MarTech Podcast™ – Summary

Episode: The number one thing marketers do that drives sales teams absolutely crazy
Date: September 2, 2025
Host: Benjamin Shapiro
Guest: Kelly Hopping (CMO, Demandbase)
Theme: Revealing the key missteps marketers make that frustrate sales teams, plus actionable advice for improving sales and marketing alignment.

Episode Overview

This episode zeroes in on one of the most persistent sources of friction between marketing and sales: the hyper-focus on "leads" by marketers and why that often drives sales professionals "absolutely crazy." Host Benjamin Shapiro tackles the root causes with guest Kelly Hopping, CMO of Demandbase, who provides candid insights and practical steps for achieving true sales-marketing alignment that drives measurable business growth.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Number One Frustration: “Talking About Leads”

• [01:36] Benjamin Shapiro kicks off the lightning round by asking, "What is the number one thing marketers do that drives sales absolutely crazy?"
• [01:42] Kelly Hopping immediately answers:

  “Talk about leads.”
  (Kelly Hopping, 01:42)

Why Leads Are a Thorn for Sales

• Marketing tends to focus on the volume of leads without accounting for quality or sales-readiness.
• Sales teams see "leads" as a generic, often unhelpful metric—just a number, not an actionable opportunity.
• [01:44-01:52] Kelly elaborates:

  “If marketing’s primary goal is leads, then sales is like, you can buy lead lists, you can get leads from anywhere and they’re a total crap.”
  (Kelly Hopping, 01:52)

2. Defining a Qualified Pipeline

• Sales teams care about deals that are truly sales-ready:
  • Right time
  • Right buyer
  • Right message
  • Real business need
  • Defined budget and actual appetite to buy
• Random leads don’t matter until they convert further down the funnel into qualified pipeline—opportunities sales can actually work with.
• [02:02] Kelly highlights:

  “They want qualified pipeline that actually has the right time, the right buyer, the right message, the right needs, the right use case... So we talk about leads, it’s basically a shorthand for sales being like, oh, good job getting leads. It’d be great if you could finish doing your job to get it to a place where we could actually work it.”
  (Kelly Hopping, 02:02–02:19)

3. The Mismatch in Metrics

• [02:30] Benjamin pokes fun at vanity metrics and sales' lack of patience for them:

  “Congratulations, you got website visitors. Whoop dee doo.” (Benjamin Shapiro, 02:30)

• Kelly echoes this sentiment:

  “Yes, I was about to say like, but we had 3 million impressions on our website. They’re like, oh, congratulations. It doesn’t do me any good. I need pipeline.”
  (Kelly Hopping, 02:40)

4. Acknowledging the Pipeline Process

• Benjamin tries to mediate:

  "All right, sales, relax. We’re getting there. The leads will mature. Just trust us on this one."
  (Benjamin Shapiro, 02:48)

• Kelly agrees, underscoring the sequential nature of marketing and sales collaboration:

  “That’s right, they're coming.” (Kelly Hopping, 02:53)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [01:42] Kelly Hopping: “Talk about leads.”
• [01:52] Kelly Hopping: “If marketing’s primary goal is leads... you can buy lead lists, you can get leads from anywhere and they’re a total crap.”
• [02:02–02:19] Kelly Hopping: “They want qualified pipeline... when you start talking about leads, they sort of roll their eyes until you get down funnel the pipeline. And then they’re like, okay, now I’m listening.”
• [02:30] Benjamin Shapiro: “Congratulations, you got website visitors. Whoop dee doo.”
• [02:40] Kelly Hopping: “But we had 3 million impressions on our website. They’re like, oh, congratulations. It doesn’t do me any good. I need pipeline.”

Actionable Takeaways

• Focus on the pipeline, not just lead volume: Marketers should prioritize moving leads further down the funnel, enriching them until they’re truly ready for the sales team.
• Align on definitions and goals: Both teams need a shared understanding of what constitutes a qualified opportunity, not just a “lead.”
• Vanity metrics don’t close deals: Impressions, visitors, and basic leads might look good on paper, but sales wants pipeline and revenue-generating opportunities.

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:36] – The key question: What drives sales crazy about marketing?
• [01:42-02:19] – Why leads are meaningless unless qualified; sales' real needs.
• [02:30-02:53] – The disconnect on vanity metrics, the promise of maturing leads, and playfully acknowledging the process.

Episode Tone & Style

The conversation is direct, candid, and laced with playful jabs at cross-departmental stereotypes. Both Benjamin and Kelly maintain a conversational and insightful tone, making the episode engaging for marketers and sales professionals alike.