Customer engagement metrics or brand visibility KPIs?

Summary

MarTech Podcast ™ // Episode: Customer Engagement Metrics or Brand Visibility KPIs?

Release Date: May 29, 2025
Host: Benjamin Shapiro
Guest: Matthew McGrory, Co-Founder and CEO of Arwin AI

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Introduction

In this insightful episode of the MarTech Podcast™, host Benjamin Shapiro engages with Matthew McGrory, the co-founder and CEO of Arwin AI. The discussion centers around a pivotal question in the marketing landscape: Should brands prioritize customer engagement metrics or brand visibility KPIs? Matthew brings his expertise in AI-driven social media management to shed light on how businesses can navigate this decision to drive growth and success.

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Customer Engagement vs. Brand Visibility

Matthew McGrory initiates the conversation by emphasizing the primary focus of social media:

"Social media is all about engagement. Brand visibility is part of the thing, but the main point is to engage with your clients." (02:00)

He contrasts this with traditional TV advertising, highlighting the transient nature of content:

"The typical lifespan of an article is about 24 to 36 hours," (00:30), enhancing the argument that authentic engagement outperforms temporary visibility.

Stage of the Brand: Startups vs. Established Enterprises

Benjamin Shapiro and Matthew delve into how a brand's stage influences its focus on metrics:

• Established Brands: For enterprises with a solid brand identity and widespread recognition, engagement metrics take precedence. These brands already possess the necessary awareness and credibility, allowing them to deepen relationships with their audience.

  "If you're an enterprise brand, engagement is what you're thinking about the most because the brand already has an established identity." (02:30)

• Startups: Conversely, startups in their nascent stages need to prioritize brand visibility to build awareness and establish a presence in the market.

  "For smaller brands, the general awareness and visibility matter more initially." (02:15)

Matthew underscores the importance of visibility for startups:

"As a startup, especially in the early years, affording brand visibility through traditional means is challenging." (03:00)

B2B vs. B2C Considerations

The conversation shifts to the nuances between B2B (Business-to-Business) and B2C (Business-to-Consumer) marketing strategies:

• B2B Brands: Typically engage in niche targeting with specific individuals or other businesses. Given the high costs associated with broad brand visibility, B2B companies often lean more heavily on customer engagement.

  "We're very much a B2B brand, targeting very specific individuals and brands. Trying to pay for widespread brand visibility is expensive and often unfeasible for startups." (03:50)

• B2C Brands: May have more flexibility to invest in broad brand visibility campaigns, leveraging their larger budgets to compete with established players like Coca-Cola or IKEA.

Budget Constraints and Strategic Visibility

Matthew shares practical strategies employed by Arwin AI to maintain brand visibility without exorbitant costs:

• Affordable Promotional Items: Utilizing cost-effective methods such as branded T-shirts and keyrings to increase visibility at events.

  "We've gone for keyrings with our brand on and some of our customers' brands on. We're also using sun hats and T-shirts to walk around at events like Cannes Lions in the south of France." (03:45)

• Targeted Engagement: Focusing on platforms and events where their specific audience is present ensures that visibility efforts are both cost-effective and impactful.

  "A bit of brand visibility is absolutely important, but it's cheap and cheerful brand visibility." (04:10)

AI in Social Media Management

Matthew elaborates on how Arwin AI leverages artificial intelligence to enhance social media strategies:

• Amplifying Positive Interactions: AI tools help in identifying and amplifying positive customer interactions, thereby fostering stronger engagement.

• Data-Driven Decisions: Utilizing AI to analyze engagement metrics and visibility KPIs allows for more informed and strategic marketing decisions.

Key Insights and Takeaways

1. Context Matters: The decision to prioritize customer engagement or brand visibility depends significantly on the brand's stage, market position, and whether it operates in a B2B or B2C space.

2. Balanced Approach: While engagement is crucial for established brands, startups must focus on building visibility first before deepening customer interactions.

3. Cost-Effective Strategies: Brands, especially startups, can employ affordable methods to enhance visibility without stretching their budgets.

4. Leverage Technology: Incorporating AI into social media management can optimize both engagement and visibility efforts, leading to more effective marketing campaigns.

Conclusion

In wrapping up the episode, Benjamin Shapiro reiterates the importance of adapting marketing strategies to align with a brand's current position and objectives:

"Until next time, my advice is to just focus on keeping your customers happy." (04:55)

This episode offers a comprehensive examination of the delicate balance between customer engagement and brand visibility, providing valuable insights for marketers aiming to harness technology for business growth.

