Bonus Episode: The Brand Forum, a New Podcast from Marketecture

Summary

Marketecture Podcast: Bonus Episode Summary – "The Brand Forum, a New Podcast from Marketecture"

Release Date: April 2, 2025

In this engaging bonus episode of the Marketecture Podcast, hosts Jeremy Bloom and Josh Palau introduce The Brand Forum, a new bi-weekly podcast dedicated to delving deep into the intricacies of brand building within today’s ad tech-centric landscape. Hosted by industry veterans Jeremy and Josh, this new series aims to provide marketers with insider perspectives on navigating the evolving world of advertising, media, and marketing.

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1. Introduction to The Brand Forum

Ari Paparo opens the episode by announcing the launch of The Brand Forum, setting the stage for what listeners can expect from this new venture.

• Ari Paparo [00:00]: “The Brand Forum is a new podcast that will come out every other week and is hosted by Jeremy Bloom and Josh Palau. They go deep on matters that really matter to brands.”

Jeremy and Josh follow Ari’s introduction by explaining the purpose and vision behind The Brand Forum.

• Jeremy Bloom [00:46]: “Our show centers on how companies build brands in an ad tech-centric world. Our goal is to focus on brand building, not ad tech.”

• Josh Palau [01:20]: “We really want to get to the heart of how you really build the brand... how to make that meaningful connection in a space that's just changed so much.”

2. Guest Introduction: Alex Birchmeier of Conagra Brands

The first episode features Alex Birchmeier from Conagra Brands, who brings his extensive experience from both agency and client sides to the discussion.

• Jeremy Bloom [03:05]: “Our guest today is a marketing leader with experience on the agency, sales, and most recently client side at Conagra Brands... known for brands like Slim Jim, Ready Whip, and others.”

3. Defining a Strong Brand Identity

Alex Birchmeier delves into the foundational elements of building a strong brand identity, emphasizing the importance of product quality and availability.

• Alex Birchmeier [04:53]: “First, we always have to think about is, is the brand even ready to market?... making superior products so that when we do go to market with those, there isn't this horrible taste.”

He further elaborates on aligning internal value propositions with external consumer perceptions.

• Alex Birchmeier [05:50]: “Marketing cannot solve your business challenges all the time. You just can't market yourself out of a bad product.”

4. Aligning Internal and External Brand Perceptions

The conversation shifts to the challenges of ensuring that what the company believes about its product aligns with consumer perceptions.

• Alex Birchmeier [07:17]: “There definitely are times where you're like, does the consumer really care about that attribute that we think they do?”

• Jeremy Bloom [06:42]: “Can you walk us through a time when there's been a disconnect of the brand perception...”

5. Challenges of Marketing Legacy Brands

Alex discusses the unique hurdles of marketing legacy brands in a fast-paced, ever-changing media environment.

• Alex Birchmeier [09:12]: “Gone are the days of annual plans... we are always kind of adjusting the plans, whether that be the targeting strategies, the creative messages, the partners we're leveraging.”

He highlights the balance between maintaining brand legacy and adapting to new consumer behaviors and media consumption patterns.

• Alex Birchmeier [11:00]: “The attention spans of people right now are kind of fleeting. You can build a brand up quickly, but you can also build it down very quickly as well.”

6. Managing Multiple Brands and Vendor Partnerships

Managing a portfolio of over 85 brands presents significant challenges in prioritization and vendor management.

• Alex Birchmeier [16:15]: “Prioritization is critical... prioritize platforms, prioritize brands, prioritize messages, and prioritize formats.”

• Alex Birchmeier [18:15]: “The fun and magic and the ideas really can kind of get born from... tier two partners that are really willing to pull up their sleeves.”

7. Balancing Brand and Performance Marketing

A pivotal discussion centers on whether to treat brand and performance marketing separately or as integrated components of a unified strategy.

• Josh Palau [22:32]: “How do you treat brand and performance separately? Do you bucket them together?”

• Alex Birchmeier [22:33]: “There is no. We have one budget and they should all be in service of... driving sales and share of our products.”

