What Are Best Practices For Updating A Wikipedia Page About You?

Summary

MarTech Podcast ™ // Episode Summary: "What Are Best Practices For Updating A Wikipedia Page About You?"

Release Date: November 23, 2024
Hosted by: Doug Bell, CMO of Chief Outsiders
Guest: William Buhler, President of Buhler, Inc.

---

Introduction

In this insightful episode of the MarTech Podcast, guest host Doug Bell, Chief Marketing Officer at Chief Outsiders, teams up with William Buhler, President of Buhler, Inc., a creative PR agency specializing in enhancing brand visibility through platforms like Wikipedia. The episode delves into the best practices for updating a Wikipedia page about your business, emphasizing the importance of adherence to Wikipedia's stringent guidelines to maintain a credible and lasting presence.

The Challenges of Maintaining a Wikipedia Page

Doug Bell opens the discussion by reflecting on the complexities of not just creating but also maintaining a Wikipedia page. He underscores the necessity of ongoing updates to ensure the page remains relevant and complies with community standards. Bell articulates a common dilemma faced by businesses: "So if we're not maintaining that page in a useful way, then I think we're going to talk about community guidelines and getting flagged and how to update the page quite a bit here." (03:12)

Understanding Wikipedia's Guidelines

William Buhler draws an analogy between managing a Wikipedia page and playing a strategic game, highlighting the platform's nuanced and often unforgiving nature. He states, "Wikipedia is similar to a strategy game... you can read the rules, but actually knowing what to do. There's so many invisible tripwires." (03:18). This comparison underscores the importance of understanding Wikipedia's policies thoroughly before attempting to edit or update a page.

Buhler emphasizes that Wikipedia maintains strict conflict of interest policies to prevent biased edits, especially from those directly associated with the subject of the page. He advises against self-editing, noting, "Wikipedia is very much a community that counts on volunteer editors to maintain the integrity of the content." (05:00). Instead, he recommends engaging professional consultants who are well-versed in navigating these guidelines effectively.

The Role of Professional Consultants

The conversation highlights the benefits of hiring experts like Buhler's firm to manage Wikipedia pages. Buhler explains, "It is really hard for somebody to come in and just get it right the first time... So let's say you are a company with a communications team. If you can task one employee with reading up on everything and immersing themselves in Wikipedia, then maybe that could work. On the other hand, if you're like most companies, maybe you don't have a whole team, then you probably do want to find a consultant to help you create the page in the first place." (04:00)

This professional assistance ensures that the page complies with Wikipedia's standards and reduces the risk of inadvertent violations that could lead to the page being flagged or removed.

Common Pitfalls and Misconceptions

Doug Bell challenges some conventional advice regarding page maintenance, questioning the effectiveness of building a profile as an editor before attempting to update one's own page. He humorously reflects on his own misguided advice: "Spend several weeks, because this is volunteer work on Wikipedia, right? Spend several weeks editing multiple articles, build a profile as an editor... I've already decided this is bad advice based on what I'm hearing from you." (05:48)

Buhler concurs, asserting that such strategies are not only ineffective but can also lead to negative repercussions. He warns against the temptation to perform minor edits to gain credibility, stating, "Wikipedia editors are really good who have heard is somebody saying build up a profile so that when you go edit your page, nobody notices they're going to pick up on that. So yes, bad advice." (06:13)

Balancing SEO Objectives with Wikipedia's Mission

The episode also touches upon the intersection of SEO strategies and Wikipedia's non-commercial ethos. Buhler notes that while Wikipedia is a highly visible platform, its "no follow" links mean it doesn't directly contribute to SEO rankings. Nonetheless, being featured on Wikipedia can significantly enhance a brand's legitimacy and visibility.

However, he cautions against conflating SEO objectives with Wikipedia's goals: "Wikipedia does throw up certain roadblocks that are not compatible with the purest aims and ambitions of an SEO." (10:22). This highlights the importance of aligning Wikipedia page management with ethical practices rather than purely tactical SEO gains.

