Are Trump's "reciprocal" tariffs legal or not?

Summary

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Marketplace Morning Report

Episode Title: Are Trump’s “reciprocal” tariffs legal or not?
Date: November 3, 2025
Host: David Brancaccio
Guests: Julia Coronado (Economist, Macro Policy Perspectives), William Lee Adams (BBC), Shoshana Walter (The Marshall Project)

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Episode Overview

This episode examines the legal debate over the Trump administration’s use of “reciprocal” tariffs, the broader options the U.S. government has for imposing tariffs, and the implications for trade and government revenue. Additionally, the episode covers major stories including BP’s sale of U.S. shale assets, Exxon Mobil’s threat to exit Europe, and an investigation into the for-profit drug rehab industry with guest Shoshana Walter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Legality of Trump’s Reciprocal Tariffs

[01:31 – 03:23]

• Main Theme: The Supreme Court is examining whether President Trump’s preferred method of imposing “reciprocal” tariffs, by declaring an emergency and using emergency authority, complies with U.S. law.
• Context: Treasury Secretary Scott Besant is confident the administration will prevail in court, but alternative legal avenues exist for imposing tariffs if struck down.

Notable Insights:

• There are several legal frameworks for imposing tariffs beyond emergency powers, including:
  • Section 122 of the Trade Act of 1974
  • Section 338 of the Tariff Act of 1930
  • Congressional authorization (the intended process)
• Congress has been largely inactive in tariff imposition, leaving room for executive action.
• Tariffs are often politicized as correcting trade imbalances and bringing jobs back to the U.S., but they function as import taxes, generating significant government revenue.

Notable Quotes:

• “There are other legal paths to imposing tariffs. If the current legal path, which is based on the US Economy being in a state of emergency, you know, if that is struck down, there are other legal paths to reimpose tariffs through other channels.”
  — Julia Coronado [02:07]

• “The revenue has been growing steadily as they impose more tariffs, not less. And so it’s become quite a temptation for the administration to lean on this as a source of revenues. Even as they say cut corporate taxes, they’re raising taxes through another channel.”
  — Julia Coronado [03:00]

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2. Global Business Headlines

BP’s Divestment of U.S. Shale Gas Assets

[03:25 – 04:26]

• BP is selling U.S. onshore pipeline assets (Permian and Eagle Ford basins) to Sixth Street for $1.5 billion.
• This move is part of a larger $20 billion divestment underway through 2027, designed to cut debt and refocus BP’s portfolio amidst pressure from activist investors.
• Once completed, BP’s BPX Energy will retain majority stakes in some assets but reduce exposure in others.

Notable Quotes:

• “The sale of assets in the Permian and Eagle Ford basins is part of a $20 billion divestment program running until the end of 2027. It's aimed at bringing debt levels down and reviews its oil and gas portfolio.”
  — William Lee Adams [03:34]

Exxon Mobil's Stance on EU Supply Chain Law

[04:26 – 04:50]

• Exxon Mobil warns of a potential withdrawal from Europe if strict EU rules on supply chain scrutiny for human rights and environmental risks are not relaxed.

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3. The Dark Side of the Drug Rehab Industry

Interview with Shoshana Walter, author of "An American Scandal"
[06:30 – 10:01]

• Focuses on the underregulated, often predatory nature of the U.S. rehab industry, a $53 billion sector comprised of a mix of insurance-funded programs, unregulated recovery homes, and medication-assisted treatment centers.
• Data reveal that people frequently go through multiple rehab stints; shockingly, completing a 30-day program may increase the risk of overdose and death in the following year.
• Investigative narratives provide a stark look at the racial and socioeconomic disparities in access and outcomes within the rehab system.

Notable Quotes & Stories:

• “The rehab industry as a whole is a $53 billion industry. You have insurance funded programs, you have totally unregulated recovery homes, and then you have the world of medication assisted treatment.”
  — Shoshana Walter [06:59]

• “Someone who attends a 30 day program and finishes that program is actually much more likely to overdose and die in the year following that treatment program than someone who failed to complete that program at all.”
  — Shoshana Walter [07:26]

• Contrasting stories:

  • April Lee (Black woman from Philadelphia): Could not find treatment, lost children, entered recovery only by getting arrested.
  • Chris (White, middle-class from Louisiana): Court-ordered into forced labor under the guise of rehab, injured, but ultimately granted probation instead of prison.
  • “When April was struggling with her own addiction, she could not find treatment, despite how much her treatment system has grown... And the only way that she could find to get out of it was to get herself arrested.”
    — Shoshana Walter [07:58]
  • “He realized that he would have to work up to 80 hours per week manual labor jobs without pay... when he left the program ... [judge gave him] probation.”
    — Shoshana Walter [08:30]

• The business model incentivizes repeated cycles of rehab, driving up costs and creating a "washing machine" cycle.