He advocates for a holistic approach where both brand and performance marketing efforts are aligned towards common business objectives.

8. Preparing for the Next Generation of Consumers

The hosts explore strategies for engaging emerging generations, such as Gen Alpha and the upcoming Gen Beta, emphasizing authenticity and adaptability.

• Alex Birchmeier [20:02]: “These kids know deep fake videos... they understand that kind of stuff is just part of the gig now. They're going to sniff you out for not being authentic.”

• Alex Birchmeier [20:20]: “If you're gonna divide these groups up, where are these groups? What are they doing? Why are they doing it? Why are they there?”

He underscores the necessity of understanding the new generations’ behaviors and preferences to effectively connect with them.

9. Personal Reflections and Future Directions

In a lighter moment, Alex shares personal insights on his career path and reflects on his journey in marketing.

• Alex Birchmeier [24:35]: “I played tennis in college... working for a sports organization, maybe the ATP, something like that.”

10. Conclusion

Jeremy and Josh wrap up the episode by expressing their appreciation for Alex’s insights and reiterating the mission of The Brand Forum to provide valuable perspectives to marketers navigating the complex landscape of modern advertising and brand building.

• Jeremy Bloom [26:13]: “Thank you for being one of our earliest guests... thank you for being part of the Brand Forum.”

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Notable Quotes:

• Alex Birchmeier [04:53]: “First, we always have to think about is, is the brand even ready to market?... making superior products so that when we do go to market with those, there isn't this horrible taste.”

• Alex Birchmeier [07:17]: “Does the consumer really care about that attribute that we think they do?”

• Alex Birchmeier [22:33]: “There is no. We have one budget and they should all be in service of... driving sales and share of our products.”

• Alex Birchmeier [20:02]: “These kids know deep fake videos... they understand that kind of stuff is just part of the gig now. They're going to sniff you out for not being authentic.”

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Conclusion: This bonus episode effectively sets the stage for The Brand Forum, promising in-depth discussions on brand strategy and marketing challenges with industry experts. Alex Birchmeier’s candid insights into brand management, vendor partnerships, and adapting to new consumer generations provide valuable lessons for marketers seeking to build and sustain strong brands in a dynamic environment.

For those interested in exploring further, The Brand Forum is available bi-weekly, featuring interviews with leading thinkers and in-depth discussions on the latest trends in advertising and marketing.

Transcript

[Ari]

Hey, this is Ari. I'm happy to bring you a bonus episode of Mark Tektor's new podcast, the Brand Forum. The Brand Forum is a new podcast that will come out every other week and is hosted by Jeremy Bloom and Josh Palau. And they go deep on matters that really matter to brands. The first episode has got Alex Birchmeier of conagra Brands. And Alex talks through new channels, new boundaries, and how he balances time and effort across a powerhouse portfolio of brands like Slim Jim, Ready Whip, and others. I hope you enjoyed this episode and please go subscribe to the Brand Forum wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Jeremy Bloom]

Welcome to the Brand Forum, everybody. We are very excited to release one of our first episodes. What is the Brand Forum, you might be asking. Well, the Brand Forum, we dive deep into the world of advertising, media and marketing through an insider's lens. The people strategizing and spending on moving the needle. You, the marketer. Our show centers on how companies build brands in an ad tech centric world. Our goal is to focus on brand building, not ad tech. To hear how experts like yourself navigate the murky waters of swimming up and down the funnel.

[Josh Palau]

Awesome. And hey guys, I'm Josh and I'm excited to be here with you, Jeremy and our guest today. Just as a, as another piece to it as, as we were talking about this program, again, the idea of talking to brand people who are again trying to navigate this like ad tech, AI, data centric world, which are all incredibly important. But what we really want to get to the heart of is how do you really build the brand? Because ultimately the job of the marketer is to make that meaningful connection. And how do you do that in a space that's just changed so much? And so we thought about this idea of a podcast. Hopefully it lasts more than four episodes. We've bucketed the questions to be very much more specific around brand strategy, general marketing, you know, some future stuff and also just like just some fun stuff. And so we're really excited about the, about bringing this to everybody.

