Costco wants its tariff money back

Summary

Marketplace Morning Report: "Costco wants its tariff money back"

Date: December 2, 2025
Host: David Brancaccio

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Episode Overview

This episode provides a succinct update on two major business stories:

1. Costco’s lawsuit seeking a refund for Trump-era tariffs, a case now before the Supreme Court, with major implications for U.S. importers.
2. The early development of a "moon economy," highlighting the shift from government-led to commercial space activities, including mining and resource claims, discussed in an interview with economist Matt Weinzierl.

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1. Costco and the Fight for Tariff Refunds

Segment Begins: [01:14]

Key Points and Insights

• Supreme Court Challenge:
  The Supreme Court recently heard cases challenging the legality of tariffs imposed by President Trump. The plaintiffs range from small businesses to major companies like Costco, Revlon, and Kawasaki.
• Costco’s Lawsuit:
  Costco is suing the federal government to ensure they can get their tariff payments back if the court rules the tariffs illegal. The company asserts there is no guarantee of automatic repayment without litigation.
• Financial Stakes:
  Over $100 billion in tariffs have been paid by U.S. firms in 2025 alone. Costco claims continuous tariff payments but hasn't publicly stated the total amount at stake.
• Skepticism in the Court:
  Several conservative Supreme Court justices showed skepticism toward the administration’s defense of the tariffs.
• Process Uncertainty:
  If the tariffs are overturned, the refund process for affected companies is unclear.
• Timeline:
  A decision could arrive by the end of the year due to the case’s expedited status.

Notable Quotes

• David Brancaccio [01:14]:
  “If a large class of Trump tariffs are ruled illegal, is their money back?...Costco wants a refund. The retail chain is suing the Trump administration to get money back if the tariff strategy doesn’t hold up...”
• Henry Epp [01:42]:
  “Costco says its suit is necessary because there’s no guarantee they’ll be repaid if the court strikes down the tariffs...U.S. firms have paid over $100 billion in tariffs this year.”

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2. Market and Consumer Update

Segment Begins: [02:46]

Key Points

• Market Snapshot:
  • S&P futures up 0.3%
  • Nasdaq futures up 0.4%
• Cyber Monday Recap:
  • Online spending increased by 4.5% from last year, according to Adobe Analytics, but this is less than predicted.
• Inflation Context:
  • September government shutdown delayed retail inflation metrics; most recent annual increase was 3%.

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3. The Emerging Moon Economy

Segment Begins: [05:01]

Key Points and Insights

• No “Moon Economy” Yet—But It’s Coming:
  David Brancaccio introduces the topic of commercial activity and a future economy on the Moon, featuring an interview with economist Matt Weinzierl from Harvard Business School.
• Why Go to the Moon?
  • National prestige and security remain core motivators.
  • New focus: Profit, mining lunar soil, and services for other lunar customers.
  • Notable resource areas: Water ice and continuous solar exposure are key for future lunar activities.
• Rise of Commercial Space:
  • Companies like Interlune have contracts (e.g., for Helium-3 mining), indicating increased private sector involvement.
  • Unlike earlier government-centric exploration, current efforts mix government and commercial interests.
• Commercialization vs. Privatization:
  Weinzierl clarifies that space policy is about commercialization, not full privatization—the government remains a key customer but actively encourages companies to seek additional markets and services.
• Moon Resources—Regolith and Mining:
  • Moon dust (regolith) is being reconsidered for commercial use; mining the Moon, long a sci-fi concept, is now legally possible due to recent changes in U.S. policy.
  • U.S. law since 2015 allows American companies to claim property rights over space resources, a controversial move mirrored by other nations.
  • The Outer Space Treaty (1967) prevents sovereignty claims but is vague on commercial resource rights.

