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Benjamin Shapiro
The Martech Podcast is a proud member of the iHear Everything Podcast Network. Looking to launch or scale your podcast, iHear everything delivers podcast production, growth and monetization solutions that transform your words into profit. Ready to give your brand a voice? Then visit iheareverything.com.
Doug Bell
From advertising to software.
Jadi Tillery
As a service to data across all of our programs and clients, we've seen a 55 to 65% open rate. Getting brands authentically integrated into content performs better than TV advertising.
Doug Bell
Typical life span of an article is about 24 to 36 hours.
Jadi Tillery
If we're reaching out to the right person with the right message and a clear call to action, then it's just a matter of timing.
Benjamin Shapiro
Welcome to the Martech Podcast, a member of the I Hear Everything Podcast Network. In this podcast, you'll hear the stories of world class marketers that use technology to drive business results and achieve career success. Here's the host of the Martech Podcast, Benjamin Shapiro.
Doug Bell
Welcome to the Martech Podcast I'm Benjamin Shapiro, the Executive Producer of the Martech Podcast and today we've got a special episode for you which is going to be guest hosted by Doug Bell, who's the CMO of Chief Outsiders. Doug is a veteran CMO with a background in helping growth stage B2B SaaS companies reach their true potential and I'm thrilled to invite him and some of his friends to take the microphone and share their knowledge with you, our loyal Martech Podcast listeners. Okay, here's a special episode of the Martech Podcast guest hosted by Doug Bell, the CMO of Chief Outsiders.
Jadi Tillery
Hello marketers, My name is Doug Bell from Chief Outsiders. Joining me today is Jadi Tillery, who is the founder and director at equay, which is committed to blending strategic vision with cutting edge technology to drive digital transformation for businesses and marketing teams. They specialize in empowering growth and providing strategic advisory services for private equity, venture capital, and companies seeking Series A and Series B investments. Yesterday, Jade and I talked about how fractional leadership roles are transforming the marketing landscape. And today we're going to dig in and talk about aligning your sales and marketing teams through social media.
Doug Bell
But before we get to today's interview, I want to tell you about what I'm listening to. Ever wanted to sit down to a candid conversation with marketing leaders from the world's biggest brands? The current podcast is your chance. On the current podcast you'll find exclusive interviews with the experts and trendsetters who are on the front lines of digital advertising. And they always leave the ad tech jargon at the door. So subscribe to the current@www.thecurrent.com or anywhere you get your podcasts today.
Jadi Tillery
Okay, here's my conversation with Jada Tillery. Jadi, welcome back.
Jade Tillery
Thank you so much. I loved our conversation and I'm ready for round two.
Jadi Tillery
I think we pulled apart the idea of fractional pretty well. I think this next topic's really interesting. And when we were talking before we started hitting the record button, we were talking a bit about your experience working with, if you will, sort of cutting edge at the time, changes to social media platforms. I want to get to that in a minute. But what I want to do is sort of set things up by understanding a little bit about the world that we're all functioning in as marketers. And recently Gartner came out as they do, and they talked about how much of the buying process is now occurring online. In other words, out of the purview, out of the reach of sellers. Gosh, was it two or three years ago it was 56%. Recently they said it was about 80%. Is occurring without really a lot of control by the sellers. In other words, marketing, as if you will, is becoming an arm of sales. So this idea of sales and marketing alignment becomes really, really important. So I think what we're talking about here really is social selling. Would you agree?
