If SEO is actually dying, what should marketers stop doing today?

Summary

Podcast Summary:

MarTech Podcast — "If SEO is actually dying, what should marketers stop doing today?"
Host: Benjamin Shapiro
Guest: Ruth Zive, Chief Marketing Officer at Voices
Date: April 29, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode tackles a pressing question in digital marketing: Is SEO dying, and if so, what should marketers cease doing right now? Host Benjamin Shapiro is joined by Ruth Zive, CMO at Voices, who shares her perspective on the evolving landscape of search and web traffic, emphasizing the urgent need for marketers to pivot toward AI-driven discovery strategies and away from legacy SEO approaches.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. SEO’s Decline and Rethinking Marketing Priorities

[02:48-03:30]

• Ruth Zive’s Central Thesis:

  • Marketers need to "stop investing all of your SEO budget in SEO and instead shift it to AI search and start to optimize for AI share of voice."

    “Stop investing all of your SEO budget in SEO and instead shift it to AI search and start to optimize for AI share of voice.”
    — Ruth Zive [02:53]

• SEO and AEO (AI Engine Optimization):

  • While some tactical overlap exists, the goal is shifting.
    • SEO focused on driving web traffic.
    • AEO focuses on discoverability within Large Language Models (LLMs) and AI search, particularly in voice-led experiences.

2. Website Traffic as a Declining Metric

[03:30-04:26]

• Traffic is Shrinking:

  • Most AI-driven answers don’t even link out to websites anymore (over 80%, per Zive’s reference).

    “The majority of answers served up inside of the LLMs don't even include links. I think I read this week that it was more than 80% so we shouldn't expect nearly as much website traffic.”
    — Ruth Zive [03:30]

  • Marketers must adapt content and discoverability strategies to fit this new paradigm, which will be dominated by voice-led, conversational AI.

    • The notion of the website as the center of marketing is “going away.”

3. The Click is No Longer King

[04:26-05:26]

• Not the Gold Standard Anymore:

  • Traditional tracking through clicks and web visits loses its value.
  • Marketers need to use more faith-based, brand-focused strategies instead of purely obsessing about measurable digital interactions.

    “The click is dying in some capacity. What you do in your marketing activity, driving someone to an experience where they then go to your website and you have trackable information... Marketers are going to have to start taking a leap of faith and start thinking about brand activities.”
    — Benjamin Shapiro [04:26]

• Ruth’s Revised North Star:

  > “The stop or the don't is, you know, stop prioritizing website traffic as your North Star for SEO."  
  — Ruth Zive [05:11]
  

4. Memorable Quotes & Philosophy Shift

• Benjamin Shapiro:

  "Yeah, scary. Stop counting clicks." [05:22]

• Ruth Zive:

  "Right?" [05:26]

• Summary of the new paradigm:

  • Marketers must break their “default sensibility around websites.”
  • The future of brand discoverability is inside AI-led, voice-first environments—not just keyword-optimized content and clickable links.

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Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• Ruth Zive:

  “Stop investing all of your SEO budget in SEO and instead shift it to AI search and start to optimize for AI share of voice.” [02:53]

• Ruth Zive:

  “The majority of answers served up inside of the LLMs don't even include links. I think I read this week that it was more than 80% so we shouldn't expect nearly as much website traffic.” [03:30]

• Benjamin Shapiro:

  “The click is dying in some capacity... Marketers are going to have to start taking a leap of faith and start thinking about brand activities.” [04:26]

• Ruth Zive:

  “Stop prioritizing website traffic as your North Star for SEO.” [05:11]

• Benjamin Shapiro:

  "Yeah, scary. Stop counting clicks." [05:22]

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Segment Timestamps

• [02:48] Main question posed: What should marketers stop in response to SEO’s decline?
• [02:53-03:10] Ruth’s advice: Stop spending purely on SEO, refocus on AI search and optimization.
• [03:30-04:26] Discussion on the decline of website traffic and the impact of LLMs and AI-first search.
• [04:26-05:26] The diminishing value of the click and website visit as primary measures of marketing success.

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Conclusion:

This episode is a clarion call for marketers to move beyond traditional SEO and clicks-based metrics, embracing the rapidly approaching era where AI-led experiences—especially voice-first—dominate. The panel urges listeners to adjust their strategies so their brands remain discoverable and relevant in a future where links and website visits matter far less than presence and authority within AI environments.

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Transcript

[Podcast Announcer]

The Martech Podcast is a proud member of the I Hear Everything Podcast Network. Looking to launch or scale your podcast, I Hear Everything delivers podcast production, growth and monetization solutions that transform your words into profit. Ready to give your brand a voice? Then visit iheareverything.com.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

From advertising to software as a service to data across all of our programs and clients, we've seen a 55 to 65% open rate. Getting brands authentically integrated into content performs better than TV advertising. Typical lifespan of an article is about 24 to 36 hours. We're reaching out to the right person with the right message and a clear call to action. Then it's just a matter of timing.