[Jeremy Bloom]

Josh, that was, that was an awesome intro and I'm laughing because here I was reading this. I've done many pods, many different videos, so. Hey everybody, I'm Jeremy Bloom. I'm the co host of the Brand Forum. I'm the co founder of Market Media and the founder of. Oh, hello AI. We are so excited to introduce you to our next guest. The man is a legend. He is a marketing leader with experience on the agency, sales and most recently client side at a fantastic CPG company known as conagra Brands just hitting his sixth year anniversary. That's a lot in our space. He leads the marketing activation team, which encompasses media strategy across three sectors of the US and Canada. Retail and the food service segment, as well as owned website and CRM capabilities. This gentleman is also known for his insatiable love for Ready Whip, Guardian and Slim Jims. But hold on. I found this in my fridge. Some Vlasic pickles, everybody, so.

[Alex Birchmeier]

Oh, thank you.

[Jeremy Bloom]

Hear that? Do you hear that pop? We're going to start this pod with a knife.

[Josh Palau]

This is where we really test how good the mics are.

[Alex Birchmeier]

Oh. Oh, thank God. There was a crunch. Oh my gosh. I was like, how sad would that have been if it was just like a little mush sound that happened?

[Jeremy Bloom]

Yes.

[Josh Palau]

And I, And I want to verify for the, for the audience like we. This is one take. Like there was not a soft pickle in that batch right there. You hit it on the first one.

[Alex Birchmeier]

And I did not know that Jeremy was hiding pickles next to his desk. I will, I will say that.

[Jeremy Bloom]

What do you expect? Anything less for me? Come on, Alex.

[Alex Birchmeier]

We've known each other for a very long time. I love it. You know, that's one of my favorite brands. We have 85 brands that. 85 plus brands, I should say at Canaga because it keeps changing. But that is definitely one of my favorites. Pickles are definitely having a moment right now.

[Josh Palau]

Oh, absolutely. And probably. And by the way, that's probably a great. A great part for us to jump in on. So great intro from. From Jeremy. But Alex, like, let's hear from you.

[Alex Birchmeier]

Oh, man. Yes. Thank you, Jeremy, for that intro. Yes. I've seen, I've seen all the sides of the coin from a marketing perspective. I started an agency, went to the sales side, went back to the agency, and now I found myself on the client side. Pros and cons to each and every one of them. Happy I did all of them, but really excited to be here talking about all things marketing. It's been a journey for all of us. Navigating a pandemic, all of that. And now marketing in 2025. Here we go.

[Josh Palau]

Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's incredible. And so I think that's what. And that's. I think we talked about this is what made us really think about the program is, is how do you, how do you think about that brand piece? And so, I mean, if we look at. Just dive right in. I mean, I think, I think first off, like one of the things that's interesting about where you work is, is like you said, there's just a vast number of. Sure. There's sort of some commonalities in themes, in sort of the marketing piece of it. So like first and foremost, like how do you define a sort of a strong brand identity?

[Alex Birchmeier]

Yeah, I mean, yes, we have 85 different brands, but there are, to your point, commonalities between, like how we would get started on a brand that we want to focus marketing on. And I think the first thing we always have to think about is, is the brand even ready to market? Because if there are value propositions or perceptions of the product or things that are just not aligning with what internally you're thinking the product has versus what externally people are saying, or if they're even saying anything about your product, you got to align those and match those first. So we always, we always talk about first and foremost making superior products so that when we do go to market with those, there isn't this horrible taste. Oh, this isn't worth it. This, you know, you are going to get that immediate feedback whether you like it or not. So we always focus there first. Secondly, making sure this thing is available, whether if you're a D2C, if you're a service, if you are in store, wherever you can be bought, make sure that actually people can buy you. So those are kind of the first two elements that we always start with first before we're like, are we going to actually market this thing? Because marketing cannot solve your business challenges all the time. You just can't market yourself out of a bad product. So it start there and then, then we go from there and go, okay, what are those perceptions people have of us? It's not just a one way communication anymore of here's our ad, we're going to slap it to you and you're going to, you're going to enjoy it. There are so many options, endless kind of ideas of what people think your product is, do they align? And let's see if there's any commonalities between that. If there's a perception that your product is that you have, that you think you have with them, great. You can kind of really start moving forward with that. If there is a disconnect, start back to, you know, step one of where I was kind of talking about, but from my perspective, start there with your product. The human truths of the product, the value propositions and then what people actually care about with relevancy.

