A fuel efficiency rollback

Summary

Podcast Summary: Marketplace Morning Report — "A Fuel Efficiency Rollback"

Date: December 3, 2025
Host: David Brancaccio
Featured Guest: Gary Kalnin, CEO & Co-founder of Cislunar
Segment Reporter: Henry Epp

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Episode Overview

In this brisk episode, Marketplace Morning Report covers two main stories:

1. The rollback of fuel efficiency standards for cars and trucks announced by the Trump administration, reversing previous Biden-era requirements.
2. The budding possibilities of a lunar economy with a spotlight on Cislunar, a Colorado-based company aiming to turn space debris into resources and develop infrastructure for future operations on the Moon.

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Segment 1: Rollback of Fuel Efficiency Standards

[01:25 – 02:56]

Key Discussion Points:

• Trump Administration’s Announcement: President Trump is set to announce weaker federal fuel efficiency standards compared to those set by Biden, which required fleet averages of 50 miles per gallon within five years.
• Shift in Enforcement:
  • Over the summer, Congress (now Republican-controlled) eliminated fines for carmakers who do not meet efficiency standards.
  • David Brancaccio contextualizes the political cycle: "When Republicans are in the White House, they lower fuel efficiency requirements. When Democrats are in, they raise them." [01:48]
• Other Rollbacks:
  • Elimination of consumer tax credits for electric vehicles.
  • Overturning California’s right to set its own, higher standards.

Notable Quote:

• Henry Epp: "This federal rule takes into account each automaker's entire fleet of vehicles. If the average fuel efficiency across all their cars and trucks don't reach the standard, they get fined. But...Congress may a crucial change. They zeroed out the fines so carmakers that fall short don't have to pay anything." [01:48]

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Segment 2: Building a Lunar Economy — Interview with Cislunar's CEO Gary Kalnin

[04:53 – 08:55]

The Potential of Moon Resources and Space Debris

• Helium-3 as a Market Opportunity:

  • Brancaccio introduces helium-3 — a rare but highly valuable isotope on Earth, abundant on the Moon, and potentially useful for quantum computing. “At a market price of $20 million a kilo, it might make economic sense to harvest the stuff from up there.” [04:53]

• Cislunar’s Vision and Operations:

  • The company focuses on converting mined lunar resources and space debris into materials for space manufacturing.
  • Gary Kalnin: “Somebody needs to be the steel mills in the, you know, in the lunar economy and in the space economy in general.” [05:46]

Recycling Space Debris for Manufacturing and Propulsion

• Space Debris as Feedstock:

  • Kalnin details their early choice to use existing spacecraft and debris as initial sources of metal, enhancing the efficiency of future lunar manufacturing.
  • “...if we use recycled landers and other metals that we bring that are already refined, we actually really enhance the efficiency of the process…” [06:06]

• Turning Junk into Fuel:

  • “We've done a study early on about how do we turn space debris into metal propellant fuel for an electric propulsion system...you could turn space debris into Delta V, as they call it in the industry, which is how you get around in space.” [06:44]

Business Challenges and Immediate Applications

• Profitability and Staying Alive:

  • Brancaccio asks about the challenge of making the business model work before the lunar economy materializes.
  • "You have to stay alive in the medium term. Now, that could be grants, but along the way, you've developed technology that might have a more immediate practical effect..." [07:10]

• Dual-Use Technology:

  • Kalnin describes a power conversion box they developed — originally for processing lunar metals — which serves immediate commercial needs in the broader satellite and space industry.
  • “Every time we make power, we have to process it, transform it so that it can do whatever job it's going to do. We make the box that does that...” [07:31]

State and Future of the Lunar Economy

• Lunar Economy is Coming:
  • Brancaccio probes: "There isn't a lunar economy yet, isn't that fair to say?..."
  • Kalnin responds with optimism: "Not yet, but it is right around the corner...what's coming next is taking it from every mission brings all the things with it to an idea where we have a diverse lunar economy...just like you do on Earth.” [08:19]

Notable Quotes:

• Gary Kalnin: “What's coming next is taking it from every mission brings all the things with it to an idea where we have a diverse lunar economy, where you get there and then you tap into the services that are available, just like you do on Earth.” [08:19]

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Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

• On Political Cycles and Regulation:

  • David Brancaccio: “When Republicans are in the White House, they lower fuel efficiency requirements. When Democrats are in, they raise them.” [01:48]

• On Innovation from Necessity:

  • Gary Kalnin: “The grants are essential...but one of those programs, we learned that the power system we had built for processing metal was something we could use for the entire space industry.” [07:31]

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Key Timestamps

• 01:25 — Host introduces the fuel efficiency rollback and brings in Henry Epp’s report.
• 01:48 — Henry Epp breaks down the fuel efficiency rule changes.
• 04:53 — Introduction to possibilities for helium-3 and the lunar economy, beginning of Gary Kalnin interview.
• 05:46 — Kalnin discusses turning lunar-mined material into something useful.
• 06:06 — Recycling space debris and improving process efficiency.
• 06:44 — Transforming debris into propulsion fuel.
• 07:31 — How Cislunar’s power tech offers practical benefits right now.
• 08:19 — The emerging structure of a real lunar economy.

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Tone and Language Note

The episode maintains an informative, forward-looking tone, balancing policy analysis with a sense of innovation and entrepreneurial optimism for space commercialization. Kalnin’s responses combine technical insight with big-picture vision, aligning with the speculative, pioneering mood of the segment.

