Podcast Summary: Operators Titans E004 – David Herrmann, the Media Buyer’s Media Buyer

Podcast: Marketing Operators
Hosts: Connor Rolain, Connor MacDonald, Cody Plofker
Guest: David Herrmann, Founder of Herrmann Digital
Date: October 16, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode features David Herrmann—often described as "the media buyer’s media buyer." With nearly two decades of experience and over a billion dollars in paid ad spend, Herrmann has managed campaigns for brands ranging from non-profits to D2C giants. In this wide-ranging, candid conversation, he shares his journey, lessons learned from deep industry experience, thoughts on creative strategy in 2025, and tactical advice for marketers at every level.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Herrmann’s Unconventional Approach & Backstory

• Eschewing Personal Branding: Herrmann maintains just a one-page website with only his name and a contact button.
  • "I just don't really want to have a website. For me, it's like I've kind of bucked the trend of trying to have this big personal brand showing off." [00:06]
• Early Career: Started in the music industry, worked for a city chamber of commerce, handled marketing across non-profits, corporates, and D2C brands.
• Grassroots Digital Marketing:
  • Experienced the power of online communities as early as the 2008 recession, collaborating with thought leaders and future company founders (e.g., Honest Company, Tom’s Shoes, viral movements like Kony 2012).

2. Mission & Values

• Against Trend-Chasing: Herrmann rejects the “hustle/Ferrari/Lamborghini” cliché in marketing.
• Mental Health & Realism: Strives to provide solidarity for marketers, advocating transparency about challenges and the isolation of digital marketing work.
  • "I'm just, I've been doing this 17 years and I'm still clicking buttons in Facebook. It's frustrating, lonely...that’s always been my core mission with other marketers." [00:32], [19:32], [20:53]
• Impact via Community: Regularly receives messages from peers expressing how his openness on Twitter has steadied them during stressful times.

3. Turning Points in Career

• Laid Off – A Gift in Disguise: An agency let him go but supported his transition to entrepreneurship, giving him time and resources to start his own business.
  • "They knew that I was unhappy...laid me off, gave me the computer, gave me six months, like, hey, we know you want to do your own thing, so we're actually just going to let you do it." [13:31]
• Client Acquisition: Early clients included local boat slip rentals and nonprofits—emphasizing that strange, high-ticket items (e.g., MRI machines) can also be sold online. [02:04]
• Growth Fueled by Relationships: Built his client base via local outreach before transitioning to nine-figure D2C brands.

4. Marketing Thought Leaders and Learning

• Gary Vaynerchuk’s Conceptual Influence:
  • "It was the only one at the time talking about buying attention online and figuring out how to do these things." [15:50]
• John Loomer’s Technical Training: Purchased Loomer’s Power Editor courses early on for Facebook ads operational know-how. [18:19]
• Scarcity of Early Resources: Digital marketing experts and content were rare in the late-2000s and early-2010s.

5. Building and Scaling Herrmann Digital

• Boutique Over Bloat: Prefers selective client relationships and small teams over scaling into a large agency.
  • Never grew beyond 5 team members, even during COVID-19 traffic surges, emphasizing fit over volume.
  • Experiences “organized chaos”—balancing deep brand immersion with the stress of rapid scaling. [26:40]
• Team Structure: Shares brand management duties with key team members, switching roles to maintain fresh perspective.

6. Changing Industry Demands (2024–2025)

• Media Buyers = Creative Strategists: Today, agencies must handle creative strategy, execution, planning, data analysis, and more—often simultaneously—due to shifting brand demands and compressed budgets.
  • "The media buyer team has started to have to do a lot more of the heavy hitting on the creative side...It just becomes a lot more stressful." [33:04]
• Creative Bottlenecks: Brands now need not just “great” creative but high volume (think 60+ pieces of content, not 8).

7. Effective Team & Agency Structures for Modern Brands

• Multiple Creative Partners: Top brands often juggle 2–3 creative agencies—some paid on percent of ad spend, some on a flat fee—to ensure both volume and experimentation.
  • Proof-of-concept and persona-specific work goes to variable-compensation agencies; reliable evergreen execution to flat-fee partners. [36:33]
• Role of Internal Teams: Internal teams often focus on launches, lightning-fast iterations, and high-value projects, leaving scale and persona testing to agencies.

