How shifting tariff policy hits one Pennsylvania business

Summary

Podcast Summary: Marketplace Morning Report

Episode: How shifting tariff policy hits one Pennsylvania business
Host: David Brancaccio
Date: November 4, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode focuses on the real-life effects of shifting U.S. tariff policies on American businesses with international supply chains. David Brancaccio interviews Ben Kneppler, co-founder of Pennsylvania-based outdoor chair company True Places, about the unpredictability of tariffs, the challenges in finding reliable manufacturing alternatives, and the broad ramifications for American companies and jobs. The episode also briefly covers a Supreme Court case on presidential tariff authority, ongoing government food aid issues, and a major financial decision about Elon Musk’s Tesla pay package.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Impact of Ever-Changing Tariffs on Business (00:49–04:47)

• True Places’ Origin and Manufacturing Dilemma

  • True Places began manufacturing in Asia, primarily China, as virtually the entire product category is based there.
  • As tariffs on Chinese goods increased, the company spent a year shifting production to Cambodia in search of more stability.

• Whiplash in Tariff Rates

  • New tariffs from Cambodia have varied dramatically in just six months — from 0% to 49%, then to 10%, to 36%, to 19%, with the constant threat of further changes.
  • Quote:

    "[In] the last six months, the tariff rate on products like we make in Cambodia coming into the US has gone from 0% to 49% to 10% to 36% to 19% plus all kinds of other threats and other tariffs. So it's really impossible to plan when you've got no idea what that's going to look like tomorrow." (Ben Kneppler, 02:32)

• Onshoring Isn’t a Simple Solution

  • U.S. manufacturing capacity for True Places’ products simply doesn’t exist, meaning they'd need to build entire supply chains from scratch, at exponentially higher costs.
  • Quote:

    "If they did exist, the costs would be orders of magnitude higher." (Ben Kneppler, 03:10)

• The Irony for U.S. Companies

  • Most of True Places’ operations and jobs are based in the U.S., except for the physical manufacturing, illustrating how tariff policies meant to "bring jobs home" can hurt American workers in other parts of a business.
  • Quote:

    "That's, that's the irony of this situation is that we're a US Company, we do pretty much everything in the US except for just the manufacturing and assembling of, of our chairs." (Ben Kneppler, 03:34)

• Legal & Policy Uncertainty

  • The business community is anxiously watching a Supreme Court case about the limits of presidential power on tariffs, but there’s cynicism about whether any ruling will lead to real stability.
  • Quote:

    "The general feeling speaking to other business owners... is that even if it's ruled illegal in this case, this administration will find other ways to get to the similar kind of outcome... The exact rules and the tariff rates change on an almost daily basis." (Ben Kneppler, 04:07)

2. Tariffs: A Broader Economic Tool (04:56–05:00)

• Quick reminder that tariffs are import taxes that increase Treasury revenues, but have wide, unpredictable effects on businesses at every level.

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Notable Quotes

• On unpredictability:

  "It's really impossible to plan when you've got no idea what that's going to look like tomorrow." (Ben Kneppler, 02:54)

• On the broader impact of tariffs:

  "If we go out of business, then all of those other businesses that we do, those other functions within the US also get hit." (Ben Kneppler, 03:46)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• 00:49 – Introduction to True Places and overview of how tariff policy impacts their international supply chain.
• 01:32 – Ben Kneppler discusses the origins and manufacturing challenges of True Places.
• 02:32 – Dramatic changes in Tariff rates and their effect.
• 03:10 – Discussion of the feasibility and cost of domestic manufacturing.
• 03:34 – The irony of American companies being penalized by tariffs despite having significant U.S. operations.
• 04:07 – Insights on the ongoing Supreme Court case and the future outlook for tariff-related policy.
• 04:56 – Brief clarification of what tariffs are and their purpose in government revenue.

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Closing Thoughts

This episode illustrates the daily challenges faced by American businesses trying to navigate a volatile global trade environment—especially when tariffs and supply chains are in constant flux. Ben Kneppler’s perspective highlights how policy changes intended to strengthen domestic industry can instead undercut innovative companies that do much of their work—and employ most of their people—here at home. The Supreme Court’s upcoming decision may bring clarity, but there’s little optimism that uncertainty will end soon.

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For more Marketplace business insights, visit: marketplace.org

Transcript

[Bridget]

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[David Brancaccio]

Of Changing tariffs for businesses that get parts from overseas I'm David Brancaccio in Los Angeles. In a test over limits to a president's power to act without Congress. Oral arguments are set for tomorrow in the US Supreme Court over a subset of the Trump administration's import taxes, the ones dubbed reciprocal tariffs. Ahead of that, we continue to talk to businesses benefiting or losing out to the highest U.S. tariffs since the 1930s. Today, not your grandfather's folding camp chair, it's a Pennsylvania based business with a global supply chain called True Places. The chairs are pricier than most and I will say nicer than most, like for camping or tailgating, that kind of thing. Ben Kneppler is co founder. Welcome.

