The November jobs report, finally

Summary

Marketplace Morning Report: "The November jobs report, finally"

Date: December 16, 2025
Host: Sabri Benishore (in for David Brancaccio)
Key Contributors: Mitchell Hartman, David Brand
Episode Length: ~8 minutes (excluding ads and credits)

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Overview

This episode of the Marketplace Morning Report focuses on two main topics: the long-awaited and delayed November U.S. jobs report (following a government shutdown) and a developing story on systematic mortgage interest overcharges in New York foreclosure cases. The episode offers crucial context on economic labor indicators, the reliability of official reports, challenges facing small businesses and consumers, and an in-depth investigative look at how foreclosure interest calculations are impacting homeowners.

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1. The Delayed November Jobs Report

• [00:19]
  Sabri Benishore sets up the urgency and impact of the delayed monthly jobs report from the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), which is nearly a week late due to the recent government shutdown.
  • Reports that the October jobs data will be incomplete: "We'll never get a full October jobs report... just a piece of it." (00:23)
  • Economist predictions for November: Expecting 40,000–50,000 jobs added and an unemployment rate around 4.4%.

Key Insights & Discussion

• [01:07]
  Mitchell Hartman reports on alternative jobs data gathered during the delay, noting that private firms like Revelio Labs estimated a net job loss:

  • "Revelio Labs estimated employers cut 9,000 jobs in November," says Lisa Simon, chief economist. (01:14)
  • Quote:
    • Lisa Simon: "So not a huge decline. Basically hovering around that, you know, zero." (01:22)
  • Weak sectors: Leisure and hospitality, retail, transportation, warehousing, and manufacturing.

• [01:42]
  Homebase (a small business HR firm) noticed further retrenchment among small businesses:

  • John Waldman, CEO:
    • "We saw a lot of conservatism from small businesses pulling back on both team sizes and hours." (01:52)

• [01:59]
  Broader economic consequences emerge as consumer-level labor market pressures build:

  • Chapman University economist Jim Doty describes "low growth in real wages and extreme weakness on the labor front. Job growth is much less than what's being reported." (02:06)

• [02:14]
  Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell recently suggested that BLS may be overestimating job gains by roughly 60,000 per month over the last few months.

  • "Fed Chair Powell warned of this in his press conference last week..." (02:14)

Memorable Quotes

• Lisa Simon (Revelio Labs):

  • "So not a huge decline. Basically hovering around that, you know, zero." (01:22)

• John Waldman (Homebase):

  • "We saw a lot of conservatism from small businesses pulling back on both team sizes and hours." (01:52)

• Jim Doty (Chapman University):

  • "Low growth in real wages and extreme weakness on the labor front, Job growth is much less than what's being reported." (02:06)

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2. Investigation: Alleged Mortgage Interest Overcharges in NY Foreclosures

Topic Setup

• [04:18]
  Sabri Benishore introduces accusations against several big banks in New York for systematic fraud, specifically overcharging interest during the foreclosure process and shrinking the payouts to people who lose their homes.

Key Discussion Points

• The Disputed Calculation Method (05:02):

  • David Brand (WNYC/Gothamist) explains the technicalities:
    • After a foreclosure motion is filed, but before a judge rules, lenders can charge interest. The crux: whether this interest should accrue on the full judgment amount or just the unpaid principal balance.
    • Extended legal delays can last "many months or even many years" during which interest continues to accrue.

• Impact on Homeowners (Anecdotes & Data) (05:55):

  • Brand highlights a Brooklyn homeowner (three-family house in Flatbush) who lost her home, possibly receiving $24,000 less than she should have because of the calculation method.
  • The investigation uncovered "7,400 instances" of the bank-favored method in cases reviewed.

• Legal and Systemic Implications (06:51):

  • Brand observes: "many more times, often than not, the calculation method that favors the big institution is the one that's being used."
  • Contradictory methods are applied, sometimes "in the same courthouse, maybe on the same day," with courts not intervening despite concerns about legality or fairness.

