The view of tariffs from the Santa Fe Indian Market

Summary

Marketplace Morning Report — August 20, 2025
Episode Title: The view of tariffs from the Santa Fe Indian Market
Host: David Brancaccio
Key Correspondents: Justin Ho, Savannah Peters, BBC’s Davina Gupta

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Overview

This episode delves into the interconnections between global economics and everyday lives, spotlighting the effects of tariffs on artists at the renowned Santa Fe Indian Market. The episode also briefly covers current U.S. mortgage trends, an update on India-China direct flights, and ends with commentary on Target’s financial performance. Notably, the main focus centers on how shifting trade policies and tariffs are impacting Indigenous artists from Canada participating in the Santa Fe Indian Market, their businesses, and the broader art community.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. U.S. Housing and Mortgage Market Update

[00:33–01:57]

• Mortgage Rates:
  • Marginal decrease in 30-year fixed rates: now ~6.6% (down from 6.8%)
  • Deemed not “a game changer” by experts, as most homeowners have locked in lower rates from previous years.
• Market Dynamics:
  • Mark Fleming (Chief Economist, First America): Most homeowners face a financial penalty if they move due to the “lock-in effect.”
  • Charlie Doherty (Senior Economist, Wells Fargo) & Savannah Peters: Labor market strength has diminished, affecting homebuying sentiment.

    “We’ve transitioned from a generally strong labor market to one that’s more, you know, weak.” — Savannah Peters [01:28]

  • Chris Duncan (La Salle State Bank): Home construction is sluggish, with persistently high prices and limited inventory.
  • Mortgage demand slightly higher than last year but still below pre-pandemic levels.

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2. India-China Direct Flights Resume After Five Years

[02:07–03:17]

• Background:
  • Flights were suspended due to the pandemic and a 2020 border clash.
  • Before the ban, 500+ flights monthly between the two countries.
• Current Developments:
  • Both governments agree to reinstate direct flights and relax visa rules.
  • Move comes amid heightened pressure from new U.S. tariffs and aims to normalize trade relations.
  • China remains India’s second-largest trading partner.

    “Resuming direct air connectivity is seen as a step towards normalizing economic relations between the two Asian giants.” — Davina Gupta [02:58]

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3. Tariffs Disrupt Santa Fe Indian Market for Canadian Indigenous Artists

[03:50–06:58]

• Santa Fe Indian Market:
  • Annual gathering of 1,000+ artists from 200+ tribal nations, many from Canada.
  • This year, the U.S.-China trade war and increased tariffs are complicating participation and sales.
• Artist Experiences:

  • Ben Sickles (Oneida Silversmith, Nova Scotia):

    • Imports all silver from New Mexico, as local supply is insufficient.
    • Impact of Tariffs:
      • Since March, faces a 25% tariff on silver imports; coupled with global price spikes, it’s “almost impossible to stay in business.”

      “I have to import it all from New Mexico because Canada doesn’t really have what we need.” — Ben Sickles [04:26]
      “Everybody’s hurting, right? You can’t fill a bag of groceries for 100 bucks. So they look at my jewelry and that’s a bag of groceries a few booths down.” — Ben Sickles [04:55]

    • Raised jewelry prices from $80 to $100, but sales have declined.

  • Jessica Winters (Inuit Painter):

    • Fewer sales, but some interest from U.S. curators.
    • Indirect impact: Her longtime printmaker in Canada closed due to tariffs on U.S. paper imports.

      “I have a printmaker… he’s been doing it for 50 years but had to close shop because of tariffs on his paper imported into Canada from the U.S.” — Jessica Winters [05:27]

    • Now struggling to find someone to reproduce her work.
    • Canadian artists benefit from a handmade art exemption when carrying works over the border, but other challenges persist.

  • Consultant Wendy Diltz:

    • Advised artists to keep travel/exhibition plans discreet due to customs scrutiny.

      “Normally I’d have reached out to museums or buyers, but we didn’t want anything out there prior to their entry to avoid drawing the attention of U.S. customs and Border Protection.” — Wendy Diltz [06:17]

    • Only 5 out of 12 planned artists were able to make the trip.

  • Shane Perley-Dutcher (Maliseet Mixed Media Artist, New Brunswick):

    • Faces additional obstacles crossing the U.S.-Canada border due to identity and tribal territory straddling both nations.

