Immigration policy meets higher ed

Summary

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Marketplace Morning Report: "Immigration Policy Meets Higher Ed"

Host: Saree Benishore (in for David Brancaccio)
Date: September 30, 2025
Main Theme:
This episode examines the recent shifts in U.S. immigration policy under the Trump administration—specifically, new tariffs and a proposed $100,000 fee on H1B visas—and their significant implications for the economy, tech sector, and, notably, higher education.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. New Tariffs and Economic Ramifications

• Summary:
  The Trump administration has enacted new tariffs: 10% on softwood timber, 30% on some wooden products, and 50% on kitchen cabinets, with phased implementation into January. The administration justifies these on national security grounds and to bolster the domestic timber industry. The business community, namely the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, contests their necessity and impact.

• Expert Insight (Dr. David Kelly, JP Morgan Funds):

  • Delayed Economic Effects:
    “Tariffs have a delayed impact on the economy. It takes a while for the price increases to kick in and for businesses to pass those on to consumers.” (02:05)
  • Business Uncertainty:
    “If tariffs are designed to cause people to relocate manufacturing into the United States, you kind of have to know what they are, sort of, once and for all. So if you keep on changing the rules, people just don’t make any decision at all. And of course, that’s bad for business both here and around the world.” (02:25)
  • Cost vs. Benefit:
    "Each tariff benefits a small group, but it tends to hurt the overall economy." (03:07)
    • Economists “almost universally think that tariffs in general are a bad idea,” noting that the historical trend has been towards reducing tariffs because they're generally seen as economically harmful. (03:19)
  • Currency Value:
    “The US dollar has been too high for too long... business needs certainty... business does not need taxes on this and taxes on that.” (03:07)

• Notable Quote:
  “Each tariff benefits a small group, but it tends to hurt the overall economy.”
  — Dr. David Kelly (03:07)

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2. New H1B Visa Fee: Impact on Tech & Higher Education

• Summary:
  A startling $100,000 fee for each new H1B visa could reshape hiring, not only in the tech sector but prominently throughout higher education, where these visas are a critical pipeline for faculty and research roles.

• Guest Expert (Dr. Brendan Cantwell, Michigan State University):

  • Financial Strain and Hiring Dilemmas:
    “The hundred thousand dollar fee will be pretty onerous... It will force universities to rethink their hiring strategies and potentially narrow the range of people that they can consider for these vital roles.” (05:35)
  • Disproportionate Impact Across Institutions:
    Wealthy universities might adjust with only “slight” disruption, accessing endowments or budgetary flexibility. State and less wealthy schools “might not be able to afford the fee at all... and really restrict the talent pool accessible to them.”
    “Can you pass these fees on to students? Do state legislators think these fees are appropriate to use public tax dollars for?” (06:23)
  • STEM & National Talent Pipelines:
    “I think it really forces us to think about the pipeline of talent, particularly in STEM fields... It would really force many campuses to think of themselves as only eligible to hire nationally, and that would restrict this flow of talent into the country.” (07:12)
  • Domestic vs. International Talent:
    While some claim the U.S. should “just train more domestic talent,” Cantwell points out that “the very programs... to expand the pipeline of highly skilled talent... are the very ones that the administration has targeted, either by closing programs or canceling individual grants.” (07:44)

• Notable Quotes:

  • “The hundred thousand dollar fee will be pretty onerous... It will force universities to rethink their hiring strategies and potentially to narrow the range of people that they can consider for these vital roles.”
    — Dr. Brendan Cantwell (05:35)
  • “The very programs... to expand the pipeline of highly skilled talent... are the very ones that the administration has targeted, either by closing programs or canceling individual grants.”
    — Dr. Brendan Cantwell (07:44)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:06] — Show opens with summary of new tariffs, introduction of Dr. David Kelly
• [01:45 - 03:43] — In-depth discussion on tariffs: economic effects, business uncertainty, dollar strength
• [05:03] — Introduction of the H1B visa fee policy as it pertains to higher ed
• [05:29 - 08:17] — Dr. Brendan Cantwell on the cascading impact of the H1B fee on university hiring, research, and U.S. talent pipelines

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

“If you keep on changing the rules, people just don’t make any decisions at all. And of course, that’s bad for business both here and around the world.”
— Dr. David Kelly (02:27)

“Other institutions might not be able to afford the fee at all. And it might force them out of the international hiring game and really restrict the talent pool that they have that's accessible to them.”
— Dr. Brendan Cantwell (06:29)

“It seems like the administration is saying it would like institutions to hire more US talent, but it's also not supporting efforts to broaden participation in science and get those people into the pipeline.”
— Dr. Brendan Cantwell (08:01)

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Conclusion

The episode offers a concise yet substantial exploration of new U.S. economic policies affecting trade and the international flow of talent, emphasizing both the intended and unintended consequences for universities and the business sector. Policy unpredictability and cost increases are shown to carry wide-ranging impacts, from housing affordability to the shaping of America’s research and educational workforce.

