Marketing Operators Podcast

Episode: From Organic Creative to Paid Performance: The New Flywheel

Hosts: Connor Rolain, Connor MacDonald, Cody Plofker
Guest Contributor: Ariana
Date: February 10, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the evolving dynamics between organic creative and paid performance content—what the hosts call "the new flywheel" for modern marketing. Drawing from real brands, their own hands-on experience as operators, and emerging trends on platforms like TikTok and Instagram, they lay out how brands should be thinking about creator-driven marketing, the diminishing role of traditional influencers, and actionable steps for building high-volume, native content machines that feed both organic channels and paid media accounts.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The End of Influencer Marketing and the Rise of Creator Marketing

• Ariana kicks off by saying influencer marketing is “basically completely dead” and the new game is creator-driven marketing—high-volume, native, and less about traditional influence, more about scalable creative from every corner of the internet.
• Cody expands: Reach is no longer guaranteed or based on follower count. “It’s all downstream of seeding, really… Whether it’s affiliate on TikTok shop or it’s just your IG, you’re going to get some funnel conversion rate of this is how many packages I sent out, this is people that posted, and then this is how much revenue they drove as an affiliate.” (00:06)
• Connor summarizes the new reality: “As long as they pass my instantaneous sniff test, it doesn’t matter who it’s coming from. If they have an interesting point, I’ll look at it and I might even act on it.” (00:19)

2. Why Organic and Paid Creative Must Merge

• Cody describes a shift: old rules around paid and organic are blurring—algorithms demand both be creator-led, authentic, rapid, unpolished, and adaptable.
• Connor details workflow changes: “We had our first meeting with our content team and our paid media creative strategy team… One of the big ones was building out some sort of workflow, some sort of flywheel where we are every month going back, looking at our top performing organic creative and then basically… make it more of a paid concept.” (07:27)
• Cody on the necessity: “It should be one process or at least under one roof… you really have no idea what’s going to work so you just need so much value.” (11:32)
• Notable Example: The board at Cody’s company had to be taught the social “new normal”—algos, volume, lo-fi content, and realness—before greenlighting major investment away from feed-centric, aspirational content to rapid, creator-driven campaigns (14:36).

3. Modern Content Flywheels: How to Operationalize

• Brands excelling: Komfort on TikTok Shop (massive affiliate activation), Groons on paid social, Duolingo on organic. All win with volume and creator-centric approaches (11:32).
• Cody’s plan for Jones Road:
  • Hire a senior creative strategist.
  • Run creator competitions/trials.
  • Test multiple content pillars (episodic, lo-fi, founder-led, replies, behind the scenes, etc.).
  • Data-driven: Use tools like Outer Signal to spot high-potential creators already buying/interacting with the brand (30:31).
• Cody on execution: “We'll hire a bunch of creators to run some of these accounts, test some things… Whoever's successful, we'll hire them full time… It's got to be just super experimental.” (26:07)
• Testing & Iteration: “Maybe only 10% of the social posts are going to be a one-for-one ad. But it's super cheap to produce all of this organic content… If we do enough of it… this is just our new brand awareness channel that we're just trying to use the algorithms to crank scale.” (44:36)

4. The Strategic Importance of Algorithmic / Creator-Volume Content

• Ariana identifies two strategies:
  • Commercial/product-oriented affiliate content that’s highly attributable (Comfy, Goalie, Kitch).
  • Content-first, episodic/brand-building content (Duolingo, Cluly, built).
• Both are needed, but most DTC brands will get more ROI from the former: “You're going to generate more value from the long tail of creators generating product-oriented content. It becomes more likely to feed the paid media flywheel...” (70:18)
• Cody: “Instead of paying somebody 20 grand for one piece of content because they have followers, it’s better to take that budget and spray and pray a little bit.” (00:58)

5. The Measurement Challenge—KPIs for the New World

• Connor & Cody debate metrics:
  • Brand search uplift is great but hard to attribute.
  • Track views, engagement, and EMV (engagement^reach); but accept much will be “gut” and learning-driven (41:10).
  • “We’re not trying to measure it as a direct performance channel… we just want to crank scale.” (44:01)
• Ariana’s caution: Some content is great for views, but may never yield performance ads: “We had… someone owning TikTok, we were doing on the street interviews, we drove millions of impressions. They weren’t becoming good ads at any sort of significant rate. And then the value of those impressions was questionable in my opinion.” (43:11)

6. The Evolution of Seeding, Affiliate, and Briefing

• All forms of “seeding” and affiliate/creator activation are converging: “Micro-influencers, affiliate, and product seeding are just flavors of activating a long tail of people. What I care most about is creating massive amounts of content.” (57:01)
• Mass, not perfection: “How are you getting product into thousands of people's hands turns into a really effective way to create great content.” (59:10)
• Connor on briefing: Briefs must be sharper and more performance-oriented if you want organic content to feed paid flywheels: “Even we had an extremely low hit rate in terms of organically seeded product to ad. But we saw it… If we, if we continue to refine that process, I could see solving what I want to by simply better briefing…” (57:01, 59:40)

7. Retiring the Old Influencer Playbook

• Consensus: “Influencer marketing” as a standalone term is outdated; it's all creator marketing now.
• Ariana: “I just think that [traditional influencer marketing] ultimately completely goes away and it becomes, as you said Cody, creator marketing. Because this idea that you’re going to partner with 50 people who are influential… just feels inherently less scalable or like long term scenario or outcome.” (61:55)
• Cody: “Followers are almost meaningless. I’d rather do the TikTok Shop approach… The main focus has to be on this creator approach.” (64:10)
• But—exceptions endure: Podcasts and long-form YouTube still foster deeper influence because of more sustained attention (64:55).

