How Fractional Leadership Roles Are Transforming The Marketing Landscape

Summary

MarTech Podcast™ Episode Summary: "How Fractional Leadership Roles Are Transforming The Marketing Landscape"

Release Date: November 20, 2024
Host: I Hear Everything (Guest Host: Doug Bell, CMO of Chief Outsiders)
Guest: Judy Tillery, Founder and Director at Equay

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Introduction

In this insightful episode of the MarTech Podcast™, guest host Doug Bell engages in a comprehensive dialogue with Judy Tillery, a seasoned fractional Chief Marketing Officer (CMO) at Equay. The conversation delves into the evolving role of fractional leadership in marketing, exploring how these part-time executives are reshaping the industry by offering flexibility, expertise, and strategic support to businesses at various growth stages.

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Understanding Fractional Leadership

Defining the Fractional Role

Judy Tillery begins by elucidating the nature of fractional executives, emphasizing their strategic involvement without the permanence of full-time roles.

"[Fractionals] allows for change to be made without necessarily rocking the boat or causing disruption in terms of operations, change management, the sort of senior level in the team."
— Judy Tillery [04:10]

Operational Dynamics

She explains that fractionals typically engage on a part-time basis—be it days a week or specific hours—and focus on critical areas needing improvement or strategic realignment.

"A fractional is someone who works for you for a particular number of hours or days a week and they're very focused on sort of changing one thing."
— Judy Tillery [05:16]

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Benefits of Fractional Executives in Marketing

Strategic Support Without Full-Time Commitment

Fractional leaders bring a wealth of experience, providing high-level strategic guidance without the financial and operational commitments of a full-time executive.

"Fractionals are... someone who comes with that outside perspective, but a wealth of knowledge and experience can only be a value add to your senior leadership team."
— Judy Tillery [09:13]

Enhanced Efficiency and Rapid Implementation

Doug Bell highlights how fractionals enhance efficiency by leveraging their extensive backgrounds to implement changes swiftly.

"It's allowing organizations to move more quickly... and by the way, we've got incredibly recent experience that's live, that's happening now."
— Jadi Tillery [11:58]

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Comparing Fractional Leadership with Traditional Models

Versus Consulting and Agencies

Judy contrasts fractional executives with traditional consulting and agency models, noting that fractionals offer ongoing strategic partnership rather than project-based or service-specific engagements.

"Fractionals will pull in specialist agencies to address one lever of or one marketing channel in particular... it's just not the way that it works anymore."
— Judy Tillery [12:30]

Long-Term Value Over Recurring Revenue

Unlike agencies reliant on ongoing contracts, fractional leaders focus on delivering measurable outcomes to sustain their engagements.

"We are only as good as our last success... we're recommending the right partner product service that is going to make an immediate impact."
— Judy Tillery [14:06]

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When to Use or Not Use Fractional Executives

Ideal Scenarios for Fractionals

Fractional leaders are most effective when a company faces specific challenges, such as unmet growth targets or transitioning through significant changes, where their expertise can drive targeted improvements.

"Fractionals can for sure be part of the diagnostic, but you need to give us a little bit of a head start in terms of the direction of travel."
— Judy Tillery [17:03]

Situations to Avoid

They may not be suitable for very early-stage startups still defining their product-market fit or undergoing foundational team formation, where mentorship and advisory support are more beneficial.

"Fractional isn't really right for you at that stage yet... you want to be looking at mentors or advisors."
— Judy Tillery [24:13]

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Future Impact on the Marketing Landscape

Increased Adoption and Efficiency

Both Judy and Doug foresee a growing trend in the adoption of fractional leadership, particularly in tech and SaaS sectors, driven by the need for agility and up-to-date expertise.

"I think a fractional is the future... it's just how strong your fractional is."
— Judy Tillery [19:30]

Transformation of Executive Teams

This model facilitates more dynamic and responsive marketing teams, capable of quickly adjusting strategies to meet evolving market demands without the lag of traditional hiring processes.