Jade Tillery
Yeah, I would absolutely agree with that. And to your point, we really have to understand how social media. So I've been in social media for forever. I've been in here. I had to ask my cousins in America to give access to Facebook. I've been on it since the early days. I wrote my master's dissertation on the nature of platforms and users. So really we have to understand that there has been a radical shift in terms of consumer behavior, and not just with Gen Z that we all want to think about. They're different to us, but actually across the board. And so many more people want to be able to do their own research and their own sort of exploring of it doesn't even matter what product or service or what price point. It's kind of irrelevant. People want to be empowered to find the knowledge themselves, which they're doing through social channels before they ever have any touch point with a human individual. People are just not engaging with people anymore in the ways that we have typically understood how sales and marketing would work. So it becomes incredibly important that sales and marketing are aligned. Otherwise sales channels become a bit of a bun fight. And there's huge reputational risk for organizations if they don't have clarity in terms of the alignment, the process and literally the guardrails. Because I love people within sales. I am not, you know, someone who is a chief revenue officer. I am a chief marketing officer or chief digital officer for a reason. It is a certain personality that is hugely successful within sales as a function and those people are very target orientated. And sometimes in my experience I've seen sort of cutting corners and having to undo reputational damage because of sales teams going a little bit rogue with their social selling. So it's really important that we have a big real conversation about how we approach our social channels and that there is alignment between sales and marketing both from our reputational but also from efficiency in terms of the time, money and effort that's invested in those channels.
Jadi Tillery
So look, I'm going to take us back in the time machine and say that five years ago traditional sales and marketing models were very much benefiting from the fact that you could outbound sales, emails, prospecting, phone calls, all that stuff and it would work well. That landscape has changed quite a bit and it's incredibly hard to outbound at the same time. I mentioned GARTNER earlier on, 80% of the buying cycle is occurring out of the control of the seller. So what I feel like we're talking about here, and I wouldn't mind having a quick discussion about this, is how the role of sales has got to change to sort of match up with the fact that most of the buying cycle is occurring without the sellers having any involvement. So how do sellers need to adapt in this new world?
Jade Tillery
It's interesting that you've asked that because yesterday we were talking about the fractional experience and I'm going to pull that in a little bit to this episode because as a fractional, although I may be coming under the guise of a chief marketing officer, really, I don't live in the marketing silo. I'm very keen to have conversations with your chief revenue officer, the entire sales team and also probably just me being a bit of a control freak. I also want to be talking to your customer experience and your customer success base because ultimately we're talking about a customer journey. And if the marketing is trying so hard to like craft things to bring you in whatever stage of the, you know, the sales funnel or the marketing funnel you're in and then someone in the sales team has been a little bit too aggressive, they've done direct off of their own social channels. That undoes the good work and it can turn off a potential lead, a potential customer, but it can also start to do some reputational damage if I'm really honest, because I've been in situations where I've had to unpick that. So I think it's really important that we understand that sales and marketing need to work very closely together to understand what are the guardrails of a approaching social selling. Yes, absolutely. You know, sales need to understand and be turned onto the idea of the power and the value of utilizing social channels, you know, for themselves. And that I absolutely do that. I go in and I'll do training and I'll empower people to understand how to utilize platforms, whether that's direct to consumer or business to business platforms, understand how to use them in the best way possible so that they feel empowered with that knowledge to go out and utilize those channels. But equally, there needs to be an understanding between sales and marketing in terms of what is and isn't done. Because I don't want someone in the sales team to be down on their targets and start to be really pushing through on the social channels and potentially undoing some of the good work or potentially opening us up to reputational risk. But what I would say is that I have a former colleague of mine who's sort of a rising star in very much the sales space and he mentors and supports bds and ads and he has a very clear plan that it isn't just about your outbound calls because as you say, those channels aren't working as well. But you need to be really knowledgeable if you want to have a successful career in sales. You need to be knowledgeable about utilizing those social channels, utilizing them well, and understanding how that fits in your overall mix as sort of a member of the sales team. So that is, I guess, a bit of a discussion point. But for me, sales and marketing need to be hugely aligned in terms of still continuing to create that brand affinity and connection and not have it undone because someone doesn't necessarily know the framework or the best practice or the ways that we need to work within for those channels in particular and how customers behave on them.
