Tariffs to hit a dinner table favorite: Italian pasta

Summary

Marketplace Morning Report

Episode: Tariffs to hit a dinner table favorite: Italian pasta
Date: November 11, 2025
Host: David Brancaccio
Reporter: Matt Levin, Savannah Peters

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Episode Overview

This episode explores a range of pressing economic topics, with the spotlight on newly announced U.S. tariffs on Italian pasta and their potential ripple effects for importers, consumers, and U.S.-Italy relations. The show also updates listeners on U.S. employment data and reports from New Mexico, where statewide universal daycare subsidies are reshaping the childcare market.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. U.S. Tariffs on Italian Pasta

[01:01 - 03:08]

• Introduction to Tariffs:
  David Brancaccio cues up the show with a personal touch, describing his pasta preferences before introducing the news that tariffs will nearly double prices of Italian-made pasta for U.S. consumers, labeling it as a response to “dumping.”

  • “Get set for fettuccine, spaghetti, cavatelli, fusilli, farfalla and my personal favorite, strozza pretti. Made in Italy. They get a lot more expensive than made in America macaroni. The Italians have been selling overly cheap. It's called dumping. And now come tariffs that'll nearly double the price of made in Italy Pasta.”
    —David Brancaccio [01:13]

• Impact on Small Businesses:
  Matt Levin speaks with Bennett Fraboni, co-owner of Fraboni's Italian Specialties in Wisconsin, who describes Italians pastas’ unique texture and says some of the roughly 92% tariff will inevitably be passed to his customers.

  • “They hold their texture...They don't turn into a big glob.”
    —Bennett Fraboni [02:12]

  • “I do worry that we'll lose people to buying stuff from, you know, the big grocery stores, but I try not to lose any sleep over it.”
    —Bennett Fraboni [02:18]

• Broader Trade Implications:
  Ed Gresser, economist at the Progressive Policy Institute, predicts backlash in Italy and more tension in U.S.-Italy trade relations.

  • “I can easily imagine the Italian public...Typical guy in Siena or Palermo will notice this and they may be quite upset about it or feel like I want my government to do something about this.”
    —Ed Gresser (as paraphrased by Matt Levin) [02:45]

• Economic Scale:
  Italy exported over $700 million in pasta to the U.S. last year.

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2. Fatherly Pasta Preferences

[03:08]

• Memorable Moment:
  David Brancaccio shares a memory about his father’s strong rules for pairing sauces with the correct pasta shapes.

  • “My dad, Professor Pat Brancaccio, used to absolutely no wiggle room insist that there is a right pasta and a wrong pasta for certain sauces. Like it's gotta be linguine if it's clam sauce and never farfalla for Bolognese. However, I recall he was just fine about buying domestic.”
    —David Brancaccio [03:08]

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3. Labor Market Update Amid Government Shutdown

[03:08 - 04:02]

• ADP’s Weekly Jobs Data:
  With typical government data delayed by a shutdown, ADP's more frequent reporting fills the gap, but the latest figures show a weakening job market.

  • “We are taking a look at everything we can get our hands on and perhaps a more timely indicator, something that comes out weekly with about a two week lag, will give us a more real time read on what's going on in the labor market. And unfortunately right now it's saying that we're losing jobs on average over the last four weeks.”
    —Jeffrey Cleveland, Chief Economist at Paden and Riegel [03:41]

• Economist’s Concern:
  Cleveland signals greater worry about job losses than rising inflation.

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4. New Mexico’s Universal Daycare Subsidy

[05:08 - 08:36]

• Expansive Daycare Subsidy:
  Savannah Peters visits the Little Corral Day School in Albuquerque, where a state subsidy funded by oil and gas revenues now covers all families’ daycare costs.

• Provider Perspective:
  Natalie Aragon, director, is pleased about improved financial stability but worries about new competitive pressures, as her previous affordability advantage is erased.

  • “In the past we kept our rates low and a lot of families came to us because we were a lot cheaper.”
    —Natalie Aragon [06:42]
  • “We're trying to figure out like where do we market to now? And I believe in our quality and care that that will keep our families. But now people have a lot more options.”
    —Natalie Aragon [06:56]

• Quality & Competition:
  Economist Jessica Brown (U. of South Carolina) warns that marketing and image might initially win out over real quality, challenging centers without sizeable advertising budgets.

