Gender pay gap widens for second year in a row

Summary

Podcast Summary: Marketplace Morning Report

Episode: Gender pay gap widens for second year in a row
Date: September 11, 2025
Host: David Brancaccio

Overview

This episode explores major developments in the U.S. economy, with a focus on the growing gender pay gap, surprising shifts in billionaire fortunes, a federal probe into labor statistics, and a rise in home foreclosures. The show delivers concise expert analysis and firsthand quotes, weaving together labor economics, business headlines, and implications for ordinary Americans.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Gender Pay Gap Widens for Second Year

• Main Finding: According to new Census Bureau data, the gender pay gap increased in 2024, marking the second consecutive year of widening disparity.
  • Wages for men rose by 3.7%, while women’s wages remained flat.
  • Full-time working women now earn 80.9% of what men earn, a decrease from previous years. (00:47–01:42)
• Expert Perspectives:
  • Elise Gould (Economic Policy Institute) highlights there are various ways to measure the pay gap, but they “all consistently show a wide and stubborn gap.” (01:07–01:24)
  • Betsey Stevenson (University of Michigan) suggests that "return to office" policies may be forcing mothers to accept lower-paying jobs, exacerbating a historical trend where family responsibilities lead women to step back from higher-earning roles.
• Possible Solutions:
  • "Access to affordable childcare and flexible workplace policies for all parents would help narrow the gap." – Betsey Stevenson (02:16)
• Emotional Tone: Stevenson calls the backslide “obviously depressing.” (01:42)

2. Billionaire Wealth Watch: Oracle’s Surge

• Background: A surge in Oracle’s stock temporarily made CEO Larry Ellison the world’s richest person, overtaking Tesla’s Elon Musk. Both are now worth over $380 billion. (02:27)
• Insight: Oracle’s boom is tied to growth in cloud computing and artificial intelligence contracts.

3. Investigation into U.S. Labor Statistics

• Issue: The Department of Labor’s Office of Inspector General (OIG) launched an investigation into the Bureau of Labor Statistics’ (BLS) data collection methods.
  • BLS recently revised job creation numbers downward by nearly a million for April 2024–March 2025.
  • Budget constraints have forced BLS to cut data collection in some cities and discontinue specific producer price indexes.
• Quote: “The BLS has been underfunded for years… had to stop collecting inflation data in three cities…” – Nancy Marshall-Genzer (03:14–03:46)

4. Housing Market: Foreclosure Activity Rising

• Rates & Trends:
  • Average 30-year fixed-rate mortgage is just under 6.3%, down slightly from earlier in September.
  • Foreclosure activity increased 18% in August year-over-year, per real estate data firm ATTOM. (05:52–06:20)
• Causes:
  • Economic weakness, slower job creation, and higher unemployment are driving increased mortgage delinquencies.
  • “People pay on their mortgages when they’re employed; they lose their job, they’re much more likely to become delinquent.” – Mike Frattantoni, Mortgage Bankers Association (06:46)
  • Difficulty in finding new employment is prolonging delinquency for some homeowners.
  • FHA loan holders and first-time buyers are especially vulnerable (over 10% delinquency). Student loan repayments and consumer credit delinquencies are adding to the challenge. (07:22)
• Reassurance:
  • Frattantoni and analyst Jeff Ostrowski both note overall foreclosure rates remain below pre-pandemic levels, largely because most homebuyers have high credit scores and significant equity.
  • “Most have gained a lot of equity… so they can just sell out if they can no longer pay.” – Mike Frattantoni (08:19)
  • Many homeowners are still protected by having low-rate (3%) mortgages and manageable payment-to-income ratios. (08:43–08:54)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Gender Pay Gap:

  • “As of 2024, full time women are paid only 80.9% of what full time men are paid, the second annual decrease in a row. I mean, it's obviously depressing to see.”
    – Betsey Stevenson (01:37–01:42)
  • “We end up in this really difficult spiral where women are paid less than men, so it makes sense for them to be the one to leave work early to pick the kid up from daycare.”
    – Betsey Stevenson (02:07–02:14)
  • “Access to affordable childcare and flexible workplace policies for all parents would help narrow the gap.”
    – Betsey Stevenson (02:16)

• On Foreclosure Risks:

  • “People pay on their mortgages when they're employed; they lose their job, they're much more likely to become delinquent.”
    – Mike Frattantoni (06:46)
  • “Most home buyers are in very solid position financially. Most have gained a lot of equity.”
    – Mike Frattantoni (08:19)

• On Data Quality Concerns:

  • “The BLS has been underfunded for years… had to stop collecting inflation data in three cities and stopped issuing some indexes in the Producer Price Report because of a lack of resources.”
    – Nancy Marshall-Genzer (03:38–03:46)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Gender Pay Gap Widening & Analysis: 00:47–02:27
• Billionaires Wealth Brief: 02:27–03:14
• U.S. Labor Statistics Probe: 03:14–04:20
• Mortgage & Foreclosure Trends: 05:52–09:05

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Conclusion

The episode delivers an informative overview of widening gender inequality in pay, investigates the causes behind a spike in mortgage difficulties, spotlights volatility among the billionaire elite, and highlights federal scrutiny of crucial economic data. It points to systemic issues—like the persistent gender pay gap and economic vulnerabilities post-pandemic—while noting where stability remains thanks to high homeowner equity and tighter lending standards. Listeners are left with a nuanced understanding of both concern and resilience in today’s economy.

Transcript

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[Mitchell Hartman]

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[David Brancaccio]

Men got slightly richer, women did not I'm David Brancaccio in Los Angeles. The Census Bureau finds the gap between what women earned and what men earned in 2024 widened. For the second year in a row, typical wages for men increased 3.7% but stayed flat for women marketplaces, Savannah Peters.

