MarTech Podcast™ // Marketing + Technology = Business Growth
Episode: The Crisis Killing Your Creator Marketing ROI
Host: Benjamin Shapiro
Guest: Joe Pirello, CEO and Co-Founder of Props
Release Date: July 19, 2025

Introduction

In this episode of the MarTech Podcast™, host Benjamin Shapiro engages in a compelling discussion with Joe Pirello, the CEO and Co-Founder of Props. The conversation delves into the challenges and strategies surrounding creator marketing, specifically focusing on why brand-owned content represents the new frontier for marketers seeking reliable and predictable outcomes.

The Challenge of Scaling Creator Content in B2B

Timestamp [01:15]

Benjamin Shapiro kicks off the conversation by introducing Joe Pirello and setting the stage for a deep dive into the intricacies of blending creator content with performance marketing. The central question posed by Shapiro is:

Benjamin Shapiro: "What breaks first when B2B companies try to scale their creator content efforts?"
(01:15)

Joe Pirello: "Definitely the art and science of curating, vetting and organizing and managing creators. If you're doing it in the influencer model, that is enormously difficult, especially since if you're in the B2B space, you're likely a specialty and you need specialized creators who are even more credible than consumer brands might need. So the art and science of curating creators is paramount. That absolutely breaks first in the B2B space."
(01:40)

Joe highlights the complexity B2B companies face when attempting to scale their creator initiatives. The specialized nature of B2B markets necessitates creators who are not only experts in their fields but also carry significant credibility—requirements that make the influencer model particularly challenging to sustain at scale.

Rethinking Scale: Scaling Creators vs. Scaling the Number of Creators

Timestamp [02:13]

Shapiro challenges the traditional notion of scaling by volume, suggesting a paradigm shift in how marketers approach creator partnerships:

Benjamin Shapiro:
(02:13)
"It's funny because it assumes that you need lots of scale. It's hard to find creators as you scale and that means, oh, I need to go find a bunch of people that are subject matter experts. And my thought is that's actually really overrated. Where brands are trying to go and they're saying, well, we found one creator, let's go find 10 more that are just like him or her, and then we can have lots of different voices. I think one of the things that marketers don't think about when they're thinking about their creative campaigns is either A getting more out of the creators that you have, right, having deeper relationships, or B moving that content from channel to channel and right, sizing what the creator is saying. So if you have A creator that has a great podcast following and you want to find somebody on YouTube, you can either go find somebody on YouTube and hope that they are as credible and as interesting and know your brand, or you can help that creator make the migration and help them cultivate their audience and channels in other platforms. So I feel like the scaling creators, that's what lots of marketers say is a challenge. And I don't understand why marketers are so focused on scaling the creators, like by volume of creators instead of actually scaling the creator, getting that one person you're working with to expand."
(02:13 - 03:26)

Shapiro emphasizes the importance of deepening existing creator relationships rather than merely increasing the number of creators. He advocates for leveraging a creator's potential across multiple platforms, thereby maximizing the impact of each partnership.

Props' Solution: Scaling the Creator, Not the Creators

Timestamp [03:26]

Joe Pirello introduces Props' strategic approach to addressing the scaling challenge:

Joe Pirello:
(03:26)
"I mean, the easy way to do that is just to use Props."

Benjamin Shapiro:
(03:29)
"There it is."

Joe Pirello:
(03:30)
"You asked me a question early on and I didn't answer it for you. It was, is the content, like a lost leader that's related to this question? The answer is not really. But we're a media company and the cost of content is maybe 10% of our engagements with our clients because of what you just said, which is we're not in the business of getting 150 creators for a brand. We're in the business of getting maybe 10 and putting a million or two or $3 million media behind that to do. What you just said is scale the creator, not the creators."

(03:26 - 04:08)

Joe elucidates that Props focuses on a select group of creators, investing significantly in each to amplify their reach and effectiveness. By concentrating resources on fewer, high-impact creators, Props ensures that each partnership delivers substantial ROI, rather than spreading efforts thin across numerous influencers.

Key Insights and Strategies

1. Curating Specialized Creators:
   The B2B landscape requires creators who are not only knowledgeable but also carry authority and credibility in their respective niches. Proper vetting and management of these specialized creators are essential for successful scaling.

2. Deepening Creator Relationships:
   Instead of increasing the number of creators, brands should focus on building stronger, long-term relationships with existing creators. This involves enabling creators to expand their presence across different platforms, thereby maximizing their influence and reach.

3. Investment in High-Quality Content:
   Allocating substantial media budgets to a smaller group of creators can lead to more impactful and measurable results. This approach contrasts with the traditional model of engaging large numbers of creators with limited individual investment.

Conclusion

Timestamp [04:08 - 05:45]

Benjamin Shapiro wraps up the conversation by reiterating the value Props brings to the table and emphasizing the shift from traditional advertising to story-driven content marketing:

Benjamin Shapiro:
(04:08)
"I like it. Scale the creator, not the creatives. Joe, I appreciate you coming on the podcast. I think Props is doing some really fascinating things and I love the thesis that people aren't responding to ads, they respond to stories, and that there is a way that you can use your stories to drive business results, not just off platform, but on platform as well. Tell everybody where they can find you, how they can get in touch with you."
(04:08 - 04:31)

Joe Pirello:
(04:31 - 04:44)
"Yeah, we're in New York City, 25th and Broadway. You can reach us on Props Co. You can always email me at [email protected] And Ben, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it."

Benjamin Shapiro:
(04:44 - 05:45)
"And that wraps up this episode of the Martech podcast. Thanks for listening to my conversation with Joe Pirello, the CEO and co-founder of Props. If you'd like to contact Joe, you could find the link to his LinkedIn profile in our show notes or you can visit martechpod.com you can also find his company's website at Props Co. That's P R O P S Co. And if you haven't subscribed yet and you want a daily stream of marketing and technology knowledge in your podcast feed, hit the subscribe button in your podcast app and we'll be back in your feed or on YouTube every week. All right, that's it for today. But until next time, my advice is to just focus on keeping your customers happy."
(04:44 - 05:45)

Notable Quotes

• Joe Pirello:
  "We're not in the business of getting 150 creators for a brand. We're in the business of getting maybe 10 and putting a million or two or $3 million media behind that to do."
  (03:30)

• Benjamin Shapiro:
  "Scale the creator, not the creatives."
  (04:08)

• Joe Pirello:
  "People aren't responding to ads, they respond to stories."
  (04:31)

Final Thoughts

This episode underscores the evolving dynamics of creator marketing, especially within the B2B sector. By prioritizing quality over quantity and fostering deeper relationships with a select group of creators, brands can achieve more predictable and substantial business growth. Props exemplifies this approach, demonstrating how strategic investment and platform diversification can enhance the effectiveness of creator partnerships.

For more insights and to connect with Joe Pirello, listeners are encouraged to visit Props Co. or reach out via email. Stay tuned to the MarTech Podcast™ for more expert conversations at the intersection of marketing and technology.

Connect with Props Co.:

• Website: Props Co.
• Email: joseph@propsco.com
• Location: New York City, 25th and Broadway

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