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Notable Quotes

• Matthew McGrory:

  "Social media is all about engagement. Brand visibility is part of the thing, but the main point is to engage with your clients and that's 100% what you should be looking at." (02:00)

• Benjamin Shapiro:

  "You're going for a paid vacation and to have some aperol spritz in a beautiful place." (04:20)

• Matthew McGrory:

  "A bit of brand visibility is absolutely important, but it's cheap and cheerful brand visibility." (04:10)

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Further Information

To connect with Matthew McGrory or learn more about Arwin AI, visit the show notes on the MarTech Podcast website or explore Arwin AI’s official website. Subscribe to the MarTech Podcast for a continuous stream of marketing and technology insights.

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Timestamps

• [00:00 – 00:53] Advertisements and Introductory Remarks
• [01:29 – 05:28] Core Discussion on Customer Engagement vs. Brand Visibility
• Notable segments include discussions on brand stage impact (02:00), B2B vs. B2C strategies (03:50), and cost-effective visibility methods (04:10).

Transcript

[Benjamin Shapiro]

The Martech Podcast is a proud member of the I Hear Everything Podcast Network. Looking to launch or scale your podcast, I Hear Everything delivers podcast production, growth and monetization solutions that transform your words into profit. Ready to give your brand a voice? Then visit iheareverything.com.

From advertising to software as a service to data across all.

[Matthew McGrory]

Of our programs and clients, we've seen a 55 to 65% open rate.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

Getting brands authentically integrated into content performs better than TV advertising. Typical lifespan of an article is about 24 to 36 hours.

[Matthew McGrory]

If we're reaching out to the right person with the right message and a clear call to action, then it's just a matter of timing.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

Welcome to the Martech Podcast, a member of the I Hear Everything Podcast network. In this podcast you'll hear the stories of world class marketers that you technology to drive business results and achieve career success. Here's the host of the Martech Podcast, Benjamin Shapiro.

I'm Benjamin Shapiro and joining me today is Matthew McGrory, the co founder and CEO of Arwin AI, which helps marketing teams amplify positive social interactions. And today Matthew is going to explain how AI is revolutionizing social media management. All right, moving on to our next question. If forced to choose customer engagement metrics or brand visibility, KPIs definitely social media.

[Unknown Speaker]

Is all about engagement in my opinion. I think brand visibility is part of the thing. But again, going back to my TV analogy of the, you know, let's think the 50s, 60s Mad Men type advertising, that is kind of not the point of social media. Point of social media is to engage with your clients and that's 100% what you should be looking at.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

Yeah, I think that this is different depending on the stage of your brand. You work with enterprise brands, so it makes sense that the engagement is what you're thinking about the most because the brand already has an established identity, it's known, it has awareness. I think if you're a startup startup and you're starting to think about, well, how do I get my brand out there? You actually need the awareness. You need the visibility first. You need to be seen so people understand who you are, they get a sense of personality, then hopefully decide to engage. You obviously always want to drive down the funnel to engagement. But I do think that there's a reason to say for smaller brands that the general awareness matters more, the visibility. And then as you start to build that visibility, hopefully you get some credibility, some trust and then you start worrying about engagement. So I think this is a little bit of depends where you are not to give a consulting answer. I hate the word depends, but I.

[Unknown Speaker]

Think it's also B2B versus B2C. Like building my business. We're very much a B2B brand and we do very niche targeting to very specific individuals and brands. The problem with trying to pay for that is it's very expensive to pay for the brand visibility that you might want or expect. And you see from like a Coca Cola or an Ikea or something like that, you can't contest on their playing field. So certainly for a startup where I was four years ago, there's no way I could afford any brand visibility at all on any social media. So you're kind of left with customer engagement. Now, once you get to maybe your 5 million ARR or 10 million ARR as a startup, you've got budgets where you can lean into that brand visibility. Clearly you can pay for some T shirts. We're off to Cannes Lions in the south of France and we've gone for keyrings with our brand on and with some of our customers brands on. We're doing a lucky day and I think we're going for sun hats. That's our two things. So we walk around with our sun hats and our T shirts on and we know that our audience is there. So a bit of brand visibility is absolutely important. But it's cheap and cheerful brand visibility. I think that's the big thing you've got to be careful of Matthew.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

Get real. You're going for a paid vacation and to have some aperol spritz in a beautiful place. All right, and that wraps up this episode of the Martech podcast. Thanks to Matthew McGrory, the co founder and CEO of Arwin, for joining us. If you'd like to contact Matthew, you can find a link to his LinkedIn profile in our show notes on martechpod.com or you can visit his company's website. Again, it's Arwen AI A R W E N A I if you haven't subscribed yet and you want a daily stream of marketing and technology knowledge in your podcast feed, hit the subscribe button in your podcast app or on YouTube and we'll be back in your feed every week. All right, that's it for today, but until next time, my advice is to just focus on keeping your customers happy. Foreign.

Thanks for listening to the Martech podcast and I hear everything. Production Looking to launch or scale a podcast like this one for your brand? Then visit iheareverything.com.