• Government Response (07:22):

  • New York State Senator Zellnor Myrie has proposed legislation to standardize interest calculation practices in foreclosures.
    • The bill would mandate that interest be calculated only on unpaid principal, not on a larger judgment amount.

Notable Quotes

• David Brand (WNYC/Gothamist):
  • Explanation of methods:
    • "The question is, should that interest accumulate on that judgment amount or should it accumulate on the unpaid principal balance?" (05:50)
  • On discovery:
    • "We found 7,400 instances." (06:42)
  • On systemic pattern:
    • "Many more times, often than not, the calculation method that favors the big institution is the one that's being used..." (06:51)

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3. Additional Resources & Credits

• [08:05]
  Sabri Benishore suggests listeners check out WNYC's "NYC Now" podcast for more coverage of the foreclosure investigation.
• Producer credits are acknowledged, reinforcing commitment to thorough reporting.

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Key Takeaways

• Jobs Data May Be More Troubling Than It Seems:
  Initial government figures (when released) are expected to be positive but may be overstated; private analysts and the Fed warn that true labor market growth is weaker, especially in key sectors and for small businesses.

• Foreclosure Practices Under Scrutiny in NY:
  Thousands of homeowners may have lost out on significant sums due to opaque and inconsistent interest calculation methods during foreclosure—fueling legislative efforts for reform.

• Ongoing Legislative Response:
  New York is acting to close loopholes and protect homeowners from systemic financial disadvantages amid foreclosure.

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• Jobs Report Context & Expectations: [00:19]–[01:07]
• Private Sector Job Data & Labor Market Analysis: [01:07]–[02:25]
• Mortgage Foreclosure Overcharging Investigation: [04:18]–[08:03]

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This concise-yet-detailed episode delivers essential economic context in less than 10 minutes, while capturing both the complexity and urgency of the issues discussed.

Transcript

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[Sabri Benishore]

From Marketplace, I'm Sabri Benishore, in for David Brancaccio. How many jobs did the US Economy gain or lose last month? We are going to find out in a little less than two hours. The numbers are about a week late. The folks at the Bureau of Labor Statistics needed a minute to catch up after the government shutdown. The shutdown is also the reason why we will never get a full October jobs report. Instead, we'll get just a piece of it. Economists have an idea of what the November numbers are going to look like 40 to 50,000 jobs added with an unemployment rate of about 4.4%. But this report is just a first pass. It'll get revised a few times as time goes on. And as Marketplace's Mitchell Hartman reports, the actual final numbers might be a little more dismal.

[Mitchell Hartman]

While BLS delayed its monthly jobs reports, some private economic outfits were filling the data gap. Revelio Labs estimated employers cut 9,000 jobs in November, says chief economist Lisa Simon.

[Alteryx Announcer]

So not a huge decline. Basically hovering around that, you know, zero.

[Mitchell Hartman]

Growth mark and the sector shedding jobs not promising for the holiday shopping and.

[Alteryx Announcer]

Eating out season, leisure and hospitality, retail trade, transportation, warehousing and manufacturing. So all of these blue collar sectors.

[Mitchell Hartman]

Small business HR firm Homebase saw retrenchment in November as well, with worries mounting about prices and tariffs, says CEO John Waldman.

[David Brand]

We saw a lot of conservatism from small businesses pulling back on both team sizes and hours.

[Mitchell Hartman]

Also, labor market pressures are now mounting on consumers, says Chapman University economist Jim Doty.

[David Brand]

Low growth in real wages and extreme weakness on the labor front, Job growth is much less than what's being reported.

[Mitchell Hartman]

Fed Chair Powell warned of this in his press conference last week, saying it's likely. BLS has been overestimating job gains recently to the tune of about 60,000amonth.

[David Brand]

I'm Mitchell Hartman for Marketplace.

