How optimistic are small business owners in this economy?

Summary

Marketplace Morning Report

Episode: How optimistic are small business owners in this economy?
Date: November 14, 2025
Host: David Brancaccio
Summary by: Marketplace Summarizer

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the current economic mood among small business owners, exploring their challenges, levels of optimism, and innovative responses to a tough environment. It also highlights a new pay-what-you-can fine dining experiment in New York City led by Mark Bittman, which confronts issues of sustainability and fairness in the food industry. Tangentially, it touches on broader economic signals such as rising bankruptcy rates and changes to retirement savings limits.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Small Business Optimism and Challenges

(00:59–03:00)

• Data Snapshot:

  • The National Federation of Independent Businesses’ optimism index is at its lowest since April, signaling unease amongst small business owners.
    • “For small businesses, there is no such requirement [to publicly report performance], so there are surveys. For instance, the National Federation of Independent Businesses optimism index fell in October to the lowest level since April.” — David Brancaccio (00:59)

• Why Optimism is Down:

  • Brian Pifer (VP of Research, Small Business Majority) points out that business owners are generally upbeat, but 2025 has proved tough:
    • "Business owners tend to be an optimistic bunch, but this year has been really challenging in terms of revenue declines and expense increases.” — Brian Pifer (01:41)
  • Compounding factors:
    • Higher tariffs on imports and rising health insurance premiums.
    • Specific hardship for Hispanic-owned businesses due to immigration enforcement, leading to workforce reductions.
      • “Headcount decreases among Hispanic owned businesses. The impacts of immigration enforcement.” — Brian Pifer (01:56)

• Cautious Optimism Exists:

  • Cardiff, a small business lender, finds many owners are “cautiously optimistic.” Despite concerns over inflation/tariffs, small businesses are preparing for growth:

    • “There’s been a 25% increase by small business owners applying for capital, building a war chest.” — William Stern, CEO of Cardiff (02:19)

  • Increased marketing and bulk buying are ways businesses are responding positively.

• Personal Story:

  • Ariel Voorhees, owner of Gather Round (a Vermont personal chef business), notes luxury services get cut first, but busier lifestyles may sustain demand:
    • “In this economy, a personal chef is a luxury. Some families have had to stop service — layoffs in the family or medical bills.” — Ariel Voorhees (02:41)
    • She remains hopeful about the future, planning to maintain two chefs.

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2. Broader Economic Outlook

(03:00–03:48)

• Corporate Bankruptcies:

  • Bankruptcies among large companies are trending toward a 15-year high. (03:00)

• Retirement Savings Changes:

  • Roth IRA contribution limits will rise:
    • $7,500 for 2026 (up from $7,000), with an additional $1,100 for those 50 and over.
    • “The government has just increased the amount people can save in Roth IRA accounts from $7,000 to $7,500 in 2026. For people 50 and older, it’s another $1,100.” — David Brancaccio (03:00)

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3. Pay-What-You-Can Fine Dining—A Radical Restaurant Model

(05:18–08:33)

• Spotlight: Community Kitchen, NYC
  • Community Kitchen is a pop-up restaurant experimenting with sustainability, economic fairness, and universal access to high quality food.
  • Guest: Mark Bittman, noted food writer/co-founder.

Core Problems in the Food System

• “What’s wrong with our food system is that it’s not broken. It’s working as intended. And it’s intended to work to produce the greatest yield with very little or no intention of minimizing environmental impact or of positively affecting public health.” — Mark Bittman (05:50)

Community Kitchen’s Solutions

• Four/five pillars for a better restaurant:
  • Sourcing from local, sustainable farms.
  • Paying a living wage ($32/hour) to workers.
    • “We’re treating workers with dignity and professionalism. That’s very, very rare in the food system.” — Mark Bittman (06:19)
  • Serving top-quality, largely plant-forward food.
  • Fostering community—attracting a diverse clientele.

The Sliding Scale Payment Model

• Diners choose to pay $15, $45, or $125 for the same meal; no questions asked.

  • “People are going to pay what they think they ought to pay because that’s the most dignified and honorable way to do this.” — Mark Bittman (07:14)

• Traditional fine dining is profit-driven and often exploits workers; Community Kitchen is explicitly not-for-profit to demonstrate another way:

  • “If diners are paying two or three hundred dollars a person, then there’s a chance that restaurant is legitimately profitable. But... if you’re going to charge some people more or less than other people, then your restaurant can’t possibly be profitable. And that’s the model… to show what it would be like when you take profit out of this equation.” — Mark Bittman (07:45)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Small Business Mood:

  • “Business owners tend to be an optimistic bunch, but this year has been really challenging in terms of revenue declines and expense increases.” — Brian Pifer (01:41)

• Pay-What-You-Can Concept:

  • “I can tell you that the most brain power has gone into that sliding scale thing... People are going to pay what they think they ought to pay because that’s the most dignified and honorable way to do this.” — Mark Bittman (07:14)

• On Systemic Food System Issues:

  • “What’s wrong with our food system is that it’s not broken. It’s working as intended.” — Mark Bittman (05:50)

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• 00:59–03:00: Small business optimism, headwinds, and adaptation.
• 03:00–03:48: Surge in corporate bankruptcies, Roth IRA contribution changes.
• 05:18–08:33: Interview with Mark Bittman on Community Kitchen’s model and goals.

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Episode Tone

The episode maintains Marketplace’s signature informative, succinct style. David Brancaccio’s tone is measured and inquisitive; guests are candid but hopeful, especially in the face of economic uncertainty. Mark Bittman mixes passion and resolve in his description of the restaurant project.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

You’ll come away understanding:

• The current headwinds and pockets of opportunity for small businesses in 2025.
• What real innovation (and challenge) looks like in the food industry, including disruptively inclusive initiatives like Community Kitchen.
• The broader economic context: bankruptcy trends and new rules for retirement savers.

