Marketecture Podcast, Ep. 152: Jim Payne is Back! His New SDK Lets You Control Monetization with AI

Date: December 12, 2025
Host: Ari Paparo (A), with co-host Eric Franchi (C)
Guest: Jim Payne (D), founder of CloudX, Mopub, Max

Overview

This episode features Ari Paparo and Eric Franchi interviewing ad tech luminary Jim Payne. As a serial founder of Mopub (acquired by Twitter) and Max (acquired by AppLovin), Payne returns to discuss his new startup, CloudX. The conversation dives into CloudX’s SDK for mobile app monetization, its “monetization as code” philosophy, AI-powered automation, privacy, partnerships (notably with Meta), and broader reflections on the evolution of mobile and desktop ad tech. The episode is punctuated with revealing industry anecdotes and a fun Jim Payne lightning round.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Introducing Jim Payne and CloudX

• Track Record: Jim is described as a "white whale" guest (04:12), admired for his understated, repeated successes in ad tech.
• CloudX Announcement: Jim reveals CloudX after a year of development secrecy, citing the need to wait until the product, team, financing, and Meta partnership were ready for public discussion (06:25, 07:16).
• CloudX’s Product:
  • CloudX delivers an SDK for app monetization, but with a distinctive “monetization as code” approach and deep AI integration.
  • Partnership with Meta is central to the go-to-market strategy.

2. Monetization as Code and AI Integration

• Concept:
  • “Monetization as code” enables publishers to treat their monetization stack like software, declaratively controlled with files and version control (09:54).
  • “We wanted to provide the ability for people to vibe code their monetization stack,” Payne explains, leveraging LLMs like Claude for configuration.
• Publisher Value:
  • Complex, large publishers (think: many acquired studios, varied tech stacks) can automate granular auction and segmentation logic—something difficult with legacy tools and spreadsheets (11:50, 13:47).
• AI Automation:
  • Unlike the typical “chatbot for workflow tasks,” CloudX jumps straight to AI manipulating code/config for instant changes across tech stacks (14:11).
  • Native SDK integration is automated across iOS/Android/Unity, resolving a huge pain point for app publishers.

“Monetization as code is kind of the core first-class design decision... that unlocks a lot of the workflow optimization and the AI enablement that we're doing.” — Jim Payne, 10:50

3. The Meta Partnership and Secure Auction Design

• Why Partner with Meta?
  • Meta seeks more direct, bilateral relationships with publishers, informed by richer data and better inventory segmentation (08:22).
  • CloudX’s system helps facilitate direct deals, setting granular auction rules and pricing, while strictly controlling data leakage.
• Trusted Execution Environment (TEE):
  • TEE ensures Meta’s privacy concerns are addressed: bids aren’t leaked to publishers or used for future modeling if they lose (17:01, 19:42).
  • CloudX’s auction code is open in a GitHub repo, and each auction produces verifiable tickets.

“If you run an auction on our platform, you get some verification tickets that you can provably... demonstrate to you that it used that code to run that auction.” — Jim Payne, 18:32

4. AI-Enhanced Monetization Use Cases

• Targeting Varied User Segments:
  • Long-term, high-LTV users may merit more premium placements (e.g., exclusive Meta inventory), while churn-prone users are monetized more aggressively (11:50).
  • The complexity of managing granular line items is managed by Claude-assisted automation.
• SDK Complexity:
  • The traditional setup (spreadsheets, manual mapping) is replaced by automated, code-driven processes (15:22).
  • “Any little problem is a lost revenue opportunity.”

5. App vs. Desktop Ad Tech & Lessons

• Desktop Inspiration:
  • Jim credits desktop as an inspiration for innovations brought to mobile (16:32).
• Mobile’s “Expressive Platform”:
  • Mobile’s native capabilities unlock more sophisticated monetization, as demonstrated by AppLovin’s performance model (23:04).
• Industry Trends:
  • Increasing interest from non-mobile (desktop) ad tech companies wanting to port these efficiency and performance models.

