Andy Schonfeld of Tatari on Taking Shots at DSPs and Why TV is Different

Summary

Marketecture: Get Smart. Fast.
Episode: Andy Schonfeld of Tatari on Taking Shots at DSPs and Why TV is Different
Host: Ari Paparo | Guest: Andy Schoenfeld, CRO of Tatari
Date: June 24, 2026

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Episode Overview

This Marketecture episode features an insightful conversation between Ari Paparo and Andy Schoenfeld, Chief Revenue Officer at Tatari. The discussion centers around Tatari's bold advertising moves at Cannes, the limitations of DSPs in television, the evolving landscape of TV ad buying, the vital role of data, and the latest in CTV vendor ecosystems. The pair also touch on major industry news and Tatari’s view on AI in media buying, finishing off with a quick-fire round revealing Tatari’s spirit animal.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Tatari’s Bold Billboard at Cannes ([01:45] – [03:45])

• Billboard Message: Tatari deployed a provocative billboard in Cannes reading “DSPs are on the TV sidelines,” naming major DSPs and highlighting the limitations of programmatic TV buying.
• Andy’s Rationale:

  “It’s not that programmatic’s bad or that we don’t think you should do it... But the reality is that programmatic TV is a sliver of the $90 billion market. And that's the message we're telling there.” — Andy ([03:21])

• Impact: The intent was to spark conversation and underline Tatari’s capacity to access premium TV inventory—like the Super Bowl—that’s generally unavailable via DSPs.

2. Why Most Major TV Events Still Require Direct Buying ([03:45] – [05:14])

• Ari’s Question: Can most major sports TV inventory be bought via DSPs?
• Andy’s Response:
  • You can buy some sports inventory programmatically, but the “big tentpole games”—Super Bowl, Oscars, Olympics—are bought directly, and not accessible via standard DSPs today.
  • “If you're a brand and you really want to take advantage of the biggest brand moments that TV can provide you, well then you need the right technology to be able to do that.” ([04:51])
  • Tatari’s position is that a convergent TV platform is needed to buy comprehensively across formats.

3. The Role of Data in TV Ad Buying ([05:14] – [07:09])

• Ari’s Reference: His article “It’s the Data Stupid,” arguing data is the key differentiator for DSPs.
• Andy’s Take:
  • Data is crucial, but only if you can access all relevant inventory.
  • “Data's super important through your DSP pipes, but if you can only access a portion of the inventory that you need to, well then that data is only working over a subset of inventory.” ([05:54])
  • Tatari leverages a decade of outcome-based campaign data to optimize not just targeting but campaign allocation across brands.

4. Upstream: Tatari’s Direct Integration CTV Platform ([07:09] – [09:16])

• Upstream Background:
  • Evolved from Tatari’s 2022 acquisition of The Viewpoint (native CTV SSP and ad server).
  • Purpose: streamline and automate direct IO-based streaming buys, bypass DSP and SSP “tags,” and facilitate measurement, transparency, fraud, and brand safety controls.
• Current Status:
  • Direct integrations with major publishers (Paramount, Warner, Tubi, Fox, NBCU, Disney).
  • Running a large portion of Tatari's streaming campaigns via Upstream.
  • Andy: “CTV is a supply constrained environment, not like the world... of programmatic display and online video... So if you can go direct to those publishers, you have a more streamlined approach.” ([08:39])

5. Industry News: Agency & DSP Relationships ([09:16] – [10:44])

• Publicis and the Trade Desk “Breakup/Makeup”:
  • Andy interprets recent tension and reconciliation as a sign of agencies auditing the ad-buying supply chain, particularly in TV.
  • “Tougher questions are starting to get answered... It’s definitely shedding some light on some issues around transparency and fees on fees.” ([10:24])
  • Programmatic remains important, but brands/agencies are seeking more transparency and direct buying options.

6. Fox and Roku Deal—Shift in CTV Buying ([10:44] – [11:57])

• Ari’s Query: Is this just consolidation or a major ecosystem change?
• Andy’s Insight:
  • Leans toward a significant shift: direct buying will matter even more in the future; not all inventory will be available in open programmatic markets.
  • “Direct buying is going to be ever more important... There is a world where that inventory is not going to be lit up in the open market through DSPs.” ([11:15])
  • Expects strategic advantage to those with direct publisher relationships.

7. The AI Hype Cycle and Tatari’s Approach ([11:57] – [14:13])

• AI at Cannes: “AI, AI, AI all over the place. Every banner I've seen besides ours is pretty much AI.” — Andy ([12:42])
• Tatari’s Stance:
  • Draws distinction between real AI (“intelligence”) and automation (“A without the I”).
  • AI’s value is “only as good as the data.” Tatari uses a decade of campaign performance to fuel media planning AI that can build detailed plans in seconds.
  • “You layer AI on top of [rich performance data] and you can do some really fast, quick, creative things.” ([13:30])
  • Predicts AI will be the central topic for years to come.