Notable Quotes

• Matt Weinzierl [05:47]:
  “Some companies are raising money to go actually do things on the moon for profit, whether it’s mining the lunar soil or providing services to other customers on the lunar surface...the big change in space over the last couple decades is this rising commercialization.”
• Matt Weinzierl [06:46]:
  “...this is not really about the privatization about the space economy. It’s really what we like to talk about as the commercialization. So it’s not that the government’s getting out of space. Government is still likely to be the main customer, especially for risky and difficult things like creating a permanent presence on the moon.”
• Matt Weinzierl [08:16]:
  “The outer space treaty...is very clear that countries cannot claim sovereignty over any territory in space or any celestial object. But it’s not as clear on whether companies or countries can claim a property right over resources in space. And the United States unilaterally passed legislation in 2015 giving US companies the right to claim just such property rights.”

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4. Closing Notes

Segment Begins: [09:10]

• Teaser for tomorrow’s coverage: A company working on power and recycling for the Moon economy.
• Personal aside: Brancaccio reveals his hobby as a high-power rocketeer and invites listeners to watch his "little theory of rockets and the stock market" on Marketplace’s social media.

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Memorable and Notable Moments

• [01:14, Brancaccio]:
  Framing the key legal and economic stakes for importers like Costco, and the unusually large amount of tariff revenue in play.
• [06:26, Brancaccio]:
  Highlighting the arrival of private contracts (like Interlune and Helium-3 mining) as evidence of commercial ambition on the moon.
• [08:16, Weinzierl]:
  Discussion of legal gray areas in space resource rights, signaling upcoming international debates as lunar mining becomes a real possibility.

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:14] — Supreme Court tariffs case and Costco’s lawsuit
• [02:46] — Market and Cyber Monday update
• [05:01] — The “moon economy” & commercial space interview with Matt Weinzierl
• [08:16] — Controversial U.S. law on space resource claims
• [09:10] — Closing notes and segment previews

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For listeners who missed the episode: This summary captures the core business and economic stories—legal battles over tariffs with potential billions at stake, and the dawn of commercial ventures on the Moon—as well as the larger trends shaping these developments. The tone remains conversational yet informative, blending legal, financial, and speculative economic insights in a quick, news-driven format typical of Marketplace.

Transcript

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[David Brancaccio]

If a large class of Trump tariffs are ruled illegal, is their money back? I'm David Brancaccio in Los Angeles. If the Supreme Court rules President Trump's tariffs are illegal, it could go either way. Costco or wants a refund the retail chain is suing the Trump administration to get money back if the tariff strategy doesn't hold up tariffs or taxes that have been pouring into the US treasury to pay for other spending marketplaces, Henry Epp reports.

[Henry Epp]

The lawsuits that brought President Trump's tariffs before the Supreme Court last month were led by small businesses and Democratic state attorneys general. But now it's bigger companies, including Costco, that are suing to make sure they're in line for a refund. So also suing are cosmetics company Revlon and motorcycle manufacturer Kawasaki Motors. Costco says its suit is necessary because there's no guarantee they'll be repaid if the court strikes down the tariffs. And several justices in the court's conservative majority appeared skeptical of the administration's arguments last month. If the justices determine the tariffs were imposed illegally and companies need to be refunded, it's not clear how that process would work. US firms have paid over $100 billion in tariffs this year, according to Bloomberg. Costco said in suit that it's been paying the duties quote on a continuous basis, but did not specify exactly how much it's suing to be refunded for all of the tariffs it's paid, plus interest. The Supreme Court has fast tracked the tariff case. The court could rule as soon as the end of the year. I'm Henry App for Marketplace Markets S&P.

[David Brancaccio]

Futures are up 3/10 of 1% Nasdaq futures are up 4/10 of a percent now, according to Adobe Analytics Online, spending on what's dubbed Cyber Monday yesterday up 4.5% from a year earlier. That's less than than predicted. When we last got retail inflation data September because of the government shutdown, prices had risen 3% in a year. Just a modest jump then in spending for yesterday in real terms. If these preliminary numbers stick.

[Odoo Advertiser]

This podcast is supported by Odoo. Some say Odoo business management software is like fertilizer for businesses because the simple, efficient software promotes growth. Others say Odoo is like a magic Beanstalk because it scales with you and is magically affordable. And some describe Odoo's programs for manufacturing, accounting and more as building blocks for creating a custom software suite. So Odoo is fertilizer Magic Beanstalk building blocks for business Odoo exactly what businesses need. Sign [e-mail] that's o d o o.com.

