Federal job cuts lead to a black market boom ... for ants

Summary

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Marketplace Morning Report

Episode: Federal job cuts lead to a black market boom ... for ants

Date: September 4, 2025
Host: Sabri Benishore (in for David Brancaccio)

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Episode Overview

This episode unpacks two major stories shaping U.S. economic and regulatory landscapes: President Trump's move to reshape the Federal Reserve with a controversial nominee, and the surprising surge in the illegal ant trade, which has boomed in the wake of federal job cuts in science and agriculture. Wired senior writer Kate Nibs explains how diminished government oversight is fueling a black market with real environmental and economic risks.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. President Trump’s Nominee for the Federal Reserve (00:59–02:54)

Guest: Nancy Marshall Genzer, Marketplace

• Stephen Myron’s Background:

  • Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers at the White House
  • Former senior strategist at Hudson Bay Capital
  • Senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute

• Myron’s Qualifications:

  • Advises Trump on “full employment and stable prices”—the Fed’s core mandate (01:55)
  • Emphasizes his market experience and understanding of Fed influence on borrowing

• Independence of the Federal Reserve:

  • Myron claims he will “preserve the Fed’s independence”
  • Contrary to this, in a Manhattan Institute essay, he argued that the president should be able to “remove Fed officials, quote, at will”—raising alarms as Trump attempts to fire Fed Governor Lisa Cook (02:29–02:52)

Memorable Quote:

“Myron wrote the president should be able to remove Fed officials, quote, at will. That opinion is expected to get some attention today, especially considering that President Trump is now trying to fire Fed Governor Lisa Cook.”
— Nancy Marshall Genzer (02:35)

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2. Supreme Court Case on Presidential Tariffs (02:55–04:06)

• Context: The Trump administration asks the Supreme Court to uphold the legality of several tariffs after lower courts challenged presidential authority to impose them.
• Potential Economic Impact:
  • Billions in refunds may be required if struck down
  • Case does not affect tariffs on some products (e.g., steel, aluminum, pharmaceuticals), which have clearer legal standing
  • Supreme Court arguments expected early November

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3. Federal Job Cuts and the Ant Black Market Boom (04:06–07:34)

Guest: Kate Nibs, Senior Writer at Wired

• Connection Between Federal Cuts & Illicit Ant Trade:
  • US Department of Agriculture staffing cuts hit entomologists and pest control experts
  • Reduced oversight emboldens black market activity, especially trading invasive or exotic ants

Insightful Explanation:

“A lot of people who were cut from the USDA were really prestigious entomologists, ... within the ant black market that no one is really paying attention. And so the results might unfortunately be, for all of us, rise in invasive species...”
— Kate Nibs (04:12)

• Two “Wings” of the Ant Black Market:
  1. Exotic, Invasive Ants (smaller group):
     • Ants not native to or allowed in the U.S.—potentially devastating ecological and economic consequences
  2. Domestic Sales Without Permits (majority):
     • Many sellers on platforms like eBay and Amazon ignore required cross-state sales permits
     • Often unintentional illegal activity, but still fuels unregulated movement of ants

Quote:

“A large percentage of ... the ants that you see for sale on platforms like eBay or Amazon are being sold by people who probably haven’t gotten the correct permits and are thus participating in the black market.”
— Kate Nibs (04:46)

• Risks of Invasive Species:
  • Ants can cause electrical damage and present public health threats (venomous/bite risks)
  • Loss of governmental enforcement heightens potential for environmental collapse

Quote:

“In states where invasive ant species have shown up, there have been situations where ... the ants will chew through electrical wires and cause a lot of damage... there’s like a huge public health implication if the ants are venomous or bite or otherwise harm people...”
— Kate Nibs (05:35)

• Worsening Trend Following Job Cuts:
  • Historically, regulation was already weak; now, with job cuts, individuals and foreign collectors are more aggressive
  • “Wild, wild west” mentality about enforcement (06:22–06:53)

Quote:

“Because people in the community are aware of the cuts, they’re not really trying to get permits anymore. ... there’s some people from outside of the United States who are actually now coming into the United States and collecting ants and ... selling them internationally because they perceive it to just be sort of a wild, wild west.”
— Kate Nibs (06:22)

• Broader Implications:
  • Ants are a “signal for this wider collapse in enforcement in protecting our environment from ... invasive species”
  • Diminished capacity to prevent poaching, invasive pests, and broader biosecurity threats

Quote:

“Even though ants seem like such a niche thing, they are sort of a signal for this wider collapse and enforcement in protecting our environment from invasive species.”
— Kate Nibs (07:13)

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “Myron wrote the president should be able to remove Fed officials, quote, at will...”
  — Nancy Marshall Genzer (02:35)

• “A large percentage of ... the ants that you see for sale on platforms like eBay or Amazon are being sold by people who probably haven’t gotten the correct permits and are thus participating in the black market.”
  — Kate Nibs (04:46)

• “It’s like obviously a niche concern, but the potential threat is actually pretty serious.”
  — Kate Nibs (05:35)

• “Even though ants seem like such a niche thing, they are sort of a signal for this wider collapse and enforcement in protecting our environment from invasion, invasive species.”
  — Kate Nibs (07:13)

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Important Segments by Timestamp

• 00:59–02:54 — Trump’s Fed nominee: background, views, and implications
• 02:55–04:06 — Presidential tariffs legal battle and business stakes
• 04:06–07:34 — Federal staffing cuts fueling a boom in illicit ant trade: mechanics, risks, and big-picture consequences

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Tone and Style

The conversation seamlessly blends sharp economic analysis with a dry sense of humor and urgency. While the ant market topic sounds quirky on the surface, both host and guest stress its real-world gravity, situating it within broader regulatory and environmental breakdowns.

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Summary

This episode delivers a brisk, insightful update on consequential federal moves—in monetary policy and biosecurity regulation. It unpacks how high-level political nominations could erode central bank independence, while seemingly obscure federal staffing cuts are opening the floodgates to environmental and economic risks via the illicit ant trade. Beneath the surface, it’s a story about the hidden consequences when regulatory oversight falters.

Transcript

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[Sabri Benishore]

O.Com how President Trump Might Reshape the Federal Reserve From Marketplace, I'm Sabri Benishore in for David Brancaccio. President Trump has been relentless in attacking the country's central bank, and he now has his first chance at shaping it. He's nominated Stephen Myron, one of his advisors, to serve on the Fed's Board of Governors, where Myron could vote on such things as interest rate policy. The Senate Banking Committee is holding a hearing on this later this morning. Marketplace's Nancy Marshall Genzer has the details. Morning, Nancy.

[Nancy Marshall Genzer]

Good morning.

[Sabri Benishore]

So tell us about Myron. Who is he? Where did he come from?

[Nancy Marshall Genzer]

Yeah, he's currently chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers at the White House. He was also a senior strategist at the investment firm Hudson Bay Capital, and he was a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute.

[Sabri Benishore]

What does Myron say about his qualifications for the job of Fed governor?

[Nancy Marshall Genzer]

Well, in Myron's opening statement today, he says part of his current job is to advise President Trump on achieving full employment and stable prices, which is the Fed's mandate. He says the Council of Economic Advisors and the Fed share common goals. He also says his time in the markets gave him firsthand experience in the substantial sway the Fed holds over the ability to borrow money.

[Sabri Benishore]

What does Mr. Myron have to say about Fed independence? I mean, considering the fact that President Trump is putting all this pressure on the central bank to lower interest rates?

[Nancy Marshall Genzer]

Aaron Myron says he intends to preserve the Fed's independence. But in an essay for the Manhattan Institute last year, Myron wrote the president should be able to remove Fed officials, quote, at will. That opinion is expected to get some attention today, especially considering that President Trump is now trying to fire Fed Governor Lisa Cook.

[Sabri Benishore]

All right, thank you, Nancy.

[Nancy Marshall Genzer]

You're welcome.

