The biggest risk of marketers trusting AI

Summary

MarTech Podcast Summary

Episode: The Biggest Risk of Marketers Trusting AI
Host: Benjamin Shapiro
Guest: Dave Steer, CMO of Webflow
Date: October 24, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Benjamin Shapiro welcomes Dave Steer, Chief Marketing Officer at Webflow, to discuss the evolving relationship between marketers and artificial intelligence (AI) tools. They explore how marketers risk losing their edge by over-relying on AI, and they share strategies for leveraging AI as a true partner—not a crutch—to achieve exceptional results. Key insights center on maintaining human judgment, creativity, and strategy amid the AI boom.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Real Risk: Abdicating Human Judgment to AI

• Main Idea: The greatest danger isn’t “trusting AI” per se, but rather marketers giving up the human elements of strategy, creativity, and critical thinking.
• Dave Steer:
  • Warns against “lazy marketing,” where marketers “stop thinking for themselves, stop applying their judgments and put something into ChatGPT or Claude and then just take the output and send the email out without actually thinking it through…” [01:41–02:23]
  • Emphasizes the necessity of the marketer’s role as "chief orchestrator" who ensures creative, strategic direction and brand building.
  • “If we abdicate our role to LLMs, we're just going to be sloppy.” [02:23]

2. The Hazards of Workflow Automation Without Understanding

• Host Reflection (Benjamin Shapiro):
  • Describes engaging in “vibe coding”—experimenting with AI-generated code and automation without fully understanding the details, which leads to lapses in critical thinking.
  • Admits feeling mentally “numb” after such sessions: “If you ask me my middle name, half the time I’m like, I can’t process a rational thought. And I do think that that happens to marketers…” [03:22–03:39]
  • Warns that relying solely on output from AI fosters a habit of accepting results without questioning or deeper engagement.

3. Power Use of AI: Treating AI as Your Chief of Staff

• Dave Steer:
  • Shares a transformative use case with a custom “CMO chief of staff GPT,” populated with company knowledge and decision-making frameworks.
  • Outlines its evolution: initially serving as an “onboarding buddy,” then becoming an active, challenging “chief of staff.”
  • “I use this at least once a day as my partner. And so that's the way to not be lazy...treat this thing, really, as a chief of staff who's sitting right by me and helping me make decisions.” [03:49–04:57]

4. Giving AI Effective Context and Authority

• Benjamin Shapiro:
  • Names his AI assistant “Jarvis” and instructs it to ask probing questions—creating an active, context-aware digital partner.
  • Equates the dynamic to Ironman’s assistant, highlighting the importance of ongoing interaction and challenge from the AI side [04:57].

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dave Steer [02:17]:
  “I think the biggest risk is, isn't overly trusting AI, it's forgetting the important role that the marketer serves as a human being and chief orchestrator of the creativity and brand building and growth that they're putting out in the market."
• Benjamin Shapiro [03:35]:
  “Then they stop thinking and just want the outputs. It’s like mind numbing. Yeah.”
• Dave Steer [04:44]:
  “…that’s the way to not be lazy. Right? That’s the way to treat this thing, really as a chief of staff who’s sitting right by me and helping me make decisions."

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:41 – 02:23: Dave Steer discusses the risk of lazy marketing and abdication of critical human input to AI.
• 03:22 – 03:49: Benjamin Shapiro talks about “vibe coding” and losing critical thinking while interacting with LLMs.
• 03:49 – 04:57: Dave Steer shares the “chief of staff” AI use case and explains the right way to partner with AI.
• 04:57: Benjamin Shapiro describes naming his assistant “Jarvis” and giving it context for better engagement.

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Episode Takeaways

• Blind trust in AI and a hands-off approach leads to generic, less effective marketing.
• Marketers must continue to apply strategic thinking, leveraging AI as a thought partner instead of a replacement.
• Human creativity, judgment, and intuition are irreplaceable—AI should amplify, not replace, these strengths.
• Customizing AI to act as an active “chief of staff” or assistant can unlock far greater value than rote output generation.

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This episode will resonate with marketers seeking to find the balance between harnessing the power of AI and nurturing the very human qualities that drive standout marketing performance.

Transcript

[Podcast Host]

The Martech Podcast is a proud member of the I Hear Everything Podcast Network. Looking to launch or scale your podcast, I Hear Everything delivers podcast production, growth and monetization solutions that transform your words into profit. Ready to give your brand a voice? Then visit iheareverything.com.

