Marketing Operators Podcast – Episode Summary

Episode Title: When to Diversify or Evolve Your Media Mix: How To Approach Channel Expansion (Bonus Episode)
Hosts: Connor Rolain, Connor MacDonald, Cody Plofker
Date: September 25, 2025
Guest: Michael Epstein, Co-Founder and Co-CEO of PostPilot

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into expanding and diversifying the media mix, with a heavy focus on retention marketing strategies—especially the role of direct mail in modern e-commerce DTC brands. The hosts share their personal and brand experiences with multi-channel retention, outlining sequencing strategies for email, SMS, ads, and direct mail. Special guest Michael Epstein of PostPilot discusses how the platform is transforming direct mail from a tedious legacy tool to a Klaviyo-like, data-driven, easy-to-use retention and acquisition channel.

Engaging, detailed, and actionable, the discussion includes personal anecdotes, live data examples, and practical advice for brands of all sizes considering direct mail or expanding their channel mix.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reflections from Beanstalk Conference (00:00–03:05)

• Cody shares insights from meeting Gary Vaynerchuk, underscoring his authenticity and helpfulness.
• Discussed the unique "speed dating" style meetings that made the event productive for networking with current vendors and learning about new ones.
• The conference structure prioritized smaller, discussion-based groups rather than traditional keynotes, leading to more meaningful dialogues.
  • Quote: “There were multiple people that… I had business with. It was just good to… see them in person and handle a bunch of things at once.” – Cody ([01:29])

2. The Case for Multichannel Retention (06:40–13:03)

• Most DTC brands are acquisition-oriented initially, but as their product catalog and customer base mature, retention strategies need to become more sophisticated.
• Connor MacDonald describes structuring a team where a VP of Marketing leads retention, encompassing email, SMS, partnerships, organic social, and community.
• Emphasis on strong sequencing:
  • Email is prioritized as the cheapest channel.
  • SMS and ads follow.
  • Direct mail, while expensive, can be highly effective.
• Brands should leverage cohort data: The first 7–30 days after purchase drive most repeat orders, often within the same product category.
  • Quote: “I want to get in front of them with whatever offer we feel is best… over time, would love to prioritize the cheapest retention channels… most expensive is probably direct mail, but can be extremely impactful.” – Connor MacDonald ([06:45])
• Cody adds that retention is always capped by category/product (e.g., mattresses vs. consumables), and you should focus on email and SMS as low-hanging fruit but consider direct mail as a unique tangible touch.

3. Practical Sequencing & Cross-Sell Flows (08:53–13:03)

• Sequencing retention messaging:
  • Short term: Leverage data to cross-sell complementary products (“wallet” customer → key case).
  • Long term: Build category awareness for future reacquisition.
  • Crossover between categories is rare; marketing should respect the logical “degrees” of product adjacency.
• Klaviyo and AI-enabled segmentation are helping automate and personalize the process further.
  • Quote: "We have data on what’s most likely to be the second purchase... It’s often within the same category." – Connor MacDonald ([10:03])

4. Direct Mail: Strategy, Execution & Lessons (13:03–37:49)

Why Direct Mail Has Come Back

• Direct mail provides a physical, memorable brand impression—sits on the coffee table, lasts weeks, is repeat-viewed, and can be educational (e.g., catalogs, content inserts).
• Example: Some brands only do quarterly catalogs for physical stores and see significant sales impact.
  • Quote: “It’s almost like the index funds of marketing, where your meta and digital is more like day trading.” – Cody ([14:27])

Testing, Segmentation & Incrementality

• Direct mail tests have shown that customers are most likely to reorder in the first 7–14 days post-purchase—even more than waiting for them to “use the product.”
• Sophisticated brands use predictive LTV (based on AOV, product purchased) to decide whom to re-engage.
• Example from Ridge: Data visualizations showed catalogs creating a multi-day spike in traffic and conversions with extremely long engagement times (4.5 minutes on site; 17% conversion rate) ([24:15]).
  • Quote: “I was super blown away by that. Clearly these [catalogs] are sitting on people's tabletops for weeks.” – Connor ([24:15])
• Both Ridge and Hexclad start with large, beautiful mailers for major holidays or product launches; more cost-effective formats should be tested first.

Segment Learnings

• Contrary to expectations, direct mail is often MORE incremental with already-engaged customers (vs. lapsed/unengaged), signaling that repeated omnichannel touch-points are powerful.
  • Quote: “We saw a significantly higher ROAS...on engaged customers.” – Connor ([29:40])
  • Quote: “It’s almost like the opposite of acquisition...spending more on people closer to conversion is actually worthwhile.” – Cody ([32:11])
• Brands should test and find their own most incremental segments with cohort holdout testing.

