Saree Benishore (2:45)

You know, the US Chamber of Commerce came out against the timber tariffs in particular, saying that, you know, they would raise prices for, you know, anyone trying to build a home. But at the same time, you know, the Trump administration says these tariffs are designed to help the domestic timber industry. Do you have any idea how the costs and benefits weigh out in the end?

David Kelly (3:07)

Each tariff benefits a small group, but it tends to hurt the overall economy. And frankly, you know, the US Dollar has been too high for too long. And I think that has various parts of the US Economy uncompetitive on the global stage. So the dollar needs to come down. But beyond that, business needs certainty. And business does not need taxes on this and taxes on that, particularly if those taxes can change because it just makes the whole economy less efficient. So economists, I think almost universally think that tariffs in general are a bad idea. And that's why for most of the last century, tariffs have been going down, not going up.

Saree Benishore (3:43)

David Kelly is chief global strategist at JP Morgan Funds. David, thank you so much.

David Kelly (3:49)

Anytime.

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Saree Benishore (5:03)

The Trump administration's new hundred thousand dollar fee on new H1B visas for foreign workers threatens to upend hiring in tech. But the fee goes far beyond just that. Industry higher education also uses the H1B visa. Brennan Cantwell has written about the consequences of that fee for colleges and universities. He's a professor in the Higher Adult and Lifelong Education program at Michigan State University. He joins us. Thanks, Brennan, for coming on.

Brennan Cantwell (5:29)

Thanks very much for having me.

Saree Benishore (5:30)

How do you See these fees affecting universities?

Brennan Cantwell (5:35)

The hundred thousand dollar fee will be pretty onerous. If you're a PI, a principal investigator running a lab, it's not clear where that money would come from, if it would come out of your grant budget, out of your lab budget, or whether the university would pay for it. If you looking to hire a new faculty member, a professor, it's not clear if the university will have the resources to pay for those visa costs. So it will force universities to rethink their hiring strategies and potentially to narrow the range of people that they can consider for these vital roles.

Saree Benishore (6:07)

If you look at the list of schools with approvals to bring on foreign faculty or workers, you see a lot of Ivy League schools, but you also see a lot of state schools like Michigan. How will this affect different schools differently? Because I don't imagine they all have the same budgets.

Brennan Cantwell (6:23)

Exactly. So the wealthiest universities may choose in some cases to pay the fee and will have resources available to them through their endowments or their operating budgets. And it may force them to adjust their hiring strategy only slightly. Other institutions might not be able to afford the fee at all. And it might force them out of the international hiring game and really restrict the talent pool that they have that's accessible to them. We can also think about the possibility of, you know, can you pass these fees on to students? Do state legislators think that these fees would be appropriate things to use state appropriations, public tax dollars for use of.

Saree Benishore (7:03)

If this fee were to go, in effect, how would universities like Michigan State realistically adapt their hiring practices, do you think?

Brennan Cantwell (7:12)

I think it really forces us to think about the pipeline of talent, particularly in STEM fields, in technical fields and engineering. I think this fee would really force many, many campuses to think of themselves as only eligible to hire nationally, and that would restrict this flow of talent into the country.

Saree Benishore (7:31)

On the other hand, you know, some people will argue the US should just train more domestic talent, bring on more domestic students, researchers, scholars. Why not do that?

Brennan Cantwell (7:44)

The programs that were designed to expand the pipeline of highly skilled talent in this programs through the National Science foundation, for example, are the very ones that the administration has targeted, either by closing programs or canceling individual grants. So it seems like the administration is saying it would like institutions to hire more US talent, but it's also not supporting efforts to broaden participation in science and get those people into the pipeline.

Saree Benishore (8:17)

Brendan Cantwell is a professor in the Higher Adult and Lifelong Education program at Michigan State University. Great to have you on.

Brennan Cantwell (8:24)

Thanks very much. Pleasure to be here in New York.

Saree Benishore (8:27)

I'M Sabri Benishore with the Marketplace morning report from apm, American Public Media.

David Brancaccio (8:42)

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