Jadi Tillery
I feel like when you have that channel conflict, if you will, you're seeing the sellers sort of. And by the way, if sellers are listening in, I'm with you. I sort of feel like there's this discipline that is not well understood. It is probably one of the most important disciplines in B2B. But these are smart, capable folks that by the way, are brilliant strategists and tacticians at the same time. But if you're working off an Old model. And that old model is get me a meeting, get me a conversation, and I'll do the magic. That's where I see the conflict happening, that channel conflict, which is sort of old model, new model. So it's the seller's not catching up. And I recently had a really good conversation with the founder of one of the more respected social media agencies out there who sort of broke this down for me in the following ways in talking about social selling. And they said, if you will, there are really three core aspects of social selling. Number one is what is my brand as a seller online? How am I representing myself? 1, 2, what type of network am I creating as a result of that brand? And then three, what am I doing to keep that network active in ways that when they have a challenge that I can solve for them, they raise their hands. So in other words, I'm thinking about and sorry, sellers, if you're listening in, it's not a big lift. Look at your LinkedIn profile, think about what you're good at and put that out there from a brand standpoint, that's what you want to post about, that's what you want to talk about. One, two, if you're not building your network every day, you've lost it. And the third thing is you're not driving towards lead or meeting what you're driving towards. Think about the best possible contact you could ever have from a company and that's when they reach out to you and they go, you know, I would really love to have a conversation with you. Those conversion rates are really high. So that was the best definition of social selling I've heard in a really long time to sort of help sellers? And I'd be curious, does that sort of square with how you're seeing the world? Is that a model that you would recommend and would that help close this alignment gap where marketing's sort of ahead of the curve on the digital side and sellers are catching up?
Jade Tillery
I think so, because what you've just talked about is basically continuing to keep the customer, the client central in your mind and being a value add. And that is always the very best place to start from in terms of your marketing and absolutely in terms of your sales. And I absolutely hats off. I cannot be a sales executive because that is not within my. I'm an introverted person. That is not within my skillset. So all respect and hats off to people within sales. And I think understanding if someone is feeling slightly overwhelmed by the shifting landscape or these new channels or trying to sort of enter into social selling. It really is about relationships. At the end of the day, it really is about creating a value add. It really is about the long tail and nurturing relationship and it's just doing it in a different way. And guess what? There are so many incredible tools and platforms and marketing technologies that can really help you with that process in terms of automation, in terms of creating rich media, video content, voice notes. Think about that. Like think about getting a voice note as opposed to just a static email from someone that brings you top of mind. It is a value add. It strengthens that relationship so that when that customer or client is ready to buy, they think you first because you've been in that nurturing process and you've been utilizing and honestly you've just been all over their feeds, like literally front of mind because you're constantly there, you're ever present. But in a way that is value add supportive understands their challenges and their needs as opposed to aggressively trying to get a meeting. So that's how I would articulate it from my standpoint.
Jadi Tillery
We're asking a lot here, aren't we? If you're thinking about it, what we're effectively saying is we need you to be better marketers.
Jade Tillery
Well, I think everybody needs to be better marketers now. I mean, I've invested my own personal branding on LinkedIn. So everyone, you know, I'm a marketer who pays for someone else to do my marketing. So we're all in the game of putting together our personal brands and thinking about marketing ourselves as professional individuals. And so is it a big ask? I don't know. I think it's just how the landscape is evolving and I think the people who are naturally drawn to sales are people who are focused on relationship building. So these are just other ways in which you can build relationships.
Jadi Tillery
I'm super curious. I run into a bias all the time. I've got a fellow fractional 20 year executive experience person. So I've got to ask this and I'll tell you the bias and you tell me if it's well founded. But I find myself in a spot where I'm having to educate executives on the value of meta as a business platform. And I quite often see folks that they get hyper focused on LinkedIn for obvious reasons. It's a business social media platform and I ask, I'm not trying to put you in a spot where you've got to make judgment calls on what platforms work or don't, but I'm just really super curious. Do you feel like as marketers and sellers, we quite often get too focused on LinkedIn. Do you feel like we should be in a place where we're exploring Meta, WhatsApp, other platforms potentially, or do you feel like LinkedIn is it.