[Maggie Smith]

Reports There are lots of ways to measure the difference between what men and women earn, says Elise Gould with the Economic Policy Institute. You can compare hourly wages or annual salaries, control for factors like education and zip code or not, and they're all correct.

[Betsey Stevenson]

They may be telling a slightly different.

[Maggie Smith]

Story, but Gould says the data consistently show a wide and stubborn gap, including the Census Bureau's comparison of total earnings by year round full time workers.

[Betsey Stevenson]

As of 2024, full time women are paid only 80.9% of what full time.

[Maggie Smith]

Men are paid, the second annual decrease in a row. I mean, it's obviously depressing to see. Betsey Stevenson at the University of Michigan says one factor behind that backslide could be return to office policies causing working mothers accept lower paying jobs in exchange for flexibility, the latest iteration of a well worn family dynamic that drives the gender pay gap.

[Betsey Stevenson]

We end up in this really difficult.

[Maggie Smith]

Spiral where women are paid less than men, so it makes sense for them to be the one to leave work.

[Betsey Stevenson]

Early to pick the kid up from daycare.

[Maggie Smith]

Stevenson says access to affordable childcare and flexible workplace policies for all parents would help narrow the gap. I'm Savannah Peters for Marketplace.

[David Brancaccio]

Meanwhile, yesterday the wealth gap between two men stood at zero when stock in the cloud computing and database company Oracle soared. Yesterday morning, there's a moment where Oracle CEO Larry Ellison was the richest person in the world on paper. For that momentary stretch, poor Tesla CEO Elon Musk had to put up with being number two richest. Both are worth more than $380 billion. Oracle stock was way up, in part because it's doing a lot of remote computing under contract to run artificial intelligence. An internal watchdog at the Labor Department has launched a probe into how the U.S. bureau of Labor Statistics collects and reports its closely watched economic data. The BLS routinely revises its calculations, but President Trump recently fired its chief. Here's our Nancy Marshall Genzer.

[Betsey Stevenson]

The Labor Department's Office of Inspector General announced the investigation in a letter yesterday to the Bureau of Labor Statistics acting commissioner. The letter says the office will review the challenges the BLS encounters collecting and reporting closely watching watched economic data. The investigation comes after the BLS reported there were almost a million fewer jobs created from April 2024 to March of this year than it originally estimated. The Inspector General's office says it'll also be looking into reduced data collection for the Consumer Price Index and Producer Price Index. The BLS has been underfunded for years. The agency has had to stop collecting inflation data in three cities and stopped issuing some indexes in the Producer Price Report because of a lack of resour resources. I'm Nancy Marshall Genser for Marketplace.

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[David Brancaccio]

The average 30 year fixed rate home loan is just under 6.3% now, down from 6.5% to start the month. Using Mortgage News Daily' calculation Fresh data on the housing market show rising distress among homeowners Adam, a real estate data firm, reports that foreclosure activity was up 18% in August compared to a year ago. We're talking notices of default auctions. Bank Repossessions Marketplace's Mitchell Hartman has that.

[Mitchell Hartman]

The Mortgage Bankers association does its own tracking of serious mortgage delinquencies and foreclosure filings, and it did see an uptick in the second quarter compared to 2024, though not as dramatic as Adam's data for Aug. MBA chief economist Mike Frattantoni says the uptick in homeowners and trouble is being driven by economic weakness, especially stalling job creation and rising unemployment.

[Mike Frattantoni]

People pay on their mortgages when they're employed, they lose their job, they're much more likely to become delinquent.

[Mitchell Hartman]

And he thinks homeowners have a hard road ahead if they lose a job.

[Mike Frattantoni]

At this point, it's becoming much tougher to find a new one. And it's not like a lot more folks are becoming delinquent on their mortgage. But for folks that have fallen behind, they're having a more difficult time catching.

[Mitchell Hartman]

Up, especially with FHA loans, which generally go to first time buyers with lower down payments. More than 10% of those mortgages are now delinquent. Frattantoni says challenges for those households are mounting.

[Mike Frattantoni]

The slowing job market, student debts that are required to be paid once again, rising consumer delinquencies in auto and credit cards.

[Mitchell Hartman]

Still, overall foreclosure levels remain lower than they were before the pandemic. So bank rate housing analyst Jeff Ostrowski isn't overly alarmed about the August uptick.

[Mike Frattantoni]

Sounds a little bit jarring at first. I mean, double digit increase in foreclosures must be a bad thing. But really this is just one more way the housing market is returning to.

[Mitchell Hartman]

Something like normalcy following the pandemic when interest rates fell to rock bottom, house prices soared and homeowners could pause their mortgage payments.

[Mike Frattantoni]

Throughout the pandemic there were essentially no foreclosures. So there's some little catch up for the housing market to get back to normal.

[Mitchell Hartman]

Ostroski says. Since lending standards were tightened after the financial crisis. The vast majority of mortgage holders now have high credit scores.

[Mike Frattantoni]

Most home buyers are in very solid position financially. Most have gained a lot of equity.

[Mitchell Hartman]

So they can just sell out if they can no longer pay the mortgage. Chris Mayer at Columbia Business School says there will be some unlucky folks who bought in the last few years at a high home price, paying a 7% plus mortgage and do face heightened foreclosure risk.

[Mike Frattantoni]

But remember, you have a ton of people still sitting on 3% mortgages or below. If you look at data on the mortgage payment to income ratio, it's near.

[Mitchell Hartman]

Historic lows, meaning a lot of homeowners are buffered from being overwhelmed by their mortgage payments even in an economic downturn. I'm Mitchell Hartman for Marketplace.

[David Brancaccio]

It's Marketplace Morning Report from APM American Public Media.

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