8. Lightning Round ([14:13] – [14:41])

• Competitive Advantage: “Convergent TV.” — Andy ([14:24])
• Biggest Challenge: “Noise.” ([14:28])
• Tatari’s Spirit Animal: “Rhino: thick skin, can get through anything, and you don’t want to mess with it.” ([14:37])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Programmatic TV is a sliver of the $90 billion market.” — Andy ([03:29])
• “You can't buy [the Super Bowl] through a DSP, at least not today. You can't get that through BidStream data.” — Andy ([02:47])
• “If we're only optimizing data to quasi bad inventory, then that could be problematic.” — Andy ([06:41])
• “CTV is a supply constrained environment, not like the world... of programmatic display and online video.” — Andy ([08:39])
• “Direct buying is going to be ever more important in the future... especially in the future, be able to buy that Fox inventory on Roku.” — Andy ([11:15])
• “The AI is only as good as the data.” — Andy ([13:09])
• “A rhino: thick skin, can get through anything and you don't want to mess with it.” — Andy ([14:37])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:45] Tatari’s Cannes billboard and programmatic vs direct TV
• [03:45] Direct buying’s necessity for major TV events
• [05:14] The debate over data as a TV differentiator
• [07:09] Intro and update on Tatari’s Upstream CTV platform
• [09:16] Agency and programmatic DSP partnerships—the Publicis/Trade Desk news
• [10:44] Fox-Roku partnership analysis
• [11:57] Tatari’s position on AI and agentic buying in TV ad tech
• [14:13] Lightning round: competitive edge, challenges, company spirit animal

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Final Thoughts

This episode offers a candid, behind-the-curtains look at how Tatari sees the TV ad landscape evolving. The conversation underscores Tatari’s conviction that direct access—enabled by technology and robust data—is key to winning major TV moments, and that as the CTV ecosystem matures, the clever integration of automation and intelligence will define the most successful players. Andy’s memorable analogies and candid assessments make this essential listening for TV buying insiders and ad tech innovators.

Transcript

[A]

Oh, hello, I'm Jeremy Bloom, co founder and CEO of marketexture Media. And boy do I have news for you. Market is back and if you've been watching from a distance thinking that looks phenomenal, but a trip to New York is just a bridge or several too far. We've got great news for you. We're bringing Market live to the beating heart of Adland. That's right. On September 23, 2026, market coming to Chicago. We're going to be bringing the same sold out energy, sharp insights and industry defining conversations to the center of advertising's biggest transformations from media and commerce to AI tech and modern marketing. This is where the people shaping what's next for the ad industry will be, want to be and need to be. Early registration is live now, so lock in your [e-mail] Again, lock in your ticket at chicago.architecture live.com Disclaimer I live in Chicago. It's not Chicago, it's Chicago.

[B]

Welcome to Architecture where you can get smart fast with in depth interviews of leading technology executives. This is Ari Paparo. I am joined today by Andy Schoenfeld who is the CRO of Tatari. Thanks for being here, Andy.

[C]

Thanks for having me, Ari.

[B]

Did I get your name, title everything right?

[C]

You actually got it perfectly on the first try. So I'm very impressed.

[B]

I am a professional. So we're here at can, we're at a luxurious architecture suite and we are talking about what Tatari's been up to. And the first thing that comes to mind is your provocative billboard. So there's for those of you who haven't been to Cannes, the main street, the play is just covered in advertisements which is appropriate. And there's a big one and it says DSPs are on the TV sidelines. It actually names the DSPs like you can imagine who like Vian, Tradeisk, et cetera and says Tatari gets brands in the big games. So that's a fastball up and high. Tell us about it.

[C]

That is a fastball up and high. First of all, did you see it and did you like it?

[B]

I saw it. I will withhold whether I liked it or not. Maybe I'll answer when you're done.

[C]

Okay, fair. Yeah. So look, first of all, we're in can so spirit of can go big, be creative and hopefully the viewers will see that. That's the angle and approach we took, especially the DSPs who by the way, I will foresay are great companies and we're lucky to be in great company with them. Up there on the billboard. Our real message here, Ari, was that it's not a message that Tatari hasn't said before, which is if you are buying programmatically in the TV landscape and that's the only thing you're doing well, then you're missing a huge piece of the TV market, particularly in this case exemplatory is big games, right? We had four brands in the super bowl this year. Obviously very excited about that. You can't buy that through a DSP, at least not today. You can't get that through BidStream data. And the same goes for large tentpole moments, right? The Oscars, the Olympics, the World cup, which is happening now, we're getting brands in these games all the time. Some of that through linear, some of that's through streaming, some of that's direct. But the reality is that programmatic TV is a sliver of the $90 billion market. And that's the message we're telling there. It's not that programmatic's bad or that we don't think you should do it. In fact, we do programmatic ourselves. But yeah, that was the message. It was a little bit of a high and to the right, but hopefully it was shade that everybody can appreciate.