Jade Tillery
No, no. I mean, I think it's entirely dependent on who your customer is and the audience that you're trying to reach, and they determine the channel that you're ultimately going to select. So, yes, okay, if you're a B2B marketer, for sure, LinkedIn is going to be your primary channel and potentially you're looking at or threads. Right. Threads is the alternative to X because people are shying away from and turning away from that platform. Meta is a behemoth. We cannot ignore the landscape that is meta. So you just knowing what are the particular channels that are going to be the right fit for your client means that, or your customer means that. Yeah, you may be in the meta universe or you may be over here in LinkedIn, or you may be on X or thinking about shifting to threads, it might be YouTube. So all of these are just part of your mix that you can choose from. But fundamentally it comes down to who are you trying to reach and where do they spend your time? And that's where you, as a sales or marketing individual, has to spend your time.
Jadi Tillery
I think it's a great summary. I quite often feel like you're able to deploy meta to create that initial impression, if you will, that awareness, that moment where they're passive. I'm in front of my device, I get this ad. There's a simple value prop, by the way. Your value prop should be really dead simple. In Meta, I'm on Insta, I get this cute little app, like, what a great place to start in terms of just creating that audience engagement. And you and I could have a whole episode just on where to deploy which social media platform. But the reason I bring this up is because this also is where the sellers need to be. So Quite often with LinkedIn, it's like it's so easy to convince sellers, by the way, on LinkedIn, they're like, yes, I should come up with my own brand, all this stuff. But I have to tell you, I'm finding it also to be true on Facebook and Instagram, where quite often the most successful. So let me give you a hint, folks. It's not just about selling, it's not just about closing. Quite often it's about your ability to efficiently create your own pipeline. Because marketing has had their budget slashed, they're under tremendous pressure, as are you. But if you can be your own best brand ambassador, I see this working frankly on Facebook and Instagram and other areas where people are like, you know what, I'm actually going to be the best possible B2B salesperson on all these platforms. So get ready, folks. My point, it's not just LinkedIn, it's showing up everywhere. I feel like there's a really good case to be made at the end of the day about just focusing on LinkedIn as a start. But it feels like to go back to our original topic, if we could get our sellers on LinkedIn thinking about their brand profile and really at the other day adapting to a new model, it says it's about hand raisers engaging with your brand as opposed to you interrupting their day, potentially blowing up the reputation of the brand that's put so much effort into performance marketing. Is that a pretty good recap of how you're seeing the world?
Jade Tillery
Yeah, absolutely. The one thing that I would add into the mix because we've talked mostly about meta, which is where my two global, you know, I've got two global firsts under my belt and they live in the meta universe. So I'm always a little bit biased towards that platform. But don't rule out TikTok. So I had a really interesting conversation about the rise of TikTok for business. So it could be once you do the due diligence, you do a little bit of research, there's a huge opportunity for personal brands for businesses on that platform. I know we think of it as something else, but that means there is an opportunity to get those eyeballs who are spending their time there, those customers, those potential clients, capturing where they're spending their time by giving that value added content or information that's going to make them thank you first when they need your product or your service somewhere down the line.
Jadi Tillery
Great advice. And exactly, sort of to the whole point, which is really, if we're thinking about alignment between sales and marketing and we're thinking about those boundaries, they don't exist. And it's true when it comes to the different platforms, the fact that TikTok is becoming a useful business platform is really astounding. But again, it speaks to where people are and where people are typically in the buyer's journey. And if you can create that impression with a TikTok ad sort of early on and then you're closing with LinkedIn later on with heavy alignment with sales, it's actually much cheaper buyer journey as opposed to just trying to create an impression with LinkedIn which can be incredibly expensive if you've deployed it poorly.