"Marketing organizations evolving and changing more quickly because of fractionals."
— Jadi Tillery [11:58]

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Selecting the Right Fractional Leader

Ensuring Experience and Strategic Acumen

Judy emphasizes the importance of vetting fractionals to ensure they possess substantial executive experience and the ability to integrate seamlessly with existing leadership teams.

"Just do your own due diligence... they need to have that breadth and depth of experience behind them."
— Judy Tillery [24:41]

Avoiding Common Pitfalls

Be cautious of individuals labeling themselves as fractionals without the necessary senior-level experience, as the role demands both operational and strategic prowess.

"You want someone who really is happy to go shoulder to shoulder and have real conversations with your senior leadership team and your board."
— Judy Tillery [25:31]

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Conclusion and Final Thoughts

As the discussion wraps up, Judy firmly advocates for the fractional model as an essential evolution in executive leadership within marketing. She encourages businesses to explore this flexible, expertise-driven approach while diligently selecting qualified professionals to maximize impact.

"Fractionals are the future... but just know that we're not all created equal."
— Judy Tillery [24:08]

Doug Bell concludes by highlighting the significant advantages fractionals offer in terms of cost-efficiency and reduced ramp time, positioning them as a viable alternative to traditional full-time executives.

"Fractionals have figured out how to compress [ramp time] down into sometimes days, but often weeks."
— Jadi Tillery [20:59]

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Looking Ahead

Stay tuned for part two of this enlightening conversation, where Doug and Judy will explore strategies for aligning sales and marketing teams through social media. Subscribe to the MarTech Podcast™ to ensure you don't miss this continuation of the discussion on transformative marketing strategies.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• "Fractionals are... someone who comes with that outside perspective, but a wealth of knowledge and experience can only be a value add to your senior leadership team." — Judy Tillery [09:13]

• "It's allowing organizations to move more quickly... and by the way, we've got incredibly recent experience that's live, that's happening now." — Jadi Tillery [11:58]

• "Fractionals have figured out how to compress [ramp time] down into sometimes days, but often weeks." — Jadi Tillery [20:59]

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This episode provides a thorough examination of fractional leadership roles, offering valuable insights for marketers, executives, and business leaders considering this dynamic approach to scaling and optimizing their marketing efforts.

Transcript

[Benjamin Shapiro]

The Martech Podcast is a proud member of the iHear Everything Podcast Network. Looking to launch or scale your podcast, iHear everything delivers podcast production, growth and monetization solutions that transform your words into profit. Ready to give your brand a voice? Then visit iheareverything.com.

[Doug Bell]

From advertising to software.

[Jadi Tillery]

As a service to data across all of our programs and clients, we've seen a 55 to 65% open rate. Getting brands authentically integrated into content performs better than TV advertising.

[Doug Bell]

Typical lifespan of an article is about 24 to 36 hours.

[Jadi Tillery]

If we're reaching out to the right person with the right message and a clear call to action, then it's just a matter of timing.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

Welcome to the Martech Podcast, a member of the I Hear Everything Podcast Network. In this podcast, you'll hear the stories of world class marketers that use technology to drive business results and achieve career success. Here's the host of the Martech Podcast, Benjamin Shapiro.

[Doug Bell]

Welcome to the Martech Podcast I'm Benjamin Shapiro, the Executive Producer of the Martech Podcast and today we've got a special episode for you which is going to be guest hosted by Doug Bell, who's the CMO of Chief Outsiders. Doug is a veteran CMO with a background in helping growth stage B2B SaaS companies reach their true potential and I'm thrilled to invite him and some of his friends to take the microphone and share their knowledge with you, our loyal Martech Podcast listeners. Okay, here's a special episode of the Martech Podcast guest hosted by Doug Bell, the CMO of Chief Outsiders.

[Jadi Tillery]

Hello marketers, My name is Doug Bell from Chief Outsiders. Joining me today is Jadi Tillery, who is the founder and director at Equay, which is committed to blending strategic vision with cutting edge technology to drive digital transformation for businesses and marketing teams. They specialize in empowering growth and providing strategic advisory services for private equity, venture capital and companies seeking Series A and Series B investments. And today we're going to dig in and talk about how fractional leadership roles are transforming the marketing landscape.

