AI hype in MarTech justified?

Summary

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MarTech Podcast™ – "AI hype in MarTech justified?"

Host: Benjamin Shapiro
Guest: Chris Golick (Founder & CEO, Channel 99, former founder of Demandbase)
Date: March 20, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the current surge of AI in marketing technology (MarTech), exploring whether the hype is justified or another passing bubble. Host Benjamin Shapiro speaks with Chris Golick, a veteran of B2B tech, about the rapid pace of AI-driven change, the "dark funnel" attribution problem, and how marketers should navigate AI’s transformative wave.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Dark Funnel Problem & Attribution Challenges

• Benjamin Shapiro introduces Chris Golick (01:15) as an innovator focused on solving the "dark funnel"—the web traffic and revenue that isn't traced to its source. Golick’s company, Channel 99, claims to uncover three times the website visitor data compared to industry norms.
  • Theme: Attribution is still a core challenge; many marketing dollars are wasted on leads or visitors that never convert.

The Rise of AI in Marketing’s Research Process

• Chris Golick highlights a fundamental shift: AI now conducts initial research and discovery instead of users manually visiting websites (01:42).
  • "When was the last time you actually visited a website to research something? For me, AI does all that work now. So if AI is doing the discovery research… who or what is your brand's website really for?" (01:43, Chris Golick)
• New AI-focused customer experience tools, like Scrunch, are emerging to help marketers understand how Large Language Models (LLMs) "see" their content and where they may be missing visibility or citations.

Is AI Hype Justified or Is This a Bubble?

• Benjamin Shapiro asks whether the current wave of AI in MarTech is overhyped or transformative (03:06).

Chris Golick’s Perspective:

• "I do think it's justified and I do think we'll see more transformation over this next year than we have in the last 10 years... The interoperability of all these different data sources, you'll be able to create, launch, optimize campaigns right from your gen AI solution." (03:23, Chris Golick)
• Predicts seamless interoperability where various SaaS products and data sources connect effortlessly via AI.

The Tsunami of Change: Pace and Market Impact

• Benjamin Shapiro draws a historical parallel to the mobile boom, noting that while mobile marketing took decades to peak, AI is accelerating change at an unprecedented rate and impacting company performance much faster:
  • "This is the tsunami... Mobile marketing to me was a huge transformative shift, but it took 20 years to roll out. This is hitting us so fast... it is happening so quickly and the models are getting so good..." (03:58, Benjamin Shapiro)
• Mentions the stock market volatility among SaaS companies as evidence of turbulent, fast-paced change.

Efficiency and Fat to Trim in B2B Marketing

• Chris Golick shares a striking statistic:
  • "75% of the dollars go to marketing and targeting, reaching, engaging companies that will never buy anything. So the upside is massive." (04:48, Chris Golick)
• The implication: AI-powered attribution and targeting could help redirect wasted spend and unlock substantial gains.

Automation, Reskilling & First-Mover Advantage

• Benjamin Shapiro expresses concern about rapid job evolution:

  • "There's a lot of people that are doing jobs that potentially become redundant. And the reskilling, I feel it already... I'm coding stuff, and in languages I don't understand because it can be translated into English." (05:13, Benjamin Shapiro)

• Observes that the pace of skill transformation is intense; while some will benefit, others risk being left behind.

• Chris Golick’s Call to Action:

  • "It's upon them to educate themselves and figure out like, how can I really leverage what this stuff is doing to benefit my company?" (06:17, Chris Golick)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the rapid evolution of AI:

  • "This is the tsunami. This is the big one... The world is shaking, the ground under us is moving and, you know, hopefully, we all end up with beachfront property." (05:38, Benjamin Shapiro)

• On marketing efficiency:

  • "75% of the dollars go to marketing and targeting, reaching, engaging companies that will never buy anything." (04:48, Chris Golick)

• On the responsibility to adapt:

  • "It's upon them to educate themselves and figure out like, how can I really leverage what this stuff is doing to benefit my company?" (06:17, Chris Golick)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:15: Introduction to Chris Golick & the "dark funnel"
• 01:42: The shift in discovery—AI as the new site visitor
• 03:06: AI hype: justified or bubble?
• 03:23: Golick’s take: Justified, transformative, interoperable
• 03:58: Shapiro: The pace & anxiety of rapid change
• 04:48: Marketing spend inefficiency (75% wasted)
• 05:13: Reskilling, job concerns, first-mover advantage
• 06:17: Golick’s advice – self-education and adaptation

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Conclusion

The episode paints AI as a justified revolution in MarTech, with higher velocity and broader impact than previous waves like mobile. Both host and guest agree: businesses must adapt quickly to survive, reskill their teams, and leverage AI’s measurement and targeting capabilities to avoid wasted spend. The ground is shifting fast—marketers who ride the wave stand to gain the most.

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Transcript

[Podcast Announcer]

The Martech Podcast is a proud member of the I Hear Everything Podcast Network. Looking to launch or scale your podcast, I Hear Everything delivers podcast production, growth and monetization solutions that transform your words into profit. Ready to give your brand a voice? Then visit iheareverything.com.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

From advertising to software as a service to data across all of our programs

[Chris Golick]

and clients, we've seen a 55 to 65% open rate.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

Getting brands authentically integrated into content performs better than TV advertising. Typical lifespan of an article is about 24 to 36 hours.

[Chris Golick]

We're reaching out to the right person with the right message and a clear call to action. Then it's just a matter of timing.