Jade Tillery
Yeah, absolutely. There's a platform called Ads act which has looked at some black holes on, on, on LinkedIn that suck up a lot of ad spend. So, yeah, definitely it's looking at your full marketing mix and the intelligence there. But I think for those coming back to those sales individuals, we've talked about a lot of things, a lot of different platforms that might be out of their area of comfort. So I would say my ideal scenario would be for you to proactively go and have an open dialogue with your marketing team where you're feeling this might be something that you want to pursue more, whether that's at the managerial level or at the individual level. Like go and seek. Empower yourself with information and knowledge from the individuals within your own organization. Absolutely. Do your research in your own personal time. But don't forget that you actually have marketing experts in house who understand these platforms very well. So don't negate that resource as well. So look for opportunities to break down the barriers or the silos to support you in your own development and achieving your goals, your revenue goals and targets by getting a lot closer aligned with marketing.
Jadi Tillery
I think that's such a great closing point and I'm going to make one more, which is. And let me know if you agree. But I feel like at the end of the day, it's the buyer who's driving how we act as sellers and marketers. And frankly, they're demanding a lower touch, sort of easier process. So it's not coming from marketing sellers, it's not coming from us, it's coming from your buyers. They're demanding this alignment. At the end of the day, they're sort of demanding that you have a reputation, that you're online and that you can help them along the buyer's journey. So, Jade, I've really enjoyed our conversations today and yesterday. Thanks for joining us here on the podcast.
Jade Tillery
Thank you so much. It's been a series of great conversations.
Jadi Tillery
All right, that wraps up this episode of the MarkTech podcast. Thanks to Jadeh Tillery for joining us today. If you'd like to get in touch with her, you can find a link to her LinkedIn profile in her show notes or you can visit our company's website@ikwe.co.uk okay, that wraps up this episode.
Doug Bell
Of the Martek podcast. Thanks to our guest host, Doug Bell, the CMO of Chief Outsiders. If you'd like to get in touch with Doug, you could find a link to his LinkedIn profile in our show Notes. Or you can contact him on Twitter, where His handle is MarketAdvocate. Or you could just visit his website, which is ChiefOutsiders.com A special thanks to the Current Podcast for sponsoring today's interview. If you're looking for candid conversations with marketing leaders from the world's biggest brands, then give the Current Podcast a listen. On the Current Podcast you'll find exclusive interviews with experts and trendsetters who are on the front lines of digital advertising, and they always leave the ad tech jargon at the door. So subscribe to the current@www.thecurrent.com or anywhere you get your podcasts today. Just one more link in our Show Notes I'd like to tell you about. If you didn't have a chance to take notes while you were listening to this podcast, head over to Marte, where we have summaries of all of our episodes and contact information for our guests. You can also subscribe to our weekly newsletter and you can even apply to be the next guest speaker on the Martech podcast. Of course, you can always reach out on social media. Our handle is martechpod. M A R T E C H P O D on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook. Or you can contact me directly on LinkedIn. My handle is Benjshap B E N J S H A P and if you haven't subscribed yet and you want a daily stream of marketing and technology knowledge in your podcast feedback, we're going to publish an episode every day this year, so hit the subscribe button in your podcast app and we'll be back in your feed tomorrow morning. All right, that's it for today, but until next time, my advice is to just focus on keeping your customers happy.
Benjamin Shapiro
Thanks for listening to the Martech podcast and I hear everything. Production Looking to launch or scale a podcast like this one for your brand? Then visit iheareverything.com.
MarTech Podcast™ Episode Summary: "Aligning Your Sales & Marketing Teams Through Social Media"
Release Date: November 21, 2024
Host: I Hear Everything | Guest Host: Doug Bell, CMO of Chief Outsiders
Guest: Jadi Tillery, Founder and Director at Equay
In this insightful episode of the MarTech Podcast™, host Doug Bell engages in a deep conversation with Jadi Tillery, the founder and director at Equay. The focus of their discussion centers on the critical alignment of sales and marketing teams through strategic use of social media. This episode delves into the evolving dynamics of buyer behavior, the transformation of traditional sales models, and the imperative for cohesive collaboration between sales and marketing departments to drive business growth.