  • “Parents aren't very good at judging the quality of care, unfortunately, and so that does make it harder for the providers to compete on like actual quality.”
    —Jessica Brown [07:05]

• Implementation Pains:
  The anticipated surge in demand didn’t materialize immediately, but staff wages were increased in hopeful preparation.

  • “I think a lot of people were like, oh, did you guys get a ton of new kids a day? We're like, no, but we hope we do.”
    —Natalie Aragon [08:08]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “They hold their texture...They don't turn into a big glob.”
  —Bennett Fraboni [02:12]

• “I do worry that we'll lose people to buying stuff from, you know, the big grocery stores, but I try not to lose any sleep over it.”
  —Bennett Fraboni [02:18]

• “Parents aren't very good at judging the quality of care, unfortunately, and so that does make it harder for the providers to compete on like actual quality.”
  —Jessica Brown [07:05]

• “My dad, Professor Pat Brancaccio, used to absolutely no wiggle room insist that there is a right pasta and a wrong pasta for certain sauces.”
  —David Brancaccio [03:08]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Pasta Tariffs and Small Business Impact: 01:01 – 03:08
• Father’s Pasta Rules: 03:08
• Labor Market Update: 03:08 – 04:02
• Universal Daycare in New Mexico: 05:08 – 08:36

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Tone and Style

Brancaccio’s delivery blends wry humor and warmth (“my personal favorite, strozza pretti”), while the episode maintains an accessible yet informative style. Sources offer practical business and economic analyses but share relatable personal touches (e.g., pasta texture, family-run daycares).

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Useful for listeners seeking:
A concise but thorough catch-up on economic news—especially U.S. trade policy (and its culinary consequences), labor market updates during a government data blackout, and public policy’s complex impact at the local daycare level.

Transcript

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[Matt Levin]

Trempharadio.Com this Marketplace podcast is supported by.

[David Brancaccio]

Wealth Enhancement who ask do you have a blueprint for your money? Wealth Enhancement can help you build the right blueprint for investing, retirement, tax and more. With offices nationwide, there's an advisor who's ready to listen and craft a blueprint for your future. Find out [e-mail] build basta pasta I'm David Brancaccio in Los Angeles. Good morning to you. Get set for fettuccine, spaghetti, cavatelli, fusilli, farfalla and my personal favorite, strozza pretti. Made in Italy. They get a lot more expensive than made in America macaroni. The Italians have been selling overly cheap. It's called dumping. And now come tariffs that'll nearly double the price of made in Italy Pasta Marketplace's Matt Levin apparently pasta from the.

[Matt Levin]

Old world really does taste different. It's why Bennett Furboni uses imported Italian pasta for his lasagna and spaghetti dishes. He's the co owner of Fraboni's Italian Specialties and Delicatessen outside Madison, Wisconsin.

[David Brancaccio]

These Italian pastas act differently after they.

[Matt Levin]

Come out and they're sauced and they're.

[David Brancaccio]

Put in a dish.

[Matt Levin]

They hold their texture.

[David Brancaccio]

They don't turn into a big glob.

[Matt Levin]

Fraboni also sells uncooked Italian pastas for his customers to make at home. He says he'd have to pass at least part of a 92% tariff on to customers. I do worry that we'll lose people to buying stuff from, you know, the big grocery stores, but I try not to lose any sleep over it. The pasta tariffs come at a stressful time for us. Italian trade relations economist Ed Gresser at the Progressive Policy Institute says adding a fight over something as fundamentally Italian as pasta could make things worse.

[David Brancaccio]

I can easily imagine the Italian public.

[Matt Levin]

Typical guy in Siena or Palermo will notice this and they may be quite upset about it or feel like I want my government to do something about this. Italy exported more than $700 million worth of pasta to the US last year. I'm Matt Levin for Marketplace.