  • “Some treatment... a lot of the treatment industry now views this as part of the business model.”
    — Shoshana Walter [09:23]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:31] – Opening discussion: Trump’s tariff powers and Supreme Court case
• [02:07] – Julia Coronado explains alternative legal paths for imposing tariffs
• [03:25] – BP sells U.S. shale gas assets, global market update
• [04:26] – Exxon Mobil’s warning regarding European supply chain laws
• [06:30] – Interview with Shoshana Walter on U.S. drug rehab industry
• [07:26] – Data on rehab outcomes and overdose risks
• [07:58] – Contrasting rehab experiences between Black and white individuals
• [09:23] – The “washing machine” model of rehab and insurance challenges

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Memorable Moments

• Julia Coronado calling out how tariff revenue has grown and provides a backdoor for raising government funds [03:00].
• Shoshana Walter highlighting shocking data about increased overdose risk after completing rehab [07:26].
• The personal stories highlighting racial and class disparities in rehab outcomes [07:58–08:50].

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Tone and Language

The tone of the episode is informative, brisk, and slightly critical, especially when probing the effectiveness and ethics of both U.S. trade policy and the for-profit rehab industry. The language is direct and clear, with the host and guests leaning into data and personal stories to illustrate systemic issues.

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Summary

This Marketplace Morning Report episode dives into the legal and practical realities of how the Trump administration (and future administrations) can impose tariffs, the alternative avenues for doing so regardless of Supreme Court rulings, and the financial/business motivations behind tariff policy. Updates from the energy sector underscore major restructuring by BP and policy challenges for Exxon Mobil. The episode’s centerpiece is a revealing look at America’s rehab industry, uncovering perverse incentives, racial inequities, and a dangerous cycle for patients.

Listeners come away informed on both headline policy debates and deeper, often hidden, systemic challenges shaping the U.S. economy and social services.

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Transcript

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[David Brancaccio]

The Trump team's big tariff toolbox I'm David Brancaccio in Los Angeles. This is the week the Supreme Court hears oral arguments about whether President Trump's preferred method of imposing what he calls reciprocal tariffs is legal or not. It's the strategy of declaring an emergency and then using emergency authority. Treasury Secretary Scott Besant is among those who've said they expect to prevail in the high court. But if they do not get used to it, there are many other ways to apply taxes on stuff from other countries. To start the week, let's consult economist Julia Coronado, founder of Macro Policy Perspectives out of Austin.

[Julia Coronado]

There are other legal paths to imposing tariffs. If the current legal path, which is based on the US Economy being in a state of emergency, you know, if that is struck down, there are other legal paths to reimpose tariffs through other channels.

[David Brancaccio]

Yeah, just looking at the list, Section 122 Trade act of 1974. You don't like that they got Section 338 of the Tariff act of 1930. There's also Congress, the way it's supposed to work, right?

[Julia Coronado]

There's supposed to be a congressional authorization of a tariff, and that's precisely what's before the Supreme Court this week. And Congress certainly has been missing in action on this.

[David Brancaccio]

But you make an important point, which is often the administration casts tariffs as a way to right trade wrongs and bring Job back to America. But it's an import tax and it raises a lot of money to pay for what they want to spend on.

[Julia Coronado]

That's right. The revenue has been growing steadily as they impose more tariffs, not less. And so it's become quite temptation for the administration to lean on this as a source of revenues. Even as they say cut corporate taxes, they're raising taxes through another channel.

[David Brancaccio]

Economist Julia Coronado is also a professor at the University of Texas, Austin. Thank you.

[Julia Coronado]

My pleasure.

[David Brancaccio]

London based BP says it is selling off its US shale gas assets in a $1.5bn deal. The BBC's William Lee Adams has more.