[B]

All right, I'm going to say I think it worked. I think it worked because it's on strategy, right? You're trying to get the message across that you can buy things with Tatari, you can't with the DSPs and that's what the message was. Maybe naming them was a little mean spirited, but. But we get the point. So is it true that. Well, I guess you didn't say this, but I'm asking, can you buy most television, most sports, using a dsp or is it only the big games, meaning like the Super bowl, etc. Where you have to have the linear expertise?

[C]

Well, what I would say is you can certainly buy some sports programmatically and there are certain games you can buy and sort of sneak into at sort of a fractional level. But the big tent pole games, whether it's NFL, NBA, mlb, obviously super bowl, again being the biggest example, is bought direct today. There of course are technologies like Atari that allow you to do that in a more direct way and to measure it. But yeah, the reality is that's sold directly. And yeah, as I said, if you're a brand and you really want to take advantage of the biggest brand moments that TV can provide you, well then you need the right technology to be able to do that. Now you could use four different technologies to do that. You could work with a Holdco and Bilinear, do some upfronts, then the Holdco or the brand uses the DSP and you could buy certain pockets of inventory. But I would argue you can't do that in its totality, in the way that we've made that available for our brands from a convergent TV lens. And yeah, I don't know if that answers your question entirely, but hopefully, yeah, that's pretty good.

[B]

So let's talk about data. So I wrote a newsletter article about a month ago called it's the Data Stupid where I was making the point that the DS BSP differentiation is largely about first party data and that was driving certain M and A activities like Infilion. Buying Catalina was one example. So that's not really your play here. So you're you. Do you as a company or you personally disagree with my thesis from that article?

[C]

So I didn't read the article I'm saying, but in hearing you kind of speak through it, what I would say is data absolutely is a separator. There's no doubt about that. I guess going back to my earlier point about inventory constraint and inventory availability through a dsp, it would be that, yeah, data's super important through your DSP pipes, but if you can only access a portion of the inventory that you need to in its totality, well then that data is only working over a subset of inventory. So having availability to all inventory plus the data and leveraging that for lots of different ways. Obviously there's targeting through DSP or audience validation, but also outcome and measurement. So Atari, for example, you know, we have 10 years worth of historical outcome based data from thousands of TV campaigns and billions of dollars and we can leverage that data to smartly allocate impressions to the right brand.

[B]

Right.

[C]

If I know that this particular household works better for, let's say a sports apparel brand versus women's clothing or a fintech brand, well then I can hopefully affect the outcome of that impression to work smarter and better. So yeah, data is very important. But if we're only optimizing data to quasi bad inventory, then that could be problematic. I saw, actually I think it was a shout out to Erez, who wrote an article recently on architecture as well about this and I 100% agree with him there around data in, data out. And so we have to be very careful in this world of AI and agentic to make sure we're optimizing for the right data.

[B]

So the only thing I heard is that you read Ares, but you don't read May. But it's kind of an interesting thing in that the DSPs were largely developed in a banner world where you had effectively unlimited inventory and very valuable data. And the TV world is sort of the opposite where you have very limited inventory and sparse and unreliable data. So that kind of puts a little bit of a bow on that kind of conversation. So at Architecture Live in March, I ran a conversation, we're not going to call it a panel with Tatari, that was largely focused on your launch of the Upstream product. Why don't you tell us how's it going, maybe remind the audience what Upstream is and give us the latest.

[C]

So Upstream is sort of a manifestation or an evolution of a acquisition we actually did back in 2022, I believe it was of a company called the Viewpoint, which was native ctv, SSP and ad server tech. And we bought that not to go compete with the Magnites and the Pubmatics of the world. We bought that to get closer to supply and to automate all of sort of the direct IO based buying we were doing from a streaming perspective. So fast forward obviously to this year. We announced Upstream, which was that repurposing. We did direct integrations and announcements with five major publishers, all the large ones, you know, Paramount, Warner, Tuby, Fox, nbcu, Disney. And so obviously we're super excited about that. We are now running a very large portion of our impressions and streaming campaigns through that platform, which again allows us to bypass dsp, SSP tag, do direct measurement, be able to remove things like fraud and brand safety, get a lot more transparency. And our argument has always been that CTV is a supply constrained environment, not like the world. You know, maybe you or I grew up in, in programmatic display and online video, where there's thousands and thousands of publishers and where audience data makes sense at scale. So if you know that and you can go direct to those publishers, you have a more streamlined approach into that inventory. And so it's going really well. We're going to be onboarding more publishers throughout this year.

