Pitch to a 25-year-old performance marketer to get them to test direct mail

Summary

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MarTech Podcast™ – “Pitch to a 25-year-old performance marketer to get them to test direct mail”

Date: January 22, 2026
Host: Benjamin Shapiro
Guest: Ryan Ferrier, CEO of Lob

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the challenge of convincing young, data-driven performance marketers—specifically 25-year-olds—to test direct mail as a viable and valuable marketing channel alongside digital and email. Featuring a lively role-play between host Benjamin Shapiro and guest Ryan Ferrier, the conversation explores how direct mail is evolving, its unexpected ease of integration, measurement capabilities, and its emerging strategic importance in omnichannel marketing stacks.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Strategic Gap: Direct Mail as Arbitrage

• Ryan Ferrier immediately positions direct mail as an “arbitrage” opportunity—an underutilized channel where marketers can differentiate themselves and find outsized value.
  • Quote (Ryan Ferrier, 01:22):

    “Your greatest arbitrage is being in high value positions where your competitors are not... my encouragement to you is to test direct mail. And my bet is that'll become the third leg of your marketing stool next to digital and email.”

2. Measurement & Attribution: Speaking the Performance Language

• The traditional objections from younger marketers are addressed: “If I can’t measure ROAS (Return on Ad Spend) like I do on TikTok and Instagram, why should I care?”
• Ryan Ferrier outlines how direct mail's trackability has evolved:
  • It's as easy to send as an email, sometimes easier than launching a digital ad campaign.
  • Personalized URLs (PURLs) enable direct attribution from a mail piece to a digital response.
  • Marketers can run controlled tests—direct mail vs. digital, and measure true incremental lift.
  • Quote (Ryan Ferrier, 02:09):

    “I think you'd be surprised at the capabilities of direct mail. And we've made it as easy to send as an email and in some ways easier to launch than even an ad campaign. But you're going to know the ROAS based on the response rates from the personalized URLs... and look at incremental lift.”

3. Direct Mail’s Role in Modern Marketing Stacks

• Ryan Ferrier predicts that direct mail will become the “third leg” of the omnichannel marketing stool—joining digital and email rather than replacing or competing with them.

4. Generational Banter & Cultural References

• The hosts engage in playful banter, joking about their inability to sound like 25-year-olds and poking fun at Gen Z slang, e.g., “Riz” and “Skibidi.”
  • Memorable moment (Benjamin Shapiro, 02:42):

    “I'll be honest, I don't know how to talk like a 25 year old anymore. But I've got a 5 and a 9 year old at home and they just repeatedly say 67767.”

  • Ryan Ferrier, replying (02:51):

    “Yep, and Riz.”

  • Benjamin Shapiro (02:52):

    “Is that Riz? Okay, let's move on to the next.”

• This banter contributes a light tone but underscores the generational gap between old-school and new-school marketing mindsets.

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Notable Quotes and Segments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote / Moment | |-----------|----------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:22 | Ryan Ferrier | “Your greatest arbitrage is being in high value positions where your competitors are not... test direct mail. And my bet is that'll become the third leg of your marketing stool” | | 02:09 | Ryan Ferrier | “I think you'd be surprised at the capabilities of direct mail... as easy to send as an email and in some ways easier to launch than even an ad campaign...” | | 02:42 | Benjamin Shapiro | “I'll be honest, I don't know how to talk like a 25 year old anymore. But I've got a 5 and a 9 year old at home and they just repeatedly say 67767.” | | 02:51 | Ryan Ferrier | “Yep, and Riz.” | | 02:57 | Benjamin Shapiro | “Yeah. Well, if we're saying it,... it's probably not cool.” | | 03:02 | Ryan Ferrier | “Yeah, just don't say skibidi. That's like, out.” |

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Key Takeaways

• Direct mail is now just as measurable and scalable as digital channels, addressing common objections from data-driven marketers.
• Using unique URLs and response tracking, marketers can now confidently attribute ROI to their direct mail efforts.
• The channel remains underutilized by most digital-native brands, creating a unique opportunity for those willing to test and learn.
• Marketers shouldn’t see direct mail as “old school” but as a fresh, innovation-ready component of modern omnichannel marketing.
• The ongoing evolution of attribution, automation, and technology means channels like direct mail can fit seamlessly into growth strategies for even the most digitally native teams.

