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- [00:00]
Host/Moderator
I want to talk creative productions. I kind of want to go deep on that. But I had a couple, a couple random things from the last couple of weeks on the timeline that I, that I wanted to get your guys's read on. You know, do you guys have a perspective on clipping right now? And actually what I'll tee you up with and Connor, I'll kick it to you because you and I talked about this before your guys super bowl campaign. So it had to have been February of last year. So it was like 18 months ago. And it felt like those were the very early innings of like people were beginning to explore wap. I was beginning to see, see some really creative campaigns of brands engaging with like discords full of clippers to like fully further promote their content. And it feels like we're almost at peak clipping. I think it was in the New York Times recently. Do you guys, have you guys thought any further about exploring it for Ridge or do you have a perspective on like its role in a, in a more traditional DTC business?
- [00:54]
Connor
We, we, I mean we still do it, we're still, we're still leveraging now. It's, we're not doing it all the time. It's not an evergreen tactic of ours, but we are still leveraging. Basically. Meme, you know, we're talking about clipping, which is taking your content and, and trying to enhance the distribution of it through other pages that have great reach. And like, we still engage in that marketing activity. We're, we're about to deploy part of that for our summer sale through these meme pages. So I still think it's an amazing way to get impression arbitrage, but you just have to obviously, like the clipping only works if you have access to the distribution. So you have to have access to these pages, whether on Instagram or tick tock or YouTube or wherever they are. I think Instagram and Tick Tock are probably the most likely places to, to get that distribution. So we're still engaging with an agency that helps that you know, has access to that inventory. And I know Cody, obviously you guys have been activating a lot with creators, which I think is the same, the same approach. It's just like impression Arm. And I, I still think that's a very valid strategy. As much, maybe even more so today as it was, you know, in February when we were talking about this last year in the context of our super bowl campaign where we, you know, we got, I don't remember exactly how much, but probably 50 million impressions purely through that like clipping, meme page play.
- [02:13]
Cody
Was it clipping? Because I saw the meme page stuff like not to be like, you know, a stain about like that. Yeah, stickler about it. But like, like that's obviously trying to get organic distribution and same thing with our socialists. But I wouldn't call it clipping. Like were they actually clipp content?
- [02:27]
Connor
So I would say, I mean, I'm curious how you would define clipping. Basically they were taking a bunch of raw content we had produced. Video format, static ad, static image format. They took all that content and repurposed it into a bunch of memes. So. And then, and then posted it on, on a bunch of their, their pages basically. I don't know if you would consider that clipping or not.
- [02:46]
Cody
If they're thinking, I mean, yeah, for me clipping or I think the definition is taking content longer form any content and then just posting it across different accounts channels. So I'd say it's like kind of is. I think the meme stuff is more of like it's like taking the, the idea of the campaign but you're not actually like clipping like from the content. My. And I, I did see people say this when a few weeks ago this, this discourse was happening. Everyone's like oh like you gotta hire a chief content officer or whatever it is like chief clipping officer, Chief clip. Yeah. But there was another title people are using. But I saw some people say this. Like I think Alex Garcia said it and I agree with like most brands are not creating clippable content in the first place. I think that's where it works so well for you know, a neon or clavicular or somebody like that or even a Spencer Pratt. Right. It's like there's, it's very engaging things that, that people are doing that just like is worthy of getting attention and there's all these moments in it. And I think that's also with, with you know, streaming. I would love to benefit. I think that's clearly how Organic Social works and the distribution and it doesn't matter if you have followers as long as you get the right engagement on your content. So I think it makes a ton of sense and that's why it's similar principle in terms of what we're trying to do on Organic Social. But I just don't know that most brands are creating the style of content they need versus Ramp. Right. Ramp did an amazing job with the stunt they did with Kevin in the office and stuff like that. And that was just like top of funnel just like engaging content that just made like, had just like great moments in it. So I think every brand should be thinking that way. I would love to be thinking that way and doing things like that purely just to get attention. I just don't think most brands have that skillset. What do you think?
- [04:30]
Host/Moderator
I totally agree. Could not agree more that I think a lot of people are jumping to the clipping when you're putting the cart before the horse. And what the horse is in this case is creating clippable content, which, like, very few people are actually good at doing. Um, it, it all comes down to this idea of like, you know, creating content once and then being able to post it multiple times. Right. Like, and, and across all these different accounts. And that's how you get distribution for it. What I actually want us to talk about, I don't know if you guys saw this. Why are a bunch of people on Instagram posting extremely similar walls of text about Mandalorian and Grogu as if it's the greatest movie of all time? And then looking at these, it's just like you see a woman sitting in a car, you see a guy sitting in a movie theater, you see another woman at Disneyland, and then they just have these big blocks of like the native Instagram reel text. Um, some of these might be from TikTok too, but just a big blocks of, of native text and have you guys followed. Well, okay, so the conversation I had recently was with an agency founder who was offering this as a service. And it feels like the, the like just an extrapolation of the clipping trend. Whereas instead of me needing to create clippable content and going to a bunch of different social accounts to repost that content and generate millions of views that way, what this agency owner was able to provide was a ton of AI generated UGC essentially with like very similar formats like this. It's almost like a meme format. It's like B roll ish in the back, some person in some setting and then big block text over the top. And then they were. What they were offering was the ability to post 10,000 times per month. So you've completely like inverted the need for clipping. You don't. You no longer need to create clippable content. You need some sort of like, postable idea. In this case, it's about how good the Mandalorian and Grogu is. That's all you need. You just need a postable idea. And then you. And then you're mass producing that across thousands of profiles. And I feel like this is like the new form of clipping. And I think we're probably six months out, 12 months out from people realizing oh yeah, this is how people are launching movies. This is how people are running like presidential campaigns. This is how I'm trying to think of other. Oh, you know who I see do this? Well and it's not AI generated but it's based. Body Works has like a very natural sort of just like postable sort of idea and then they're creating these like tips in mass about, about you know, best hair care for men or whatever. So I wanted your guys thoughts on. We've talked about clipping. We agree that this is where it's, things are going. This is how people are consuming content online. This feels like the next evolution of it.
- [07:08]
Connor
In this situation though, are they reliant on this? Seems more, more like what I was talking about where they have a bunch of pages they're posting this on or is it all coming from the brand page?