8. Which Brands Should Invest in Capital B “Brand” Content?

• Connor asks: When does it make sense to do high-production, narrative or episodic brand series, à la Yeti or Huckberry?
• Cody: Only if you can truly drive audience/interest at scale and have the infrastructure/talent for it. “Some is just a subjective choice... Like, are we good at it? …Are we going to put $300k into this thing and get 2k views per video like most brands?” (68:04)
• Ariana: For most, the probability of success lies with performance and affiliate content, but some brands (with the right DNA, resources, and ambition) can and should build for both.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Influencer marketing is basically completely dead. It becomes creator marketing.” – Ariana (00:00)
• “Reach is no longer guaranteed… it’s all downstream of seeding.” – Cody (00:06)
• “You don’t know what’s going to hit: organic, paid, social. The main focus has to be on this creator approach.” – Cody (00:44, 64:55)
• “Let’s take a bunch of awesome… organic content. Let’s take the top stuff… launch it in the ad account.” – Connor (00:50, 52:34)
• “Instead of paying someone 20 grand for one piece of content because they have followers, it’s better to take that budget and spray and pray.” – Cody (00:58, 55:57)
• “The value of a follower is so diminished… As long as [content] passes my instantaneous sniff test, it doesn’t matter who it’s coming from.” – Connor (00:19, 65:38)
• “You have to be at the right journey in your company. I literally had a four hour board meeting to teach our board how social algorithms work…” – Cody (49:10)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00 – 00:44: Opening shot at influencer marketing; the rise of creators and the collapse of follower-based “influence.”
• 07:27 – 12:54: Merging creative teams, the need for a structured flywheel, and brands doing it right.
• 14:36 – 16:36: Social's algorithmic shift and why polished, feed-based content is dead.
• 18:09 – 21:48: Distinguishing product-led affiliate content vs. “content-for-content’s-sake.”
• 23:50 – 26:07: Structuring internal teams for content volume, competition, and experimentation.
• 41:10 – 44:36: KPIs, brand search, the value (and challenge) of impressions as a metric.
• 52:34: Affiliate/creator content as the new paid media flywheel.
• 61:55 – 64:55: Why influencer payouts are obsolete; “it’s all about creator democracy now.”
• 68:04 – 70:18: Does Capital B brand content matter? Only at the right maturity—and with the right skills and narrative power.

Summary Table – The New Content Flywheel

| Old Model (Influencer) | New Model (Creator/Algorithmic) | |----------------------------------|------------------------------------------------| | Select few with massive followings| High-volume, diverse, “micro” creators | | Followers drive reach | Algorithm selects content, followers matter little| | Polished, planned, aspirational | Native, “lo-fi”, experimental, volume-based | | Direct measurement, performance | Mixed KPIs: impressions, engagement, learning | | Paid big for individual content | Spray and pray—low cost, high iteration |

Actionable Takeaways for Listeners

• Dismantle silos: Combine or highly coordinate organic and paid creative teams.
• Volume wins: Create 10x more content, expect only a small percentage will feed paid media.
• Recruit creators, not influencers: Run trials, use customer data, hire creators in residence for ongoing content.
• Brief smarter: Don’t rely on “organic magic”—intentionally brief affiliates and creators to test value props, overcome objections, and fit your content into your paid funnel.
• Let algorithms guide you: Use views/engagement as proxies, but smartly iterate on what the algo and real people latch onto.
• Don’t neglect brand—just be realistic: Episodic/capital B “Brand” content works only for brands with resources, narrative, and a platform fit.

Memorable Moment

Ariana checks the pulse on “influencer marketing:”
“I was listening to a podcast and they were using the term influencer marketing and I just felt like that's basically completely dead...” (00:00)

Cody, on the new doctrine:
"It's all downstream of seeding really... Rather than paying somebody 20 grand for one piece of content because they have followers, it's better to take that budget and spray and pray a little bit." (00:06, 00:58, 55:57)

Connor, the media consumer POV:
“As long as they pass my instantaneous sniff test, it doesn’t matter who it’s coming from. If they have an interesting point, I’ll look at it and I might even act on it.” (00:19, 65:38)

This episode is a must-listen for any marketer grappling with the new rules of organic and paid content, where creator democracy, agile teams, and algorithmic speed have replaced the world of followers, big names, and polished campaigns.