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Segment Timestamps

• 01:15 – “What’s your pitch to a 25-year-old performance marketer to get them to test direct mail?”
• 01:22 – 01:43 – Ryan’s core pitch: Arbitrage and direct mail as the “third leg.”
• 01:50 – 02:42 – Role-play: Measuring ROAS on direct mail, personalization, and testing.
• 02:42 – 03:04 – Light-hearted banter and generational jokes.
• 03:04 – 03:50 – Closing remarks, guest contact info, and call to subscribe.

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Tone & Atmosphere

The episode is engaging, witty, and practical—providing actionable insights while maintaining a light and relatable tone. The role-play and banter help bridge generational perspectives, making the topic accessible and relevant to younger marketers who might be skeptical of “old school” channels like direct mail.

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For More Information

• Guest: Ryan Ferrier (LinkedIn and lob.com)
• Podcast: martechpod.com

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Summary by MarTech Podcast Summarizer — Listen to the full episode for deeper insights and more marketing wisdom.

Transcript

[A]

The Martech Podcast is a proud member of the I Hear Everything Podcast Network. Looking to launch or scale your podcast, I Hear Everything delivers podcast production, growth and monetization solutions that transform your words into profit. Ready to give your brand a voice? Then visit iheareverything.com.

[B]

From advertising to software as a service.

[C]

To data across all of our programs and clients clients, we've seen a 55 to 65% open rate.

[B]

Getting brands authentically integrated into content performs better than TV advertising. Typical lifespan of an article is about 24 to 36 hours.

[C]

If we're reaching out to the right person with the right message and a clear call to action, then it's just a matter of timing.

[A]

Welcome to the Martech Podcast, a member of the I Hear Everything Podcast Network. In this podcast, you'll hear the stories of world class marketers that you use technology to drive business results and achieve career success. Here's the host of the Martech Podcast, Benjamin Shapiro.

[B]

All right, let's move on to our next question. What's your pitch to a 25 year old performance marketer to get them to.

[C]

Test direct mail for you? Your greatest arbitrage is being in high value positions where your competitors are not. And so my encouragement to you is to test direct mail. And my bet is that'll become the third leg of your marketing stool next to digital and email.

[B]

Let me play a 25 year old marketer. Hopefully we can digitally enhance this to make it younger.

[C]

Yeah, we'll both go back in time.

[B]

Yeah, but I know what my roas is on TikTok and Facebook. Well, nobody uses Facebook anymore but Instagram, that's still a thing. And whatever other social network we're on these days. But how am I going to know like roas and all the digital stuff is way cooler.

[C]

Sure, digital may be way cooler in your eyes. That said, I think you'd be surprised at the capabilities of direct mail. And we've made it as easy to send as an email and in some ways easier to launch than even an ad campaign. But you're going to know the ROAS based on the response rates from the personalized URLs that you that you send folks to, as well as you're going to test direct mail and digital campaigns alongside purely digital campaigns. And look at incremental lift.

[B]

I'll be honest, I don't know how to talk like a 25 year old anymore. But I've got a 5 and a 9 year old at home and they just repeatedly say 67767.

[C]

Yep, and Riz.

[B]

Is that Riz? Okay, let's move on to the next.

[C]

Riz is old, but yeah.

[B]

Yeah. Well, if we're saying it, if six seven has gotten to the Martech podcast, it's probably not cool.

[C]

Yeah, just don't say skibidi. That's like, out.

[B]

Don't even get me started. All right, that wraps up this episode of the Martech Podcast. Thanks to Ryan Ferrier, the CEO of Lob, for joining us. If you'd like to contact Ryan, you could find a link to his LinkedIn profile in our show notes or on martechpod.com or you can visit his company's website, which is loblob.com if you haven't subscribed yet and you want a daily stream of marketing and technology knowledge in your podcast feed, hit the subscribe button in your podcast app or subscribe on YouTube and we'll be back in your feed next week. All right, that's it for today, but until next time, my advice is to just focus on keeping your customers happy.

[C]

Foreign.

[A]

Thanks for listening to the Martech Podcast, and I hear everything. Production Looking to launch or scale a podcast like this one for your brand? Then visit iheareverything.com.