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Transcript

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[Saree Benishore]

Immigration policy meets higher ed From Marketplace. I'm Saree Benishore in for David Brancaccio. First, President Trump announced new tariffs on softwood timber, 10% and and some wooden products 30% and specified tariffs on kitchen cabinets, 50%. Some of these tariffs kick in fully on October 14. Others come in stages through January 1. The President said these tariffs were justified on national security grounds and to support the domestic timber industry. The U.S. chamber of Commerce has argued that when it comes to timber, there is no national security issue. Dr. David Kelly is chief global strategist at JP Morgan Funds. Hi David.

[David Kelly]

Good morning.

[Saree Benishore]

All right, so let's start with tariffs. We've got these new tariffs on lumber, additional tariffs on kitchen cabinets, furniture, pharmaceuticals last week. You know, we're no stranger to tariffs at this point, but we're getting more. And what do you think these are gonna do for the economy?

[David Kelly]

Well, I think what we've learned over the last few months is the tariffs have a delayed impact on the economy. It takes a while for the price increases to kick in and for businesses to pass those on to consumers. So just because it hasn't hurt that much so far doesn't mean it won't hurt more going forward. The other thing is just the confusion. I mean, what we need is a fixed level playing field. At least we need to understand what the rules of the game are. And the problem is if tariffs are designed to cause people to relocate manufacturing into the United States, you kind of have to know what they are sort of once and for all. So if you keep on changing the rules, people just don't make any decision at all. And of course that's bad for business both here and around the world.

[Saree Benishore]

You know, the US Chamber of Commerce came out against the timber tariffs in particular, saying that, you know, they would raise prices for, you know, anyone trying to build a home. But at the same time, you know, the Trump administration says these tariffs are designed to help the domestic timber industry. Do you have any idea how the costs and benefits weigh out in the end?

[David Kelly]

Each tariff benefits a small group, but it tends to hurt the overall economy. And frankly, you know, the US Dollar has been too high for too long. And I think that has various parts of the US Economy uncompetitive on the global stage. So the dollar needs to come down. But beyond that, business needs certainty. And business does not need taxes on this and taxes on that, particularly if those taxes can change because it just makes the whole economy less efficient. So economists, I think almost universally think that tariffs in general are a bad idea. And that's why for most of the last century, tariffs have been going down, not going up.

[Saree Benishore]

David Kelly is chief global strategist at JP Morgan Funds. David, thank you so much.

[David Kelly]

Anytime.

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[Saree Benishore]

The Trump administration's new hundred thousand dollar fee on new H1B visas for foreign workers threatens to upend hiring in tech. But the fee goes far beyond just that. Industry higher education also uses the H1B visa. Brennan Cantwell has written about the consequences of that fee for colleges and universities. He's a professor in the Higher Adult and Lifelong Education program at Michigan State University. He joins us. Thanks, Brennan, for coming on.

[Brennan Cantwell]

Thanks very much for having me.

[Saree Benishore]

How do you See these fees affecting universities?

[Brennan Cantwell]

The hundred thousand dollar fee will be pretty onerous. If you're a PI, a principal investigator running a lab, it's not clear where that money would come from, if it would come out of your grant budget, out of your lab budget, or whether the university would pay for it. If you looking to hire a new faculty member, a professor, it's not clear if the university will have the resources to pay for those visa costs. So it will force universities to rethink their hiring strategies and potentially to narrow the range of people that they can consider for these vital roles.

[Saree Benishore]

If you look at the list of schools with approvals to bring on foreign faculty or workers, you see a lot of Ivy League schools, but you also see a lot of state schools like Michigan. How will this affect different schools differently? Because I don't imagine they all have the same budgets.

[Brennan Cantwell]

Exactly. So the wealthiest universities may choose in some cases to pay the fee and will have resources available to them through their endowments or their operating budgets. And it may force them to adjust their hiring strategy only slightly. Other institutions might not be able to afford the fee at all. And it might force them out of the international hiring game and really restrict the talent pool that they have that's accessible to them. We can also think about the possibility of, you know, can you pass these fees on to students? Do state legislators think that these fees would be appropriate things to use state appropriations, public tax dollars for use of.

[Saree Benishore]

If this fee were to go, in effect, how would universities like Michigan State realistically adapt their hiring practices, do you think?

[Brennan Cantwell]

I think it really forces us to think about the pipeline of talent, particularly in STEM fields, in technical fields and engineering. I think this fee would really force many, many campuses to think of themselves as only eligible to hire nationally, and that would restrict this flow of talent into the country.

[Saree Benishore]

On the other hand, you know, some people will argue the US should just train more domestic talent, bring on more domestic students, researchers, scholars. Why not do that?

[Brennan Cantwell]

The programs that were designed to expand the pipeline of highly skilled talent in this programs through the National Science foundation, for example, are the very ones that the administration has targeted, either by closing programs or canceling individual grants. So it seems like the administration is saying it would like institutions to hire more US talent, but it's also not supporting efforts to broaden participation in science and get those people into the pipeline.

[Saree Benishore]

Brendan Cantwell is a professor in the Higher Adult and Lifelong Education program at Michigan State University. Great to have you on.

[Brennan Cantwell]

Thanks very much. Pleasure to be here in New York.

[Saree Benishore]

I'M Sabri Benishore with the Marketplace morning report from apm, American Public Media.

[David Brancaccio]

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