[Podcast Announcer]

Welcome to the Martech Podcast, a member of the I Hear Everything Podcast Network. In this podcast you'll hear the stories of world class marketers that you technology to drive business results and achieve career success. Here's the host of the Martech Podcast, Benjamin Shapiro

[Benjamin Shapiro]

I'm Benjamin Shapiro and joining me today is Chris Golick, the former founder of Demand Base and the current founder and CEO of Channel 99, a company that is solving marketing attribution challenges by revealing the source of three times the website visitors compared to your industry standards. And today, Chris is going to explain how to illuminate the dark funnel problem that is costing you millions in misattributed revenue.

[Chris Golick]

Time for a short break to hear from our sponsor, Scrunch. When was the last time you actually visited a website to research something? For me, AI does all that work now. So if AI is doing the discovery research and deciding who or what is your brand's website really for the rise of AI bots becoming as important as new visitors is a massive change in user behavior. And that's what Scrunch is taking head on. Scrunch is the AI customer experience platform that helps marketing teams understand how AI agents experience their site. They tell you how your brand shows up in LLM results, where it doesn't, and what's preventing your content from being retrieved, trusted or recommended. It's not just visibility. Scrunch shows you the content gaps, citation gaps, and how to fix the technical blockers that matter so your brand is found and chosen in AI answers. Face it, your most important site visitor isn't human anymore. It's the AI deciding what gets surfaced. And for Martech podcast listeners, Scrunch is providing a free website diagnostic that uncovers how AI sees your site, where you have content gaps and where you're showing up versus your competition. To see how LLMs evaluate your site, go to scrunch.com martech that's scrunch S C-R-U-N-C-H.com martech all right, last question for you.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

A little bit about the AI hype cycle. You've been through multiple waves of technology, working in mostly B2B tech for 25 years. Is the AI hype in martech justified or are we just in another bubble like the mobile or.com era?

[Chris Golick]

I do think it's justified and I do think we'll see more transformation over this next year than we have in the last 10 years. Just because I don't think it's. We're going to have this proliferation of SaaS products and interfaces and I think the interoperability of all these different data sources, you'll be able to create, launch, optimize campaigns right from your gen AI solution. As people start plugging in to gen, it's all going to be interoperable.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

It's dizzying to me and I agree. I am. This is the tsunami. Right. The iPhone was a huge. And mobile marketing to me was a huge transformative shift, but it took 20 years to roll out. This is hitting us so fast and it's the pace of change that concerns me. Not that we haven't gone through change before. Right. Like technology normally takes a long time to roll out. It is happening so quickly and the models are getting so good and we're able to create so much software and we're seeing it in the stock market now with the SaaS companies all seemingly tanking, who knows whether they'll rebound or not. That to me creates the anxiety and the concern is the pace, not necessarily the actual technology.

[Chris Golick]

Yeah, well, I mean, we have complete visibility into the efficiency of B2B marketing spend. And I don't know if it would surprise you that 75% of the dollars go to marketing and targeting, reaching, engaging companies that will never buy anything. So the upside is massive.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

Yeah, we definitely have a little fat to trim. I also think that the concern for me is there's a lot of people that are doing jobs that potentially become redundant. And the reskilling, I feel it already. Like I mentioned earlier in our conversation, I'm spending time in my computer's terminal not thinking about marketing or in front of a camera or dealing with clients. I'm coding stuff.

[Chris Golick]

Yeah.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

And. And in languages I don't understand because it can be translated into English. And so like the skill transformation is happening. It can be painful. It's great to be able to learn and Some people are going to get super wealthy trying to figure this out. And being a first mover advantage, there's going to be people that are laggards that I think are going to suffer. I definitely. And going back to the original question, I am of the camp that this is a tsunami. This is the big one, using a San Francisco metaphor. You know, earthquake jokes are no fun around here, but like the world is shaking, the ground under us is moving and you know, hopefully we all end up with beachfront property.

[Chris Golick]

Well, I think people, it's upon them to educate themselves and figure out like, how can I really leverage what this stuff is doing to benefit my company?

[Benjamin Shapiro]

Yeah. Well, Chris, congratulations on your past success, the success you're having with the current company. I think it's really interesting what you're doing and rethinking a problem that marketers have had for a really long time, understanding if their dollars are actually driving revenue in a coherent fashion. So thanks for coming on and being my guest.

[Chris Golick]

I appreciate it. Ben. Thank you.

And a special thanks to Scrunch for sponsoring this interview. Scrunch is the AI customer experience platform that helps marketing teams understand how AI agents experience their site. They tell you how your brand shows up in LLM results, where it doesn't, and what's preventing your content from being retrieved, trusted or recommended. And for Martech Podcast listeners, Scrunch is providing a free website diagnostic that uncovers how AI sees your site, where you have content gaps, and how you're showing up versus your competition. To see how LLMs evaluate your site, go to scrunch.com that's Scrunch S C R U N C H All right,

[Benjamin Shapiro]

that wraps up this episode of the Martech Podcast. Thanks to Chris Golick, the CEO and founder of Channel 99, for joining us. If you'd like to contact Chris, you can find a link to his LinkedIn profile in our show notes or on martechpod.com or you can visit his company's website at channel99.com and if you haven't subscribed yet and you want a daily stream of marketing and technology knowledge in your podcast feed, hit the subscribe button in your podcast app and we'll be back in your feed next week. All right, that's it for today, but until next time, my advice is to just focus on keeping your customers happy.

[Podcast Announcer]

Thanks for listening to the Martech podcast and I hear everything. Production Looking to launch or scale a podcast like this one for your brand? Then visit iheareverything. Com.