MarTech Podcast ™ Episode Summary

Title: Thinking Beyond the Old Way of “Bean Counting” Measurement
Release Date: April 14, 2025
Host: Benjamin Shapiro
Guest: Christian Ashlock, Senior Director of Product Marketing at Branch

Introduction

In this insightful episode of the MarTech Podcast™, host Benjamin Shapiro engages with Christian Ashlock, the Senior Director of Product Marketing at Branch, to delve into the evolving landscape of marketing measurement. The conversation centers around moving away from traditional "bean counting" methods towards more holistic and forward-thinking measurement strategies that align with current data privacy trends and technological advancements.

The Evolution of Marketing Measurement

Christian Ashlock begins by reflecting on the simplicity of digital marketing's early days, where deterministic methods using device identifiers or third-party cookies allowed marketers to track user behaviors seamlessly. However, with increasing privacy regulations and platform changes, these traditional methods are becoming obsolete.

Notable Quote:

"There’s a lot of folks that have been doing this for a while in a lot of companies, they built up all their tools, their processes, their training, kind of relying on that old way of measurement." — Christian Ashlock (02:32)

Impact of Data Deprecation and Privacy Regulations

Benjamin Shapiro highlights the impending deprecation of third-party cookies and the broader implications for data access and measurement accuracy. He emphasizes the challenge of capturing the full spectrum of marketing efforts, especially those that influence brand perception and conversions but remain invisible to traditional analytics models.

Notable Quote:

"To me, there's kind of two fundamental shifts here. It's your access to data and it's figuring out whether you're measuring the right things." — Benjamin Shapiro (04:31)

Christian agrees, indicating that the elimination of third-party cookies is not a singular event but a gradual trend influenced by user consent and privacy considerations.

Notable Quote:

"If users aren't aware and have opted in to the data you're collecting on them, you're just not going to have it. And that's increasingly going away." — Christian Ashlock (04:38)

Strategies for Modern Measurement

Christian outlines a three-pronged approach to contemporary marketing measurement:

1. Tactical Measurement: Ensuring real-time marketing tactics are effective, such as audience targeting and bid strategies, largely managed by Martech and adtech solutions.
2. Campaign Optimization: Making day-to-day decisions on budget allocation and creative adjustments based on campaign performance.
3. Strategic Planning and Budgeting: Focusing on long-term brand building and cross-channel performance evaluation using advanced methodologies like Marketing Mix Modeling (MMM).

Notable Quote:

"There's a way that I find it helpful to break it down into three things... tactical measurement, campaign optimization, and strategic planning." — Christian Ashlock (08:00)

Balancing Immediate Results with Long-Term Branding

Benjamin reflects on the shift from broad, memorable marketing tactics of the past to today's data-driven precision, cautioning against the overemphasis on immediate results at the expense of long-term brand building.

Notable Quote:

"It's not always about your marketing and measurement. Some part of marketing is measuring based on what you think is working and using the signals you can get as normalized as you can get them to give you a sense of what direction to head." — Benjamin Shapiro (16:20)

Christian emphasizes the importance of aligning measurement strategies with the buyer's journey and the nature of each marketing channel. For instance, upper-funnel activities like brand awareness campaigns require different measurement timelines compared to bottom-funnel tactics like search advertising.

Notable Quote:

"You have to think about both the effectiveness of the channel and the action you're trying to drive." — Christian Ashlock (10:41)

The Future of Analytics and Measurement Tooling

The discussion transitions to the necessity for advanced analytics tools that can integrate diverse data sources into a unified framework. Christian advocates for flexible, ROI-focused tools that can handle varied data inputs and provide actionable insights without requiring marketers to manage the underlying complexity.

Notable Quote:

"The best tools that marketers are going to have to understand their marketing are going to be able to combine a couple of different data sources together and then present them in flexible ways that you can kind of poke at the data to get the insights you need." — Christian Ashlock (12:21)

Benjamin likens the challenge of integrating disparate data sources to a multilingual bus stop, underscoring the importance of a common framework for data to ensure meaningful interpretation and effective decision-making.

Notable Quote:

"It's like being at a public bus stop in Switzerland where someone might be talking German, Swiss, German, Italian, Spanish, French, English... you all have to be able to communicate into some sort of common language to operate." — Benjamin Shapiro (13:49)

Christian concurs, highlighting the need for tools that abstract complexity and focus on business outcomes, enabling marketers to drive towards their goals without getting bogged down by technical intricacies.

Balancing Art and Science in Marketing

As the conversation wraps up, Benjamin and Christian reflect on the dual nature of marketing—as both an art and a science. They acknowledge the indispensable role of creativity and intuition alongside data-driven strategies, advocating for a balanced approach that leverages both precise measurements and human insight.

Notable Quote:

"It is not always about your marketing and measurement. Some part of marketing is measuring based on what you think is working and using the signals you can get as normalized as you can get them to give you a sense of what direction to head." — Benjamin Shapiro (16:20)

Conclusion and Teasers for Future Episodes

The episode concludes with Benjamin thanking Christian for his valuable insights and teasing the next episode, which will continue the discussion on optimizing organic marketing channels. Listeners are encouraged to visit the podcast’s website for episode summaries, guest information, and to subscribe for daily updates on marketing and technology trends.

Key Takeaways

• Adaptation to Privacy Changes: Marketers must move beyond traditional measurement tools reliant on third-party cookies, embracing strategies that prioritize user consent and privacy.
• Holistic Measurement Approach: Combining tactical, optimization, and strategic planning measurements ensures both immediate and long-term marketing success.
• Advanced Tooling Needs: The future of marketing measurement lies in sophisticated analytics tools capable of integrating diverse data sources into a unified, actionable framework.
• Balancing Creativity and Data: Effective marketing requires a synergy of data-driven precision and creative intuition, ensuring strategies are both measurable and resonant.

Further Information

• Guest Profile: Christian Ashlock on LinkedIn
• Branch Website: branch.io
• Podcast Resources: Visit martechpod.com for episode summaries and contact information.
• Subscribe: Follow MarTech Podcast™ on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook for updates and more.

This summary provides a comprehensive overview of the discussed topics, capturing the essence of the conversation and key insights shared by both Benjamin Shapiro and Christian Ashlock. For a deeper dive, listening to the full episode is recommended.