The number one thing marketers do that drives sales teams absolutely crazy

Summary

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MarTech Podcast™ – Summary

Episode: The number one thing marketers do that drives sales teams absolutely crazy
Date: September 2, 2025
Host: Benjamin Shapiro
Guest: Kelly Hopping (CMO, Demandbase)
Theme: Revealing the key missteps marketers make that frustrate sales teams, plus actionable advice for improving sales and marketing alignment.

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Episode Overview

This episode zeroes in on one of the most persistent sources of friction between marketing and sales: the hyper-focus on "leads" by marketers and why that often drives sales professionals "absolutely crazy." Host Benjamin Shapiro tackles the root causes with guest Kelly Hopping, CMO of Demandbase, who provides candid insights and practical steps for achieving true sales-marketing alignment that drives measurable business growth.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Number One Frustration: “Talking About Leads”

• [01:36] Benjamin Shapiro kicks off the lightning round by asking, "What is the number one thing marketers do that drives sales absolutely crazy?"
• [01:42] Kelly Hopping immediately answers:

  “Talk about leads.”
  (Kelly Hopping, 01:42)

Why Leads Are a Thorn for Sales

• Marketing tends to focus on the volume of leads without accounting for quality or sales-readiness.
• Sales teams see "leads" as a generic, often unhelpful metric—just a number, not an actionable opportunity.
• [01:44-01:52] Kelly elaborates:

  “If marketing’s primary goal is leads, then sales is like, you can buy lead lists, you can get leads from anywhere and they’re a total crap.”
  (Kelly Hopping, 01:52)

2. Defining a Qualified Pipeline

• Sales teams care about deals that are truly sales-ready:
  • Right time
  • Right buyer
  • Right message
  • Real business need
  • Defined budget and actual appetite to buy
• Random leads don’t matter until they convert further down the funnel into qualified pipeline—opportunities sales can actually work with.
• [02:02] Kelly highlights:

  “They want qualified pipeline that actually has the right time, the right buyer, the right message, the right needs, the right use case... So we talk about leads, it’s basically a shorthand for sales being like, oh, good job getting leads. It’d be great if you could finish doing your job to get it to a place where we could actually work it.”
  (Kelly Hopping, 02:02–02:19)

3. The Mismatch in Metrics

• [02:30] Benjamin pokes fun at vanity metrics and sales' lack of patience for them:

  “Congratulations, you got website visitors. Whoop dee doo.” (Benjamin Shapiro, 02:30)

• Kelly echoes this sentiment:

  “Yes, I was about to say like, but we had 3 million impressions on our website. They’re like, oh, congratulations. It doesn’t do me any good. I need pipeline.”
  (Kelly Hopping, 02:40)

4. Acknowledging the Pipeline Process

• Benjamin tries to mediate:

  "All right, sales, relax. We’re getting there. The leads will mature. Just trust us on this one."
  (Benjamin Shapiro, 02:48)

• Kelly agrees, underscoring the sequential nature of marketing and sales collaboration:

  “That’s right, they're coming.” (Kelly Hopping, 02:53)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [01:42] Kelly Hopping: “Talk about leads.”
• [01:52] Kelly Hopping: “If marketing’s primary goal is leads... you can buy lead lists, you can get leads from anywhere and they’re a total crap.”
• [02:02–02:19] Kelly Hopping: “They want qualified pipeline... when you start talking about leads, they sort of roll their eyes until you get down funnel the pipeline. And then they’re like, okay, now I’m listening.”
• [02:30] Benjamin Shapiro: “Congratulations, you got website visitors. Whoop dee doo.”
• [02:40] Kelly Hopping: “But we had 3 million impressions on our website. They’re like, oh, congratulations. It doesn’t do me any good. I need pipeline.”

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Actionable Takeaways

• Focus on the pipeline, not just lead volume: Marketers should prioritize moving leads further down the funnel, enriching them until they’re truly ready for the sales team.
• Align on definitions and goals: Both teams need a shared understanding of what constitutes a qualified opportunity, not just a “lead.”
• Vanity metrics don’t close deals: Impressions, visitors, and basic leads might look good on paper, but sales wants pipeline and revenue-generating opportunities.