- [07:19]
Host/Moderator
No, it's all coming from, from the individual's pages. So it's almost like it's clipping in the way that it's, it's the, the views are being mass produced. It's like some sort of hybrid of like clipping and product seeding almost. Because you don't need to be seeding product in this case it's just someone posting with this block of text. In the case of the agency that I spoke to, you could create thousands of these posts like overnight with AI generated content and then just spraying it out across a bunch of TikTok accounts that they owned. So it's like some sort of hybrid between clipping and product seeding.
- [07:53]
Cody
It's like, well it's also like so like tech calls it ugc which is where you have creators that are ambassadors, they're not influencers, they're creators and they either do the short form videos, it's you know, the cluey strategy. But like short form videos or slideshows like, like this. I just think this is like mass. But yeah, so it's not, it's all on just these, you know, stood up accounts that will sometimes look like the real people, sometimes they'll look like their brands.
- [08:18]
Host/Moderator
Totally.
- [08:19]
Cody
It's all like organic distribution and it's like, it's a little sad. It's like the most slop version of content ever. It can perform really, really well. But it's so Slop
- [08:32]
Host/Moderator
Motion just dropped their 2026 creative benchmarks report and it's been getting shared everywhere. Slack Channels, LinkedIn Twitter sharing it in our private group chats. And it's great because everybody's been asking the same four questions forever. What is normal? How many ads should we actually be shipping? What is a healthy hit rate? And which formats really win? The report analyzes over 575,000 creatives from 6,000 advertisers and over a billion dollars in ad spend to answer these exact questions. And the report has some really interesting findings, like the fact that only 4 to 8% of ads actually become winners and over half of ads actually lose. And for Motion customers, this report is especially helpful. You can upload it into your Motion dashboard with their runneth AI chat and compare it directly against your vertical benchmarks. Hit the link in the show notes. I promise you won't regret it. And as always, go to motionapp.com and tell the marketing operator sent you. This is like the dead Internet theory at work. At work where like we're going to realize that everything online, everything that we're consuming assuming is just sort of like artificially manufactured. And I just feel like, I don't know, I felt like I started noticing it a couple months ago and I think it's picking up now. And with people's understanding of clipping and like clipping's role in like starting social trends, I think, I think this is sort of next in line to sort of play that role. It's like slightly more at the forefront, in my opinion.
- [09:52]
Cody
Yeah, I wonder if the effectiveness will go down. Like, I still do think it's a good strategy. Like I, I think if you can be a baster, if you can be a tabs or like, you know, who does this really well is like barstool. Like, you know, obviously they're, they're mostly a media company, but they have some commerce too. Like if you can have characters and have like really entertaining content that you can then clip and it's like very on brand for you. Like, I think it's great. Like a lot of, a lot of teams talk about like episodic content now and you know, where it's like that's more on like one main thing. But it's just like having like social movies, right? That would be like more of like a highbrow version of this, but it's more of like a, a less distributed thing. But I just think if you can create content and I'm and, and have it just not be about like just a brand, have it be really engaging and like create characters, then you have the world for clipping. I Just don't think most brands have the world for that. But that stuff that you're sharing, like you don't really need that you just need. That's a little bit more like product features it seems like I'd say more
- [10:49]
Host/Moderator
product features and like I said there's, there's a difference between something being like if, if something is successful in clipping, it's repost worthy. Whereas in this case it's just like you don't even have to be reposting anything. It's just like idea worthy. It's like some thought, oh my God, the new Star wars movie is incredible. It's like I never had to create content that was worthy of being clipped to promote that idea. I just needed 10,000 people to go out and say that on TikTok and like if I do that with enough accounts in like in outlandish of enough way I can generate millions of views. And you're right, it is like it is the sloppiest stuff. It is the future of or it is like dead Internet theory at work but rising marketing tactic trend that Wanted to talk about it?
- [11:33]
Cody
Yeah, we, I will say for our organic social stuff where we have creators like posting like we have had some videos that have millions of views, like 6, 7 million views and like did absolutely nothing for us because it didn't have the product integration or the brand integration. And then obviously if you go to product you have nothing. So like I think yeah, it kind of depends how it's done. But I've seen like I'll get some of the slideshows on TikTok and like some of them will even get me and it's like oh like I thought that was just one at first but it's like, you know, it'll just be like a big problem, super dramatic problem like you know, with the native text and then the third slide will be like check out this app. You know if you're struggling with this so it can totally work and crush. I think for some reason tech is way more forward on it of all of these strategies and I think there it's just getting a little into ddc. But I, I haven't I besides like based and stuff. Have you guys seen any DTC brands like actually leverage these like UGC programs or clipping like successfully?
- [12:29]
Host/Moderator
I don't have any off the top of my head but what I will say is like I love your point that you guys have seen views that because the product's not integrated enough, it can drive or you've Seen posts and because the product's not integrated enough, it can, it can drive 6,7 million views and do nothing for the brand. That makes total sense. And you go on the other side where if it's someone just like unboxing it, nobody cares at all. And like you might be generating intent but you're only getting a couple hundred views on an organic video. The sweet spot is like tabs, chocolate, you know, mini katana swords. The, the brands that have products and have an angle where the content is engaging enough while being product oriented enough are like an example of, of that. It's just being a lot more harmonious in terms of like getting organic distribution while generating intent.
- [13:14]
Cody
For sure. For sure. I agree. I think one, yeah, I think one way to do that and again it turns girls is like characters like I, I think you can like have to do like more of like recurring storylines. I think like character development is actually a really good one but it's, it's a little bit less of like a. Well, I guess it can be right if you think about these characters in streaming or clavicular like and then you have all the, the, the different accounts that reach people. So I think that's what I would try to do if I were a brand, like trying to do this.
- [13:40]
Connor
Well, so I wanted to ask you about that, Cody. So you're basically saying like if a brand, a brand's going to create like some sort of fictitious episodic series, let's call it, and it's, it's fixed, it's fictitious, but probably ties into the brand and the product in some way. And then you're saying all right, now you're launching these like 10 minute YouTube episodes maybe every week the same way that like HBO will launch a new episode every week. And then you're saying that becomes the super clippable. Now you can take those 10 minute episodes and now you're cutting probably Hundreds of like 6 second cuts, 10 second cuts from that. Posting that in all of the short form vertical video spaces across all the different channels, creator pages, other pages you're making like that's what you think is the. Could be a good playbook here.