[Jeremy Bloom]

Alex, can you walk us through a time when there's been a disconnect of the brand perception of how internally the team has potentially looked at or thought about a particular product or how it was going to launch.

[Alex Birchmeier]

I think you know from that perspective there's often times where you have just a slew of RTBs the reasons to buy that you think some part consumers really think that they really want this product or I'm not going to give it, I'm not going to give examples of the exact ones because it would you.

[Jeremy Bloom]

Colleagues. We get it. We have colleagues and Comp SAMs and PR teams. We get it.

[Alex Birchmeier]

Exactly. So I won't give the specifics but there definitely are times where you're like is does the consumer really care about that attribute that we think we care about that people really think that they're. This is the reason why they're buying the product. From a ConAgra perspective, we buy fast moving goods all the time. People are buying on price, they're buying on different types of value whether that be convenience, speed, those types of things. So oftentimes these grand old huge RTBs that we think are the. These why they're buying the product. Absolutely. Aren't the why they're buying the product at all. We got to meet people where they're at and why they. What they consider value at the end of the day.

[Josh Palau]

Yeah, that makes sense. It's, it's funny the, the reasons to believe I've. I've lived through a few of those in, in consumer backgrounds and clients and you're. I mean stating the obvious. But you said it. It's. Yeah, I mean it's. Would, would you think is the unique selling proposition or the reason that consumer is going to care It. It may be but it could also be price. It could be distribution. It could just be. I like the color of the bottle. You know it's like. But there's, but there is something about winning that out that's, that's kind of interesting. So when you so like if you have to. So taking that, that initial question then looking at like today's landscape and again not, not going to leave the witness but you know, building a brand today versus building a brand, I mean gosh, even 30 years ago or even when I first got in this space which is 25 years ago, very different and so just curious like what are the, what challenges are you facing? And I think, I'm sorry but I'm going to add to this question like you also, you're also working at a place that is a legacy like company that has got Brands that have been around forever, you know, like these new brands that have popped up are interesting, but like you're, you're in a brand that has a history and a legacy and so like what, what challenges today?

[Alex Birchmeier]

Yeah.

[Josh Palau]

Like, yeah, where is Orville these days?

[Alex Birchmeier]

I know from Valparaiso, Indiana, but Orville rested soul. But no, these, this is. Okay, I'm going to take the question in two parts here because, because I.

[Josh Palau]

Was, because I was long winded.

[Alex Birchmeier]

