Podcast Summary: The New Ecommerce Playbook – DR Funnels, CRO, and Buyer Behavior

Podcast: Marketing Operators
Hosts: Connor Rolain, Connor MacDonald, Cody Plofker
Guest: Dylan Ander (Author, "Billion Dollar Websites")
Date: January 20, 2026
Episode: #95

Episode Overview

In this episode, the hosts welcome back Dylan Ander, two-time guest and author of "Billion Dollar Websites," to dive deep into the latest e-commerce playbook. The conversation centers on the evolving world of direct response (DR) funnels, conversion rate optimization (CRO), buyer behavior, and the increasing role (and potential pitfalls) of AI in creative and customer research. The episode blends practical frameworks with hot takes, real-world brand strategy, and a heavy focus on research and customer-centric growth.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The State of AI in Ecommerce Marketing

• AI Plateau in Software: Dylan argues that AI for software is nearing a point of diminishing returns, with the future lying more in robotics and machine learning for physical processes. (03:56, 05:22)
  • "AI is close to being maxed out on software, which might be a crazy concept to think..." – Dylan [03:56]
• Creative Strategy: New AI-powered tools like "Analyze This" are making creative analysis easier, automating deep insights that formerly took days (Motion App example). (01:38, 02:45)
• Trust, Authenticity, and the Coming 'Human Renaissance':
  • Regulations like C2PA will tag AI-generated media, making authenticity a new status symbol and potentially restoring value to non-AI, "real" content. (07:05, 08:49)
    • "We're going to destroy trust. If every ... content ... just says AI, people aren't going to trust it as much. So I think there's a human renaissance coming on." — Dylan [00:58, 07:05]
  • Expect a rise in live streaming, organic, unfakeable content. (08:49)

2. Evolving Funnel Strategies & Website Experience

• Book Funnel Tactics & Consumer Savviness:
  • Info & affiliate marketers are 3–4 years ahead of e-commerce in funnel tactics. (24:50)
  • The old "free plus shipping" model is losing effectiveness as consumers seek more options and freedom. (13:20, 15:31)
    • "Funnels that cut off the header, cut off the footer, ... force them into one thing—that was early 2020s..." – Dylan [15:31]
• Rethinking "Homepage vs. Landing Page":
  • Many scaled brands now send ad traffic straight to their homepage, especially if it's well-optimized for navigation and choice. (16:47 - 18:07)
    • "My top 10 customers on heatmap by volume all send their ads to their homepage." — Dylan [16:47]
  • Homepages should act like a store entrance: broad, then progressively more specific, with collection (category) tiles outperforming product tiles for brands with wide SKU counts. (21:47 - 22:42)
    • "Instead of having those product tiles ... take a look at collection styles. They're crushing pretty well." — Dylan [22:42]
  • Custom "Trojan Horse" landers that mimic homepages with navigation and press/social proof have shown strong results [20:08].
  • The key: let the consumer browse and self-select, rather than force them down a single path.

3. Info Products and Maximizing LTV (Lifetime Value)

• Info Products Drive Margin:

  • Digital upsells (like $9 video courses) have high margin and boost both revenue and engagement.
  • Brands should not shy away from “info” offers—physical products can be complemented and elevated with ebooks, videos, online workshops, etc. (28:05 - 32:55)
    • "I've always had paid education upsells … they're 100% margin … or we make a little video course and we upsell them..." — Dylan [28:05]
  • Free info (ebooks, recipes, guides) is a powerful value-add and lead magnet, particularly for higher-priced products.
  • "You can do so much as a super niche brand that just knows more about this stuff than others." — Dylan [37:03]

• Diversifying Offers:

  • Brands are increasingly adopting tactics from info/affiliate marketers—post-purchase upsells, founder stories, and paid education. (25:37)
    • "Info and affiliate are always three to four years ahead of the tactics of my fellow E Comm brand marketers." — Dylan [24:50]
  • Adding an "About the Founder" section and page together yielded a 14% global revenue lift in one case. (26:20)

