MarTech Podcast ™ // Episode: Customer Engagement Metrics or Brand Visibility KPIs?
Release Date: May 29, 2025
Host: Benjamin Shapiro
Guest: Matthew McGrory, Co-Founder and CEO of Arwin AI
Introduction
In this insightful episode of the MarTech Podcast™, host Benjamin Shapiro engages with Matthew McGrory, the co-founder and CEO of Arwin AI. The discussion centers around a pivotal question in the marketing landscape: Should brands prioritize customer engagement metrics or brand visibility KPIs? Matthew brings his expertise in AI-driven social media management to shed light on how businesses can navigate this decision to drive growth and success.
Customer Engagement vs. Brand Visibility
Matthew McGrory initiates the conversation by emphasizing the primary focus of social media:
"Social media is all about engagement. Brand visibility is part of the thing, but the main point is to engage with your clients." (02:00)
He contrasts this with traditional TV advertising, highlighting the transient nature of content:
"The typical lifespan of an article is about 24 to 36 hours," (00:30), enhancing the argument that authentic engagement outperforms temporary visibility.
Stage of the Brand: Startups vs. Established Enterprises
Benjamin Shapiro and Matthew delve into how a brand's stage influences its focus on metrics:
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Established Brands: For enterprises with a solid brand identity and widespread recognition, engagement metrics take precedence. These brands already possess the necessary awareness and credibility, allowing them to deepen relationships with their audience.
"If you're an enterprise brand, engagement is what you're thinking about the most because the brand already has an established identity." (02:30)
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Startups: Conversely, startups in their nascent stages need to prioritize brand visibility to build awareness and establish a presence in the market.
"For smaller brands, the general awareness and visibility matter more initially." (02:15)
Matthew underscores the importance of visibility for startups:
"As a startup, especially in the early years, affording brand visibility through traditional means is challenging." (03:00)
B2B vs. B2C Considerations
The conversation shifts to the nuances between B2B (Business-to-Business) and B2C (Business-to-Consumer) marketing strategies:
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B2B Brands: Typically engage in niche targeting with specific individuals or other businesses. Given the high costs associated with broad brand visibility, B2B companies often lean more heavily on customer engagement.
"We're very much a B2B brand, targeting very specific individuals and brands. Trying to pay for widespread brand visibility is expensive and often unfeasible for startups." (03:50)
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B2C Brands: May have more flexibility to invest in broad brand visibility campaigns, leveraging their larger budgets to compete with established players like Coca-Cola or IKEA.
Budget Constraints and Strategic Visibility
Matthew shares practical strategies employed by Arwin AI to maintain brand visibility without exorbitant costs:
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Affordable Promotional Items: Utilizing cost-effective methods such as branded T-shirts and keyrings to increase visibility at events.
"We've gone for keyrings with our brand on and some of our customers' brands on. We're also using sun hats and T-shirts to walk around at events like Cannes Lions in the south of France." (03:45)
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Targeted Engagement: Focusing on platforms and events where their specific audience is present ensures that visibility efforts are both cost-effective and impactful.
"A bit of brand visibility is absolutely important, but it's cheap and cheerful brand visibility." (04:10)
AI in Social Media Management
Matthew elaborates on how Arwin AI leverages artificial intelligence to enhance social media strategies:
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Amplifying Positive Interactions: AI tools help in identifying and amplifying positive customer interactions, thereby fostering stronger engagement.
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Data-Driven Decisions: Utilizing AI to analyze engagement metrics and visibility KPIs allows for more informed and strategic marketing decisions.
Key Insights and Takeaways
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Context Matters: The decision to prioritize customer engagement or brand visibility depends significantly on the brand's stage, market position, and whether it operates in a B2B or B2C space.
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Balanced Approach: While engagement is crucial for established brands, startups must focus on building visibility first before deepening customer interactions.
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Cost-Effective Strategies: Brands, especially startups, can employ affordable methods to enhance visibility without stretching their budgets.
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Leverage Technology: Incorporating AI into social media management can optimize both engagement and visibility efforts, leading to more effective marketing campaigns.
Conclusion
In wrapping up the episode, Benjamin Shapiro reiterates the importance of adapting marketing strategies to align with a brand's current position and objectives:
"Until next time, my advice is to just focus on keeping your customers happy." (04:55)
This episode offers a comprehensive examination of the delicate balance between customer engagement and brand visibility, providing valuable insights for marketers aiming to harness technology for business growth.
Notable Quotes
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Matthew McGrory:
"Social media is all about engagement. Brand visibility is part of the thing, but the main point is to engage with your clients and that's 100% what you should be looking at." (02:00)
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Benjamin Shapiro:
"You're going for a paid vacation and to have some aperol spritz in a beautiful place." (04:20)
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Matthew McGrory:
"A bit of brand visibility is absolutely important, but it's cheap and cheerful brand visibility." (04:10)
Further Information
To connect with Matthew McGrory or learn more about Arwin AI, visit the show notes on the MarTech Podcast website or explore Arwin AI’s official website. Subscribe to the MarTech Podcast for a continuous stream of marketing and technology insights.