[Doug Bell]

But before we get to today's interview, I want to tell you about what I'm listening to. Ever wanted to sit down to a candid conversation with marketing leaders from the world's biggest brands? The current podcast is your chance. On the current podcast you'll find exclusive interviews with the experts and trendsetters who are on the front lines of digital advertising. And they always leave the ad tech jargon at the door. So subscribe to the [e-mail] or anywhere you get your podcasts today.

[Jadi Tillery]

Okay, here's my conversation with Judy Tillery. Judy, welcome to the podcast.

[Judy Tillery]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Jadi Tillery]

So we're both fractionals. Full disclosure. A little insider baseball or insider hockey for those of you from British Columbia. So it's not unusual these days to see fractionals sitting side by side with in house executives. Ten years is not so much. So why the change?

[Judy Tillery]

I think for myself, you sort of highlighted a little bit in the intro. I do work specifically in the private equity and the venture capital space with the companies that they have invested in. So portfolio companies or companies that are looking to fundraise, typically series A plus. So companies at a level of maturity having a fractional come in to support the senior leadership team allows for change to be made without necessarily rocking the boat or causing disruption in terms of operations, change management, the sort of senior level in the team. And so to have a fractional alongside your senior team, it really does allow you to have someone supporting from a very strategic, strategic area. I laugh because really coming from that PE background, I'm typically brought in when things aren't going right, like if I'm very honest. So it's like 12 to 18 months post investment, companies have not hit their revenue targets. They're asking me or growth targets. They're asking me to come in and analyze what is going on in sales, marketing, potentially customer support. Because of my digital background, I'm often asked to look at the tech stack as well, particularly the marketing and sales tech stack. So me coming in and sitting alongside those leaders allows me to be sort of a support, a bit of a detective on behalf of sort of the PE and the VCs, but really from the senior leadership team. It is someone that can perhaps voice their concerns or their challenges or their obstacles. And I'm there to look to provide solutions and opportunities for change.

[Jadi Tillery]

I'll tell you what, I could take what you just said and go, well, that sounds like a growth consultant if we're not careful. So what I wouldn't mind doing. And again, we're both fractional, so I want to make sure folks understand what it really means to be a fractional. So let's take that concept, if you will, and let's make that meaningful. Let's go back to this idea of you coming in, the numbers aren't working, the growth isn't where it needs to be. Whatever the unit economics are, you're brought in to effect change. How does that sort of work as a fractional? Does that mean you only work one day a week. Does that mean you only focus on a particular part of the business? Sort of unpack what that engagement looks like?

[Judy Tillery]

Well, I think it, you know, I've had a conversation with another fractional, a fractional in a different function. So fractional coo. And we did talk about this. Sometimes people are looking for a fractional, but what they actually needed is a very clear intervention. So perhaps that's something that's more of a consulting piece or a project based piece. But in theory, a fractional is someone who works for you for a particular number of hours or days a week and they're very focused on sort of changing one thing. It could be that they are supporting a senior leader or driving through a particular project to make sure that it happens. But this isn't necessarily replacing someone who would be in that role. So I myself am a chief marketing officer. I typically work alongside chief marketing officers. So I'm not necessarily replacing them. I'm just sort of supporting and really trying to get the train back on the tracks, as it were, if you will.

[Jadi Tillery]

It's a version of what a fractional is. There's also models where, let's say you've lost your CMO for whatever reason or there's been an organizational change and you need to get somebody on board fairly quickly that can fill that gap. So it is somebody who's coming in and helping manage some portion of the business. You and I are both marketing fractionals, but that could be a COO, that could be a CFO. I think we see a lot of fractional CFOs frankly. And that model's been pretty widely adopted. So it feels like that fractional can play a variety of different roles. One that you just outlined was they can sit alongside existing executive structures and support those structures. In your case, you're typically partnering with a venture backed or PE backed CMO to help them sort of achieve those goals. You've talked about, hey, if you're being brought in, there's some part of the business that's underperforming that you're there to help with. But there are other models that are out there which effectively say is you can have a rental executive to manage, say a marketing team or an operations team or a financial team. And sometimes those relationships can last year, sometimes it's literally plug and play. It's just 90 days. You're getting in, you're getting out and you're helping out. Is that a pretty good summary of the world that we live in?