5. Direct Mail as a Brand-Building Tool (27:23–37:49)

• Show-and-tell of Hexclad and Ridge’s premium 16–24 page holiday mailers, praised for integrating product education, social proof, recipes, and emotional/lifestyle branding.
• Physical mail creates anticipation and “event marketing”—customers look forward to annual mailers or sweepstakes.
  • Quote: “Nobody is putting our meta ads on their desk because they think it’s a beautiful piece of content.” – Connor ([34:27])

6. Direct Mail Technology & PostPilot Deep Dive (39:03–86:45)

Michael Epstein Interview

Origins & Unique Value of PostPilot

• PostPilot was built by e-comm operators frustrated with clunky legacy direct mail.
• Their ambition: Build “Klaviyo for Direct Mail”—integrated, fast, easy, and data-rich.
  • Native integrations with Shopify and Klaviyo
  • Real-time dashboards, easy-to-launch campaigns, no minimums, and dedicated account management.

Next-Generation Targeting

• PostPilot offers thousands of customer attributes for targeting (e.g., expectant mothers by trimester, shoppers’ lifestyle and brand preferences).
  • Quote: “We’re able to target expectant mothers in their third trimester. That's the level of data that we have.” – Michael ([46:02])
• Performance and targeting improve as the data set grows, but data is never shared across brands.

Attribution & Measurement Innovations

• Real-time, first-party data matchback with live dashboards.
• Native incrementality/holdout testing—measure true lift, not just coupon codes or raw ROAS.
  • Coupon redemption underestimates true incremental performance by 3–7x!
  • Quote: “Incrementality and holdout testing is really the gold standard to measure the isolated impact.” – Michael ([54:04])
• Guidance: Never run direct mail without proper incrementality measurement.

Activation Tactics by Brand Size

• Start with retention/loyalty (win-backs, reactivation), then move up-funnel (prospect via matched emails, abandoned carts, high-AOV lists).
• Exclude active email/SMS engagers if desired (dynamic suppression lists via Klaviyo integration).
  • But best practice: Test both, as often email/SMS-engaged segments are also highly incremental for direct mail ([61:04]).
• For larger brands: Full-funnel prospecting (acquisition) with robust lookalike and intent signals, particularly effective if AOV is >$65 and there is baseline brand awareness.

Best Practices for Format & Iteration

• Test direct mail size: 6x9” cards outperformed 4x6” in most data, but catalog/trifold formats can work best for colder or more complex audiences. Cost/ROI should be compared by segment.
  • Quote: “Maybe they just don’t need that larger format, and you can spend less and get a higher incremental ROAS.” – Michael ([75:24])

7. Direct Mail for Acquisition (79:11–84:18)

• Direct mail can also work for acquisition, especially using lookalike models and intent signals (e.g., recent buyers, interests).
• Best for established brands with higher AOVs and some brand awareness.
  • Quote: “It actually does work well...Typically for brands that are a bit larger and have a bit higher AOV...not the very first touch point.” – Michael ([80:25])

8. Actionable Takeaways and Recommendations

• Start retention-focused, use all channels (email, SMS, ads, direct mail) with smart sequencing and personalization.
• Use true incremental testing (holdouts!) to optimize segments and avoid false positives.
• Don’t be afraid to mail engaged users—omni-touchpoint is highly effective for high-value segments.
• Plan and test early (not just for BFCM/holidays); build repeatable, anticipated campaigns.
• Use direct mail for brand building (catalogs, lifestyle content)—more than just discount cards.
• For PostPilot: Start with free reports and segmentation benchmarking; strategic guidance is part of the platform.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Direct mail is almost like the index funds of marketing...If you can get it to perform, there’s a lot of scale.” – Cody ([14:27])
• “You’re never going to have the attention that you do in this first 7-day period...So we also need to build cross-category awareness.” – Connor ([10:41])
• “Incrementality and holdout testing is really the gold standard to measure the isolated impact.” – Michael ([54:04])
• “No one is looking forward to getting another Facebook ad. But you could make people anticipate their next catalog or mailer.” – Connor ([35:56])
• “Testing multiple cohorts and being ruthless about keeping what’s incremental and cutting what’s not—that’s our direct mail playbook.” – Michael ([59:49])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Beanstalk Recap & Gary Vaynerchuk: 00:00–03:05
• Multichannel Retention Strategy: 06:45–13:03
• Direct Mail Approaches & Results: 13:03–27:23
• Brand Catalog Show & Tell: 27:23–34:27
• PostPilot Deep Dive (Tech & Measurement): 39:03–59:35
• Incrementality in Direct Mail: 54:04–61:43
• Direct Mail Tactics by Brand Stage: 63:25–77:44
• Acquisition via Direct Mail: 79:11–84:18
• Final Guidance & PostPilot Call to Action: 84:18–86:45

Conclusion

This episode is a must-listen for e-commerce marketers interested in maximizing retention and exploring direct mail. The conversation blends tactical advice, live data, practical brand examples, and vendor inside baseball—all with the enthusiastic, honest tone that Marketing Operators fans expect.

Recommended Actions:

1. Audit your post-purchase and cross-sell flows—are you as granular and sequenced as you could be?
2. Experiment with direct mail for win-back and engaged segments, using true incrementality/holdout testing.
3. If using PostPilot, leverage account management and audience data to benchmark and improve.
4. Don’t wait for Q4 to test—find your incremental cohorts now for compounding results.
5. Think of direct mail not just as direct response, but as a premium, brand-building and anticipation-building channel.
6. Reflect on Cody’s analogy: Is your marketing mix balanced between “day trading” and “index funds”?

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