First impressions when Apple introduced the App Tracking Transparency feature in iOS 14.5

Summary

MarTech Podcast Episode Summary

Episode: First Impressions When Apple Introduced the App Tracking Transparency Feature in iOS 14.5
Host: Benjamin Shapiro
Guest: Alex Schultz, CMO & VP of Analytics at Meta
Date: October 1, 2025

---

Episode Overview

In this engaging episode, Benjamin Shapiro talks with Alex Schultz, CMO and VP of Analytics at Meta, about the pivotal moment when Apple introduced its App Tracking Transparency (ATT) feature in iOS 14.5. Schultz shares his unfiltered first reaction, the real-world challenges Meta faced, and the long-term implications this change had on digital advertising, analytics, and privacy. The conversation offers a behind-the-scenes look at how a major platform adapted to seismic shifts in data privacy, and how such adversity ultimately drove innovation and made the ecosystem stronger and more privacy-conscious.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Immediate Reaction to Apple's ATT Announcement

• Context: Apple’s ATT required apps to request users’ consent before tracking their behavior across other apps and websites.

• Alex Schultz's Candid Response:

  • Schultz immediately recognized Apple’s move as both shrewd and self-serving, with complex motives underneath the privacy-centric messaging.
  • Quote (Alex Schultz, 02:06):

    "Those smart, cynical bastards. That was what went through my—I mean, they are so good, aren’t they? … They operate in China and yet they have a privacy brand. Which in and of itself is just hilarious because I was part of the team that tried to get us into China."

• Perceived Double Standards:

  • Schultz points out the inconsistency in Apple’s approach to privacy, distinguishing between their own data use ("personalization") and labeling others' as "tracking."
  • Quote (Alex Schultz, 02:28):

    "They go and bury in their menu that when it’s them it’s personalization, but when it’s anyone else it’s tracking. … It was a deliberate play. So I was like, hats off to you, I’m annoyed at you, but you smart, cynical bastards."

2. Operational Fallout and Analysis Within Meta

• Benjamin’s Immediate Thought:

  • Shapiro empathized with Schultz, noting the magnitude of the challenge:
    Quote (Benjamin Shapiro, 02:49):

    "Honestly, one of the first things that went through my head was, oh, man, Alex is going to have a rough week."

• Behind-the-Scenes Analytics:

  • Schultz credits his team—specifically David Sasaki—for accurately analyzing the impact and presenting their findings to Meta’s board.
  • Quote (Alex Schultz, 02:59):

    "The person who did the analysis for this was on my team. His name is David Sasaki. He had a very rough weekend. ... We presented it to the board. It was really good work. He’s now the head of analytics for OpenAI."

3. The Push Toward Synthetic Data & Platform Innovation

• Adapting to Less Data:

  • The loss of direct tracking data pushed Meta to develop new techniques, relying more on synthetic and predictive models.
  • Quote (Alex Schultz, 03:28):

    "It forced us to understand synthetic data more, it forced us to model things out more and it honestly made us smarter at doing things with less data, which in and of itself made us, I think, more privacy protecting in the work that we did … we have the capacity to do things with less data, which makes it more private."

• Unexpected Positive Outcomes:

  • These challenges led to greater innovation, particularly in privacy-protecting methodologies.
  • Quote (Alex Schultz, 04:05):

    "We came out stronger because of it."

4. Broader Industry Impact

• Market Shakeout:
  • Schultz observes that while large companies like Meta could adapt, smaller or less sophisticated players struggled, and less reputable third-party data brokers were squeezed out.
  • Quote (Alex Schultz, 04:05):

    "A bunch of weaker companies actually got hurt more materially than the bigger platforms because Apple made it harder to do online tracking and conversion. ... I definitely think it killed some of the bad third party data people. So there’s swings and roundabouts, but yeah, it forced us to be leaner, fitter, better, and we came out of it, I think, stronger, but it was really painful."

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Alex Schultz, 02:06:

  "Those smart, cynical bastards. That was what went through my—I mean, they are so good, aren’t they?"

• Alex Schultz, 02:28:

  "They go and bury in their menu that when it’s them it’s personalization, but when it’s anyone else it’s tracking. ... So I was like, hats off to you, I’m annoyed at you, but you smart, cynical bastards."

• Benjamin Shapiro, 02:49:

  "Oh, man, Alex is going to have a rough week."

• Alex Schultz, 02:59:

  "He predicted it, the analysis, he was right. ... He’s now the head of analytics for OpenAI."

• Alex Schultz, 03:28:

  "It forced us to model things out more and it honestly made us smarter at doing things with less data."

• Alex Schultz, 04:05:

  "We came out stronger because of it."

• Alex Schultz, 04:05:

  "A bunch of weaker companies actually got hurt more materially than the bigger platforms ... it killed some of the bad third party data people."

---

Key Timestamps

• 01:15 – Introduction of guest Alex Schultz
• 02:06 – Schultz’s first reaction to Apple's ATT
• 02:28 – Deeper analysis of Apple’s motives and user interface tactics
• 02:49 – Shapiro remarks on the impact for Meta’s team
• 02:59 – Credit given to analytics lead for crisis management
• 03:28 – Positive adaptations: shift to synthetic data and increased privacy
• 04:05 – Broader industry fallout and Meta’s strengthened position

---

Recap

This episode offers a rare, candid look behind the scenes of a major technology inflection point. Alex Schultz’s honest reflections illuminate how a company as large as Meta processed and ultimately thrived under new privacy constraints, while also highlighting the double-edged sword such changes wield for the broader industry. Through quick adaptation, investment in analytics, and a move towards synthetic and predictive data, Meta exemplified how adversity can be a catalyst for smarter, more privacy-conscious growth.