8. Marketing Mix & Channel Prioritization by Brand Stage

• Early-Stage Brands: Focus on Meta (Facebook) + a dash of Google, then scale up with channels like Applovin as spend grows. [40:58]
• Larger Brands: Typical split is ~60% Meta, ~10% Google, ~10% Applovin, rest split among TikTok, Snapchat, Pinterest, Connected TV—channel allocations vary by vertical.
• Emergence of Applovin: Applovin has rapidly overtaken platforms like TikTok/Snapchat for many D2C brands, praised for easy scaling and performance.
• Pinterest is for Intent, not Direct Conversion: Used as a top-of-funnel, planning/awareness channel; tracking success by CPC and time-on-site rather than direct conversions.
  • "Pinterest is entirely not a performance channel...It's a walking billboard in front of people that are planning." [45:12]

9. AI in Creative Production

• Small Teams = AI Leverage: For startups, AI-powered creative (Gemini, GPT, etc.) generates weekly assets for rapid iteration, with minimal focus on polish.
  • "Creating a creative agency out of AI, I think for the smaller brands is a no brainer at this point." [39:18]

10. Creative Diversity & Algorithm ‘Untraining’

• Warns Against Sameness: Too much of the same UGC-style creative can overfit Meta/Applovin’s AI; mixing in high-production DSLR, static, stop-motion, and diverse creators is key.
  • "If I look at my motion in my top six tops, top spending ads all look the same. I'm running red flags..." [55:14]
• Sometimes Must ‘Untrain’ the Algorithm: Willingly run divergent creative—at a loss if needed—to break the platform out of its learned groove.

11. Tactical Insights & Quick Takes (Titan 10)

• Desert Island Dashboard Metrics:
  • 1. Time on site
  • 2. Conversion rate
  • 3. CPC
• "Time on site, it can make or break you at the end of the day." [66:04], [66:18]
• Leadership and Business:
  • Most important leadership word: “Accountability” [70:23]
  • Most important business word: “Clean dude.” [70:31]
• Most Overrated Tactic: The “inflated bid cap strategy” on Meta—setting huge budgets with low CPA caps (very risky, breaks easily).
• Most Underrated Tactic: “Patience.” Campaigns need more time to mature, especially as conversion windows lengthen.
  • "We're not in the era anymore of people just spending, spending, spending...We're in the era of waiting, waiting, spending." [72:33]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Authentic Community:
  "You got me off a ledge. I was stressed and I saw your tweet about that and you helped calm me down for the weekend. I'm like, I did my job." — David Herrmann [00:58]
• On Website Minimalism:
  "I'm so in demand, I have to de-optimize the site. No SEO. Hard to find, hard to contact. That's how you're vetting your clients. I like it." — Host [06:44]
• On Creative Fatigue:
  "There's no creative in that...you're just, you know, it's boring. Now you get teams that get excited, pushing them along—like, what can we do?" — David Herrmann [55:14]
• On Iteration and Patience:
  "Having more patience with your ad campaigns...Give it more time. Resist the urge to click a button to turn it off." — David Herrmann [72:34]

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | | ---------------------------------------------------- | ---- | | Introduction, Minimal Website Philosophy | 00:00–00:30 | | Strangest Thing Sold Online (MRI Machines) | 02:04–03:55 | | Building Brands with Eclectic Experience | 07:30–13:09 | | Early Influences: Gary Vee, John Loomer | 15:50–19:05 | | Social Media Openness and Mission | 19:07–22:55 | | Launching Herrmann Digital, Boutique Approach | 26:11–36:04 | | Creative Agency Models & Modern Brand Structure | 36:04–38:18 | | Role of AI in Creative for Startups | 38:18–40:23 | | Marketing Mix by Growth Stage | 40:23–45:12 | | Pinterest as Top-of-Funnel, Incrementality | 45:12–49:40 | | Applovin: Creative Porting and Channel Strategy | 49:40–53:49 | | Algorithm Overtraining & Creative Diversity | 55:14–58:56 | | Big Brand Creative – Divergence and Recalibration | 58:56–62:04 | | Titan 10 Quickfire Questions (Metrics, Leadership) | 65:39–73:54 | | The Case for Patience in Modern Paid Media | 72:26–73:54 |

Conclusion

David Herrmann pulls back the curtain on both the technical and very human realities of modern media buying. His advice is grounded, tactical, and shaped by a career spanning nonprofit work, D2C hypergrowth, and everything in between. Core themes: authenticity, adaptability, and patience. If you're a media buyer, performance marketer, or brand-side operator, this episode offers both tactical playbooks and a north star for staying grounded in a frenetic industry.

For further tactical breakdowns and access to resources mentioned, visit the Marketing Operators podcast page or follow David Herrmann directly on social media.