- [14:23]
Cody
I think if the brand has the right DNA which is like knows how to create content that people want to consume. You know, like, like right. If it's like a right it might have to be like a content commerce play but like a barstool or something like that where if you can, if you can get like a 10 minute video that like is going to get a Lot of views on YouTube or like something that's not just like, oh, here's buy my product. I think that's where it would have to be. And I think that's such an art, is trying to weave in, you know, is content and actually making it still relevant to like what you're. It's such an art. And there's like so few people that are. That are good at doing that.
- [14:55]
Connor
I, I'm always like, when I see those carousels that you talked about, because those are the ones that I'm the most familiar about, where these people post these carousels. And then on like slide four, it's like, and check out this product. There's no way that can work. I mean, you're burying the product in the fourth carousel and the entire piece of content isn't leading into that product. I just don't. I find it really hard to believe that that actually moves the needle on, on sales.
- [15:18]
Cody
I haven't seen that. I don't know that. But I have seen tech companies, apps, I've seen some of their numbers and videos. I can show you some of the videos where it's like, you know, it'll be kind of like clickbaity, like just very like TikTok forward video. It's like, I can't. Like somebody's getting fired. They leaked this app or something like that, you know, And I've seen some of the numbers and like when some of these videos, if they're done right and have the right integration, they can drive a ton of downloads.
- [15:45]
Connor
Okay, interesting.
- [15:46]
Cody
I have seen some of them. They're. Yeah, yeah. So some of them can. I think if they're done correctly, I think it's first, it's like, how do you get views with these strategies? How do you like, get engagement distribution? How do you get views? And then how do you kind of make sure you're doing it in a way where there's product integration and you're getting the right bottom funnel, you know, action that you want.
- [16:06]
Host/Moderator
Okay, the, the last thing I wanted to hit on this one because I thought it was really interesting and I've. Because I've seen it twice now. There's some sort of AI software company called Polya P O L S I A dot com and I think, I don't know if they named the company purposefully this way, but a lot of their distribution strategy seems to be like, when they make announcements, Pulsia, maybe they raised a round or something. I forget exactly why it was in the news. Pulsia raises 10 million. Then they just have a bunch of people quote tweet it. This all feels artificial to me. There's totally the scenario where these are like organic comments, but the quote tweets are all, oh my God. They named their company AI Slot backwards because that's what it is. And I feel like that is a. That's sort of like a memetic growth strategy where they're like, there's something inherently memeable about everything that we do. If our name is AI Slot Backwards and it's just like, it's just an always on hack that allows them to generate like millions of impressions for anything they want to talk about. I've seen it go viral like two or three times at this point.
- [17:02]
Cody
I was just seeing, I. This is very meta. I was seeing a Gary V clip. He was on some guy's pod, but they were talking about, you know, chief Chief Attention Officer, right? And Gary's like, that really should just be the cmo. It's like what cmos used to. I think that I'm not good at this. I don't think Jones Rhoda is good at this. So it's not coming from that. But like, I think more brands should think about just how they get attention. And I think the, the great brand like that, David is great at that. We opened the podcast where I was like, hey, did you see this thing they did? Like, I don't really know outside of product. Like, I don't have that much to be able to say, hey, did you see this thing? Jones wrote it. You know, besides, here's this new product launch and I think every brand should be having something where it's. Did you see this thing that they did? You know, and it's something to just talk about that's. It's. Hopefully it's related to the brand.
- [17:44]
Connor
It's.
- [17:45]
Cody
It's something where it's. There's still something like value prop in, but it's obviously not like a bottom funnel thing. We talk about incrementality a lot, but how do you actually operationalize it to make your business better? That is one thing that I've been really leaning in with my team recently. And House has played a tremendous role. We use it for all of our experiments, all of our geolift testing, but we now use it for our MMM as well. I've been a design partner. I've been one of the early design partners on House's cmm. C stands for causal. So it's one of the only MMMs, if not the only MMM that I've seen that's actually using your causal experiments to build the model. And so that allows me to trust the data so much more. So it's not a black box, but actually informs our roadmap and has been so crucial for allowing us to operationalize around incrementality. The house team is world class. I can't speak highly enough about them. They've also built a really amazing community with some of the best DTC growth operators out there. They have a few exciting events coming up soon that they call the Houzz Growth Lab. One is in LA on May 19th and the other is in New York on May 21st. I highly recommend checking it out if you're in the area, if you want to check it out, learn a little bit more about cmm. Go to house IO operators to start making better data driven decisions today.
- [18:52]
Host/Moderator
All right, sweet. You guys want to pivot into talking about creative productions?
- [18:55]
Connor
Let's do it.
- [18:56]
Host/Moderator
All right, so I'll tee us up here and then Cody, you would send some notes on like the different types of creative productions that you guys do at Ridge. We're like all across the board right now where we're producing like UGC all the time. We're doing like these, you know, let's call them like 10 grand lifestyle shoots for like new launches. And we just did last week, our first. It'll be all in like almost a half a million dollar production with the celebrity talent fees and things like that. Where I'm thinking about, oh, we did a founder video shoot like a couple of weeks before that. So we've been all across the spectrum. I was hoping we just like jam through like what are the other ways that each of us are producing content and if we have any like learnings or ideas or tactics are going to be repurposing in the future. So Cody, I think from what I got from your text, you guys do it a bit differently than Ridge. So maybe you could just walk through how you guys are producing content at jrb.
- [19:48]
Cody
So we do, I would say like the primary thing we do, we'll call it our photo shoots, brand shoots. So this is, you know, we have product launches pretty much every month, every, you know, other month, big one. So we shoot probably every other month, sometimes once a quarter, usually for two days. So these are our biggest ones. Fortunately we have a studio. We own our own studio. We have a lot of the equipment. I would say mostly us. We have a freelance photographer who we use. So they started just as photo like beginning of the brand as photo. And then now it's like, all right, let's just have a camera rolling at all times, right. I think part of the principle of this is just like it's just leverage. It's just like how do you get as much content as possible out of all of these things? So the primary use of this is just our general brand assets, which means E Comm, print, you know, you know, retail press, like really anything that you, you know, potentially need. But there's also tons of B roll for ads. So now we get a before after of every person. You know, we have multiple, so we have, you know, multiple cameras that's just running on this one main set where people are doing their before afters. We get, you know, there's, there's definitely a lot of skill in trying to be as efficient as possible with how many people you can get through that. You know, how many like for us is how many looks you can get on them. But then also if you got four models there for the day, what are, you know, what are you doing with the other people in the meantime? So we'll have a second set that's set up that's another seamless. But it's more of like, you know, we'll have them apply on themselves kind of so we can use it for B roll for ad, social, whatever you
- [21:23]
Connor
need it to be.
