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Episode: CTV Ads 2025: Proving Outcomes Beyond Impressions with Jenny Wall at Marketecture Live

Host: Ari Paparo
Guest: Jenny Wall
Date: December 1, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the evolving landscape of Connected TV (CTV) advertising, focusing on how outcomes can finally be proven beyond mere impressions. Host Ari Paparo sits down with industry veteran Jenny Wall for an engaging conversation on measurement innovation, audience segmentation, attribution challenges, and why the word "TV" still matters in a fragmented media world. Jenny brings a marketer’s pragmatic energy, aiming to demystify ad tech for decision-makers and arguing that a focus on real outcomes is vital for both marketers and the survival of content creators outside the media giants.

Key Topics & Insights

1. Jenny Wall’s Role and Mission

• Simplifying Ad Tech: Jenny works to make complex ad tech ideas accessible, focusing on benefits for marketers rather than deep technical details.
• Driving Change in a Reluctant World: Her primary challenge is convincing conservative clients to embrace innovations that reduce waste and improve efficiency.
  • Quote: "I'm going to be more of the marketing versus the tech side of this...trying to do is sell something that is very complicated in a world where people do not want to change..." (02:10)
• Innovation vs. Entrenched Measurement: Jenny fears a lack of innovation will leave small content networks behind, deepening the market’s consolidation.

2. Do TV Ads Work? What Does ‘Works’ Mean?

• Video Works, TV Resonates: Jenny argues that video’s power comes from its emotional resonance—but the word “TV” evokes stronger reactions and nostalgia.
  • Quote: "When you say the word video, do you get any emotion? ... when you say the word tv, you're immediately like Arrested Development and Sopranos and Handmaid's Tale." (04:10)
• Defining Outcomes: Success is now defined not just by impressions, but by actual outcomes—sales, engagement, or achieving specific KPIs.
  • Quote: "I think it's outcomes like you're talking about. It all goes to sales or whatever your KPI is." (04:29)

3. The Shift to Audience-Based Currencies

• Audience Segmentation is the Future: There’s an increasing movement towards buying TV inventory based on sophisticated audience segments, not just traditional age/gender demos.
  • Example: For Pepsi, using advanced audiences led to decreased CPM, increased reach, and a 20% increase in sales.
  • Quote: "You should be buying on advanced audiences... With Pepsi we actually decrease the CPM, increase reach and increase sales by 20%." (06:25)
• Data-Driven Examples:
  • Advanced audiences can be as granular as “cat lovers who want to buy a Lincoln” (06:55), or more sophisticated targets like those already using a competitor’s product.

4. Privacy & Clean Rooms in Data Activation (07:57–09:09)

• Brands are moving to privacy-safe “clean rooms” with advanced identity resolution, using multiple data points for precise targeting and measurement.
• VideoAmp’s Approach: Their proprietary clean room takes six signals (not just third-party data brokers) for stronger identity matches.

5. Measuring Outcomes: Beyond Last Click (09:10–10:35)

• Jenny champions mid-funnel intent data (like search volume proxies) instead of relying solely on last-click attribution.
• Finding: Many conversions are driven by brand demand created earlier, which can be measured via search intent (mid-funnel).

6. Connected TV for SMBs vs. Large Brands (10:35–11:09)

• SMBs may take a more direct, conversion-focused approach, while larger brands see CTV as one part of a much broader, multi-channel campaign.

7. QR Codes in TV Ads: Their Staying Power (11:09–11:53)

• Both admit surprise at the persistence of QR codes in TV campaigns but acknowledge that they still drive measurable engagement.
  • Quote: "I can't believe they're still around. But I thought they were gonna be gone after Covid... But I, I sadly think they do work though." (11:12, 11:42)

8. The Challenge of Walled Gardens & Cross-Platform Measurement (11:57–13:12)

• Brands struggle when platforms (Meta, YouTube, Snap, etc.) “grade their own homework,” so third-party validation is increasingly valued.
  • Cross-Platform Attribution: VideoAmp integrates with Meta's lift tool and aggregates first-party data from premium partners; this enables one-stop cross-channel measurement.

9. Dual Currencies: Nielsen vs. Advanced Audiences (14:18–15:42)

• There is often a duality where buyers transact against both legacy Nielsen panels and advanced audience guarantees.
  • Quote: "We are in a conundrum... you do have to reconcile those. And it's not necessarily apples to apples..." (14:43)
• Jenny argues this complexity will push the industry toward true price flexibility and innovation.

10. Practicalities of Media Buys & IOs (Insertion Orders) (15:48–17:53)

• For legacy currencies, underperformance leads to “payback” (make-goods).
• Jenny warns that this volatility disproportionately threatens smaller networks who can’t afford to fulfill unexpected obligations, heightening market consolidation risk.

11. The Evolution of “TV” and Media Convergence (17:53–19:08)

• The distinction between TV and digital video is fading. All content—whether from influencers, traditional networks, or micro-dramas—is essentially video content fighting for the same ad dollars.
  • Quote: "I think so. I mean, I think it's just content... if you enjoy watching it... it's all, and I still say tv." (18:13)

12. Fast Feedback and Optimization (19:08–20:05)

• Real-time or near-real-time feedback loops are now possible: marketers can optimize campaigns within a week or two, a quantum leap from legacy media measurement.
  • Quote: "I'd like to say real time optimization. Sometimes it's a week, right. Or two weeks, but it's pretty real time compared to like an mmm where you're always looking backwards." (19:32)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Waste less, save more kids." — Jenny, on the simple, powerful marketing mantra used at St. Jude’s (02:29)
• "I don't know why people are still buying demos unless you're buying football." (05:59)
• "Last click I think is the wrong way to look at things. Obviously it's an input ... But I think that's why I really like the ... mid funnel intent." (10:03)
• "Grading your own homework ... a lot of people are looking for the third party validation." (12:22)
• "We are in a conundrum because people are selling on ... Nielsen and then ... transacted advanced audiences on us. You do have to reconcile those." (14:43)
• "If we don't get stability in this, in this marketplace, we're going to be stuck with Warner Brothers, Paramount ... But all these little long tail networks are going to go away because they can't, they can't afford to do that." (17:10)
• "Everything's TV." (19:08)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:10] Jenny on Making Ad Tech Simpler & Reducing Waste
• [04:10] Why "TV" Still Matters Emotionally
• [06:25] The Power of Advanced Audiences
• [09:10] Intent Data as a More Accurate Attribution Metric
• [11:12] The Surprising Persistence of QR Codes
• [12:22] Challenges with Walled Gardens and Need for Third-Party Validation
• [14:43] Dual Currencies and Market Complexity
• [17:10] Market Instability Threatens Small Networks
• [19:32] Real-Time Optimization Possible in CTV

Conclusion

This episode underscores how TV—and all video—is being redefined by outcome-based measurement, smarter use of audience data, and innovations that shrink the gap between ad spend and real sales. Jenny Wall’s marketer-focused lens reveals the practical and philosophical challenges facing CTV advertisers in 2025, and why flexibility, speed, and a willingness to question legacy systems are crucial for both brands and content creators.