[B]

And yeah, for the record, I've been working on video since 2004, but I'll, I'll accept that it's the second time today I've been called like a banner guy. So there's been a lot of news lately. So let's, let's talk about some news and what's going on here. So Publicis and the Trade Desk, they broke up and now they got back together. A little Taylor Swift situation here. How do you think about that is that an important milestone in terms of agencies wanting to control their own destiny or is there something else going on?

[C]

I think there's a lot of posturing in here. But what I take away from that whole story, and obviously I only know what I read, is that there's starting to be some sort of kinks right in the ship here and that has been a domino effect for other hold coast to sort of start auditing their supply chain and to look into what's going on and particularly within the TV environment. So I kind of go back to the narrative broken record here of how Tatari thinks about conversion and Direct. But I think that their brands and as a byproduct agencies are coming around to the fact that there may be a better way to actually run TV and Programmatic may not be the only way. So I think tougher questions are starting to get answered. Now that doesn't mean that the Holtz coast won't work with the largest DSPs. They're going to have to. And Programmatic needs to be a piece of the overall strategy. But yeah, listen, I think that it's definitely shedding some light on some issues around transparency and fees on fees and I've talked about this in the past. So yeah, it'll be interesting to continue to watch how this evolves.

[B]

The other big news is the Fox Roku deal. So the CTV world is exceptionally complicated. Different supply chains and different companies have different pieces of the puzzle. Is this just consolidation or is this a big change in the way CTV will be bought and sold?

[C]

I'm going to go both, but I lean the latter. I mean, I think this is a major change for the ecosystem. You've got one of the largest, if not the largest operating system within the CTV environment combining with one of the largest, most legacy linear asset properties. But they've got amazing properties obviously in Fox Sports and what they run on kind of broadcast. I think it kind of goes back to this notion of two things that we talk about a lot, which is one, direct buying is going to be ever more important in the future because there is a world where that inventory is not going to be lit up in the open market through DSPs. At least that's my opinion. I think you need to have direct relationships, especially in the future, be able to buy that Fox inventory on Roku. Obviously the data that this is going to provide for Fox and the ability to start to close that off a bit more. So things will be interesting to see how this evolves. Obviously a big deal. I don't think most people saw coming that it was going to be Fox. But when you think about it, I think it was a smart move.

[B]

I think that the value to Fox seems pretty evident. Right. I think the kind of interesting story is that Roku was sort of developing its own walled garden, hedge garden with all the tools, the OCR, the self service buying, etc. Etc. And now it's a little bit unclear whether it's a major player or if it's just the tools that Fox will use and Fox advertisers would use. At least that's my hot take. So we're here at Cannes. So obviously the hot topic at Cannes this year isn't anything we've been talking about. It's two letters, AI. So what is Tatari's point of view on agentic buying? What have you been investing in and how do you see the demand for that sort of technology?

[C]

Yes, AI, AI, AI all over the place. Every banner I've seen besides ours is pretty much AI. Look, I think that obviously it's a super noisy space right now when it comes to AI and people's definition can even differ in terms of what it actually is. But Philippe actually published an article, I think last week about this where he talked about the A without the I, which is a lot of what we're seeing, right. There's automation and workflow that's happening and I think that's good for many companies obviously creating in the space and it's bringing new entrants into the space as well. But on the flip side, you want to have the intelligence. And to our perspective, my point of view is that the AI is only as good as the data. And again, so for us, 10 years of historical performance data, thousands of brands, billions of dollars, you layer AI on top of that and you can do some really fast, quick, creative things. One example is we built a media planning engine that allows us to feed all that data into the engine and allows a media buyer, whether that's a media buyer, Atari, or a self serve brand or agency using our platform to build a plan in seconds. What normally would have taken them 30 minutes, maybe 45. Particularly on the linear side, as you think about thousands of networks and rotations that you can buy across. So that's one is obviously execution, the other is within the upstream product. Right. So the ability to understand impression, how that performance works at the household level, like we talked about with the upstream launch, can only be done with the power of data and AI. And so we're super excited about it again, going to be something to evolve and watch. If I was a betting man, we're going to be in Cannes next year talking about AI again. Still, maybe for another few years, but yeah.

[B]

So you're telling me the A doesn't stand for artificial. It stands for automation.

[C]

For now.

[B]

Okay, let's do quick lightning round, some quick questions, quick answers. What is your number one competitive advantage?

[C]

Convergint tv.

[B]

What is your biggest challenge?

[C]

Noise.

[B]

And if Tatari was an animal, what animal would it be?

[C]

A rhino.

[B]

More detail. Why rhino?

[C]

Thick skin can get through anything and you don't want to mess with it.

[B]

There you have it. Andy Schoenfeld, CRO of Tatari. Thanks for being here.

[C]

Thanks for having me. Sam.