Best Practices for Updating Your Wikipedia Page

When it comes to updating a Wikipedia page, Buhler offers the following best practices:

1. Be Judicious with Updates: Avoid frequent minor edits that can overwhelm or annoy Wikipedia editors. Instead, focus on substantial updates that reflect significant changes or achievements. Buhler suggests limiting updates to "once a quarter or twice a year," depending on the company's activity level. (07:34)

2. Understand Community Standards: Familiarize yourself with Wikipedia's culture and editing norms to ensure that updates are made respectfully and in line with community expectations.

3. Engage Professional Help: Given the complexities involved, hiring a consultant experienced in Wikipedia policies can streamline the process and prevent common pitfalls.

4. Focus on Neutrality: Ensure that all updates are presented in a neutral tone, free from promotional language or biased perspectives, to maintain the page's integrity.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with affirmations of the critical role Wikipedia plays in establishing online legitimacy. Doug Bell emphasizes, "It really is the holy grail, if you will, of online legitimacy." (13:01) Both hosts reiterate the value of professional assistance in navigating Wikipedia's intricate landscape, ensuring that businesses can maintain a credible and enduring presence on one of the world's most visited information platforms.

William Buhler wraps up by encouraging listeners to visit Buhler Inc.'s website for more insights and underscores his passion for discussing Wikipedia's inner workings, concluding, "I've been behind the scenes for decades at this point. I have the war stories. I love telling them." (12:15)

---

Key Takeaways

• Professional Expertise is Crucial: Navigating Wikipedia's guidelines is complex, and hiring experienced consultants can ensure compliance and effective page management.

• Respect Community Norms: Understanding and adhering to Wikipedia's cultural and editorial standards is essential for maintaining a stable and reputable page.

• Strategic Updates Over Frequent Edits: Focus on meaningful updates rather than minor tweaks to respect the time and efforts of volunteer editors.

• Balance SEO with Ethical Practices: While Wikipedia enhances visibility, it should not be manipulated solely for SEO benefits. Ethical engagement aligns with Wikipedia's mission and ensures long-term success.

---

This episode serves as a comprehensive guide for businesses seeking to establish and maintain their presence on Wikipedia, offering practical advice and highlighting the importance of ethical and strategic engagement with the platform.

Transcript

[Benjamin Shapiro]

The Martech Podcast is a proud member of the iHear Everything Podcast Network. Looking to launch or scale your podcast, iHear everything delivers podcast production, growth and monetization solutions that transform your words into profit. Ready to give your brand a voice? Then visit iheareverything.com.

[Doug Bell]

From advertising to software as a service to data across all of our programs and clients, we've seen a 55 to 65% open rate. Getting brands authentically integrated into content performs better than TV advertising.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

Typical life span of an article is.

[Doug Bell]

About 24 to 36 hours. If we're reaching out to the right person with the right message and a clear call to action, then it's just a matter of timing.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

Welcome to the Martech Podcast, a member of the I Hear Everything Podcast Network. In this podcast, you'll hear the stories of world class marketers that use technology to drive business results and achieve career success. Here's the host of the Martech Podcast, Benjamin Shapiro.

Welcome to the Martech Podcast I'm Benjamin Shapiro, the Executive Producer of the Martech Podcast and today we've got a special episode for you which is going to be guest hosted by Doug Bell, who's the CMO of Chief Outsiders. Doug is a veteran CMO with a background in helping growth stage B2B SaaS. Companies reach their true potential and I'm thrilled to invite him, him and some of his friends to take the microphone and share their knowledge with you, our loyal Martech Podcast listeners. Okay, here's a special episode of the Martech Podcast guest hosted by Doug Bell, the CMO of Chief Outsiders.

