Marketing Operators Podcast: Episode E046 Summary

Title: E046: Matt Bertulli: Is Meta Still Incremental? How Paid Media is Changing & Scaling Beyond Facebook Ads
Release Date: February 11, 2025
Hosts: Connor Rolain, Connor MacDonald, Cody Plofker
Guest: Matt Bertulli

I. Introduction and Context

In Episode 46 of the Marketing Operators podcast, hosts Connor Rolain, Connor MacDonald, and Cody Plofker welcome Matt Bertulli to discuss the evolving landscape of paid media, particularly focusing on Meta (formerly Facebook) and its role in modern marketing strategies. The episode delves into whether Meta remains an incremental platform for advertisers and explores alternative avenues for scaling beyond traditional Facebook ads.

II. The Challenge of Meta's Incrementality

The conversation centers around a provocative tweet by Sean (a notable figure in the marketing community) questioning Meta's incremental value: "Is Meta Still Incremental?" This sentiment reflects widespread concerns among marketers about Meta's diminishing returns in reaching new, non-overlapping audiences.

Jason:
"Sean's asking if Meta is incremental anymore. Last year was tough for Meta for most brands."
[Timestamp: 13:50]

Both hosts and Matt agree that the past year presented significant challenges for Meta, with many brands experiencing decreased effectiveness in reaching new customers. Matt elaborates on the complexity of the issue, highlighting that it's not solely about revenue but also about the sheer number of customers acquired over time.

Matt:
"For us, it's hard to find new customers once you've scaled into the millions. Meta just loves to go after who it knows will make us happy, and it's a lot of work."
[Timestamp: 15:32]

III. Definitions and Nuances of Incremental and Profitable Outcomes

A critical distinction made in the discussion is between "incremental" and "profitable" outcomes. Incrementality refers to Meta's ability to generate additional sales that wouldn't have occurred without its advertising, whereas profitability considers the return on ad spend (ROAS).

Connor:
"Incremental and incremental and profitable are two different things... Meta is the only ad platform that has an ad setting you can optimize for incremental outcomes."
[Timestamp: 17:20]

This differentiation is crucial as it underscores that while Meta might still drive extra sales, those sales may not always translate into profitability depending on the cost and efficiency of the campaigns.

IV. Strategies to Address Meta's Declining Incrementality

In response to Meta's challenges, the hosts discuss various strategies to mitigate reliance on the platform:

1. Diversifying Paid Media Spend:

   • TV Advertising: Leveraging traditional television as a trusted channel to reach broader, often older demographics.
   • YouTube and Streaming Services: Utilizing long-form content to engage users actively seeking information or entertainment.
   • Influencer Marketing: Collaborating with creators to tap into their dedicated audiences.

2. Adjusting Campaign Objectives:

   • Moving from purely purchase-optimized campaigns to objectives that foster engagement and brand awareness, such as "view content" optimizations.

Matt:
"We've started creating ads based on our best organic content. This alignment between organic and paid strategies has led to significant growth."
[Timestamp: 50:13]

This shift emphasizes creating high-quality, engaging content that resonates with audiences, rather than solely focusing on direct conversions.

V. Importance of Content Quality and Creator Partnerships

The discussion highlights the convergence of organic and paid strategies, emphasizing the role of authentic, high-quality content in driving successful advertising campaigns. Matt shares his experience of leveraging organic content that naturally performed well and then amplifying it through paid channels.

Matt:
"Our best ads started out as organic content that we created. They went viral, and then we turned them into ads, spending millions on individual ads that performed exceptionally well."
[Timestamp: 47:58]

Additionally, the importance of deep integrations with creators is underscored. Partnering with influencers who align closely with the brand's values and products can lead to more meaningful and impactful campaigns.

Matt:
"We have creators who think deeply about being creators on the Internet. They're aligned with our products and help us craft stories that resonate."
[Timestamp: 84:06]

VI. Measurement and Attribution Tools

Accurate measurement of campaign effectiveness is paramount, especially in a shifting landscape where traditional metrics may no longer suffice. The hosts mention reliance on tools like NorthBeam, a multi-touch attribution platform that provides standardized measurement across various channels.