- [21:25]
Cody
We'll often take them around in a car ride or just on a walk and get some like, more like iPhone UGC, you know, so somebody will like hopefully there's like always productivity that's happening. I think you should always have people shooting iPhone one to two people, like more of a social style and like do more of like a behind the scenes narrative if you can kind of, you know, do that. So those are like our primary ones and like tons of content that's a little bit more of your brand forward. That's anything you'll see on website and stuff like that.
- [21:54]
Host/Moderator
When you get to preparing for the like you said buy bi weekly shoots, you get the studio. I love.
- [22:00]
Cody
So like every other month probably.
- [22:02]
Host/Moderator
Oh, every other month? Yeah. Okay, two days every other month. I love the point around you always have a camera rolling. Are you like, what is the planning going into that? Are you working with your organic team and your retention team and your paid team to be like oh hey we would like these clips or like what is the prep work that goes into making the most of that two day period?
- [22:21]
Cody
So a lot of these are product launch related and so for every launch and we're Trying to do a much better job. And I think we are doing a much better job of this. We have, like, our main. We call it an initial brief, but we have, like, all right, here's our big idea for this campaign, right? This concealer campaign is focused on comfort, right? Here's how we need to show it. So we're trying to be much more strategic with, like, here's the insights from, you know, what's on the market, stuff like that. Here's how we're going to position this product, and then our creative director and copywriter will pitch that to us, to, you know, leadership. And about, like, this is where I think we should take this campaign. And then obviously, that'll feed into the creative direction, the props we need the styling. Like, we're trying to go bigger and do a bigger job of that. And then some of it is, you know, it'll depend on what we need to do and if we have multiple shoots. Because, yes, we always need our E Comm stuff on a white, seamless and stuff like that. But also, like, we're launching a product in the summer that's talking about a vacation glow. Like, you can't shoot that in a, you know, inside. Like, we then went and we did an accessory shoot. Right. These first shoots are 50k plus per day.
- [23:28]
Connor
Right.
- [23:28]
Cody
And that's like, doing it pretty efficiently. But then we did a, you know, 10K shoot out in the Hamptons, you know, where we, you know, did it at the beach and, you know, a little bit more of, like, a lifestyle shoot that's a little more on the go. But, yeah. So once our creative director has the vision and does all the props, stuff like that, it'll go to all the channel leads. So E Com, paid, social retention, whatever, will weigh in and be like, this is what I think I need for this. In the past, we didn't really do a great job of that, and then they would just try to use whatever assets we had. But now we're trying to do a better job of it being like, all right, cool. This product, I know we're going to need a quiz for. So I need every model shot before or after or something like that. It's a hard thing to do, and it's a ton of. It's a ton of process to get right, and it's never quite perfect, but we're always trying to get it better.
- [24:13]
Host/Moderator
So our equivalent of that type of, like, that level of shoot, there's a lot of prep work. It's happening once a month, every other month. Et cetera, trying to maximize the value there. One of the things that we started doing, which is like, I should have done long ago, but basically we've set this rule. Like, we do a lot of these, like, lifestyle shoots.
- [24:31]
Cody
Right.
- [24:31]
Host/Moderator
So we're just about to launch this one called Jungle Ops. These two camo patterns. We were out in Utah and we filmed with like this motocross rider. So, like, we got this awesome sort of lifestyle video out of it. A bunch of photos, a bunch of B roll of the products, like in this environment. But one of the things that we've like rolled into essentially the shot list for these, these types of shoots, is to just always get if there's any sort of talent, we want him speaking to camera about the product. Because that was always something where it's like you get this awesome lifestyle video back that can become like a lot of very cool little touch points across the website or across certain parts of the ad. But, like, there's no, hey, this is Jungle Ops. It's brand new from Ridge. It's RFID blocking. Like, you can buy Ridge.com. so we've just like layered in, like, if we have a camera rolling with any sort of talent, we need a very simple ad read from this person. And we've rolled that in and just. That takes 10 minutes, 15 minutes to like set up the shot. Audio doesn't have to be perfect. It's not even rolled into like the main lifestyle video deliverable. So, like, the quality of it isn't. We don't have the same expectations. It's mostly going to be 4 by fives and 9 by 16 cuts. Like just that piece alone. We've like layered into all these shoots now and pretty frequently we find that leading to winning ads. So I like this idea of just like finding additional small deliverables that you can, you know, bolt on to, you know, productions you're already running.
- [25:52]
Cody
Yeah. And the more you can think about that ahead of time, like, it's. That's so key. Were otherwise going into it and being like, oh, what? What do we have? Let me try to make this asset work. Like, the more you could do that and then like produce it. Like, we. We just did an additional shoot. It was one of our big shoot days. It was actually an open casting. So we had 30 people from the public come in and we brought in a video agency and we just did as much as we could that day. It would have been like 75k more to have them shoot on two days. So I was like, let's Just make it work on one day. Um, and part of it is they did such a great job because they, they knew exactly what all of the deliverables were planned to be. We had obviously, like the scope with them and so they could kind of like reverse engineer and be like, this is how we need to break up the day. This is how like the interviews we need to get. This is a B roll we need to get. So they were able to like, see the vision and do it. And I think if you can do that, you can, you can then just be so much more effective on that day.