All covered in under ten minutes—without ad chatter or digressions.

Transcript

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[David Brancaccio]

For an extravagant nine course meal. Given the choice, would you pay $15 a person? 45 $125? Same meal? We'll explain. I'm David Brancaccio in Los Angeles. First for a big company with a publicly traded stock, every quarter they tell you how they're doing. But for small businesses, there is no such requirement. So there are surveys. For instance, the National Federation of Independent Businesses optimism index fell in October to the lowest level since April, Marketplace's Mitchell Hartman reports.

[Mitchell Hartman]

The Small Business Majority, which primarily represents firms with one to 10 employees, reports Optimism is low right now. Brian Pifer is VP of Research.

[Brian Pifer]

Business owners tend to be an optimistic bunch, but this year has been really challenging in terms of revenue declines and expense increases.

[Mitchell Hartman]

Costs are up for tariffs on imported goods and health insurance premiums. Meanwhile, Peifer is seeing a lot of.

[Brian Pifer]

Headcount decreases among Hispanic owned businesses. The impacts of immigration enforcement.

[Mitchell Hartman]

A rosier view comes from a recent report from small business lender Cardiff, which finds company owners cautiously optimistic. Cardiff CEO William Stern says there is plenty of anxiety about inflation and tariffs. Still, a lot of firms are poised to grow.

[Brian Pifer]

There's been a 25% increase by small business owners applying for capital, building a war chest.

[David Brancaccio]

They're buying materials in bulk.

[Brian Pifer]

They're doing more marketing.

[Mitchell Hartman]

Ariel Voorhees in South Burlington, Vermont, has been growing her personal chef business called Gather Round. She hired her first employee this year. She says some of her customers are struggling.

[Ariel Voorhees]

In this economy, a personal chef is a luxury. Some families have had to stop service layoffs in the family or medical bills.

[Mitchell Hartman]

Still, with families getting ever busier, she thinks she'll have enough demand to keep two chefs cooking this coming year. I'm Mitchell Hartman for Marketplace.

[David Brancaccio]

Meanwhile, corporate bankruptcies are on pace to hit their highest level in 15 years, according to S and P Data. And if you're in a position to save for retirement, here are some numbers for next year. The government has just increased the amount people can save in Roth IRA accounts from 7,000 to $7,500 in 2026. For people 50 and older, it's another $1,100. You can kick in with Roth. You pay taxes now, but not later, even as the portfolio presumably grows over the.

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[David Brancaccio]

Now to pay what you can fine dining it's an experiment in New York City in the interest of sustainability, economic fairness and great food. It's a pop up limited time test of a restaurant called Community Kitchen located in the Lower east side Girls Club. One of its co founders is Mark Bittman the noted food writer and former New York Times columnist who joins us now. Mark, welcome.

[Mark Bittman]

Great to be here. David, thank you for having me.

[David Brancaccio]

In your view, what is broken in our food system that you hope this place, Community Kitchen, helps to solve?

[Mark Bittman]

What's wrong with our food system is that it's not broken. It's working as intended. And it's intended to work to produce the greatest yield with very little or no intention of minimizing environmental impact or of positively affecting public health.

[David Brancaccio]

So some of it is about what you're serving, but it's also what Community Kitchen pays its workers. A living wage, $32 an hour.

[Mark Bittman]

I think we would say that there are four or five different ways in which we're showing how a food system could be better. One is we're sourcing from local farms, from farmers who do things right. Two is, yes, we're treating workers with dignity and professionalism. That's very, very rare in the food system. Third is we're cooking really, really great food. Also largely plant forward a lot of vegetables. And then building community, having people of different races, income levels from different neighborhoods, et cetera, all in the same place.

[David Brancaccio]

Yeah. I mean, not exclusive. So what you're using is a tiered scale, same food, but, you know, the diner's bank account decides, can you spend 15 or could you spend $45 a person? Or you choo $125 a person? I mean, does that encapsulate it?

[Mark Bittman]

I've been thinking about this project and working on it for years, and I can tell you that the most brain power has gone into that sliding scale thing. And at the end of the day, we decided we're gonna have these three income levels, and it's no questions asked. People are going to pay what they think they ought to pay because that's the most dignified and honorable way to do this. We thought.

[David Brancaccio]

I once talked to a New York chef who admitted that the traditional model of nicer than most restaura was built on exploiting the workers.

[Mark Bittman]

If diners are paying two or three hundred dollars a person, then there's a chance that restaurant is legitimately profitable. But if you're going to source good food and pay workers well, and especially if you're going to charge some people more or less than other people, then your restaurant can't possibly be profitable. And that's the model for Community Kitchen is we never intended to be profitable because we wanted, again, to show what it would be like when you take profit out of this equation, because then you can pay workers well, and then you can make sure that the access to this great food that you're producing is universal or nearly universal.

[David Brancaccio]

Mark Bittman, food writer and one of the co founders of Community Kitchen, a new public restaurant in New York's East Village, thank you very much.

[Mark Bittman]

You're welcome, David. Thanks for having me.

[David Brancaccio]

A pattern in our house is one of us cooking, the other enjoying. But asking, where'd you get the recipe? Very often the answer is that guy. Two syllables, Bittman. Our executive producer is Nancy Fargali. Our digital team includes Antoinette Brock, Emily McCune and Dylan Miettinen. Our engineers are Rachel Brees and Tessa Block. In Los Angeles, I'm David Brancaccio. It's the Marketplace Morning Report from APM American Public Media.

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