4. The Billion Dollar Data Funnel: Doing Research That Matters

• Six-Part Research Framework (The Billion Dollar Data Funnel, p.32):
  • 1. Raw data analysis: GA4, journey analytics, funnel drop-off
  • 2. User testing: UserTesting.com, get real navigation feedback
  • 3. Competitor analysis: Rigidly broken down by five website pillars—offers, value props, copy, creativ, UX
  • 4. Exit-intent surveys & customer feedback
  • 5. Heatmaps & screen recordings
  • 6. Qualitative interviews (pick up the phone!)
• Brands still under-invest in true, qualitative research, focusing too much on analytics dashboards instead of talking to real customers. (44:12, 44:19, 44:51)
  • "If you don't know what your customers eat and where they eat Tuesday mornings for breakfast ... then you don't know enough about your customer." — Dylan [39:45]
• ICE Scoring for Prioritization:
  • Every test or idea gets ranked by Impact, Confidence, and Ease (each 1–5). The best ideas float to the top, regardless of whether they’re “small” or “big.” (46:14)
  • "What makes a big test is how well it aligns to your research." — Dylan [82:18]
• All tests are big tests if rooted in research. Even a modest headline copy change can yield huge gains if it aligns with customer insight. (84:29 - 84:44)

5. Building Effective Feedback Loops

• Founders Must Lead Research:
  • Initially, high-level leaders (CMO/CEO) should drive customer insight efforts to set the tone, then hand off.
  • "The CMO should or the CEO should [own research]. It's that important." — Cody (paraphrasing Jake Cohen) [59:17]
• Customer Advisory Boards & Targeted Surveys:
  • Advisory groups (even if biased toward superfans) and precise, open-ended survey design informed by FBI negotiation tactics (Chris Voss’s "what/how" Qs) yield rich data. (62:47 - 64:36)
  • Feedback must go deeper than surface responses—use "5 Whys" (Six Sigma) to reach root cause. (57:30 - 58:20)
• Testing Velocity and Attribution:
  • Test aggressively but avoid overlapping tests on interconnected journey pages (max two at once).
  • Use “evolutionary redesign” over big-bang relaunches—ship, test, learn, repeat. (71:14, 72:56)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On AI & Authenticity:
  • "If every Jones Road piece of content ... just says AI, people aren't going to trust it as much. So I think there's a human renaissance coming on." — Dylan [00:58]
• On Testing Mindset:
  • "All tests are big tests as long as they're rooted in research." — Connor & Dylan [84:29, 84:44]
• On Research Depth:
  • "If you don't know what your customers eat and where they eat on Tuesday mornings for breakfast ... then you don't know enough about your customer." — Dylan [39:45]
• On Funnels & Autonomy:
  • "Let them walk into Walmart and go around and shop versus push them in the funnel and force them into that." — Dylan [13:49]
• On the Power of Simple Tests:
  • "My biggest winning split test ... I literally changed one word on the nav. ... That gave a 9% global lift in revenue." — Dylan [82:18]
• On Prioritization:
  • "What makes a big test is how well it aligns to your research." — Dylan [82:18]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• AI Hot Takes and C2PA & Human Renaissance: 03:56–08:49
• Homepage vs. Landing Pages, Funnel Evolution: 16:47–22:42
• Info Products & Margins, About the Founder, Learning from Affiliates: 24:50–32:55
• Data Funnel, Six Types of Research: 39:45–44:51
• ICE Scoring & Prioritizing Tests: 46:14–47:52
• Customer Advisory Boards & Feedback Rigor: 50:58–54:02, 62:47–65:07
• Evolutionary Redesign, Testing Velocity: 71:14–79:08
• Big vs. Small Tests, Power of Research-Driven Changes: 82:18–84:44

Practical Takeaways

1. Lean into Real, Human Content: Authentic, unfaked content is becoming more valuable as AI’s presence grows and tools for AI detection proliferate.
2. Invest in Research: The most successful brands are customer-obsessed, employing both qualitative and quantitative approaches.
3. Homepages Can Win: For broad-assortment brands, a well-optimized homepage with collection tiles can outperform traditional DR landing pages.
4. Use ICE to Prioritize: Rank every idea or proposed site/test change on Impact, Confidence, and Ease; hammer high scorers first.
5. Treat All Tests as Potentially Major: Even “small” UI changes can drive large results if grounded in deep research.
6. Iterate, Don’t Redesign Blind: Ship changes incrementally, test multiple variants where possible, and avoid overlapping experiments.
7. Expand Monetization: Info/educational products, upsells, and founder storytelling boost LTV and trust—and, increasingly, are table stakes.
8. Customer Feedback Is Ongoing: Advisory boards, structured surveys, and proper question framing yield priceless insight.

Resources & Further Reading

• Book: Billion Dollar Websites by Dylan Ander
• Newsletter: Dylan Ander’s Newsletter
• Tool: Heatmap.com — Advanced web analytics & customer behavior tool
• C2PA: Content Authenticity Initiative

For anyone who wants to rethink their approach to CRO, customer research, or eCommerce funnel strategy, this episode is a goldmine—a must-listen on merging classic info tactics with modern e-com realities.