- [26:44]
Connor
I think you're right though, Cody. Like, it is, it is hard to get right. I think we've all probably been in the situation where you have this like big 8 hour shoot day and then you get to the end of it and you're like, oh crap. Like, we got all these things, but there's these, these two other things that, that we didn't get and we wish we would have got that and that would have been really valuable. And I think you just. It's very much like an, like a never ending iterative process. Like I think about where we were three years ago to where we were today. And like, we are, we're way more templated in like how we do our, our new product shoots, for example, but we're always peppering in more stuff. And I, I fully agree. Like, the further, like, like we just signed this new culinary council member, which is what our like upper echelon tier of brand ambassadors are that, you know, it's our Michelin star chefs. And you know, in, in the past we've done good job of shooting content with these people, but now that we have this playbook, like, all right, the, the date is September 1st and we're already starting that pre planning. So like we already have and we know we get a full day. We know we want to shoot ecom images. We know we want to shoot ads with him, hi fi ads and socially native ads. We know we want to shoot like recipe content with him. We know all the placements. So our ability to plan for this new person shoot sitting here on, you know, May 27 is so much better than it was, you know, shooting for this like Nancy Silverton shoot that we shot, you know, last year that we, you know, took two months to plan for. And we got a lot of good, great content. But it's, it's just so iterative and like, you get better and better over time.
- [28:06]
Host/Moderator
Connor on your team, who owns the planning of that Production. And then like, I'd be curious, how do they interface with the rest of the teams to like gather all the stuff that, that you guys ultimately want delivered?
- [28:16]
Connor
The way that we've set up our content production team, so like our, our marketing team is basically split between content and growth. So you know, basically our content production team services the entire organization. It's almost like an internal agency. And if you're a creative ic, even if you're serving retention, you interface a lot with the retention team, of course, but you actually report into the creative team and that's worked really well for us. So we have a production manager who owns all things planning. So you know, she, her name's Crystal. She's amazing. She's doing all things pre production. And then also the person on set during, during the day of, that's like making sure we hit all the things and then we just have a bi weekly production sync that's always on. We rarely skip it. And she is owning that meeting and just talking about everything that's upcoming. So it's like, hey, if we have a shoot in two weeks, we've done a ton of planning for that and, and we're reviewing what that shot list is and making sure we're not missing anything. So you know, the classic one is new product. Like we're always shooting E Com shots, we're always shooting lifestyle shots. We're always shooting like a product hype reel to be used in paid and organic. We're shooting a bunch of recipe content. Those are like the four pillars of any new product. She'll review that and make sure nothing's getting missed. And then we're also reviewing stuff in that meeting that's way out, right? Like, hey, here's the, the new culinary council member shoot. Here's what we currently have on the list. Like, what else do we want? Oh, we need, we want three different ads for these three products. Okay, great. Now we're setting deadlines around when the creative team needs to have those briefs ready. So that way Crystal can go and say, all right, we have an eight hour shoot. We have, you know, four hours worth of stuff already planned. I know the paid team wants three YouTube ads that then they'll cut into a bunch of paid social ads for Meta and TikTok and Instagram. Okay, that's another two hours. And, and like that's our process. And then over time we've kind of created this like, you know, back what I was just saying, we have these things that we always do for like a new product. Shoot or a, you know, we do a lot of campaign shoots now where like our team was just out in the desert somewhere shooting our summer campaign stuff. So we kind of have that template that we're just like adding to over and over again. But she is the point person driving all that forward and making sure that she's getting all the requirements from every team. And I think that has been maybe the biggest unlock is like you have to have someone owning that. Like you have to have a true owner of the shoot. Because if you don't have anyone, that's if it's just kind of by committee where like your paid team and your organic social team and your ecom team are all contributing but no single person is driving it. Like things get lost. And I think having having someone like Crystal is such an unlock because when we go and say, hey, we want to shoot three ads with this person on this shoot day, we know it's going to happen as long as we get her all the, all the briefs and the scripts and all the all the things.
- [31:05]
Host/Moderator
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- [33:12]
Connor
I've, I've been so impressed like this. I think the unlock is you gotta look outside of E Com and like direct to consumer product brands to find this talent. Like this person I'm referencing on our team who's our creative producer, she comes from a traditional media background and when you look at the documents, the pre planning documents, they are so specific in terms of scheduling and then when you're actually on set in one of these more, more involved shoots, there is so much going on. Like there's 15 people there, there's different things being worked on. Like it's very organized and it is a very different skill set than you know, performance marketing or like even producing like just ads with like an editor or just like production is just such a different world than like oh, we now have the content and we need to brief in the content and get utilization and get E Comm shots edited and ads edited. It's just, I think that's been our unlock is marrying traditional media backgrounds to really own this part. With our marketing team and we've created, there's still tons of like we're talking about how to, you know, we had a big meeting on Friday on like where are the holes in our new product go to market process because we still feel like there's a lot of areas to improve. But I am always blown away when I am in LA and they're shooting like I always try to get out there and see those because they're really fun to watch. It's just such an orchestration of people and deliverables and a tight schedule. It's Just really cool to see.
- [34:36]
Host/Moderator
Yeah. And it's just like, it's such an extremely high leverage position that like, like I said, like, I don't think Ridge has historically done it very well and we're spending way more time on it. But you can be getting like multiples more. It's not even. You can be getting 20% more out of a shoot. Like you can be getting 300, 400% more out of a shoot with just like better pre planning, better understanding deliverables, understanding how to execute that in a certain day. So Cody, we talked a bit about the larger production shoots and like sort of maximizing the value from those. Are there any other types of productions you guys are consistently doing at.
- [35:09]
Connor
At.
- [35:09]
Host/Moderator
At Jones Road?