[Sabri Benishore]

The Trump administration has asked the Supreme Court to uphold the legality of the president's tariffs. Two lower courts so far have found the president does not have the authority to impose many of them. If these tariffs were to be struck down, the government may have to refund billions to businesses that paid them. This appeal would affect country specific tariffs, but would not affect tariffs on certain products like state steel, aluminum, or pharmaceuticals, which are based on more clear legal authority. The administration is asking the Supreme Court to take the case on a fast track basis. Arguments would be in early November. There are black markets for a lot of things, from drugs to data. Also for ants. Yeah, ants and businesses booming. Kate Nibs is a senior writer at Wired, where she recently wrote about the connection between federal staffing cuts and the rise in the illicit ant trade. Hi, Kate.

[Kate Nibs]

Thanks so much for having me.

[Sabri Benishore]

So, federal staffing cuts and ant smuggling. Please explain.

[Kate Nibs]

Yeah, not the two things that you think of off the top of your head, but they go together in a big way because a lot of people who were cut from the USDA were really prestigious entomologists, and some of them worked on pest control. Some of them have been hired back. But there's just a sense within the ant black market that no one is really paying attention. And so the results might unfortunately be, for all of us, rise in invasive species unleashed upon the United States.

[Sabri Benishore]

What does the illicit ant trade look like?

[Kate Nibs]

So I think there are two distinct wings of the illicit ant trade. There's a smaller group of people who are trading exotic ants that are really not supposed to be in the United States that if they were let loose in certain states, they could really wreak havoc in the larger ecosystem. Then there's a much larger group of people who are trading ants sort of accidentally. People actually need permits to sell ants between states. So a large percentage of the amount of the ants that you see for sale on platforms like ebay or Amazon are being sold by people who probably haven't gotten the correct permits and are thus participating in the black market.

[Sabri Benishore]

And of course, I mean, the risk of playing fast and loose with, you know, a potential invasive species is there's economic damage there, potentially.

[Kate Nibs]

Oh, yes. In states where invasive ant species have shown up, there have been situations where like the ants will chew through electrical, electrical wires and cause a lot of damage in like construction and just people's residences. And then of course there's like a huge public health implication if the ants are venomous or bite or otherwise harm people if they come in contact with them. It's like obviously a niche concern, but the potential threat is actually pretty serious.

[Sabri Benishore]

Yeah. Now, based on your reporting, it seems like the black market and trade like, was not particularly strictly regulated before the Trump administration. So what's happening that would allow it to sort of explode, as you're observing?

[Kate Nibs]

Yeah, so this is definitely a situation where we didn't really have it under control to begin with. And because people in the community are aware of the cuts, they're not really trying to get permits anymore. And they're also apparently going out and collecting queens and selling them more aggressively. And a lot of my sources told me that there's some people from outside of the United States who are actually now coming into the United States and collecting ants and then selling them internationally because they perceive it to just be sort of a wild, wild west.

[Sabri Benishore]

I mean, ultimately this is really about more than ants. Do you think that the US's ability to control poached animals, invasive animals, invasive plants, the pests they bring, all the biological threats to the US agriculture system and environment, has that been eroded, do you think?

[Kate Nibs]

Based on my conversations with people who were in positions where they were trying to do this work and now aren't, yes. And it's scary. It genuinely is scary. Even though ants seem like such a niche thing, they are sort of a signal for this wider collapse and enforcement in protecting our environment from invasion, invasive species.

[Sabri Benishore]

Kate Nibs is a senior writer at Wired. Thank you so much.

[Kate Nibs]

Thank you.

[Sabri Benishore]

In New York, I'm Sabri Benishore with the Marketplace Morning Report from apm American Public Media.

[Maggie Smith]

Poetry has the power to connect our inner universe and the outer world. I'm Maggie Smith, poet and host of the Slowdown, a podcast for From American Public Media. Each weekday, find time to take a breather from your to do list or doom scrolling for that matter, and take in a moment of reflection with a hand picked poem. Listen to the Slowdown wherever you get podcasts.