[Judy Tillery]

What do you Think I love the rented executive. I've never heard that before, but that's so apt. And I think, really, when you're talking about a fractional leader, to your point, it really is plug and play. Like, these are individuals who are at a senior level within their career. These are people who do have the situational experience. They have a depth of functional experience. They're really strong in their particular role. So when you bring someone in, they are up to speed very quickly, and they're helping to address and make change within an organization. I see fractional being played a lot by people who are perhaps more junior in their career because they're looking for more of a portfolio experience or they want to kind of create a career in. Whereas they may have previously called themselves freelancers, a freelancer is not the same as a fractional. Like, a fractional is someone who has that very senior strategic mindset and level of experience that can come into a business and get up to speed and make change very quickly.

[Jadi Tillery]

So I'm a CEO, I'm a board member, I'm an investor, I'm a PE Portfolio manager. I'm listening in on this conversation today because you know what? We do have a pretty big audience here at the Martech podcast. And I'm listening in. And this is a new model to me. So guess what? You're going to pitch for the whole industry right now. Are you prepared? You ready?

[Judy Tillery]

Oh, my gosh. Okay, I'll take it.

[Jadi Tillery]

Okay, here we go. Why would I bring in somebody? So let me give you sort of the background, a bit on the skepticism, at least, that I encounter. And then you give me the counterargument, if you will. But there's a fairly significant investment in executives, both from a financial standpoint, but a cultural, a process, a procedure. Like, we really want people in house because guess what, we're a unique butterfly, and they can't possibly learn enough quickly enough to be valuable or useful. I can't imagine there's an executive I can just plug in to do these things. Hey, it's just too hard. I can't have an executive rotating in and out. Whether or not that's a valid argument or not. Talk to me about why somebody should overcome that concern, that challenge. In other words, what's really the benefit of bringing in somebody who has, as you pointed out, these are not people just calling themselves fractionals that are consultants. These are people with 20 years, if not more sort of experience in these environments. Is that the whole counterargument? How would you sort of position that with a skeptical CEO or investor, someone.

[Judy Tillery]

Who would be considering fractional leadership is someone who's coming with a problem or a challenge that isn't being addressed by their senior leadership team. And bringing in someone who has a, an outside perspective, but a wealth of knowledge and experience can only be a value add to your senior leadership team. It doesn't necessarily replace, although you did talk about potentially there's a little bit of a gap change if there's a gap fill if there's sort of leadership change. But really you want to bring someone in who has that outside perspective. I myself, so I have been in marketing for 25 years, worked across different iterations. I've worked agency, client side, startup within a fund, I've built two agencies myself. So I kind of have really seen it all. And I pride myself in particular on being sector agnostic. Now what does that mean? That means that things that have been innovative in one sector can be brought into another to make you leapfrog over and above your competitors and also just sort of gain market share and navigate our shifting landscapes, our shifting consumer landscapes, both on the business to business and the business to consumer direct to consumer markets. So a fractional is someone who really has that knowledge, that skillset, who's been through it, who can support your existing team to address a challenge that you're clearly having. Otherwise, why are you considering sort of fractional leadership?

