MarTech Podcast™ – “Pitch to a 25-year-old performance marketer to get them to test direct mail”

Date: January 22, 2026
Host: Benjamin Shapiro
Guest: Ryan Ferrier, CEO of Lob

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the challenge of convincing young, data-driven performance marketers—specifically 25-year-olds—to test direct mail as a viable and valuable marketing channel alongside digital and email. Featuring a lively role-play between host Benjamin Shapiro and guest Ryan Ferrier, the conversation explores how direct mail is evolving, its unexpected ease of integration, measurement capabilities, and its emerging strategic importance in omnichannel marketing stacks.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Strategic Gap: Direct Mail as Arbitrage

• Ryan Ferrier immediately positions direct mail as an “arbitrage” opportunity—an underutilized channel where marketers can differentiate themselves and find outsized value.
  • Quote (Ryan Ferrier, 01:22):

    “Your greatest arbitrage is being in high value positions where your competitors are not... my encouragement to you is to test direct mail. And my bet is that'll become the third leg of your marketing stool next to digital and email.”

2. Measurement & Attribution: Speaking the Performance Language

• The traditional objections from younger marketers are addressed: “If I can’t measure ROAS (Return on Ad Spend) like I do on TikTok and Instagram, why should I care?”
• Ryan Ferrier outlines how direct mail's trackability has evolved:
  • It's as easy to send as an email, sometimes easier than launching a digital ad campaign.
  • Personalized URLs (PURLs) enable direct attribution from a mail piece to a digital response.
  • Marketers can run controlled tests—direct mail vs. digital, and measure true incremental lift.
  • Quote (Ryan Ferrier, 02:09):

    “I think you'd be surprised at the capabilities of direct mail. And we've made it as easy to send as an email and in some ways easier to launch than even an ad campaign. But you're going to know the ROAS based on the response rates from the personalized URLs... and look at incremental lift.”

3. Direct Mail’s Role in Modern Marketing Stacks

• Ryan Ferrier predicts that direct mail will become the “third leg” of the omnichannel marketing stool—joining digital and email rather than replacing or competing with them.

4. Generational Banter & Cultural References

• The hosts engage in playful banter, joking about their inability to sound like 25-year-olds and poking fun at Gen Z slang, e.g., “Riz” and “Skibidi.”
  • Memorable moment (Benjamin Shapiro, 02:42):

    “I'll be honest, I don't know how to talk like a 25 year old anymore. But I've got a 5 and a 9 year old at home and they just repeatedly say 67767.”

  • Ryan Ferrier, replying (02:51):

    “Yep, and Riz.”

  • Benjamin Shapiro (02:52):

    “Is that Riz? Okay, let's move on to the next.”

• This banter contributes a light tone but underscores the generational gap between old-school and new-school marketing mindsets.

Notable Quotes and Segments

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote / Moment | |-----------|----------------------|---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:22 | Ryan Ferrier | “Your greatest arbitrage is being in high value positions where your competitors are not... test direct mail. And my bet is that'll become the third leg of your marketing stool” | | 02:09 | Ryan Ferrier | “I think you'd be surprised at the capabilities of direct mail... as easy to send as an email and in some ways easier to launch than even an ad campaign...” | | 02:42 | Benjamin Shapiro | “I'll be honest, I don't know how to talk like a 25 year old anymore. But I've got a 5 and a 9 year old at home and they just repeatedly say 67767.” | | 02:51 | Ryan Ferrier | “Yep, and Riz.” | | 02:57 | Benjamin Shapiro | “Yeah. Well, if we're saying it,... it's probably not cool.” | | 03:02 | Ryan Ferrier | “Yeah, just don't say skibidi. That's like, out.” |

Key Takeaways

• Direct mail is now just as measurable and scalable as digital channels, addressing common objections from data-driven marketers.
• Using unique URLs and response tracking, marketers can now confidently attribute ROI to their direct mail efforts.
• The channel remains underutilized by most digital-native brands, creating a unique opportunity for those willing to test and learn.
• Marketers shouldn’t see direct mail as “old school” but as a fresh, innovation-ready component of modern omnichannel marketing.
• The ongoing evolution of attribution, automation, and technology means channels like direct mail can fit seamlessly into growth strategies for even the most digitally native teams.

Segment Timestamps

• 01:15 – “What’s your pitch to a 25-year-old performance marketer to get them to test direct mail?”
• 01:22 – 01:43 – Ryan’s core pitch: Arbitrage and direct mail as the “third leg.”
• 01:50 – 02:42 – Role-play: Measuring ROAS on direct mail, personalization, and testing.
• 02:42 – 03:04 – Light-hearted banter and generational jokes.
• 03:04 – 03:50 – Closing remarks, guest contact info, and call to subscribe.

Tone & Atmosphere

The episode is engaging, witty, and practical—providing actionable insights while maintaining a light and relatable tone. The role-play and banter help bridge generational perspectives, making the topic accessible and relevant to younger marketers who might be skeptical of “old school” channels like direct mail.

For More Information

• Guest: Ryan Ferrier (LinkedIn and lob.com)
• Podcast: martechpod.com

Summary by MarTech Podcast Summarizer — Listen to the full episode for deeper insights and more marketing wisdom.