[Ben Kneppler]

Thanks for having me.

[Interviewer]

So look, there was a long stretch some years ago where a US Based company could set up a supply chain somewhere in the world and set it and forget it. Like you could have that relationship for years. You've had to, I think, refine your supply chain, what quite a bit in recent years.

[Ben Kneppler]

When we started the company, the entire category of this kind of product is all made in Asia, primarily in China. From the beginning we were trying to figure out alternatives to that. Last year we finally found a viable alternative in Cambodia. So outside of China, took us about a year to move and transition our manufacturing from China to Cambodia. And then yeah, we've been getting hit with a lot more tariffs again this year.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, with the shifting tariff landscape Cambodia, there's a tariff that is now a lot higher than it was to start the year right.

[Ben Kneppler]

In the last six months, the tariff rate on products like we make in Cambodia coming into the US has gone from 0% to 49% to 10% to 36% to 19% plus all kinds of other threats and other tariffs. So it's really impossible to plan when you've got no idea what that's going to look like tomorrow.

[Interviewer]

Ben, would you manufacture in, for instance, Pennsylvania, you know, in the United States if the numbers worked out? Shorter supply chains would minimize the risk.

[Ben Kneppler]

Of course, if we could, we, we would. But the manufacturing for our category of products just doesn't even exist in, in the US So we'd have to create all of these interconnected supply chains that don't currently exist. If they did exist, the costs would be orders of magnitude higher.

[Interviewer]

And be clear, you have U.S. employees. It's just they're not actually making the chairs.

[Ben Kneppler]

That's, that's the, the irony of this situation is that we're a US Company, we do pretty much everything in the US except for just the manufacturing and assembling of, of our chairs. You know, if we go out of business, then all of those other businesses that we do, those other functions within the US Also get hit.

[Interviewer]

Are you watching this Supreme Court case at all? Because there's a chance, right, that some of these tariffs are ruled illegal and the numbers change Again, I think the.

[Ben Kneppler]

General feeling speaking to other business owners and other founders and others in the industry is that even if it's ruled illegal in this case, this administration will find other ways to get to the similar kind of outcome we've seen over the past few months. The exact rules and the tariff rates change on an almost daily basis. And so this court case feels consequential on the one hand, but also feels just like another change that we don't know where it's ultimately going to end up or just continue changing over time.

[Interviewer]

Ben Kneppler, co founder of the Pennsylvania outdoor chair company True Places, thank you so much.

[Ben Kneppler]

Thank you for having me.

[David Brancaccio]

Again, tariffs are import taxes that raise.

[Interviewer]

Money for the Treasury.

[David Brancaccio]

The Trump administration has responded to a court order ordering the US Government to use emergency funds to pay partial food stamp benefits for November. In a filing yesterday, the administration said more than $4 billion in emergency funds would cover about half of the monthly payments for the approximately 42 million Americans who rely on food aid. It's unclear when the payments will land for struggling families.

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[David Brancaccio]

Elon Musk got some bad news from a huge investor today. Norway's massive sovereign wealth fund has voted against Musk's pay package, Marketplace's Nancy Marshall Genzer reports.

[Nancy Marshall Genzer]

Tesla is scheduled to hold its annual meeting this Thursday, but shareholders can cast their ballots early on things like the nearly trillion dollar pay package Tesla wants to give Elon Musk. Musk would have to increase Tesla's value to $8.5 trillion to get the raise. Tesla says the pay package is, quote, designed to retain Elon for years to come. Norway's sovereign wealth fund says it voted against the proposal, though, because it was concerned about the total size of the award. It also says Tesla didn't do anything to mitigate what it called key person risk. That is a situation where a company depends too much on one person, in this case, Elon Musk. The fund says it will continue to seek constructive dialogue with Tesla. It owns a little more than 1% of the company, a stake worth more than $11 billion. I'm Nancy Marshall Genser for Marketplace.

[David Brancaccio]

Our producers are Tamar Fagan, Ashley Rodriguez, Ariana Rosas and Erica Soderstrom. Ariel Our senior producer is Alex Schroeder. Our supervising senior producer is Meredith Garretson Morby In Los Angeles, I'm David Brancaccio. This is the Marketplace Morning Report.

[Ben Kneppler]

From.

[David Brancaccio]

Apm American Public Media.

[Bridget]

Hey everyone, it's Bridget, host of Million Bazillion, a podcast from Marketplace. You've probably heard about the government shutdown, but if you're anything like our young caller Esme, whose dad is a federal worker, you might still have questions.

[Esme]

I've noticed that my dad hasn't been going to work and I don't know when the government shutdown will stop and my dad can go back to work.

[Bridget]

We can help tune into our recent episode where we explain what you and the young ones in your life need to know about government shutdowns. Listen to Million Bazillion on your favorite podcast app.