[Jadi Tillery]

All right, so I think we've unpacked this idea of a fractional really at the end of the day we're trying to understand how it's changing the marketing industry. And I'll just offer up from my perspective that it's becoming unusual. And again, our portfolio has overlapped quite a bit. We're both sort of tech and SaaS focused, VC backed, PE backed. So maybe our world's a little bit smaller and it's different elsewhere. But I find it to be fairly unusual where I'm not running into SaaS, organizations that don't already believe in the model. In other words, it sort of has existed in SaaS for a while and I feel like they have been taking advantage of it and in tech for quite some time. So I'm sort of seeing it change the marketing landscape. And from my perspective what that means is quite often you're getting much more efficiency when it comes to your ability to implement new, different change things that typically you wouldn't see from in house executives. In other words, because of what we do for a living, because we have multiple different accounts and because we have to stay on top of stuff. And because we get to cross pollinate between the accounts quite often, we might have 25 years on our resume, but guess what? We've got incredibly recent experience that's live, that's happening now, now because of what we do for a living. And so how I'm seeing it change things really is that it's allowing organizations to move more quickly, as you said before, because they're getting that outside perspective. But it's not just, hey, I'm the next consultant up, check it out, it's 20, 25 years experience and by the way, it's the last 12 weeks of experience that often sometimes the most germane in terms of sort of pushing things forward. So what I'm seeing is marketing organizations evolving and changing more quickly because of fractionals. That's how I'm sort of seeing things in my part of the world. How about for you, are you seeing it impact marketing in a similar way?

[Judy Tillery]

I think so. I mean, I think there's a lot of questions around the traditional agency model in general. And certainly this provides a very solid alternative for individuals or companies who have been burned in the past by agency relationships and still know that they need change. So a fractional is someone who will come in armed with that knowledge, that skillset, that experience, but also that network of other partners. Whereas a marketing agency kind of has its vested interest in continuing to sell their services to you. We, our success lives and dies off of whether or not we're able to recommend the right partner product service that is going to make an immediate impact. So we are very focused in that respect and I think a lot of agencies are struggling to do that or the concept of the all service agency. Like I don't typically engage myself with all service agencies. I will pull in specialist agencies to address one lever of or one marketing channel in particular that I think is going to make an impact. So I would say that just like I cherry pick the sort of specialist agencies that I want to work with, I think choosing the right sort of individual to come in, rather than just going to one single marketing agency and hoping that they're going to solve all of your problems, it's just not the way that it works anymore.

[Jadi Tillery]

What you're saying is it's sort of what we're leaving behind as fractionals. Right. So if I'm in house, I'm probably leaving behind a decent network of agencies and employees, don't get me wrong. But you're getting that with a fractional and you're not having to be Dependent on, let's say a single agency, as you've spoken about before. So quite often these are folks that are able to get in, do diagnostics really quickly, to be able to actually execute programs very quickly. But also they're sort of leaving behind great process, great systems, great agencies, so that those are things you could build on. How do you see that changing marketing in the future? Do you see that just as my point earlier, sort of increased efficiency, or do you see the world going to maybe more and more fractional adoption? Are we looking forward to board meetings full of fractionals as opposed to employees?

[Judy Tillery]

Oh my gosh, that would be an interesting board meeting full of fractionals.

[Jadi Tillery]

Didn't I see you on the other board meeting yesterday?

[Judy Tillery]

Yeah, that's funny. No, I mean, I think it's an interesting shift for sure in terms of the approach of utilizing fractionals and to your point about leaving companies like in a better place, I think that's really an important element as well, where an agency is kind of just dependent on recurrent revenue and kind of maintaining relationships for the sake of that sort of that revenue, that annual revenue and budget that they're getting. Like really as a fractional, we are only as good as our last success. So we have to continue to be innovating, making sure that we are delivering value for our services and the strategic advice that we're providing and also the relationships. So really trusting that we have very solid relationships that we're recommending in. So I think there will be a lot more scrutiny in terms of who people are choosing to partner with as a result of perhaps having an experience with a fractional because that fractional is just naturally going to bring more of a level of scrutiny than perhaps they have had of their previous agency relationships.

[Jadi Tillery]

Are there situations where you would strongly recommend not bringing a fractional in?