- [35:10]
Cody
Yeah. So I'd say we haven't been doing them as often, but I would say we'd have more of like a, just like a video ad shoot. And so this would be. We probably have various ones and so this would be the biggest one would be like TV shoot that like, I don't know how often you guys shoot tv, but like it's probably not more than annual unless we have like a, A net new product. But again trying to have it be not just a tv but. And then it's more of a, you know, paid social ad. Shoe founder. Right. This would be like a founder one with Bobby. We don't do it as often anymore, but in the past it was, you know, every other month and we just batched a ton and these would be like a six hour, you know, whatever combo of we've gone back and forth in terms of what we've done internally, what we've done, agencies, you know, it kind of just depends on the needs. I would say we primarily have it internal. We'll just bring in like one person, like a freelance producer sometimes or something like that to do it. But now we're at the point where we don't necessarily need to do that. So that would be another one. Right. We don't really do like internal shoots with like audio ADD ones. I'd love to be able to do that, but it's really all just gone like creator led now at the point. But I still think for creative diversity it'd be great to be able to like, you know, shoot with, with talent and, and, and actors and creators internally. So we have those ATT shoots and then there's you know, B roll shoots. So we have one person on our team, she's like a producer, photographer as well. And so she does a lot of, you know, of our photography we have a more of like a high end photographer that we work with like you know, that will send it like that'll be like our real e comm stuff but it's more the accessory stuff. Email, social media combo of nice camera and iPhone. She can kind of get briefed in from the team. So she's probably shooting two to three days a week just in the, in the studio. Like every time I walk over she's doing that and then social. So we just have like a new social manager. But like really there's, there's content every day that's, that's happening. She's you know, going, going on herself. She's bringing other people into it. Kind of like wanted a social manager who's also a creator, you know, and we're just going live and, and we're using a lot of that stuff for, for you know, paid social as well. So those are like I would say all of the different components we have. And then I mentioned like the lifestyle shoot. So like we needed to supplement this, this brand shoot with some outdoor stuff. So you know, we, we took a model or two that's you know, more of like a friend of the brand. We took one employee and, and did like just a small, you know, one, one day thing outside at the beach for, for a lot of our campaign imagery.
- [37:45]
Host/Moderator
So going back quickly to the video shoot, when you're shooting with Bobby, these happen pretty frequently. They become things like TV commercials. Who's doing the scripting?
- [37:53]
Cody
In the past it was me. It depends. Again we go back and forth. Like the last shoot we did, we brought in, you know, an agency and so they, they did it. We don't have anybody internally that you know, we don't have like a video director of video we, we did in the past and it just to your point about not understanding the speed and velocity, like it's very, very hard to get somebody who understands all the worlds and gets the production standards, things like that, but also gets like the social needs, gets paid social. So we don't currently have anybody and so we'll just, we'll bring in but I'll usually get a little bit more involved just because those don't happen that often. And obviously with being Bobby's son, I know her very well and what she's comfortable saying and things like that I'd almost love.
- [38:37]
Host/Moderator
We did a founder shoot so Bridges founded by a father son team, Daniel and Paul Kane. We got them together and ended up being a good shoot. And I, we structured it more like an interview, which I thought was interesting. It was also really important for me to be there. I've been at ridge for almost 10 years. I'm like, I know all the little sound bites that I want to get from these guys, you know, And I wish, I mean, obviously you're never going to replace that. Like the people who have known the founders for, you know, their entire lives in the way that you have Cody, like, you guys will have like very unique insight into what can get done. But I almost wish there was like, I wish there was a production agency that specified specifically in founder ads and like did like a pre shoot interview and figured out what are like the emotional. What's the backstory here? What are the emotional ties? What heartstrings do I want to be pulling at in this production? Because I just feel like it feels like everybody's running founder ads at this point. I mean, Danny's in ads, right? Connor. So is Gordon, who like, I think a lot of people see as like the founder of Hexclad. And I just feel like we've still got to tighten the bolts on like how we even produce around that idea.
- [39:48]
Connor
I think at least at hexcloud, our what we. At least with Gordon, I mean, if it's the, if it's Danny and it's founder ads, I mean, our creative strategy team is writing in those briefs. We also have a separate Organic Social series going on right now with Danny where he's just like very yappy style, reviewing new products in our Organic Social team brief set in. But where we found success for our higher production stuff is we are actually, like Cody said, we're hiring outside people to help creative concept that like the one that we did with Yuki and Gordon, we hired someone that we had worked with in the past that had some involvement with the super bowl campaign. So we had some familiarity with the brand and Gordon and just our TV commercials in general because of that. And then he helped create the concept. But our, I think the, the balance is that our head of content is so good at this as well. You know, he's not the one coming up with all of it, but he's super involved. Like they're working together the entire time. He's beating it up, he's giving feedback along the way versus we're not just saying, hey, you know, we're doing a commercial with Yuki and Gordon and go, go write something and like we're showing up in two weeks and it's, it's done. It's very collaborative and I think that's been, been the right balance for us because yeah, I don't, I don't think it makes sense to have that, that talent in house when you know, we're probably producing, we're probably doing like two full on like linear TV level productions per year. So you're not going to, and like those have to hit so you're not going to have that person in house. But you also probably have to go and, and you know, outsource to someone that's really good at that.
- [41:18]
Cody
This has been I think the most challenging thing. Like there's so many creative agencies for me. There's. You get your video, your traditional video production agencies, right? And there's some really good ones and then you have your, you know, direct response to UGC agencies. There are so few people who I believe at least that I have found who get production can shoot on real cameras and get like real world paid social hooks, things like that. So if there was like total white space, I think like huge value for it. But I just haven't personally found that many people or agencies who really get that and do a great, a great job of that.
- [41:58]
Host/Moderator
And that's what I'm getting at. And that's where I'm like, oh yeah, does that sort of guidance need to be coming from the brand side where we're showing up to with the like you know, best in class production companies and like we have a better set of structured deliverables and we've scripted it in a way that's going to be modular so that we can do the like 12 cuts, the 15 cuts that we need to after the fact because yeah, I am absolutely with you Cody, that there's like, it feels like there's this big in between, this big like chasm that's yet to be crossed between digital deliverables and like the ability to produce them.
- [42:30]
Cody
I agree and I'm, I'm pro freelancer for this area instead of, hey, I want them to get social but more like I want like the younger people and it's like we can kind of fit them in. We could be like, hey, we have these aspects. We don't have this like we're going to drive the show a little bit more from the scripting and production. Like we need you to produce that. That, that is different than if you work with some of these bigger agencies. They're going to be like no, we're handling this end to end or you know, like you can approve stuff. So that's where I'm, I'm Pro freelancers where you don't need somebody full time on payroll. But I think getting what I've been trying to do actually lately is just build that Rolodex. Even when we don't need. It's just so that when we do have a need, you could just go to this person and be like, hey, hey, let's do this project together.