No, I know. Absolutely not. But I just, I don't want to make sure I blend these together because I think it's important to kind of bifurcate what, what these questions are because if we take the first part of that where it was, you know, how do we planned in a, in a crazy kind of like in a new world of advertising than it was 15, 20 years ago? And I, I started in digital at the digital investment part of agency, which got in 2010's Wild, Wild West. I had probably no idea what I was buying with all these ad networks, all of these different places, but we were printing money and saying we need to be in digital, which was, we were a success, I guess at that point. But the thing with it now is we are in a constant state of planning. There is no annual plans anymore. That is long gone. There are, there are the, gone are the days of create your one to two spots, your one to two print insertions, your maybe one Facebook post and call it a day, measure it six months later and then replant it all over again. So I would say we are always kind of adjusting the plans, whether that be the targeting strategies, whether that be the creative messages, whether that be the partners that we're leveraging. Like that is in constant state of flux now. We just have to kind of live with that world. But it's social and digital is great because you can test really quickly, you can fail really quickly, you can learn really quickly and all of that. But it also makes it. The curse of that is you could test really quickly, you could learn really quickly and you could, you know, you, you're in this constant kind of state of just change, change, change. But I think that is the norm now. So, so that is kind of the difference that I'll say 15, 20 years ago than today, which is always planning. But then legacy brands, so now taking legacy brands and I'm going to take conagra brands out of this because it's not really a consumer facing company like our competitors are. You know, like we don't really have a strategy to you know, go after and say, hey, this is ConAgra. This is, this is what, you know, we. But we do have businesses and brands though that are legacy brands and accumulation of our fridge frozen brands, our grocery snack brands. We have again, 85 plus brands. They're all in different kind of. I call it buckets, though. There are people that love Manwich. It's not a brand that we market that much, but there is a legacy and something like that to it. There are brands that we've accumulated over the years that have these legacies and if we are going to plan on marketing that kind of like how I brought up in the beginning, what are people saying? Are they saying anything? Are they not saying anything? What are their perceptions of that? And really diving into that, you can play it up. You can also try to change those perceptions over time. It's going to be a little bit harder to do that because of the legacy that they may have. But in this day and world, the news cycle is constantly moving our attention spans. I know you guys just talked to Adelaide. I want attention and all that kind of stuff. So, like, the attention spans of people right now are kind of fleeting. So you kind of can build a brand back up quickly, but you can also build a brand down very quickly as well. So you kind of have to play with that legacy if it's good for you. And if it's not, you have to really try to rewind the tape and make it right.

[Jeremy Bloom]

And now we'll be tagging in Jaclyn Keller and Sam Mark from comScore to give you a taste of something we'll be cooking up together this year. A sponsored pod buster, Dishing with Divas.

[Jaclyn Keller]

Hi, I'm Jaclyn Keller, ComSport CMO. And I'm here with Sam Mark, one of our commercial leaders, host of Dishing with Divas. Here. We've got a full course ahead. So, Sam, what's on the menu?

[Sam Mark]

I'll be inviting data divas from across the industry to sit at the table with me. Together, we'll take a bite of today's biggest challenges, from linear TV to programmatic pipes. Soup to nuts, if you will.

[Jaclyn Keller]

Yum.

[Sam Mark]

We'll get into DSPs, DMPs, SSPs, CTV, SVOD, AVOD, SAS, DAS fast quality and performance guaranteed.

[Jaclyn Keller]

Well, that's about full. Sounds like it's going to be sweet.

[Sam Mark]

And spicy savory too. We're going to help folks take home that bacon.

[Jaclyn Keller]

So you'll be writing a new recipe in each brand forum drop.

[Sam Mark]

Yes, it's going to Be a really divine treat. We'll be like two peas in a pod.

[Jaclyn Keller]

Nothing half baked. Well, except for cookies. We've been adjusting the heat on those since 2020.

[Sam Mark]

We're looking at cookies crumbling and hotcakes selling.

[Jaclyn Keller]

Sounds like kids. I mean, divas in a candy store.

[Sam Mark]

Promise we'll have our cake and eat it too. And there's even icing on that cake.

[Jaclyn Keller]

Sam, this is ridiculously cheesy.

[Sam Mark]

Diva dish with a cherry on top.

[Jaclyn Keller]

I'm sure it'll measure up.

[Alex Birchmeier]

Can't wait.

[Josh Palau]

How about let's. Let's go to, like, future, I guess, or. Actually, I know I want to go back to the planning thing, if you don't mind. So I'm a big partner integration person. I can. I can share multiple times where I've had partners email me and say, hey, you put me on the email with the other partner. I think you missed made a mistake. I was like, no, I was like, I just wanted to send one email, guys. And again. And it's not for any sort of, like, Game of Thrones, you know, maneuver. It's just like, I want to have everybody in the room at the same time. How do you guys bring your partners, like, into the planning process?