[Judy Tillery]

Yes, I mean, I think when a company doesn't really know what's going wrong, that's maybe a little bit beyond the scope of a fractional. So that's not a fractional engagement where we're talking about, okay, I'm going to work with you for one day, a week for a period of. And typically for myself, I typically work on sort of 90 day cycles. Again, very tied into results driven of working with PE and vc. So in that you're probably looking for more of an engagement like a consulting piece or an intern piece where we're having to dedicate more days and really do a deep dive into the operations, the personnel and possibly doing some gap filling in terms of change Management that isn't something that you can readily do on one day a week because it just drags out the process and it makes it really inefficient when it is a challenge that you're trying to solve but you don't actually know what is broken down. People who tend to, you know, certainly in my perspective, they haven't hit a target. So I'm going in with a very clear monetary or growth goal that I'm trying to achieve within a quick period of time. So that's very focused and specific in terms of the change that I'm trying to make. Someone just saying, like, I don't know what's going on with our sales, like that's a little bit too broad I think for a fractional to engage with.

[Jadi Tillery]

So the symptom in this case is we're not hitting growth objectives. It's going to oversimplify the world because that's what we do on podcasts, right?

[Judy Tillery]

So perfect.

[Jadi Tillery]

We're being brought in and there's this idea of a larger problem. And the symptom in this case is lack of growth or missing growth targets. And I'll give you some scenarios that I run into quite often. And again, same portfolio, same thing. Typically you're coming in because either there's somebody who's left and they need a quick replace placement or there's some larger issue. Again, in this case, symptom is a lack of growth or missing targets. But quite often what I find is that you're running into some of the classic stuff that startups can run into. I have a product to market fit problem. I had product to market fit, but guess what? I no longer have product to market fit. There was a big change when it comes to competitive landscape and suddenly competitors I wasn't worried about before are showing up and causing problems. So I'm curious again, I'm going to go back to sort of the same idea. If you've got this moment where you've done the diagnostic, are you saying, okay, as long as you understand what's going on, you can bring the fractional in, or do you feel like maybe the fractional is a good person to help partner with that diagnostic? In other words, maybe I have a product market fit problem. Maybe I've got a problem with a competitive landscape shifting. I'm just curious, when is that fractional most useful pre diagnostic or post?

[Judy Tillery]

I mean, I certainly think it can start with a diagnostic because even there you've honed it in on product market fit or shifting landscape. So there is something that there is an inkling that, you know, they kind of have a direction of travel that we want to focus on. And I think absolutely, that is when a fractional can be very useful in terms of looking at your ICP or your customer Persona or competitive landscape mapping. Absolutely. Those are very neat, discrete sort of projects that can very easily be wrapped into your one day a week of fractional time that you've bought for your rent and exact. I love that turn of phrase. So, yes, absolutely, they can help with the diagnostic. Clearly, if you're coming to a fractional for advice and solutions, you don't have the solution already. So we can be part of that journey. But having at least sort of a perspective of what you think might be an area of focus, as opposed to just saying, just being a little bit too generic. Understanding that maybe product market fit isn't right, that you're not getting sales conversions anymore or potentially you want to expand your market. You think that you have an entirely new market that you want to tap into because your product has evolved and you're seeing some potential and you want to reevaluate that. So, yeah, absolutely. Fractionals can for sure be part of the diagnostic, but you need to give us a little bit of a head start in terms of the direction of travel.

[Jadi Tillery]

It makes sense. I'll tell you what, I work for an organization that is spread across a lot of different industries. So I have an answer for this question, but I'm super curious. Similar portfolios to you and I, so we don't always spend time outside of our world. But do you feel like there are industries where fractionals just don't make sense? Or do you feel like there are places where fractionals, at the end of the day you shouldn't look at another model, an agency model, hiring somebody, et cetera?