[Podcast Announcer]

Welcome to the Martech Podcast, a member of the I Hear Everything Podcast Network. In this podcast, you'll hear the stories of world class marketers that use use technology to drive business results and achieve career success. Here's the host of the Martech Podcast, Benjamin Shapiro

[Benjamin Shapiro]

I'm Benjamin Shapiro and joining me today is Ruth Zive, the Chief Marketing Officer at Voices Voices works with over 60,000 enterprise customers including Microsoft, BMW and Shopify to power their voice experiences across marketing products and AI systems. And today, Ruth is going to explain how you need to rethink brand building in a voice First.

[Shift Paradigm Sponsor]

World Today's interview is brought to you by Shift Paradigm. Marketing today is buried in complexity. You've got the tech, you've got the tools, but moving the needle feels harder than ever. And the last thing us marketers need is another consultant pitching digital transformation. Enter Shift Paradigm Shift is an integrated team of experts who help enterprise brands turn complexity into traction. Their work is insight led and strategically grounded, designed not to sell you a service or a piece of tech, but to actually solve real business challenges. What makes them different? Well, they're AI enabled but not AI dependent. They're human first, but plugged into the latest tools and models and the moments those models need to go through to prove themselves. They get techy without losing sight of the real person behind every click. And they don't just hand you a deck, they build the blueprints and stay to develop, deploy and run the engine. Growth isn't one size fits all, so stop settling for strategies that collect dust and start working with the team that actually builds for you. Visit ShiftParadigm.com to see how they can help you connect meaningfully with your audience. That's ShiftParadigm.com let's move on to our next question.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

If SEO is dying, what should marketers stop doing today?

[Ruth Zive]

Stop. I'm going to try to frame the STOP as a start. Stop investing all of your SEO budget in SEO and instead shift it to AI search and start to optimize for AI share of voice.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

Okay, so stop investing in SEO because it's dying. Start invest in AEO because it's building. But a lot of the practices in SEO and AEO are pretty similar. So am I not doing keyword optimization? What's the actual difference in terms of implementation?

[Ruth Zive]

Well, I think the macro difference is that you're not trying to drive traffic anymore. It's just going to stop happening. You know, the. I think the majority of answers served up inside of the LLMs don't even include links. I think I read this week that it was more than 80% so we shouldn't expect nearly as much website traffic. And if that's the case, how are you writing content? How are you growing brand awareness? How are you driving discoverability inside of that LLM first experience, which by the way will be mostly voice led in the future. So there's nobody's going to go to a website. They're going to be asking the LLM in their voice to find answers for them and you better show up inside of that experience. So we've got to like break this, you know, default sensibility around websites. I think it's going away.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

Yeah, I, I don't disagree. I think that there'll still be a place for a website and people want to see visual experiences and it's websites are going to be deprioritized. I don't know if I agree they're going to go away, but the click is dying in some capacity. Right. What you do in your marketing activity, driving someone to an experience where they then go to your website and you have trackable information. I do think marketers are going to have to start taking a leap of faith and start thinking about brand activities. And because the click isn't necessarily the gold standard of what marketing was successful, that got someone into a trackable, nurturable sequence.

[Ruth Zive]

Well, maybe, maybe that's a great way to put it. So the stop or the don't is, you know, stop prioritizing website traffic as your North Star for SEO.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

Yeah, scary. Stop counting clicks.

[Ruth Zive]

Right?

[Benjamin Shapiro]

All right, that wraps up this episode of the Martech podcast. Thanks to Ruth Zaib, the CMO of Voices, for joining us.

[Shift Paradigm Sponsor]

A special thanks to Shift Paradigm for sponsoring this podcast. Shift is an integrated team of experts who help enterprise brands bridge the gap between strategy data and customers. Human first, AI enabled and execution led. They build the blueprints, then stay to develop, deploy and run the engine you need. So stop settling for decks that collect dust and start working with a team that actually builds for you. Visit ShiftParadigm.com to see how they can help you connect meaningfully with with your audience.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

If you'd like to contact Ruth, you can find a link to her LinkedIn profile in our show notes or on martechpod.com, or you could visit her company's website, which is voices.com if you haven't subscribed yet and you want a daily stream of marketing and technology knowledge in your podcast feed, hit the subscribe button in your podcast app or follow us on YouTube where we'll be back every week. All right, that's it for today, but until next time, my advice is to just focus on keeping your customers happy.

[Ruth Zive]

Sa.

[Podcast Announcer]

Thanks for listening to the Martech podcast and I hear everything. Production Looking to launch or scale a podcast like this one for your brand? Then visit iheareverything.com.