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:36] – The key question: What drives sales crazy about marketing?
• [01:42-02:19] – Why leads are meaningless unless qualified; sales' real needs.
• [02:30-02:53] – The disconnect on vanity metrics, the promise of maturing leads, and playfully acknowledging the process.

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Episode Tone & Style

The conversation is direct, candid, and laced with playful jabs at cross-departmental stereotypes. Both Benjamin and Kelly maintain a conversational and insightful tone, making the episode engaging for marketers and sales professionals alike.

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Transcript

[A]

The Martech Podcast is a proud member of the I Hear Everything Podcast network. Looking to launch or scale your podcast, I Hear Everything delivers podcast production, growth and monetization solutions that transform your words into profit. Ready to give your brand a voice? Then visit iheareverything.com.

[B]

From advertising to software as a service to data, across all of our programs and clients, we've seen a 55 to 65% open rate. Getting brands authentically integrated into content performs better than TV advertising. Typical life span of an article is about 24 to 36 hours. We're reaching out to the right person with the right message and a clear call to action. Then it's just a matter of timing.

[A]

Welcome to the Martech Podcast, a member of the I Hear Everything Podcast network. In this podcast, you'll hear the stories of world class marketers that use technology to drive business results and achieve career success. Here's the host of the Martech podcast, Benjamin Shapiro.

[B]

I'm Benjamin Shapiro and joining me today is Kelly Hopping, the CMO of Demandbase. And today Kelly will reveal the secrets to creating sales and marketing alignment that drives measurable growth. All right, I want to move on to our lightning round where I'm going to ask you a couple of Martech related questions specifically around our weekly topic, which is marketing and sales alignment. Are you ready?

[C]

I'm ready.

[B]

All right. What is the number one thing marketers do that drives sales? Absolutely crazy.

[C]

Talk about leads.

[B]

Leads?

[C]

Yeah, they don't care about leads.

[B]

It's not the fistfight of we did our job and you did yours. It's just, hey, the leads. And this is what matterwise, leads. Such a thorn in the side for sales.

[C]

If marketing's primary goal is leads, then sales is like, you can buy lead lists, you can get leads from anywhere and they're a total crap.

[B]

Right?

[C]

They want qualified pipeline that actually has the right time, the right buyer, the right message, the right needs, the right use case. They have a budget and an appetite to buy. Like, they have to be fully qualified. So we talk about leads. It's basically a shorthand for sales being like, oh, good job getting leads. It'd be great if you could finish doing your job to get it to a place where we could actually work it. So I think it's probably the same argument, but when you start talking about leads, they sort of roll their eyes until you get down funnel the pipeline. And then they're like, okay, now I'm listening.

[B]

It's basically the leading indicator that they're like, I don't care until I see that it has converted into something I can sell to. Congratulations, you got website visitors. Whoop dee doo.

[C]

Yes, I was about to say like, but we had 3 million impressions on our website. They're like, oh, congratulations. It doesn't do me any good. I need pipeline.

[B]

All right, sales, relax. We're getting there. The leads will mature. Just trust us on this one.

[C]

That's right, they're coming.

[B]

And that wraps up this episode of the Martech Podcast. Thanks to Kelly, hopping CMO of Demand base for joining us. If you'd like to contact Kelly, you can find a link to her LinkedIn profile in our show notes or on martechpod.com, you can visit her company's website, which is demandbase.com she's also the host of the next gen CMO podcast and the co author of the book yes, it's your fault. And if you haven't subscribed yet and you want a daily stream of marketing and technology knowledge in your podcast feed, hit the subscribe button in your podcast app or on YouTube and we'll be back in your feed next week. That's it for today, but until next time, my advice is to just focus on keeping your customers happy.

[C]

Foreign.

[A]

Thanks for listening to the Martech Podcast and I hear everything. Production Looking to launch or scale a podcast like this one for your brand? Then visit iheareverything.com.