“Narrative follows price... now the mobile folks are ascendant because... you see the hundreds of billions in market cap...” — Jim Payne, 23:40

6. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On CloudX’s Philosophy (09:54–10:50)

“Let's make software tools and... a marketplace with liquidity... that can be operated by a tool like Claude. The admin person... who wants to do all these different deals... can have everything in the admin stack be a file that Claude could go into and create line items, targeting, bundles... and you get all of... source code control.”

On Trusted Execution (17:01–19:42)

“What we're doing with that [TEE] is... making a set of guarantees about how the data is used coming into the auction, how the auction actually runs, and what comes out... If you bid and you lose, that bid’s not sitting around on some server that we can go use in a model.”

On Mobile Industry’s Ascent (23:40)

“The narrative follows price... now the mobile folks are ascendant because... you see the hundreds of billions of dollars of market cap... just that one company has created.”

7. Lightning Round: “Jim Payne Legends” (26:10+)

Ari runs through industry myths about Jim:

• The Preakness helicopter story (27:06): True—Jim almost took a helicopter to see his horse run.
• Turning down Google for startups: More nuanced; left Google, joined AdMob, then quickly started Mopub after AdMob was acquired by Google (29:45–31:48).
• Giving Ari equity for doing nothing at Mopub: Confirmed (32:08).
• Helping Mopub employees exercise options: True, loaned money that led to many employees becoming millionaires (33:03).
• Are you in ‘Bringing Down the House’ (MIT blackjack): False, but drew inspiration for card counting as a Microsoft intern (33:26).
• Better angel investment: Mopub or Max? Max, if holding AppLovin stock, could be 120x return (34:13).

“This is what happens when you exit as a founder. Put it on your mood board: the horse chopper.” — Ari Paparo, 29:32

Timestamped Highlighted Segments

• CloudX reveal & vision: 04:09–07:16
• Monetization as Code, AI-powered configuration: 09:54–11:32
• Publisher use cases & workflow automation: 11:32–15:22
• Trusted execution & secure auctions: 16:49–19:42
• Lightning round (Jim Payne legends): 26:10–36:26
• Marketecture Live speaker preview: 02:31–03:46
• Industry news (Pinterest/TVScientific, CTV, Trade Desk): 38:50 onward

Additional Industry News (Post-Interview)

• Pinterest acquires TVScientific:
  • Signals momentum in CTV/performance TV convergence. The hosts see potential in Pinterest leveraging shopping intent data for CTV advertising (40:18–41:42).
• CTV consolidation & big tech:
  • Will big tech (Meta, Google, TikTok, Snap) join CTV? Jim: “It makes obvious sense for them to do it” (43:03).
• Trade Desk DSP competition:
  • Evidence of increased fee competition under pressure from Amazon, Yahoo, Google, and discount strategies by The Trade Desk (47:31–49:09).
• Shopify, Uber, and commerce/retail media innovation:
  • Shopify rolling out a “cross-merchant product network,” with Ari suggesting they’re under-investing given their market position (51:09–52:38).
  • Uber’s new data product and a humorous aside about delivery privacy (53:27–54:43).

Takeaways for Listeners

• CloudX exemplifies the next phase in app monetization: AI-powered, code-controlled, and privacy-respecting—potentially modeled after best practices in software engineering.
• Direct partnerships and trust (ex: with Meta) are increasingly crucial at the intersection of privacy, data access, and platform power.
• Mobile is now the “big brother” in ad tech innovation, with performance models and closed-loop systems outpacing many desktop paradigms.
• Anecdotes illuminate how industry leaders think and operate; Jim Payne’s self-funded, quietly outsized success offers lessons in both tech and personal style.

For volume two? Stay tuned—the CloudX story (and “Jim Payne legends”) sounds like there’s much more to come!