Financial data clashes and what it means for Zelle, Venmo, and more

Summary

Marketplace Morning Report

Episode: Financial data clashes and what it means for Zelle, Venmo, and more
Date: December 22, 2025
Host: Sabri Ben-Achour (in for David Brancaccio)

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Episode Overview

This episode explores two key financial topics impacting individuals and businesses:

• The record rise in gold prices amid global instability and fluctuating economic data.
• The debate over consumer access to financial data and how new regulatory changes could affect popular payment apps like Zelle, Venmo, PayPal, and others.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Gold Prices Surge Amid Instability

Guest: Julia Coronado, Founder and President of Macro Policy Perspectives; Professor at UT Austin

• Gold’s Record Rise

  • Gold prices have increased over 66% in the past year, marking the largest jump since 1979.
    Quote:
    "Gold, if current trends keep up, will be up more than 66% in a year. Largest rise since 1979. That's crazy. Why is that happening?"
    — Sabri Ben-Achour [01:25]

• Why the Spike?

  • Gold usually rises due to concerns about instability and the dollar’s reliability.
  • Current geopolitical tensions, such as those involving Venezuela, intensify demand for gold as a safe haven.
  • The U.S. dollar’s role as the world’s reserve currency is being questioned due to U.S. instability.
    Quote:
    "Gold has an extra dose of safe haven status and really has been rallying off and on all year with some force."
    — Julia Coronado [01:38]

• Concerns about the Dollar

  • The U.S., usually seen as a global bulwark of stability, is facing credibility issues.
  • Geopolitical events (e.g., Venezuela oil tanker seizures) contribute to global anxiety and a flight to safety.
    Quote:
    "We are not a bulwark of stability. You know, Venezuela is the latest geopolitical tension causing a flight to safety."
    — Julia Coronado [02:03]

• Economic Data Uncertainty

  • Recent economic indicators (inflation, jobs) were "messy" and incomplete due to data collection delays.
  • Labor market appears soft and inflation may be understated due to timing of data collection during high-discount periods (Black Friday) and missing months. Quote:
    "The labor market is definitely soft and...they were missing October, and some of the assumptions they made basically assumed zero inflation in October. Which of course is probably an understatement of the reality."
    — Julia Coronado [02:51, 03:28]

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2. Fight Over Financial Data Access & Potential Impact on Payment Apps

Guest: Steve Baumes, Founder and President of Elan Advocacy; Executive Director, Financial Data and Technology Association

• Background of the Rule

  • Under the Biden administration, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) required banks to share consumer financial data (with consumer permission) to enable use of third-party financial apps (Venmo, Cash App, Google Pay, etc.).
  • Under the Trump administration, potential reversal would allow banks to refuse or to charge for this access.

• Implications if Rule Changes

  • If access is restricted or comes at a cost, consumers might lose the ability to use these apps, or see costs rise. Quote:
    "Potentially, you stop being able to use these apps altogether or they become significantly more expensive than what your bank provides you today."
    — Steve Baumes [06:51]

• Political and Regulatory Shift

  • The Trump administration originally initiated the rule, supporting consumer data-sharing.
  • The shift in attitude appears politically motivated, signaling possible amendments rather than a complete reversal. Quote:
    "My view is...if something was done during the Biden admin, it must be bad. And so...this is a retrenchment where the...Trump administration...said, well actually maybe we just want to amend it and tweak it."
    — Steve Baumes [07:10]

• Banks’ Position and Industry Competition

  • Banks object to mandatory free data-sharing, preferring to charge for consumer data access.
  • They also see payment apps as competitors, wishing to retain control over payment technology and customer relationships. Quote:
    "They didn't like that they were required to allow you as a consumer to share your data at no charge...They want to be able to charge you to share that data."
    — Steve Baumes [07:59]

• The Consumer’s Right to Financial Choice

  • The debate centers on whether consumers should have the freedom to choose any financial provider, not just their primary bank. Quote:
    "This is about whether you as a consumer should have the right in the free market to choose a financial provider, regardless of whether it's your bank or somebody else."
    — Steve Baumes [08:24]

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Gold’s Surge:
  "Gold has an extra dose of safe haven status and really has been rallying off and on all year with some force."
  — Julia Coronado [01:38]

• On Economic Data Unreliability:
  "The data was rather messy...I don't think we have a real clear picture of the state of the U.S. economy."
  — Julia Coronado [02:51]

• On Rule Changes Impacting Apps:
  "Potentially, you stop being able to use these apps altogether or they become significantly more expensive than what your bank provides you today."
  — Steve Baumes [06:51]

• On Consumer Financial Data Rights:
  "This is about whether you as a consumer should have the right in the free market to choose a financial provider, regardless of whether it's your bank or somebody else."
  — Steve Baumes [08:24]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:59–03:58]: Gold prices, dollar credibility, and messy economic data (Sabri Ben-Achour and Julia Coronado)
• [05:39–08:47]: Financial data access debate, effects on payment apps, bank opposition, and regulatory dynamics (Sabri Ben-Achour and Steve Baumes)

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Summary Flow & Tone

The tone is informative and conversational, featuring quick, expert-driven explanations of rapidly developing issues affecting consumers and markets. The episode emphasizes how macroeconomic instability translates into personal and practical changes: rising gold as a signal of global anxiety, and regulatory shifts that could affect everyday conveniences like cash transfer apps.