Connor:
"NorthBeam offers a standard form of measurement across all channels. It provides confidence that we're comparing things accurately and honestly."
[Timestamp: 62:40]

Such tools enable marketers to assess the true impact of their campaigns, distinguishing between mere engagement and actual incremental sales.

VII. Future Directions in Paid Media Strategy

Looking ahead, the hosts discuss plans to further diversify their media mix and reduce reliance on Meta:

1. Increased Investment in TV and YouTube:

   • Allocating a larger portion of the budget to traditional and digital long-form advertising.

2. Enhanced Partnerships and Influencer Collaborations:

   • Focusing on deeper, more integrated collaborations with creators to drive brand awareness and engagement.

3. Exploring New Objectives on Meta:

   • Experimenting with different campaign objectives, such as "quiz completions," to better capture engaged and interested audiences.

Connor:
"We're shifting our budget allocation to partnerships, TV, streaming, and sponsored influencer content to build top-of-funnel awareness."
[Timestamp: 55:43]

These strategies aim to create a more balanced and resilient media mix, ensuring sustained growth even as Meta's efficacy wanes.

VIII. Advice for Marketers and Smaller Brands

For smaller brands or those with limited budgets, the hosts offer actionable advice:

1. Leverage Influencer Marketing:

   • Influencers offer scalability and can be a cost-effective way to reach new audiences without the hefty investments required for TV or extensive Meta campaigns.

2. Focus on Content Quality:

   • Prioritize creating authentic and engaging content that naturally attracts and retains audiences across multiple platforms.

3. Diversify Channels Early On:

   • Avoid putting all ad spend into a single platform. Early diversification can help mitigate risks associated with platform-specific challenges.

Jason:
"Influencer marketing is the most scalable channel at every level. You can start small and scale up without the significant upfront costs associated with TV."
[Timestamp: 71:32]

This guidance emphasizes flexibility and adaptability, encouraging marketers to explore multiple avenues to connect with their audiences.

IX. Conclusion

The episode concludes with the acknowledgment that the paid media landscape is evolving, necessitating a shift in strategies to maintain effectiveness. While Meta remains a significant player, its incremental value is under scrutiny, prompting marketers to explore and invest in alternative channels. The emphasis is on creating high-quality content, building meaningful partnerships, and employing robust measurement tools to navigate the complexities of modern advertising.

Matt:
"Great marketing aligns closely with how users interact with platforms. If we focus on earning our place in someone's feed and being relevant, we likely win more than we lose."
[Timestamp: 22:18]

Jason:
"Channels like prescient and NorthBeam have been instrumental in helping us measure and optimize our media mix effectively."
[Timestamp: 63:51]

Ultimately, the episode serves as a comprehensive exploration of the current challenges and opportunities within paid media, providing listeners with valuable insights and practical strategies to adapt and thrive in a dynamic marketing environment.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Matt Bertulli:
  "For us, it's hard to find new customers once you've scaled into the millions. Meta just loves to go after who it knows will make us happy, and it's a lot of work."
  [15:32]

• Connor Rolain:
  "Incremental and incremental and profitable are two different things... Meta is the only ad platform that has an ad setting you can optimize for incremental outcomes."
  [17:20]

• Jason:
  "Influencer marketing is the most scalable channel at every level. You can start small and scale up without the significant upfront costs associated with TV."
  [71:32]

• Matt Bertulli:
  "Our best ads started out as organic content that we created. They went viral, and then we turned them into ads, spending millions on individual ads that performed exceptionally well."
  [47:58]

• Connor Rolain:
  "NorthBeam offers a standard form of measurement across all channels. It provides confidence that we're comparing things accurately and honestly."
  [62:40]

• Connor Rolain:
  "We're shifting our budget allocation to partnerships, TV, streaming, and sponsored influencer content to build top-of-funnel awareness."
  [55:43]

• Jason:
  "Channels like prescient and NorthBeam have been instrumental in helping us measure and optimize our media mix effectively."
  [63:51]

• Matt Bertulli:
  "Great marketing aligns closely with how users interact with platforms. If we focus on earning our place in someone's feed and being relevant, we likely win more than we lose."
  [22:18]

This comprehensive summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and strategic conclusions from Episode E046 of the Marketing Operators podcast. It provides a valuable resource for marketers seeking to understand the current dynamics of paid media and the shifting role of platforms like Meta in their advertising strategies.