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Conclusion

This episode offers a concise update on U.S. environmental policy shifts and a fascinating look at practical steps and challenges in building a new lunar economy. Through regulation analysis and a deep-dive on space resource entrepreneurship, listeners are left considering not only the politics of Earthbound transportation but also the emerging infrastructure for humanity’s next frontier.

Transcript

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[David Brancaccio]

Would you risk your life going to the moon? Would you risk your business? I'm David Brancaccio in Los Angeles. First multiple published reports say President Trump today will announce weaker fuel efficiency standards for cars and trucks. This would reverse a Biden era requirement that fleets get to 50 miles per gallon within about five years, Marketplace's Henry Epp reports.

[Henry Epp]

This federal rule takes into account each automaker's entire fleet of vehicles. If the average fuel efficiency across all their cars and trucks don't reach the standard, they get fined. But over the summer, the Republican controlled Congress may a crucial change. They zeroed out the fines so carmakers that fall short don't have to pay anything. The Trump administration appears ready to lower the fuel efficiency standard anyway. That's become something of a tradition in the last few decades. When Republicans are in the White House, they lower fuel efficiency requirements. When Democrats are in, they raise them. Trump has eliminated other federal policies this year that had pushed carmakers to build more electric vehicles, including consumer tax credits and a rule that allowed California to set its own higher fuel efficiency standard. I'm Henry Epp for Marketplace.

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[David Brancaccio]

There is an isotope called helium 3 that could cool new quantum computers. It's rare on Earth, plentiful on the moon at a market price of $20 million a kilo, it might make economic sense to harvest the stuff from up there. This week on the Marketplace morning, multiple views on an emerging moon economy, how it might work, and whether it's even a good idea. Today, one of the companies that's working on both recycling space refuse into useful stuff and making units that could help power the lunar economy. It's called Cislunar, and its co founder and CEO Gary Kalnin joins us. Good morning.

[Gary Kalnin]

Yeah, thanks for having me. This is great.

[David Brancaccio]

You know, you hear about building railroads on the moon, maybe to pick up stuff that gets mined on the moon. Your Company is doing some thinking about, well, once, once you mined it, what useful things might it be turned into?

[Gary Kalnin]

That's right. So when we look at the economy, thinking about, you know, how could we be on the edge of human expansion into space, There was a gap for, you know, taking those resources and turning them into something manufacturers could use. Somebody needs to be the steel mills in the, you know, in the lunar economy and in the space economy in general.

[David Brancaccio]

You're also in the recycling business. Tell me about that.

[Gary Kalnin]

We realized early on that, you know, there's a lot of spacecraft out there, a lot of space debris. So why don't we go after this space debris as a first feedstock to learn how to do this. And then later on, as we were studying the lunar economy with DARPA and some other companies, we learned that, hey, if we use recycled landers and other metals that we bring that are already refined, we actually really enhance the efficiency of the process of even taking virgin materials and turning them something we can use for manufacturing.

[David Brancaccio]

Yeah, because in orbit there's a lot of junk floating around. Some of it looks just like a spent satellite, Some of it are little annoying bit that can be dangerous.

[Gary Kalnin]

You see that as a possible resource eventually, yeah. We've done a study early on about how do we turn space debris into metal propellant fuel for an electric propulsion system. And so you combine that with our power capability and our furnace capability to manufacture the fuel, and you could turn space debris into Delta V, as they call it in the industry, which is how you get around in space.

[David Brancaccio]

I mean, it's got to be a challenge for a company, right, because some of this stuff won't actually work for a while. And then when's it going to make a profit for somebody? You have to stay alive in the medium term. Now, that could be grants, but along the way, you've developed technology that might have a more immediate practical effect that people might want to buy now.

[Gary Kalnin]

Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, the grants are essential, the SBIR program, critical for our company to get to where we are. But one of those programs, we learned that the power system we had built for processing metal was something we could use for the entire space industry. When you actually transmit information or you do sensing, or you run electric thruster or really anything else on a satellite, you need electricity. And every time we make power, we have to process it, transform it so that it can do whatever job it's going to do. We make the box that does that, that processing from the source. You know, we get that energy coming in and we turn it into the energy coming out that you need to do whatever the job is you want to do.

[David Brancaccio]

There isn't a lunar economy yet, isn't that fair to say? I mean, it's not like there's an active economy on the Moon yet.

[Gary Kalnin]

Not yet, but it is right around the corner. I mean, there, there's a lot of investment going into it. There's a real urgency around government, you know, making sure that we have a position on the Moon for geopolitical reasons. And what's coming next is taking it from every mission brings all the things with it to an idea where we have a diverse lunar economy, where you get there and then you tap into the services that are available, just like you do on Earth. You know, you buy your utilities and you, you have your trash service and you buy your resources or whatever the things are that different specialist companies provide. And that'll be where it gets when we get to a real lunar economy.

[David Brancaccio]

Gary Kalnin is CEO and co founder of a company based in Colorado called Cislunar. Thank you so much.

[Gary Kalnin]

Thank you for having me.

[David Brancaccio]

I also spoke to a Moon economist, and we'll hear later this week from an expert on ethics and technology about the wisdom of all this. Our interviews are [e-mail] and don't miss my pitch about what my hobby, designing and launching big rockets, has taught me about the stock market. That video is on Facebook and Instagram. Marketplace APM is our nickname there in Los Angeles. I'm David Brancaccio with the Marketplace morning report from apm, American Public Media. A moment now to say thank you, Marketplace listeners. Your giving Tuesday support made a real impact in a moment when public media funding has been cut nationwide. Your support keeps Marketplace's independent reporting on the economy accessible for everyone. And if you didn't get a chance to donate, it's always a great time to become a Marketplace investor. Give [e-mail] or click the link in the show notes.