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[Sabri Benishore]

In New York, several big banks have been accused of systematic fraud, depriving people who have lost their homes to foreclosure of millions of dollars and saddling them with extra debt. It's a complex story, but it boils down to the way in which lenders are charging interest on mortgages while everyone is waiting for the foreclosure to be completed. The central question Are homeowners getting a smaller slice of the home sale because banks are overcharging on interest? For more on this, let's welcome David Brand, who's investigating this at WNYC and Gothamist. Good morning, David.

[David Brand]

Good morning.

[Sabri Benishore]

So let's get specific about these allegations. This this all has to do with a disputed method for calculating interest. It's a little complicated. Can you explain how it works?

[David Brand]

Sure. So before a home can be foreclosed on and sold at an auction, a judge has to actually approve that. Prior to that, the financial institution and the loan servicer handling the mortgage hire attorneys who calculate the debts and they submit a proposed judgment amount. And then when the judge approves that amount, the foreclosure sale can move forward. But what we found is that the time period between that motion and the judge actually issuing a ruling can be many months or even many years. And so during that time period, the financial institution, the lender can legally charge interest because interest is accruing. So the question is, should that interest accumulate on that judgment amount or should it accumulate on the unpaid Principal balance.

[Sabri Benishore]

This has hit some New Yorkers pretty hard. Can you share some examples of what you found?

[David Brand]

Sure. So we focused on one homeowner in particular. She had a three family home in Flatbush, Brooklyn. Her father was living in the building and taking care of things. They had a tenant renting two units. Her father was diagnosed with Alzheimer's. His capacities were slipping. She said she didn't realize that the tenant wasn't paying rent. Ultimately, she lost the home to foreclosure at an auction sale. She did receive some money from the sale, but her attorney says because of the method of interest calculation, she should have received about $24,000 more than she did get. So we saw that and we started looking at thousand dozens of other cases to see how these disputed interest calculations, how often they were being used. And we found 7,400 instances.

[Sabri Benishore]

Is this ultimately a story about big institutions kind of squashing the little guy, or is the picture more murky than that?

[David Brand]

Well, what we found is that many more times, often than not, the calculation method that favors the big institution is the one that's being used. So we, but not prosecutors, we are not saying whether that's illegal or not, that's up to a judge, that's up to the state. But what we do see is these two contradictory methods happening at the same time, often in the same courthouse, maybe on the same day. One that favors the financial institution, one that favors the former homeowner. And the state court system is allowing this to proceed despite evidence that one of the ways might be wrong.

[Sabri Benishore]

There has been a government response to your reporting. New York State Senator Zellnor Myre, he's introduced new legislation. What do you think of that?

[David Brand]

You know, in our reporting, we heard that that would go a long way to just kind of standardize this process throughout the state. The other portion of the bill is to actually standardize what amount they're calculating interest on. And he says that he thinks it's illegal to calculate interest on a judgment amount prior to judgment and that they should be calculating interest on the unpaid principal balance. And he says that's what he hopes his legislation will accomplish.

[Sabri Benishore]

David Brand is reporter at Gothamist and wnyc. Thank you so much.

[David Brand]

Thank you.

[Sabri Benishore]

And you can learn more by listening to WNYC's podcast. It's called NYC Now. Our producers are Emma Condon, Tamar Fagan, Ashley Rodriguez, Ariana Rosas and Erica Soderstrom. Our senior producer is Alex Schroeder. Our supervising senior producer is Meredith Garretts. And Morby in New York. I'm Sabri Benishore with the Marketplace Morning Report. From apm, American Public Media.

[Marketplace Host]

As we head toward the end of the year, Marketplace is here to help you make sense of the economy, what's happening, why it matters, and how it affects you. If this reporting has been valuable to you in 2025, consider becoming a Marketplace investor. Your support powers independent journalism that cuts through the noise and delivers clarity when it counts. Donate [e-mail] or click the link in the show Notes.