Jadi Tillery begins by highlighting significant shifts in consumer behavior, emphasizing that modern buyers are increasingly conducting their research online before engaging with sellers. Referencing a recent Gartner report, she notes, “Currently, about 80% of the buying cycle is occurring without really a lot of control by the sellers” (03:55). This trend underscores the diminishing effectiveness of traditional outbound sales tactics such as cold calling and email prospecting.
Tillery articulates the necessity for sales and marketing teams to operate in unison. She explains, “If we're reaching out to the right person with the right message and a clear call to action, then it's just a matter of timing” (00:46). Without alignment, sales efforts can inadvertently undermine marketing initiatives, leading to inefficiencies and potential reputational risks. She shares her experience with sales teams acting independently on social channels, resulting in mixed messages that can damage the brand’s integrity.
The conversation transitions to the concept of social selling—a strategy that leverages social media platforms to build relationships and drive sales. Jadi outlines a three-pronged approach to social selling:
This framework emphasizes the importance of sellers establishing a strong online presence, continually expanding their professional networks, and maintaining active engagement to become the go-to resource when potential clients are ready to purchase.
Addressing the prevalent focus on LinkedIn, Jadi advises a more diversified approach to social media utilization. She states, “It’s entirely dependent on who your customer is and the audience that you're trying to reach” (13:28). While LinkedIn remains a pivotal platform for B2B interactions, Jadi encourages exploring other platforms like Meta (Facebook and Instagram) and TikTok to capture different segments of the audience. She remarks, “Don’t rule out TikTok. There is an opportunity to get those eyeballs who are spending their time there” (15:54).
Jadi emphasizes the growing necessity for sales professionals to cultivate their personal brands across various social platforms. “Everyone needs to be better marketers now,” she asserts (12:08). By investing in personal branding, salespeople can enhance their visibility and credibility, making it easier to attract and nurture leads. This personal branding should align with the overall marketing strategy to ensure consistent messaging and reinforce brand affinity.
The discussion moves to the role of technology in bridging the gap between sales and marketing. Jadi highlights the importance of utilizing marketing technologies for automation, rich media content creation, and effective communication. “There are so many incredible tools and platforms that can really help you with that process” (10:42). These tools enable both teams to streamline their efforts, track engagement, and maintain a cohesive strategy across different channels.
In wrapping up, Jadi Tillery reiterates that the impetus for aligning sales and marketing stems from evolving buyer expectations. “It's the buyer who's driving how we act as sellers and marketers,” she concludes (18:05). She encourages open dialogue between sales and marketing teams, continuous learning, and leveraging in-house expertise to adapt to the changing landscape. The alignment not only enhances efficiency and effectiveness but also ensures that both teams work towards common revenue goals with a unified approach.
Consumer Behavior Shift: A significant portion of the buying process now occurs online without direct seller intervention.
Sales and Marketing Alignment: Crucial for maintaining brand integrity and maximizing efficiency in lead generation and conversion.
Social Selling Framework:
Diversified Social Media Strategy: Beyond LinkedIn, platforms like Meta and TikTok offer valuable avenues for engaging with different audience segments.
Personal Branding for Sales: Essential for enhancing visibility and credibility, aligning personal and corporate brand messaging.
Leveraging Technology: Utilize marketing technologies to automate processes, create engaging content, and maintain strategic alignment across teams.
Jadi Tillery:
Doug Bell:
This episode underscores the imperative for sales and marketing teams to collaborate closely, leveraging social media as a powerful tool for alignment and growth. By adopting a strategic approach to social selling, diversifying platform usage, and investing in personal branding, organizations can effectively navigate the modern buyer's journey and drive sustained business success.
Timestamp References:
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