[Dave Steer]

From advertising to software as a service to data, across all of our programs and clients, we've seen a 55 to 65% open rate. Getting brands authentically integrated into content performs better than TV advertising.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

Typical lifespan of an article is about 24 to 36 hours.

[Dave Steer]

We're reaching out to the right person with the right message and a clear call to action. Then it's just a matter of timing.

[Podcast Host]

Welcome to the Martech Podcast, a member of the I Hear Everything Podcast network. In this podcast, you'll hear the stories of world class marketers that used technology to drive business results and achieve career success. Here's a host of the Martech Podcast, Benjamin Shapiro.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

I'm Benjamin Shapiro and joining me today is Dave Steer, the CMO of webflow, which is a platform helping marketing teams build and optimize websites with enterprise grade performance and AI driven personalization. And today Dave is going to show us how to navigate the AI boom and deliver digital experiences that move the needle. All right, where do you see the biggest risk of marketers trusting AI?

[Dave Steer]

Every now and then I'll engage with what I think of kind of lazy marketing where the marketers stops thinking for themselves, stops applying their judgments and put something into ChatGPT or Cloud and then just takes the output and sends the email out without actually thinking it through or creates the creative brief without actually like really thinking strategically about is this the right creative brief or is this the right content or is this the right experimentation, you know, approach to take? And so I think the biggest risk is, isn't overly trusting AI, it's forgetting the important role that the marketer serves as a human being and chief orchestrator of the creativity and brand building and growth that they're putting out in the market. If we abdicate our role to LLMs, we're just going to be sloppy.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

Yeah, it's funny, I find myself doing more vibe coding, becoming more of an engineer, doing more things that I don't understand, and you know, testing and experimenting and building out our workflows. And that's all well and good. When I'm done with like this three hour coding session and I've got this wonderful, well orchestrated workflow that now, you know, automatically does the work we used to do, I find myself being very Stupid, right? I, I am just I. Because I. You get trained to going back and forth and taking what the LLM gives you and then seeing if it works and just assume right. And stopping the critical thinking. I don't have the ability to read the code.

[Dave Steer]

Right.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

I don't speak that language.

[Dave Steer]

Right.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

I code in English. But then when I'm done and I'm just in this habit of going back and forth and taking what it says and see if it works and I'm done vibe coding. If you ask me my middle name, half the time I'm like, I can't process a rational thought. And I do think that that happens to marketers where they're just like, write this copy, write this copy, write this copy, create this brief. And then they stop thinking and just want the outputs. It's like mind numbing. Yeah.

[Dave Steer]

Let me give you a great use case, which is AI as your chief of staff. And the way that that played out for me has been game changing. So I started my job here and my boss created a CMO chief of staff GPT. And he fed it with all the context and all of the insights inside the company, and also his thinking and different frameworks for making decisions. And then he said, look, for the first month, I'd like you to be Dave's onboarding buddy, be there to answer his questions. But on month two, I want you to go from onboarding buddy to his chief of staff. And I don't want you to just have Dave as like a mediocre CMO. I want him to be the top 1% of CMOs out there, so challenge his thinking, et cetera, et cetera. And I use this at least once a day as my partner. And so that's the way to not be lazy. Right? That's the way to treat this thing, really as a chief of staff essentially, who's sitting right by me and helping me make decisions.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

I named mine Jarvis and I told it to be a Jarvis like assistant, as if it was an ironman, but specifically to help me grow my business. And that seemed to be enough context for it to understand that it should keep asking me questions. That wraps up this episode of the Martech podcast. Thanks for listening to my conversation with Dave Steer the CMO of webflow. If you'd like to get in touch with Dave, you could find a link to his LinkedIn profile in our show notes or on martechpod.com or you could visit his company's website, which is webflow.com and if you haven't subscribed yet, and you want a daily stream of marketing and technology knowledge in your podcast feed, hit the subscribe button in your podcast app or Visit us on YouTube where we'll be back in your feed next week. All right, that's it for today, but until next time, my advice is to just focus on keeping your customers happy.

[Podcast Host]

Thanks for listening to the Martech podcast and I hear everything. Production Looking to launch or scale a podcast like this one for your brand? Then visit iheareverything. Com.