- [43:10]
Host/Moderator
You know, I thought one of the production companies we shot with over the last few weeks does all of the productions for maximum effort. Ryan Reynolds, like, I don't know what they're considered a creative agency, but like, it's a good example of. It's different than what we're describing. But I think it's a good parallel because they are decoupled from the production itself. When you're going to maximum effort and you're working with Ryan Reynolds, you're really paying for like the idea and the scripting. Then they are like subcontracting out the actual production of that. The people bringing in the cameras and renting the studio and like editing the video is like, that is subcontracted out. And I think that's a. That's a really strategic decoupling. Now you're paying a ton of money to maximum effort for. For them producing spots for you. But what we're asking for here is almost like another layer in between the production company that rather than being great scripting and great concepting, is more like, hey, we are going to maximize this day shoot and make sure that you're getting the like 25 deliverables that you really want and you're going to get 400% more from this day than you otherwise would. And that is something like, I think. I don't think there's anybody who's doing that right now. And I think it's something that we are spending a lot of time getting better at at Ridge.
- [44:22]
Cody
Yeah, like, obviously you guys know Josh, who's got the street interviews. That's like a great niche one. One of his friends. I don't know if you know, I think his name is Matt Epstein. He does like tech launch videos and that's like his niche and I think he crushes that. Like, yeah, there just should be somebody that same thing. Like, it's not even a crazy camera. It's like a Sony. Like you don't need like a red camera or like tv. It's just like you just need a camera and you just need to understand hooks and social and how to tell good stories. But in a way that's like for paid Social could could be a fantastic agency. Marketing operators I want to challenge how you think about post purchase. If you zoom out, Post purchase isn't a tactic, it's a system. It's your cart, your checkout logic, your one click upsells how you increase AOV revenue per session, profit per session. It's your confirmation page. It's all of that system together. The entire flow determines how much incremental revenue that you can make per order. That's why ROKT After Sell isn't just an upsell tool. It's a design system for the full post purchase experience. ROKT After Sale gives you one unified system, a smart cart and checkout offers. One click Post purchase upsells and thank you page Monetization with ROKT thanks. And here's where it becomes very strategic. Beyond the 30% revenue per visitor, Lift Rocked After Sell opens a monetization layer that most operators haven't fully priced into their unit Economics With Rock Network products run the math on your own volume. At 50k orders a month, that's 15 to 25k in pure profit. With rock thanks at 100k it's 30 to 50k. I'm not great at math, but I love those numbers straight to the bottom line as well. Every month from a page your customer is already landing on won't affect conversion rate, just free money you can pocket at the end of the month. No inventory, no operational lift, no contracts lock you in. And this is not just for Shopify native brands anymore. Whatever platform you're on, Rock After Sales supports it. Operators listeners can activate ROKT thanks and get the full after sales suite for a year or grab an extended 60 day trial. To test post purchase performance go to aftercell.com operators build the system once and
- [46:12]
Host/Moderator
let it compound or my point is like they don't even need to shoot the content. At the end of the day I'd be more than happy to just bring someone in and help me interface. Now with this production company who's going to do all the big like May. I don't want to compromise on the quality of the video so I need the like I need people who have shot Hollywood movies before but I need the like strategic lens of somebody who's very familiar with digital. That's who, that's what I'm looking for.
- [46:34]
Connor
I think, I think over time too because when, when like we like we have this production team that doesn't come from that like doctor selling products online background but over the last, you know, we more or less have the Same team for the last three years. And, and they've just gotten, you know, the, the paid media creative strategist have just spent so much time with that production. When we go and brief a shoot with any creator or influencer, they know how to execute that in a, in a very like paid, social way. They know that they know, know how to shoot it. I mean they have like all the safe zones grids right up on their camera. So they've gotten just, it's just this iterative process. And now I think that's become one of our moats is we work with a lot of chefs that have a lot of respect. So when we produce ads with them, people trust them, but they're not creators. So I'm not, we're not going to send them a brief and say, hey, shoot this on your own time. But now that's become a moat for us because we can bring them into our studio, brief out really good ad scripts and our production team knows how to execute it in a very paid, social, friendly way. And now we're shooting amazing ads with these people that like otherwise wouldn't have been able to shoot it on their own time. And we're getting just incredible ads from people that have a ton of trust in the space. But if that's been, you know, a three year overnight story. Right. You know, if you were to go back to when these teams just started together, we messed up all the time and we just, we wouldn't have been able to execute the way that I think we'll be able to execute on this new brand ambassador three years ago.
- [47:56]
Host/Moderator
Keeping the team internal, getting the reps in, you're ultimately going to develop the best practices over time. And it just feels like someone should bucket up all those best practices and offer it as a service. The. You know, one other point I had here just like just on some more like ideating on how to get the most out of shoots. This was our sweepstakes shoot last year. We were out also in Utah, like rural Utah. We rented this big like dirt racing track and the cars were just like filthy. And I spent like not long, like 20 minutes where I, I'd like wrote into the dirt on the car, you know, get 4x entries now, sweepstakes ending soon. Just like a couple random like little phrases and then like iPhone footage of like zooming into it. It's. And what it ended up being was like the equivalent of like a sticky note ad, but like native to this where like someone's just gotta like sit there and read what's written and we ended up getting, you know, 100k, 100k of spend behind that ad. So it's like even I think there's a lot of examples. So we're going into it this year and it's like we took that as a learning of like, hey, let's get some of our key messaging written in unique ways throughout this video shoot so that we can use this as B roll and as like very just short, short videos and like almost gif like format. And that's just like, that's another thing. Like it's a whole different type of content that we'd never even considered creating had we not like just roughly experimented with it last year and seen some success.
- [49:19]
Cody
It is funny though, because the easiest way to underwrite any program that's related to content is to put ad spend behind it, right? If we're talking about like TikTok shop or talking about like Organic Social or even like Influencer, it's like, it's all just like almost a loss leader for ad content.
- [49:35]
Host/Moderator
1,000%. Yeah. Yeah. I mean that's like, that is how I think the feedback goes both ways a little bit where it's like, okay, well what got ad spend? Let's take those learnings and let's try to produce more of that content moving forward. And then I also think, you know, when we're talking about TV commercials and things like big splash year campaigns, we do some like lifestyle video stuff. And I, I spoke about this earlier this year. We did a big Hawaii shoot last year that was like not doctor in any way. I'm gonna, I'm gonna. This is gonna be a mixed message here, but like then we measured the incremental impact of having that within our, our campaign ads and we saw that it was driving lift. So it was like this was a, this is a piece of content that I would have never expected to really justify ad spend on like any sort of attributable or like BAU basis. But we produced it nonetheless. We thought it was great content and then we found a path to like getting it distribution that was incremental to the business. So I think it's like, it's an ebb and flow between the like brand and performance stuff.