[Alex Birchmeier]

I think you kind of have to now at this point. Like, it's. It's not just an agency does the planning and the strategic thought comes from the client, and then the fun idea comes from, you know, the vendor. Like, those days to me are long gone at this point. Good ideas can come from anywhere, whether that be from a vendor partner, whether that be from an agency or be internally. And sometimes, you know, even if you're talking to your random friend that goes, what about this? And you're like, I didn't even think about it like that. Like, having outside perspective in this day and age, I'm like, I'm all for it. So you have an idea. Let's talk about it. Some ideas are better than others. But at the end of the day, bringing the partners in and having a simple brief that a creative agency, a media agency, a partner can literally all look and gravitate towards. Because if that simple brief, though, that has those human truths that have those things that you want to really kind of drive, and if they're all working from that one document, that has been a huge help in kind of just corralling all the different pieces together. Because at the end of the day, it shouldn't just be a media plan and a creative plan and all these other plans. They have to come together. If they're going to break through. Yep.

[Josh Palau]

Makes a lot of sense in your.

[Jeremy Bloom]

Kind of role then Alex, how If you're across 85 different brands, you are working with hundreds and hundreds of different vendors. We might even be hitting thousands of vendors based on all the different formats of, of media. I'm not even gonna go down, go down that pipe of, of how many different factors and divisions and deferential treatments there are in terms of formats of media. How do you balance your time as a, as a marketing leader, as a media leader within our ecosystem. Before we start recording, we were talking about a big event that's coming up and how you are going to be allocating some of your time going to big meetings, going to big events. Like how do you do that? How do you breathe?

[Alex Birchmeier]

Like this is a real question. You're a person, right? I am not AI yet. So prioritization is critical here. Like I am not. I will tell you right now, I'll be the first to tell you I am not working with hundreds and thousands of partners. I have to be focused on a certain amount of brands. I'm not working on all 85 I unless you want to start cloning me or you know, pulling a higher SG and a budget which is not going to happen. So we do have to prioritize from a brand perspective all in. And then from there I do have to prioritize where the target audiences that I'm going after and where those people are. So what platforms are they on, what type of targeting tactics am I looking for? And then based off of where those people are, what type of formats work the best. So that we're kind of making this list of prioritize platforms, prioritize brands, prioritize messages and prioritize formats because you're right, it can't, you can't do it all. So you have to, you have to have some sort of kind of gauge of what you're going to do and what you're not going to do. Because what you're not going to do is going to be 90, 95% of it. What you can do is the 5 to 10.

[Josh Palau]

Yeah. So I want to add to that or not add to it. I want to ask a follow up question on that one. So because what I find super interesting about multi, I guess multi brand organizations is like you. So I look meta and Google are going to cover a ton of what you guys need. Right. So when you look at it at the lens, you're looking at it how much are you able and no specifics around numbers. But like how much are you able to spend time with the, like, I don't know, call them Tier 2, Tier Threes or like innovation partners. Because I think about this a lot when it comes to again, multi brand companies of just, you know, look, the Meta will sell. Meta can manage 90% of your brands. Right, but, and there's nothing wrong with that. But, but, and there's a scale issue to having to manage for that and the time issue. So like how do you, how do you find the fringe ones to bring in? Is it, is it brand specific? Is it just like opportunity? Like what's the, what do you, what do you think there?

[Alex Birchmeier]

No, I, that's a good question. And oftentimes you're totally right. Like you could work on a plan with Google Meta all the time and it would, it would work, it would be fine, it would be a fine plan. You're not probably getting fired over it because they, they know, you know, you kind of know what you're getting with that. But where I find like the fun though is like these other like, let's call them tier two partners that are really willing to kind of pull up their sleeves and really give you kind of some differentiated, not only treatment, but also just ideas and things that you aren't probably going to get from the tier ones of the world. And that's where the fun and the magic and the ideas really can kind of get born from. So those kind of, those partners actually excite me a lot more. You have to now be diligent on how many of those types of meetings you take and kind of have some calculated bets on that. But if you have a great agency partner, if you have a, you know, if you have good partners in general and not even like JVP partners, but just like some contacts, not people that are chatbots that they're, they're going to tell you that you need to go to, but actual human interaction where you're like, actually that's a great idea. Let's talk more about that. That's where I think the best kind of fun and ideas marketing should be fun. At the end of the day, let's, let's be real. Like it shouldn't just be the spots and dots. Here's a, here's a Facebook story, here's a Google Ad display. You know, the fun comes from the idea and then how you can creatively break through to that idea is what I look for.