Useful for marketers, executives, and anyone interested in digital privacy, platform strategy, and the real-world consequences of big tech policy shifts.

Transcript

[Podcast Announcer]

The Martech Podcast is a proud member of the I Hear Everything Podcast Network. Looking to launch or scale your podcast, I Hear Everything delivers podcast production, growth and monetization solutions that transform your words into profit. Ready to give your brand a voice? Then visit iheareverything.com.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

From advertising to software as a service to data across all of our programs and clients, we've seen a 55 to 65% open rate. Getting brands authentically integrated into content performs better than TV advertising. Typical lifespan of an article is about 24 to 36 hours. If we're reaching out to the right person with the right message and a clear call to action, then it's just a matter of timing.

[Podcast Announcer]

Welcome to the Martech Podcast, a member of the I Hear Everything Podcast Network. In this podcast, you'll hear the stories of world class marketers that you technology to drive business results and achieve career success. Here's the host of the Martech Podcast, Benjamin Shapiro.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

I'm Benjamin Shapiro and joining me today is Alex Schultz, who is the CMO and VP of analytics at Meta. Alex oversees global marketing, analytics and internationalization for the company's 3.4 billion daily users and was named one of Forbes most famous influential CMOs in the world. And today he's going to talk to us about his new book, the Art and Science of Digital Advertising, which is a deep dive into how creativity and analytics work together to drive growth in an AI first world. All right, I want to move on to our next question, which honestly, I can't believe the PR team said, yes, I can ask this, but I'm excited to hear your answer. All right, I want you to close your eyes and get ready and I want you to think back. It's been a couple years now. What was the first thing that you thought went through your head when Apple introduced the app transparency tracking feature in iOS 14.5?

[Alex Schultz]

Those smart, cynical bastards. That was what went through my. I mean, they are so good, aren't they? There's the one side where it's like you can be annoyed at them, but there's the other side where it's the game. They operate in China and yet they have a privacy brand. Which in and of itself is just hilarious because I was part of the team that tried to get us into China.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

It was good track.

[Alex Schultz]

We can't operate a messaging system in China.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

Yeah.

[Alex Schultz]

So that's interesting. And then on top of that they go and bury in their menu that when it's them it's personalization, but when it's anyone else it's tracking. I mean, it's so smart. And obviously they wanted to grow their services business. It's very high margin. It was a deliberate play. So I was like, hats off to you, I'm annoyed at you, but you smart, cynical bastards.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

Yeah, Honestly, one of the first things that went through my head was, oh, man, Alex is going to have a rough week. There's a lot of unanswered questions when the flow of data comes in.

[Alex Schultz]

Well, you know, the person who did the analysis for this was on my team. His name is David Sasaki. He had a very rough weekend. I had a less rough weekend when this come out. He predicted it, the analysis, he was right. It was bang on. We presented it to the board. It was really good work. He's now the head of analytics for OpenAI.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

There you go. And my understanding is it was a forcing function, specifically at Meta, to rely more on the concept of synthetic data. And the ad platform has still increased. What was the positive thing that came out of it?

[Alex Schultz]

The interesting thing we said at the time? I did an ad with Grace Jones, believe it or not, that talked about the impact of this on SMBs, which sometimes my life is very weird. We have the capabilities, the technology, the staff, the data to recover from a change like this. So what it did was it forced us to understand synthetic data more, it forced us to model things out more and it honestly made us smarter at doing things with less data, which in and of itself made us, I think, more privacy protecting in the work that we did because we're using more predicted data, we're using less data to do things, and so we have the capacity to do things with less data, which makes it more private.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

Sometimes you have to go through the fire.

[Alex Schultz]

Yeah. And we came out stronger because of it. And I think the thing that's sad is a bunch of weaker companies actually got hurt more materially than the bigger platforms because Apple made it harder to do online tracking and conversion. Now, the good thing is I definitely think it killed some of the bad third party data people. So there's swings and roundabouts, but yeah, it forced us to be leaner, fitter, better, and we came out of it, I think, stronger, but it was really painful.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

All right, that wraps up this episode of the Martech podcast. Thanks for listening to my conversation with Alex Schultz, the CMO and VP of Analytics at Meta. If you'd like to contact Alex, you can find a link to his LinkedIn profile in our show notes or on martechpod.com and of course you could visit his company's website, which is meta.com and his book launches in early October, so go ahead and get a copy. We'll have a link in our show Notes for that as well. If you haven't subscribed yet and you want a daily stream of marketing and technology knowledge in your podcast feed, hit the subscribe button in your podcast app or on YouTube and we'll be back in your feed next week. All right, that's it for today, but until next time, my advice is to just focus on keeping your customers happy. Foreign.

[Podcast Announcer]

Thanks for listening to the Martech podcast, and I hear everything. Production Looking to launch or scale a podcast like this one for your brand? Then visit iheareverything.com.