[David Brancaccio]

My dad, Professor Pat Brancaccio, used to absolutely no wiggle room insist that there is a right pasta and a wrong pasta for certain sauces. Like it's gotta be linguine if it's clam sauce and never farfalla for Bolognese. However, I recall he was just fine about buying domestic with no government jobs data coming out because of the government shutdown, private sector research has been stepping up. The payroll company ADP now has not just monthly but weekly updates, and the latest one today came in soft. Let's get a take from Jeffrey Cleveland, chief economist at Paden and Riegel.

[Matt Levin]

We are taking a look at everything we can get our hands on and perhaps a more timely indicator, something that comes out weekly with about a two week lag, will give us a more real time read on what's going on in the labor market. And unfortunately right now it's saying that we're losing jobs on average over the last four weeks.

[David Brancaccio]

He says he's more worried now about the job market getting weaker than he is about inflation going higher.

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[David Brancaccio]

Marketplace's Savannah Peters has been covering New Mexico's new project to subsidize daycare for every family in that state, regardless of income. The money's from oil and gas production. We've met a family near Albuquerque today. How daycare can help businesses here Savannah.

[Savannah Peters]

Little Corral Day School serves Albuquerque's east side.

[Natalie Aragon]

So this is our threes class. They're having snacks.

[Savannah Peters]

What are you having for snackers? Director Natalie Aragon is giving me a tour. Next stop, the Infant Room, where I meet veteran teacher Ms. Daisy, who's been here long enough to remember Eragon's Little Corral days.

[Matt Levin]

Look at that.

[Savannah Peters]

Used to be one of my babies.

[David Brancaccio]

When she was a baby.

[Savannah Peters]

Baby girl, really. Ms. Nauli was one of my little friend. ABQ Childcare, that's the nonprofit that runs this and three other daycares around the city, is a family operation started by Aragon's grandparents.

[Natalie Aragon]

We've been in business for over 50 years, serving the community.

[Savannah Peters]

Over the years, Aragon's family has seen a lot of changes to New Mexico's childcare market, but none as seismic or as sudden as the recent announcement that the state will cover all families daycare bills.

[Natalie Aragon]

I was of course excited for our families.

[Savannah Peters]

And Aragon says the state reimbursement is more than what she charged for private pay tuition, which should help stabilize her very low margin operation. But she has some reservations.

[Natalie Aragon]

In the past we kept our rates low and a lot of families came to us because we were a lot cheaper.

[Savannah Peters]

ABQ Childcare's pitch was affordability. It attracted families with military and teacher discounts.

[Natalie Aragon]

We're trying to figure out like where do we market to now? And I believe in our quality and care that that will keep our families. But now people have a lot more options.

[Savannah Peters]

ABQ Childcare has a highly trained staff, low kid to teacher ratios. What it doesn't have is a big marketing budget. Parents aren't very good at judging the quality of care, unfortunately, and so that does make it harder for the providers to compete on like actual quality. Jessica Brown is an economist who studies childcare markets at the University of South Carolina. She says it's possible this new system could initially favor centers that attract parents with glossy websites promising organic snacks, stimulating STEM activities and backyard chicken coops. While other centers have to recalibrate their business models. I think there's going to be a lot of adjustment cost to the policy. It does take some time to iron out the details and figure out the best way to respond. Brown says if the change spurs more demand for child care, that would smooth things out. Natalie Aragon was ready for a surge in applications come November 1st, but at least so far has only seen a trickle.

[Natalie Aragon]

I think a lot of people were like, oh, did you guys get a ton of new kids a day? We're like, no, but we hope we do.

[Savannah Peters]

To match that possible boost in enrollment Aragon is also doubling down on hiring efforts. ABQ Childcare just raised its starting wage to 16 an hour in response to an incentive from the state, a move that Eragon hopes will pencil out and pay off. In Albuquerque, I'm Savannah Peters for Marketplace.

[David Brancaccio]

Marketplace Online has more on Savannah's reporting on New Mexico's daycare plans. I'm David Brancaccios, Marketplace Morning Report from apm, American Public Media.

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[David Brancaccio]

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I'm Amy Scott. This season on How We Survive. We investigate how the climate crisis is threatening our most vital food systems and how scientists are racing to develop alternatives that will shape the future of food. Listen to this season of How We Survive on your favorite podcast. Apparently.