[Jeremy Bloom]

How are you preparing for the next generation of consumers? So we've talked about, you Mentioned AI, you mentioned chatbots, you mentioned being able to clone Alex Berchmeier. I don't think that's gonna happen.

[Alex Birchmeier]

I know. Yeah. Actually, I don't think they need another Alex Berchmere. I think one is good enough and that will be.

[Jeremy Bloom]

That one is great enough, my friend.

[Alex Birchmeier]

But no, I. Here we go. I mean, it was just yesterday we're talking about Gen Z and how we're gonna figure out Gen Z, and now we're talking about Gen Alpha and how we're gonna figure out Gen Alpha. And Now I think 2025, is it gen Beta that we're gonna beta?

[Jeremy Bloom]

I just read an article two days ago about Gen Beta.

[Alex Birchmeier]

I was like, oh, my God, I have even gotten my head wrapped around Gen Alpha yet. So here we go. But no, it is a great question. I mean, especially for legacy brands where gen, you know, Gen Alpha, Gen Z might not even know your brand, you know, like, they might not even have ever heard of you. Like, how do you even, like, start even thinking about that? So how I. So how we've been thinking about it is okay, if we're gonna, like, divide these groups up, where are these groups? What are they doing? Why are they doing it? Why are they there? Why would our brand have any right to play there in the first. In the first place? So, like, that's kind of how I kind of identify it. First is who are they? Where are they at? And then how do we show up is kind of the three answers that I, that I would ask. And if there's one that's like, I just don't think that's right. A, these kids know, and they know deep fake videos. Like, they know the algorithms. Like, they understand that that kind of stuff is just part of the gig now. So they're going to sniff you out for not being authentic, for just kind of pandering all that kind of stuff. So from my perspective, same brief, but if that brief can now apply to this new generation, let's test and learn it. But if we find that we're not showing up right, let's go back to the drawing board, because continuing to do the same thing on not resonating is just not going to be worth it at the end of the day.

[Josh Palau]

Yeah, that makes sense. I, I think also it's just, it's interesting to. Again, go back to your Manwich example. It's. It, you know, does that, does that click with it with a, with a Gen Alpha Gen. Even. Even the generation, which I forget the generation. This is actually my Kid's generation. Like I don't know if it does, you know, because they're. Are they healthy? That's it. Yeah, like health conscious, not healthy. It's just right. You know, it's. And by the way, not that I think not that it's not healthy. It's just more of like they make different choices unlike what they're having. So it's such a. Again, it's very interesting to have to like navigate this, this sort of space of yours. I. Before we get. So there's a fun question at the end. I do. I am curious and. And it's you. You sort of, you sort of talked about it a little bit when with the. Just the general conagra like overarching company but in terms of the brand versus performance. So this is by the way also just as a personal note, this is my like hill. Like do you. Do you separate out. And I'm not going to talk about from like a budgeting standpoint but like how do you guys. Do you treat brand and performance separately? Do you bucket them together? Like how do you think about brand?

[Jeremy Bloom]

I love this, love this.

[Alex Birchmeier]

I. This is. Okay, I love this question too because I think there people will die on the hill. And the other way too of this. But from my perspective, brand and performance, no, there is no. We have one budget and they should all be in service of at the end of the day doing the same exact goal which for certain companies may be something different but for us it's. We want to drive sales and share of our products full stop. And brand and performance should do both of that. They should complement each other in a way that you know, brand being more reach driving. You may have different metrics that you're looking at. You may be looking at more efficiency, you may be looking at more scale, more reach, those types of things. But it should always be in service to the business challenge that we're servicing. And then same with performance marketing, which is maybe your cost per acquisition, your, you know, your video view metrics, those types of things that are like a little bit more down funnel which I know the like. Do we still want to talk about the funnel or not? That's a question. But no one else has come up with a better idea. So we're going to say the funnel. But all of those need to be in concert at the end of the day trying to achieve business challenges. So to me brand and performance marketing are one. Yeah.