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For those who missed the episode:
This summary covers all important topics—rising gold as a sign of instability, ambiguous economic data, and a potentially pivotal fight over your right to share financial data and use fintech apps—providing the insight needed to understand both immediate and future changes in the economy and digital banking access.

Transcript

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[Sabri Ben-Achour]

Why gold is Hitting New Records from Marketplace I'm Sabri Ben, ashore in for David Brancaccio. As the US Seizes another Venezuelan oil tanker. The price of gold is hitting fresh records right now. It's up 1.5% this morning. The two are slightly connected. Julia Coronado is founder and president of Macro Policy Perspectives and a professor at UT Austin. She she joins us as she does on Mondays. Hi Julia.

[Julia Coronado]

Good morning.

[Sabri Ben-Achour]

So gold, if current trends keep up, will be up more than 66% in a year. Largest rise since 1979. That's crazy. Why is that happening?

[Julia Coronado]

Well, gold generally benefits from worries about instability and particularly in a world where there are growing concerns about the dollar, Gold has an extra dose of safe haven status and really has been rallying off and on all year with some force.

[Sabri Ben-Achour]

Why might the dollar be point of concern this year?

[Julia Coronado]

Well, the US has traditionally been the bulwark of stability in the world and certainly the dollar still has the reserve currency status in the global economy. But we are not a bulwark of stability. You know, Venezuela is the latest geopolitical tension causing a flight to safety. And just in general, concerns about US Credibility and role in the global economy is certainly being tested this year.

[Sabri Ben-Achour]

Tomorrow we're going to get GDP data for the third quarter. Last week we got a whole ton of different delayed data from inflation to jobs. Do we have a clear sense of where the economy's at, having had the opportunity to sift through all this?

[Julia Coronado]

No, we don't have a clear sense. The data was rather messy. The labor market is definitely soft and inflation. There was a missing month and some assumptions were made that kept inflation on the low side. So I don't think we have a real clear picture of the state of.

[Sabri Ben-Achour]

The U.S. economy, you know, with the inflation being understated. One explanation I heard was that the the collection of price data started late in November around when Black Friday discounts were just coming into being. Is that right?

[Julia Coronado]

That's part of the issue, yes, that if you concentrate your data collection in the second half of November, when all the sales are going to look like prices are lower. So yes, that, that is one issue. Another issue was that they were missing October, and some of the assumptions they made basically assumed zero inflation in October. Which of course is probably an understatement of the reality.

[Sabri Ben-Achour]

All right, Julia Coronado, founder and President of Macro Policy Perspectives. Thanks as always.

[Julia Coronado]

My pleasure.

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[Sabri Ben-Achour]

Should banks be able to share your financial data if you want them to? For example, if you want to share your bank account information to use Venmo or Cash app or Google Pay to send money or to use some outside financial tech service under the Biden administration, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau said banks do have to share your data if you want them to. Under the Trump administration, it's considering ruling they don't. So what would that mean exactly? Steve Baumes is founder and president of a law and advocacy. He's also executive director at the Financial Data and Technology association, which represents those third party payment apps. Steve, good morning.

[Steve Baumes]

Good morning spree.

[Sabri Ben-Achour]

So this rule that we're talking about is about sharing financial data, controlling how it's shared. What does that actually mean though? Like what's a concrete example of what this rule does?

[Steve Baumes]

So today about 80% of Americans use at least one financial Apple, think Venmo, PayPal. These are tools that help you send and receive money faster, take payments if you're a small business owner, help you manage your money more easily and more efficiently.

[Sabri Ben-Achour]

So if we, if this rule goes away, what do we stop being able to do?

[Steve Baumes]

Potentially, you stop being able to use these apps altogether or they become significantly more expensive than what your bank provides you today.

[Sabri Ben-Achour]

When the administrations changed, the CFPB's take on all of this changed. Why the reversal?

[Steve Baumes]

The first Trump administration actually started this process of creating the initial rule. And so this is a rule where in 2020, President Trump and his administration were very much in favor of your ability to share data. My view is, I think that this was an initial kind of instinctive reaction by the second Trump administration that if something was done during the Biden admin, it must be bad. And so what you've seen over the last several months is a re retrenchment where the second Trump administration then took a more close look at it and said, well actually maybe we just want to amend it and tweak it.

[Sabri Ben-Achour]

We do know that banks did not like this rule. Do not like this rule. What about it do they not like? And how might that inform perhaps the changes that might come to it?

[Steve Baumes]

They didn't like that they were required to allow you as a consumer to share your data at no charge, that it was yours to share free. And so they want to be able to charge you to share that data. They didn't like that you were able to share your data with payment tools because they themselves offer those payment tools. There is no entity that is better positioned to take advantage of this rule and offer competitive technology based tools or products than banks themselves. They have the customer relationships, they have the resources, they have the technology stacks. And so ultimately this is about whether you as a consumer should have the right in the free market to choose a financial provider, regardless of whether it's your bank or somebody else.

[Sabri Ben-Achour]

Steve Baumes founder and president at Elan Advocacy. Thank you so much.

[Steve Baumes]

Thank you.

[Sabri Ben-Achour]

In New York, I'm Sabri Benishore with the Marketplace morning Report from 8pm American Public Media.

[Marketplace Host]

As we head toward the end of the year, Marketplace is here to help you make sense of the economy, what's happening, why it matters, and how it affects you. If this reporting has been valuable to you in 2025, consider becoming a Marketplace investor. Your support powers independent journalism that cuts through the noise and delivers clarity when it counts. Donate [e-mail] or click the link in the show notes.