      “Yeah, being the color I am, I have to worry crossing the border.” — Shane Perley-Dutcher [06:36]

    • Still stresses the importance of the Santa Fe Indian Market for Indigenous artists’ exposure and sales.

      “I mean, this is such a big, big support to the artists that we have to come here, right?” — Shane Perley-Dutcher [06:43]

    • His trip resulted in two first-place ribbons and significant sales.

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4. Corporate News: Target’s Financials

[07:02–07:34]

• Earnings Beat Expectations:
  • Quarterly results surpass forecasts, but stock down 8.5%.
• Brand Challenges:
  • Perceived drop in style and product selection, customer complaints over DEI initiative cancellations.
  • Announcement of a new CEO to start in February.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Everybody’s hurting, right? You can’t fill a bag of groceries for 100 bucks. So they look at my jewelry and that’s a bag of groceries a few booths down.” — Ben Sickles [04:55]

• “I have a printmaker…he’s been doing it for 50 years but had to close shop because of tariffs on his paper imported into Canada from the U.S.” — Jessica Winters [05:27]

• “Yeah, being the color I am, I have to worry crossing the border.” — Shane Perley-Dutcher [06:36]

• “I mean, this is such a big, big support to the artists that we have to come here, right?” — Shane Perley-Dutcher [06:43]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Mortgage Market Update: 00:33–01:57
• India-China Flights: 02:07–03:17
• Santa Fe Indian Market & Tariff Impacts: 03:50–06:58
• Target Earnings: 07:02–07:34

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Conclusion

This episode illustrates how macroeconomic policy choices—like tariffs—directly shape the livelihoods of individual artists and communities, going far beyond abstract statistics. From struggling homebuyers to Indigenous artists navigating a complex web of trade rules and border scrutiny, Marketplace examines the fragility and resilience within today’s interconnected global economy.

Transcript

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[David Brancaccio]

Art Meets Tariffs. I'm David Brancaccio in Los Angeles. First, there's been a slight adjustment down in the cost of home loans. 30 year fixed rate mortgages, not much from 6.8% a month ago to about 6.6%. Something to write home about? Don't think so. Here's Marketplace's Justin Ho.

[Justin Ho]

Mortgage rates have come down, but not that much. You know, that's not a game changer for the majority of people in the housing market. Mark Fleming is chief economist with First America. He says the vast majority of homeowners are sitting on mortgages with rates well below where they are right now. And that means that most of them will still experience the lock in effect or the financial penalty if they were to move. Fleming says anyone who does buy a home is going to do so because of a life event like landing a new job. But job creation has been slowing down over the last few months.

[Choice Hotels Spokesperson]

China.

[Justin Ho]

Charlie Doherty is senior economist with Wells Fargo.

[Kai Ryssdal]

You know, we've transitioned from a generally.

[Savannah Peters]

Strong labor market to one that's more, you know, weak.

[Kai Ryssdal]

I think that's causing some folks to kind of rethink home purchases.

[Justin Ho]

Meanwhile, housing prices are still out of reach for many people because there aren't many houses for sale. Chris Duncan, senior loan officer at La Salle State bank in Illinois, says in his market, home construction has slowed to a crawl.

[David Brancaccio]

Any inventory that does become available, properties are selling at extraordinarily high prices.

[Justin Ho]

Duncan says mortgage demand at La Salle State bank is slightly higher than it was last year, but it's still below where it was before the pandemic. I'm Justin Ho for Marketplace.

[David Brancaccio]

It has been five years, but India and China will now restart direct flights. Here's the BBC's Davina Gupta.

[Audience Member]

Flights between India and China were halted during the pandemic and remained suspended after the deadly border clash in the Himalayan and region of Ladakh in 2020. Before the ban, over 500 flights operated every month. But the restrictions, along with tight visa rules, hit airlines, passengers and trade hard. Now with pressure mounting from US Tariffs, Delhi and Beijing are trying to reset ties. During Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi's visit to Delhi this week, both sides agreed to finalize on air services agreement to start direct flights at the earliest ease visa rules and continue border talks. China is still India's second largest trading partner, and resuming direct air connectivity is seen as a step towards normalizing economic relations between the two Asian giants.

