Stop obsessing over this marketing metric

Summary

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MarTech Podcast ™ – "Stop Obsessing Over This Marketing Metric"

Date: June 23, 2026
Host: Benjamin Shapiro
Guest: Amanda Cole, CMO of BloomReach
Sponsor: Shift Paradigm

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Episode Overview

In this concise but insightful episode, host Benjamin Shapiro sits down for a rapid-fire "lightning round" with Amanda Cole, Chief Marketing Officer of BloomReach. The focus of their conversation is on marketing metrics—specifically, which ones industry leaders obsess over that don’t actually move the business needle as much as people might think. The discussion highlights common misconceptions in both B2B and B2C marketing, and challenges listeners to reframe how they define meaningful growth.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Overrated Metrics in Marketing

• [02:34] Benjamin Shapiro kicks off the lightning round by asking which commonly obsessed-over marketing metrics matter far less than most people assume.
  • Amanda Cole quickly responds:

    "I mean, on B2B, I would say probably leads."
    —Amanda Cole [02:41]

  • For B2C, Amanda points to:

    "In B2C, probably database size. It's a bicep measuring contest, if you will. How big is your database?"
    —Amanda Cole [02:44]

2. The Database Size Fallacy

• Benjamin elaborates on why database size is not the right yardstick:

  "And how we get that in podcasting all the time, which is how many downloads do you get? I'm like, you know, getting a download is a file on a device. It's not a listener, it's not a listen."
  —Benjamin Shapiro [02:50]

• The banter highlights how marketers often chase vanity metrics without considering their true impact on engagement or business outcomes.

3. The Real Measure of Success

• The conversation points toward the importance of focusing on metrics that drive actual business goals, such as genuine engagement and customer satisfaction, rather than inflated numbers that look impressive but lack substance.

4. Notable Sponsor Insight

• [01:15-02:25] Amanda Cole (on behalf of sponsor Shift Paradigm) introduces a human-first, AI-enabled approach to marketing strategy, emphasizing practicality over theoretical solutions:

  "They get techy without losing sight of the real person behind every click. And they don't just hand you a deck. They build the blueprints and stay to develop, deploy and run the engine."
  —Amanda Cole [01:55]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On B2B and B2C Vanity Metrics

  "On B2B, I would say probably leads...In B2C, probably database size. It's a bicep measuring contest, if you will."
  —Amanda Cole [02:41-02:44]

• On Podcast Downloads

  "...getting a download is a file on a device. It's not a listener, it's not a listen."
  —Benjamin Shapiro [02:50]

• On Building for Business, Not Just Presenting Ideas

  "They don't just hand you a deck. They build the blueprints and stay to develop, deploy and run the engine."
  —Amanda Cole [01:55]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:15-02:25] – Sponsor insight: Shift Paradigm’s practical approach to marketing complexity
• [02:25-03:17] – Main discussion: Lightning round on overrated marketing metrics in B2B and B2C
• [02:41] – Amanda Cole identifies B2B leads as an overrated metric
• [02:44] – Amanda Cole discusses B2C database size
• [02:50] – Benjamin critiques the value of download numbers in podcasting

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Key Takeaways

• Marketers and executives often overvalue metrics like lead quantity (in B2B) or raw database size (in B2C), which can be misleading indicators of growth.
• True success is measured by meaningful engagement and the quality of interactions, rather than by vanity metrics that can be easily inflated but provide little actionable insight.
• Marketers should focus less on impressing with large numbers, and more on tangible outcomes that drive business growth and customer satisfaction.

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For more insights:

• Connect with Amanda Cole on LinkedIn or visit bloomreach.com.
• Learn about Shift Paradigm’s solutions at ShiftParadigm.com.

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Closing Thought:

"Just focus on keeping your customers happy."
—Benjamin Shapiro [03:47]

Transcript

[Podcast Network Announcer]

The Martech Podcast is a proud member of the I Hear Everything Podcast Network. Looking to launch or scale your podcast, I Hear Everything delivers podcast production, growth and monetization solutions that transform your words into profit. Ready to give your brand a voice? Then visit iheareverything.com.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

From advertising to software as a service to data across all of our programs and clients, we've seen a 55 to 65% open rate. Getting brands authentically integrated into content performs better than TV advertising. Typical lifespan of an article is about 24 to 36 hours. We're reaching out to the right person with the right message and a clear call to action. Then it's just a matter of timing.

[Podcast Network Announcer]

Welcome to the Martech Podcast, a member of the I Hear Everything Podcast Network. In this podcast, you'll hear the stories of world class marketers that used technology to drive business results and achieve career success. Here's the host of the Martech Podcast, Benjamin Shapiro.

[Amanda Cole]

Today's interview is brought to you by Shift Paradigm. Marketing today is buried in complexity. You've got the tech, you've got the tools, but moving the needle feels harder than ever. And the last thing us marketers need is another consultant pitching digital transformation. Enter Shift Paradigm Shift is an integrated team of experts who help enterprise brands turn complexity into traction. Their work is insight led and strategically grounded, designed not to sell you a service or a piece of tech, but to actually solve real business challenges. What makes them different? Well, they're AI enabled but not AI dependent. They're human first, but plugged into the latest tools and models and the moments those models need to go through to prove themselves. They get techy without losing sight of the real person behind every click. And they don't just hand you a deck. They build the blueprints and stay to develop, deploy and run the engine. Growth isn't one size fits all. So stop settling for strategies that collect dust and start working with the team that actually builds for you. Visit ShiftParadigm.com to see how they can help you connect meaningfully with your audience. That's ShiftParadigm.com all right, Amanda, we're going

[Benjamin Shapiro]

to move on to our lightning round where I'm going to ask you a couple of Martech related questions, stuff about your career, maybe even a little brand strategy and AI.

[Amanda Cole]

Are you ready? I'm ready. I think.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

What's the biggest marketing metrics that executives obsess over that matters way less than they think? Probably.

[Amanda Cole]

I mean, on B2B, I would say probably leads.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

In B2C, probably database size, database size. It's a bicep measuring contest, if you will. How big is your database? I think it's. And how we get that in podcasting all the time, which is how many downloads do you get? I'm like, you know, getting a download is a file on a device. It's not a listener, it's not a listen. There's a lot of bad metaphors. I'll stay away from them. All right, and that wraps up this episode of the Martech Podcast. Thanks to Amanda Cole, the CMO of BloomReach, for joining us.

[Amanda Cole]

A special thanks to Shift Paradigm for sponsoring this podcast. Shift is an integrated team of experts who help enterprise brands bridge the gap between strategy data and customers. Human first, AI enabled and execution led. They build the blueprints, then stay to develop, deploy, and run the engine you need. So stop settling for decks that collect dust and start working with a team that actually builds for you. Visit ShiftParadigm.com to see how they can help you connect meaningfully with your audience.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

If you'd like to contact Amanda, you can find a link to her LinkedIn profile in our show notes or on martechpod.com or you can visit her company's website, which is bloomreach.com if you haven't subscribed yet and you want a daily stream of marketing and technology knowledge in your podcast feed, hit the subscribe button in your podcast app or on YouTube and we'll be back in your feed next week. All right, that's it for today, but until next time, my advice is to just focus on keeping your customers happy.

[Podcast Network Announcer]

Foreign. Thanks for listening to the Martech podcast and I hear everything. Production Looking to launch or scale a podcast like this one for your brand? Then visit iheareverything.com.