Marketing Operators Podcast Summary Episode E064: Does Conversion Rate Matter? Dylan Ander on CRO Best Practices & Smarter Web Analytics Release Date: June 17, 2025
Introduction and Guest Background
In Episode E064 of Marketing Operators, hosts Cody Plofker, Connor McDonald, and Connor Rowland delve into the critical topic of Conversion Rate Optimization (CRO) with special guest Dylan Ander from Heatmap. Dylan brings a wealth of experience in e-commerce and CRO, having built and sold multiple ventures, including a successful split-testing agency.
Rethinking Conversion Metrics
One of the central discussions revolves around the effectiveness of traditional conversion rate metrics. Dylan Ander expresses strong opinions on the subject:
Dylan Ander [10:49]: "We hate conversion rate. If you guys... have boards asking 'What's our conversion rate? How's our website doing?', they're missing the bigger picture."
Dylan argues that global conversion rates are often misleading because they ignore the myriad of external factors influencing conversions, such as traffic quality and marketing strategies. Instead, he advocates for more nuanced metrics like page-level conversion rates and Average Order Value (AOV).
The Significance of Average Order Value (AOV)
AOV emerges as a crucial metric for profitability. Dylan emphasizes its importance over mere conversion rates:
Dylan Ander [13:09]: "AOV is highly underpowered. It doesn't just increase revenue but also profit margins on shipping and everything else."
Both Connor McDonald and Connor Rowland share their experiences, highlighting instances where optimizing for AOV led to significant revenue boosts without compromising overall profitability.
Connor Rowland [16:22]: "We've been driving more orders by offering more optionality, even if it meant a slight dip in AOV, leading to overall higher revenue per user."
Effective Price Testing Strategies
Price testing is another pivotal area covered in the episode. Dylan underscores its importance and shares actionable strategies:
Dylan Ander [39:29]: "Price testing is one of the biggest levers on the planet. Experiment within the ranges of 5-10% below or above the current price to gauge impact."
Both Connors discuss their experiences with price testing, illustrating how adjustments in pricing can lead to substantial changes in conversion rates and overall revenue.
Connor McDonald [38:10]: "Our favorite price test involved reducing the price of pens by 20%, resulting in a 60% increase in conversion rate and a significant lift in revenue per session."
Leveraging Heatmap Analytics for Website Optimization
A significant portion of the conversation focuses on Heatmap analytics and how to effectively utilize them for website optimization. Dylan provides a step-by-step walkthrough of analyzing a homepage using Heatmap's metrics.
Dylan Ander [45:14]: "Revenue per session is the most valuable metric we offer. It helps you understand the revenue driven by each element on your page."
He highlights the importance of factors such as font size, navigation structure, and social proof in enhancing user engagement and conversions.
Dylan Ander [72:56]: "Your navigation should include elements like social proof and clear submenu items. For instance, having testimonials in the navigation can significantly boost revenue per click."
Dylan also introduces upcoming features in Heatmap, such as dwell time analysis, which will provide deeper insights into user interactions with content sections.
E-commerce Funnel Benchmarks
Understanding and benchmarking e-commerce funnels is crucial for assessing website performance. Dylan shares average conversion metrics across various stages of the funnel based on data from over 400 brands.
Dylan Ander [62:34]: "On average, 50% of all sessions view a product page, with a 13% add-to-cart rate. From add to cart, about 42% initiate checkout, and roughly 50% of those complete a purchase."
Cody shares his own funnel metrics, leading to a discussion on the importance of context when interpreting these benchmarks.
Cody [66:13]: "Our add-to-cart rate is 11.9%, slightly below the average, but our checkout to purchase rate is at 42.7%, which aligns well with industry standards."
Dylan advises that benchmarks are only meaningful when considered alongside metrics like AOV, emphasizing that high AOV can offset lower conversion rates.
Actionable Insights for Marketers
Throughout the episode, Dylan provides numerous actionable insights for marketers aiming to optimize their websites:
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Optimize Font Sizes:
Dylan Ander [45:57]: "Your headline should be at least 18pt and body copy no less than 14pt to ensure readability, especially for older demographics."
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Enhance Navigation: Incorporate elements like social proof, clear submenu items, and descriptive headers to improve user engagement.
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Utilize Customer Feedback Surveys:
Dylan Ander [20:00]: "Customer feedback surveys are the most underutilized aspect of CRO. They provide qualitative data that can guide website adjustments effectively."
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Implement Revenue Metrics: Focus on revenue per session and revenue per click rather than global conversion rates to gain a clearer understanding of element performance.
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Personalize User Experience: Use personalization tools to dynamically adjust website elements based on user behavior and preferences.
Conclusion
Episode E064 of Marketing Operators offers a deep dive into the intricacies of CRO beyond traditional metrics. With Dylan Ander’s expertise, the hosts uncover the limitations of relying solely on conversion rates and highlight the pivotal role of AOV and targeted price testing. The practical insights on leveraging Heatmap analytics and understanding funnel benchmarks provide marketers with robust strategies to enhance their e-commerce performance.
Notable Quotes:
- Dylan Ander [10:49]: "Conversion rate is really about business optimization, not just website changes."
- Connor Rowland [16:22]: "Offering more product options can lead to higher revenue per user, even if AOV dips slightly."
- Dylan Ander [39:29]: "Price testing is one of the biggest levers on the planet."
For listeners seeking to optimize their e-commerce strategies, this episode underscores the importance of looking beyond surface metrics and adopting a holistic approach to business optimization.