[Choice Hotels Spokesperson]

Choice hotels get you more for your money so you can maximize any road trip. And as your vacation maximizationer, I'm going to make sure you hear the the maximum sizzle of Comfort Inn's free hot breakfast. Let's get real close. Maximum apple. Now that's fresh crispomization. Maximum waffle. Hear that crunch? And that's maximum coffee. Oh yeah, that's the pour I'm talking about. M breakfast maximized before hitting the road, check into more book [e-mail].

[David Brancaccio]

The acclaimed Santa Fe Indian Market draws over 1,000 indigenous artists from more than 200 tribal nations every year, including many from Canada. But this year, the trade war is a complication. Here's Savannah Peters.

[Savannah Peters]

Oneida silversmith Ben sickles traveled over 4,500 miles to Santa Fe Indian Market, all the way from Nova Scotia. He's known for his earrings and cuffs, made in the Eastern Woodlands tradition.

[Interviewee / Artist]

It's derived from the trade silver that came from Europe in the 1760s, traded for furs and other goods.

[Savannah Peters]

But these days, Sickles pays cash for his silver, and it doesn't come from Europe.

[Interviewee / Artist]

Well, I have to import it all from New Mexico because Canada doesn't really have what we need.

[Savannah Peters]

And since March, his orders have been slapped with a 25% tariff. On top of that, global uncertainty has sent silver prices surging.

[Interviewee / Artist]

It's almost impossible stay in business.

[Savannah Peters]

Now Sickles picks up a small pair of silver earrings. A year ago, he would have priced them around $80. He's had to raise that to 100, and his sales are down.

[Interviewee / Artist]

Everybody's hurting, right? You can't fill a bag of groceries for 100 bucks. So they look at my jewelry and that's a bag of groceries a few booths down.

[Savannah Peters]

Inuit painter Jessica Winters isn't making many sales either, but some American curators are interested in commissioning her paintings of crafters at work, just scenes from normal life in an Inuit community. Winters isn't sure if those deals will be complicated by tariffs, but says the trade war has disrupted her business in another way. I have a printmaker who's this guy who just works out of his basement he's been doing it for 50 years but had to close shop because of tariffs on his paper imported into Canada from the U.S. winters is looking for a new partner to make prints of her work. So far as she's striking out, it could be worse. I think at least I'm still Canadian. These Canadian artists didn't pay a tariff when carrying their work across the border thanks to a carve out for handmade art. That's according to a consultant they worked with. Wendy Diltz. I can tell you a bigger concern was traveling to the US early this year. Diltz was working with a dozen Canadian Canadian artists who planned to exhibit in Santa Fe. In the end, only five made the trip. She advised them to keep their plans under wraps. Normally I would have reached out to museums or buyers, but we didn't want anything out there prior to their entry to avoid drawing the attention of U.S. customs and Border Protection. Mixed media artist Shane Perley Dutcher is Maliseet from New Brunswick. His tribe's traditional territory straddles what's now the U.S. canada border.

[Interviewee / Artist]

Yeah, being the color I am, I have to worry crossing the border.

[Savannah Peters]

But Santa Fe Indian Market is a can't miss opportunity to grow his business.

[Interviewee / Artist]

I mean, this is such a big, big support to the artists that we have to come here, right?

[Savannah Peters]

And the trip paid off. Pearly Dutcher went back to Canada with two first place ribbons for his metal woven baskets and some big sales in Santa Fe. I'm Savannah Peters for Marketplace at Target.

[David Brancaccio]

Sales are down, but quarterly results today beat forecasts. Still, the Stock is down 8.5% now. Target was once known for stylish offerings, which shoppers now complain it's gone Blah. Some avoid Target because it was quick to cancel some of its diversity, equity and inclusion initiatives. Today the chain announced a new CEO will take over, but not until February. The current chief operating officer in Los Angeles, I'm David Brancaccio. It's the Marketplace morning report from APM American Public Media.

[Kai Ryssdal]

Hey everybody. I'm Kai Rysdal, the host of Marketplace. I'm going to join Amy Scott on September 9th. She's the host of How We Survive and also science writer Elizabeth Kolber. For a conversation about the economic consequences of our climate crisis. We're going to break down how the acceleration of climate change is going to disrupt jobs and entire industries, even our daily lives. But it's not all doom and gloom. We're also going to dive into the solutions that are giving us hope right now. Thanks so much to Odoo. For sponsoring this free webinar, and you can sign up [e-mail] climate.