- [50:35]
Cody
Yeah, for sure. No, it's just funny because like we've talked about it with TikTok shop stuff and like that's really the value getting a creative. And then you know, you're talking about like doing the shoot and how much you're able to spend behind it. It's like, it's just such an easy way to justify some of the cost of some of this, some of this creative. If, if you can do it.
- [50:50]
Connor
You hit on something though, Connor, that I think it's like a simple thing that can make you get way more paid media value out of these shoots. Like we have intentionally tried to hire our creative strategist in la because every shoot we have a creative strategist there on set because they're going to see stuff that other folks don't see. They're going to have ideas randomly pop up and some of those things turned into the. To your point, like you just were on set and had the idea of writing that in the dirt. Like just have a creative strategist there. If you have one of your creative strategists who lives and breathes paid media and they know what's working in the account and what's not working in the account, they're going to have those ideas on set. They're going to have those like both from like a visuals and just a voiceover, like text or. Yeah, like a VO hook. And I would be shocked if you don't get way more footage that you're gonna put paid spend behind just by having that person on set paying attention and being able to chime in and say, oh well, what about, could you just get this, this line too? And can you just get this visual as well? And like a lot of those things, I don't care how well you plan, you're never gonna, you're always gonna have ideas on set. Like it's just always gonna be the case. Like some of our best hooks have been that way where it's like, oh, what if she like sliced through the watermelon with the knife and like that didn't show up in the pre production planning. But then all of a sudden you're like, wow, that's the, the ad that we put the most spend behind. So you just gotta have, you gotta be nimble and don't expect to have everything planned and just have the people on set that can come up with those good in real time ideas.
- [52:14]
Host/Moderator
Any other creative production learnings or tactics you guys think we should touch on?
- [52:21]
Connor
What's your. I'm curious. Like we, we added a studio five minutes from our office and now we shoot in there. I mean sometimes every day depending on what's going on, you know, three, four times a week. What's your, how do I want to say it? Not resourcing but like what are, what are the spaces that you guys have at your disposal to shoot because now we're five minutes away. So if we have an idea on a Friday, we can meet with our product, our creative producer on Monday and say, hey, when could we shoot this idea? She can go look at the schedule and say we can shoot this in next week, Wednesday. And like we're able, you know, Cody, we talked about like how quickly can you go from idea to launched an ad account? So it's like how I, how quick can you go from idea to production to edited to ad account? So just more of an extended timeline. But having that, that office or that, that studio rather five minutes from our office is such an unlock in the content we're able to produce. So what are, what are your guys, what's your turnaround?
- [53:18]
Cody
What's, what's, what's your turnaround for? If you need something, I mean, we
- [53:21]
Connor
can usually shoot it within two weeks. I mean again, it depends on the calendar. If we have like a bunch of products and campaigns coming up in an influencer shoot. Yeah, maybe it's a little busier schedule, but often these ideas aren't full shoot days. It's like, hey, we need like these clips and that's it. So it's like, can we. A lot of, a lot of times it turns into hey, can we grab an hour from the shoot day where you're doing something else? And we can usually turn those things around pretty darn quickly. And that's also why we have the bi weekly meeting because we can then prioritize based on importance. So it's like, hey, idea Monday. We shot it the following Monday. But we would never be able to do that if we didn't have a studio. And for the longest time we didn't have a studio and these ideas did not come to life as quickly. So what, what's your availability as far as like studios and being able to go and shoot somewhere? I know. Connor, you're remote. Cody, you're in person so that I'm sure there's some, some nuance there.
- [54:11]
Cody
So we have, we have a studio literally right across the street and we're, we're building it out right now. So it still is taking longer than I want it to, but theoretically we have it. Part of it is getting set up right with like, with like you know, one click setup and so you don't have to move lights and stuff like that. So we're trying to build like a few different sets that we think would work for, for all of our needs, whether it's you know, creator content, TikTok, shop content, things like that, produce content, you know, B roll. So part of it is just getting it set up. But it should, I would like it, you know, I think for creator content should be that day, next day for more produced content that needs, you know, I don't know if you're needing color grading and stuff like that. Yeah, you should be able to shoot it within a few weeks. So that's the goal is just like how can you shorten that down and make it as easy as possible? But yeah, huge, huge alpha, Huge, huge. Plus if you can have your own studio, you can shoot it and not have to go and hire, you know, an agency and find a space every single time. But one of the other things like we'll do is like we'll do like a house. We're trying to do like stuff less in studio. Like you can get a house for a full day on, on pure space for like 3k or something like that. So that's also something that's nice to do but then you gotta lug all your equipment over.
- [55:23]
Host/Moderator
We probably have the leanest like access to space. I guess. We just moved to a bigger studio in Salt Lake City. So we can, we have like very simple. We can have two setups now. We had a very small one before where we could only have one setup. We've like basically doubled our, our, our bandwidth there. But that's mostly like, that's mostly image oriented. We do all of our own E com photography in house. We're doing, we call it lay flats where we're like shooting it alongside other props and things. That's what gets done in that studio there. We have the network of creators. So any UGC stuff we have a fantastic turnaround time on, but it is done through like contractors at like a hundred bucks a video, a couple hundred bucks a video. So it's not nearly as cost effective as if we had those people in person shooting. But we at least have the turnaround and then for any sort of higher budget production we've just got a different, we're not always going through agencies. We've got a number of like contractors that we'll engage with. So we get some of our lifestyle video shoots done really affordably and really flexibly. And that's kind of the, the stack.
- [56:24]
Connor
I think one of the, one of the new things we've done this year too that Cody reminded me of is just having that, that freelancer with the creator network that we can go to and anytime we have an idea or even if it's just a clip that we think is best served through iPhone footage, not in our studio, through a creator, we can go right to her and say, hey, here's what we're looking for. And then she can go and kind of select the right person for that. That's also been amazing for turning around creator footage quicker versus going right to the creator. Or you have an I mean, I still think the in house creator is a great option for brands and you get the same speed, but you just don't get as much diversity. I think that's the right, like what we've done with this, this freelancer is like a nice balance between diversity and quickness to getting that content turned back around.