanna wrap up with? Anything you want to talk about, your. Your dad, anything you want to say?

[Matt Ritter]

No, man. I just told my kid this morning. I said, you would have loved him. You guys would have had a good time. You know?

[Aaron Caro]

What do you think? Sorry.

[Matt Ritter]

Yeah. No, sometimes. So it's funny. Julian looks at this weird thing, you know, where people say they look like a relative, like my. My younger son looks like my dad. It's not just like that. They look like them. It's like they're in there. It's a bizarre thing. I'm not like, no, he doesn't look like him. Like, I. I can see my dad. It's kind of amazing. Like, you live on through your children and you're great. Like, you live on through features, like Jess's grandma lives on through Brenner's upper lip and nose. It's bizarre. He makes an expression. I'm like, your grandma is sitting right there on the counter.

[Aaron Caro]

What do you think that your pop would have thought about this podcast?

[Matt Ritter]

I mean, he would have said, like, what he said when I made my first. When I made. When I made that documentary film. He's like, one day you will make a real movie.

[Aaron Caro]

Oh, Izzy, man, that's perfect. I mean, honestly, you put that on the box. Yeah.

[Matt Ritter]

One day you will make a real movie.

[Aaron Caro]

It was great. That's great.

[Matt Ritter]

Anyway, I think this. Hopefully, this was helpful to anybody who's out there grieving or anybody who has a friend who's grieving. Hopefully they gave you some. Some ammo to. To step up and meet the moment. Just say something.

[Aaron Caro]

Yeah. By the way, guys, if you are going through this or have a friend, just reach out to us and we will. We will do our best to try to guide you. Okay? Thank you so much for listening. Always remember, be good to yourself. Be good to your friends.

[Matt Ritter]

Love you, Buddy.

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