[William Lee Adams]

British energy giant BP is selling stakes in its U.S. onshore pipeline assets to investment firm Sixth street for $1.5 billion. The sale of assets in the Permian and Eagle Ford basins is part of a $20 billion divestment program running until the end of 2027. It's aimed at bringing debt levels down and reviews its oil and gas portfolio. BP has been under pressure from investors. It became the target of activist investors after an ill fated foray into renewables hit profitability. Once the sale is completed, BP's US onshore oil and gas business, BPX Energy, will hold a 51% stake in the Permian assets and 25% in the Eagle Ford assets. The announcement comes ahead of BP's third quarter results announcement on November 4th. I'm William Lee Adams for Marketplace.

[David Brancaccio]

Meanwhile, Exxon Mobil is threatening to pull out of Europe entirely if the EU doesn't loosen up a law that requires firms in the EU to inventory and report human rights and environmental risks throughout their supply chains.

[Shoshana Walter]

Foreign.

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[David Brancaccio]

Liability of drug companies that pushed highly addicted opioid painkillers has been a major story for us here. But today, a new book about the dark side of the drug rehab industry. It's called An American Scandal by investigative reporter Shoshana Walter, who joins us now.

[Shoshana Walter]

Welcome to thanks so much for having me.

[David Brancaccio]

David, give us a sense at least of the lay of the land in the world of rehab, generally for profit, a mixture of big players and small outfits. How does it work?

[Shoshana Walter]

The rehab industry as a whole is a $53 billion industry. You have insurance funded programs, you have totally unregulated recovery homes, and then you have the world of medication assisted treatment.

[David Brancaccio]

Now, I know you have scandal in the title of this, but what do the data tell you about the success or failure of the overall system?

[Shoshana Walter]

On average, people go to rehab multiple times before they enter recovery. Someone who attends a 30 day program and finishes that program is actually much more likely to overdose and die in the year following that treatment program than someone who failed to complete that program at all.

[David Brancaccio]

You follow a number of people on their journeys through rehab, and there's a particularly stark contrast. You have a person who's black, a person who's white, and their experiences are quite different.

[Shoshana Walter]

That's right. One of those people, April Lee, is the mother of three from Philadelphia, who herself grew up with a mother who was addicted to crack cocaine. You know, when April was struggling with her own addiction, she could not find treatment, despite how much her treatment system has grown. Her children were taken from her, she grew worse in her addiction, and the only way that she could find to get out of it was to get herself arrested. And then on the other hand, you have Chris, a young white middle class guy from Louisiana. He was court ordered into a treatment program. When he got there, he realized that he would have to work up to 80 hours per week manual labor jobs without pay. And he rarely received counseling or anything that might be considered treatment. And he was badly injured in the program. And ultimately he left the program and assumed that he would get sentenced to prison and ended up getting a break from the judge who gave him probation.

[David Brancaccio]

You know, let's say there were some policy solutions that could fix bad and dangerous management and abusive programs. There's still the problem of cost, right? Rehab can be very expensive and insurance companies often don't pay the bills at all or don't pay all the bills.

[Shoshana Walter]

The system that we have now is actually fueling these high costs because people are going into rehab, they're completing the program, they're leaving, they're relapsing, and then they're just going back in again. You know, I spoke with a number of treatment company owners who actually referred to this as a, as a cycler, like a washing machine cycle. You go in, you go out, you repeat, and some treatment. A lot of the treatment industry now views this as part of the business model.

[David Brancaccio]

Shoshana Walter is a reporter with the nonprofit newsroom the Marshall Project. She's author of the new book An American Scandal. Thank you very much.

[Shoshana Walter]

Thanks so much for having me.

[David Brancaccio]

We're from APM, American Public Media. This week on Million Bazillion, we cover the spooky, haunting, and downright confusing topic of national debt. Together, you and kids can learn what exactly the national debt is, why some.

[William Lee Adams]

People are worried about it, and who.

[David Brancaccio]

Exactly has to pay for it.

[Shoshana Walter]

Wow, look at those numbers ticking up.

[David Brancaccio]

On the debt scoreboard.

[Shoshana Walter]

Is it at all possible?

[Julia Coronado]

Possible?

[William Lee Adams]

This town is in too much debt. Don't miss this week's episode of Million Bazillion.

[David Brancaccio]

Listen on your favorite podcast.

[Shoshana Walter]

Applause.