[Judy Tillery]

No, I kind of think fractionals are brilliant, but I'm so biased because I've been fractional for a long time now. But I genuinely, if I just look at my portfolio of clients at the moment, okay, I've got a US biotech, I've got a space tech, which I'm so excited about out of Europe. I have got a recycling services business and waste management business out of the uk. So those are very different things. But they've all come to me for fractional support. So, yes, I think a fractional can be utilized across sectors that maybe you didn't anticipate. We've been talking about tech, we're leaning into tech, we're talking about SaaS, a little bit we're talking about PE back, but really a fractional. Bearing in mind what we talked about, what a fractional is and the purpose that it serves as someone with incredible depth of knowledge, both in terms of experience, functional knowledge of their particular area, their discipline, ours is marketing and situational experiences. So typically companies going through transition or rapid change, how isn't that applicable? It's just how strong your fractional is. If they only have experience in a particular sector, then maybe you want to look for someone who has had a little bit of a broader, not necessarily that depth of sector experience, looking for someone who is a little bit more broader and well versed because they are a little bit of a Swiss army knife and they, they take their functional skill set and they kind of mold it to the sector and the situation that they've encountered perhaps before in another sector. But no, I think that fractional is the future, to be honest with you. And I think whether that is from our particular area of pe, supporting the portfolio, companies that have been backed, or even companies that need some sort of input and know that there needs to be change within the organization, like why not bring in someone who can support you on a strategic basis on a rent and executive level and just help you sort of evolve, change, grow your business.

[Jadi Tillery]

Back to this idea of rent and executive, I think the best way it can sort of express what is turning into a commercial for fractional executives if we're not careful. But the best way it can really express this is, is let's say that you're a small consumer brand and you could bring this former CMO from Clorox on to help you out. Would you do it? And then the follow up is if you could do that, but have it be a tenth of the cost of bringing on the former CMO of Clorox, would you do it? And the answer typically are of course. And of course. And I think that's the way I help people sort of think about this. The other is you've got ramp time. You've got all the things that any executive has to go through to be effective. Guess what? Fractionals have figured out how to compress that down into sometimes days, but often weeks to being able to get to that point where you're highly effective as quickly as you can be. That's the way to look at this and the value prop of it. But I always want to make sure people understand with any new model, and this is pretty new, I feel like it has existed with CFOs rather probably for a Long time under a different term. But it's a fairly new concept and I always want to give people, even though this is our thing, I always want to give people ways of making sure they're not jumping into the wrong part of the world, if you will. So I'm just going to go back and talk about where this potentially doesn't work when it comes to where you are from a revenue cycle standpoint. So let's say that you're a startup, you've got your first round of funding. That feels like a bad place for the fractional to come in. You're storming and forming and norming with a team. You probably have a couple of pivots to go through. Would you agree? That's usually sort of that place where you want to figure it out in Europe. Doesn't mean you couldn't bring a fractional in maybe for a short term gig, but that feels like one of those fuzzy places where it's like you got to sort of figure some of this stuff out on your own. By the way, you probably couldn't afford.

[Judy Tillery]

This anyway in the nicest possible way. It's interesting because I do mentor startups, so I mentioned that I work with Series A. I actually go all the way up to Series D and I have a client that's IPO'd. So typically I'm brought in at more of a level of maturity and also obviously turnover and revenue with companies. But I've been doing mentoring of startups and pre seed startups. So very, very early stage businesses and that's been hugely rewarding for me because off of the back of that I created basically a low cost online school called Founder Foundations which really looks at kind of marketing foundations. But to your point, like that is not the time to be bringing in a fractional exec. That is the time to be looking for mentors. It is potentially the time to be looking for advisors who are happy to work off potentially an hourly rate, whereas a fractional does not typically. I mean, I certainly myself work off of days. That's how I like to manage my diary. So you're looking more at a mentor or an advisor. A fractional isn't really right for you at that stage yet with particular sectors, as you say, I think a fractional CFO could potentially be a value add, but it maybe is not necessarily even CFO level at that early stage of a business. I think really you are looking at sort of advisors or mentors as much as you might think. Oh, a startup, Yes. I can just get A CFO or a CMO for like one day a week. Perfect. My budget stretches to that. You know, I've got that 18 month Runway. Perfect. I can bring them in. No, it's not really the right time. You want to be sort of at a stage of maturity and having someone come in to support maybe your market, mapping your go to market strategy that doesn't necessarily need to be a fractional chief marketing officer who's doing that for you?