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[David Brancaccio]

We left footprints, flags and flotsam and jetsam on the moon. But something we did not leave is an economy. Private companies and governments are now hard at work to change that. This week on the Marketplace Morning Report here multiple views on an emerging Moon economy, how it might work, and if it's even A good idea. We'll launch today with Matt Weinziel. He's an economist who's also senior Associate Dean for Faculty Development and Research at the Harvard Business School. He's co author of Space to Unlocking the final economic frontier. Dr. Weinziel, welcome.

[Matt Weinzierl]

Well, hello, David. It's great to be with you. Thanks for having me on.

[David Brancaccio]

So there's a space economy that's taking off, as it were, burgeoning, but there's no moon economy yet. Look like the moon's going to get one, you think?

[Matt Weinzierl]

There are certainly reasons to go to the moon that go back to national prestige, national security, some of the reasons we've always gone to space. There are some particular areas of the moon that are particularly valuable for. For doing more things in space, which is part of what we're trying to do. Those areas have water ice or continuous exposure to the sun for solar energy. But the new thing, and maybe part of what you're getting at, is that some companies are raising money to go actually do things on the moon for profit, whether it's mining the lunar soil or providing services to other customers on the lunar surface. And that's really what's the big change in space over the last couple decades, is this rising commercialization.

[David Brancaccio]

Yeah, it's. Oh, there's a company called Interlune that has a contract to deliver three precious liters of Helium 3. So, I mean, that starts to sound like mining, but we're already talking private sector here. This won't be like the people who got to the moon in the first place with humans. The US Government ran that program.

[Matt Weinzierl]

Yes, that's right. And it's actually a pretty nuanced story. And so I think it's important maybe for your listeners, too, to note that this is not really about the privatization, about the space economy. It's really what we. We like to talk about as the commercialization. So it's not that the government's getting out of space. Government is still likely to be the main customer, especially for risky and difficult things like creating a permanent presence on the moon. But what is interesting is that they've brought in a whole set of market forces to those relationships. And as part of that, the government's been encouraging companies that help provide the public services in space to also develop commercial customers on the side.

[David Brancaccio]

What they found up there was a lot of moon dust, it's called regolith, that's not in short supply on the Moon. And there are companies looking at if you could turn it into something valuable, what might be done with it.

[Matt Weinzierl]

That's right. And I think the general lesson there, too is that as we open up these possibilities, ideas come from sort of everywhere. That's part of the beauty of the market. You get startups and their backers willing to take long shot bets on ideas that might seem sort of impractical. But, you know, mining the moon, mining asteroids, this is an idea humans have had for as long as we've been going to space. It is now legally acceptable as well, based on some relatively recent US Law. So it might be in our future sooner than we would expect.

[David Brancaccio]

US Law. I mean, there would be critics who would say, do we get to decide as Americans?

[Matt Weinzierl]

The Governing Space Treaty the governing international law for space is called the Outer Space Treaty, passed in 1967 and is very clear that countries cannot claim sovereignty over any territory in space or any celestial object. But it's not as clear on whether companies or countries can claim a property right over resources in space. And the United States unilaterally passed legislation in 2015 giving US companies the right to claim just such property rights. And that, of course, was controversial and probably remains controversial among many. But other countries have adopted similar legislation. And we'll see, of course, once people actually do start mining these resources, how that all plays out.

[David Brancaccio]

Matt Weinzerl is an economist and senior associate dean for faculty development and Research at the Harvard Business School and co author of the book Space to Unlocking the Final Economic Frontier. Professor, thank you.

[Matt Weinzierl]

Well, thank you so much, David. What a pleasure to be with you.

[David Brancaccio]

Tomorrow we'll meet a company working on power and recycling for the moon economy. And tangentially related, while some people do fishing or crochet, I'm a high power rocketeer, certified level 2 by the national association of Rocketry. Now, in a new video, I explain my little theory of rockets and the stock market. You can go to Marketplace APM on either Facebook or Instagram to see, among other things, one of the most ignominious rocket failures in Los Angeles. I'm David Brancaccio, Marketplace Morning report from apm, American Public Media.

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