[Josh Palau]

And it's in the. With as any like sort of. I'm not calling myself a Good podcast. But I feel like in all these things, you're supposed to let your guests talk and, like, they would give their opinions, but there is a right answer. You just gave it just to that question.

[Alex Birchmeier]

But I was also like, oh, I could be dying on the other side of the hill too, here. And this could have been a fun little reveal.

[Josh Palau]

Yeah, no, no, it's. I mean, I've got. I've talked to the other side of that one. I agree with you wholeheartedly. I think it's really smart way to look at it. So. Awesome.

[Alex Birchmeier]

Great.

[Josh Palau]

Jeremy, you want to ask the big question?

[Jeremy Bloom]

Yeah. Well, Alex, if you could be doing anything else and like, when you decided you wanted to go into marketing, media advertising, when you look back at nearly 20 years, 15 to 20 years ago, when you decided to enter this ecosystem, jump into all this craziness, and because you have been on every side of our ether, call it, what would you be doing? How would you be spending your time?

[Alex Birchmeier]

Oh, man. Okay. So you know when you get asked this question when you're a kid, and if it's still like, do you mean.

[Jeremy Bloom]

Like when you're 44?

[Josh Palau]

Because.

[Jeremy Bloom]

Yeah, I do.

[Alex Birchmeier]

Yeah. When you grow up, what other age that could be? But I always said I wanted to be a substitute bus driver, which I will say now I don't think I want to be that. But that was what I said back then when I was like, four or five. So I'm like, wow, I've come a long way from, you know, and nothing, no wrong to any substitute bus driver out there. I did. I guess I didn't want my own route. So I just.

[Jeremy Bloom]

Big listenership of substitute bus riders just to be very.

[Alex Birchmeier]

I know. And I think they. They do God's work for those regular bus drivers that get sick and can't do their route. So props to all the substitute bus drivers, but I don't think I would pick that one now. I honestly, I think about this and, like, I played tennis in college and I. I did sports most of my life. I think, honestly, working for, like, a sports organization, maybe like the ATP, God, would it be in marketing, maybe, but, like, just working for something that I would be, like, have really close ties to growing up and working at that. Maybe the usta, you know, like, something like that, where I would be doing something, what I used to do all the time, but just helping a sport grow would be maybe what I would go for if I wasn't doing this.

[Jeremy Bloom]

That's awesome, Alex.

[Alex Birchmeier]

Great.

[Jeremy Bloom]

This has been great. We appreciate your Time. Thank you for being one of our earliest guests, Josh. This was fun. We had a lot of fun.

[Josh Palau]

We did all right.

[Jeremy Bloom]

We did all right.

[Josh Palau]

Considering I found out that was going on today. We did great.

[Alex Birchmeier]

No, I'm just kidding. I knew.

[Josh Palau]

Yeah, I figured it out. But, yeah. But no, this is great. Thank you so much. I mean, again, like, the goal of what we're trying to do is just hear more from the marketers. And. And by the way, like, I have to balance it. Like, I'm not. We're not. We're not against ad tech guys. Like, and I am, I am. I am on that side of the fence, too.

[Alex Birchmeier]

That's a part of the equation, for sure. I mean, it's, It's. It's honestly both. You need. You need both of these to make it all work at the end of the day.

[Josh Palau]

Yeah, exactly. But we want to just make sure we don't lose sight of the fact that, again, there's a consumer out there that you're trying to reach, and you can use all the AI and machine learning and technology that's out there, but if you don't have a good product, good message, a reason to believe, a good tug of the heartstrings, like, it doesn't matter how much meta ads you buy.

[Jeremy Bloom]

Love that you both just said that. We want to just provide a lens into how the marketers are thinking. That's as simple as it comes. So, Alex, thanks again, Josh. On to the next one. Thanks, everybody for listening and watching. And if you're interested in being on the show, reach out. Josh and I are going to create a forum soon, and thank you for being part of the brand forum. Thank you, guys.

[Josh Palau]

See you. He.