[Jadi Tillery]

Yeah, I think you nailed it. And same. I feel like if you're in that sort of pre product market fit seed stage, there are lots of folks like myself who will happily be an advisor as you're sort of working through those things. But it does feel like the ranges, post product market fit, you've sort of established where you need to be. And again, I'm using terminology to describe tech and SaaS, but really after that it's an appropriate model for most folks, depending on the engagement. So I think we've done a pretty good job of unpacking the topic. Anything else you want to mention before we jump today?

[Judy Tillery]

I really think that fractionals are the future. So you've probably tuned into this episode with an inkling that fractional might be the way for you and I would say absolutely explore that. But know that all fractionals are not created equal and that the term freelancer is often used in place of fractional. So really just do your own due diligence in terms of who you're considering for fractional engagement because they can be hugely impactful, but they do need to have that breadth and depth of experience behind them. So that would be my only word of warning. I am the fractional champion. But just know that we're not all created equal.

[Jadi Tillery]

Yeah, I think it's a good point. And be careful, folks that are sort of dressing themselves up as fractionals when at the end of the day it's really somebody who's consultant. So if you're looking at a fractional exactly as you're talking about, Jadi, you want to be somebody who's got that 20, 25 years executive experience in house because frankly you know how to be an operator, but also how to be a strategist in the same place.

[Judy Tillery]

That's true. And also managing the senior leadership team, the politics of the board and the senior leaders as well. So you don't want someone who's got that junior experience. You want someone who really is happy to go shoulder to shoulder and have real conversations with your senior leadership team and your board.

[Jadi Tillery]

I'm really glad you made that final point because I think that's something we completely missed, and that's that the ability to maneuver within the boardroom, within the executive suite is really, really what you're looking for. And that's not something an agency or a consultant who's sort of dressed in the clothing of a fractional could pull off.

[Judy Tillery]

Very true.

[Jadi Tillery]

Okay, that wraps up this episode of the Martech Podcast. Thanks to Jadi for joining us today. In part two of this interview, which we'll publish tomorrow, we're going to dig in and talk about aligning your sales and marketing teams through social media. If you can't wait until our next episode, like to learn more about Jadi. You can find a link to our LinkedIn profile in our Show Notes or visit our company's [e-mail] okay, that wraps.

[Doug Bell]

Up this episode of the Martek Podcast thanks to our guest host Doug Bell, the CMO of Chief Outsiders. If you'd like to get in touch with Doug, you could find a link to his LinkedIn profile in our show notes. Or you can contact him on Twitter where His handle is MarketAdvocate. Or you could just visit his website, which is ChiefOutsiders.com A special thanks to the Current Podcast for sponsoring today's interview. If you're looking for candid conversations with marketing leaders from the world's biggest brands, then give the Current Podcast a listen. On the Current Podcast you'll find exclusive interviews with experts and trendsetters who are on the front lines of digital advertising, and they always leave the ad tech jargon at the door. So subscribe to The Current at www.thecurrent.com or anywhere you get your podcasts today. Just one more link in our Show Notes I'd like to tell you about. If you didn't have a chance to take notes while you were listening to this podcast, head over to martechpod.com where we have summaries of all of our episodes and contact information for our guests. You can also subscribe to our weekly newsletter and you can even apply to be the next guest speaker on the Martech Podcast. Of course, you can always reach out on social media. Our handle is martechpod. M A R T E C H P O D on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook, or you can contact me directly on LinkedIn. My handle is Benjshap B E N J S H A P and if you haven't subscribed yet and you want a daily stream of marketing and technology knowledge in your podcast feed. We're going to publish an episode every day this year, so hit the subscribe button in your podcast app and we'll be back in your feed tomorrow morning. All right, that's it for today, but until next time, my advice is to just focus on keeping your customers happy.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

Thanks for listening to the Martech podcast and I hear everything. Production Looking to launch or scale a podcast like this one for your brand? Then visit iheareverything.com.