[Doug Bell]

Hello marketers, My name is Doug Bell from Chief Outsiders. Joining me today is William Buhtler, who is the President of Buhler, Inc. Which is a creative PR agency that provides innovative solutions for brand visibility in the digital landscape, focusing on bolstering online profiles by improving information on Wikipedia media and creating engaging content.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

But before we get to today's interview, I want to tell you about what I'm listening to. Ever wanted to sit down to a candid conversation with marketing leaders from the world's biggest brands? The Current Podcast is your chance. On the Current Podcast you'll find exclusive interviews with the experts and trendsetters who are on the front lines of digital advertising, and they always leave the ad tech jargon at the door. So subscribe to the [e-mail] or anywhere you get your podcast podcasts today.

[Doug Bell]

Yesterday William and I talked about what the requirements are to get your own page on Wikipedia. And today we're going to be talking about. What are the best practices for updating a Wikipedia page once you've got it? Okay, here's my conversation with William Butler, the president at Butler Enterprises. I learned so much yesterday, William, thank you for the time. You also depressed me deeply because you talked about the four or five things to not do to get a Wikipedia page up, which I did. So thank you. I took my spoonful of humble pie yesterday. Or forkful, I should say.

[William Buhler]

Amazing.

[Doug Bell]

But here we are. Now we're in this glorious place where we have a page, right? We've got something published. It doesn't mean it's going to stay out there, right? So if we're not maintaining that page in a useful way, then I think we're going to talk about community guidelines and getting flagged and how to update the page quite a bit here. But if we're not careful, that asset we work so hard to develop either is not going to be as useful as it was before, or we're going to lose it entirely. So we've gotten to the point that we published. Do you recommend people maintain their own pages, or are you recommending that, frankly, they get help in terms of maintaining them? Because yesterday you talked about, like, don't write your own page. If you can matriculate to having a page, don't write your own page. Same thing for updating the page.

[William Buhler]

The thing is, Wikipedia is similar to a strategy game. I don't know if it's like Othello, one of these games they advertise on TV back in the 80s minutes to learn, a lifetime to master. Wikipedia is very much like that. You can read the rules, but actually knowing what to do. There's so many invisible tripwires. That is why my firm exists. That's why there is a small industry of Wikipedia consultants, some better than others. That's a whole other topic. But it is really hard for somebody to come in and just get it right the first time. So let's say you are a company with a communications team. If you can task one employee with reading up on everything and immersing themselves in Wikipedia, then maybe that could work. On the other hand, if you're like most companies, maybe you don't have a whole team, then you probably do want to find a consultant to help you create the page in the first place. We didn't talk about the whole process of getting an article submitted, getting it reviewed. That's a difficult thing to do, best handled by somebody who's done it before. Same thing goes with you can monitor the page on your own. There are different ways to kind of keep tabs on an article, but when it comes time to make changes to an article, it really helps to understand Wikipedia's conflict of interest guideline. The fact that there is a set of rules that is designed to frankly discourage you from just going in and making direct edits yourself. And then on top of that, there is a process that is set up designed to help you ask the community questions to propose changes for Wikipedia volunteers to make. Because they are afraid that someone who works for a communications team or a marketer will just go in and add fluff. They would like to be the filter for those requests. And then the Wikipedia volunteers who do not have a financial interest in the reputation of the topic to be the ones to choose which words go on the page. So like I say, it is not easy. Wikipedia's rules are challenging. And then the editors are skeptical of outsiders. So yes, I do recommend looking for someone like my firm to help remove all the guesswork.

[Doug Bell]

Okay, I'm going to give you some advice that I now realize was bad and ask you to comment on it with regard to maintaining a pitch. So here's the advice ready? Spend several weeks, because this is volunteer work on Wikipedia, right? Spend several weeks editing multiple articles, build a profile as an editor. Therefore, when you edit your own piece, people will be okay with it. I've already decided this is bad advice based on what I'm hearing from you. Is that right?

[William Buhler]

So this is classic advice that you would get from one of the consultants that I would strongly advise against hiring. Like I say, Wikipedia very much does not want you to edit your own company's page or your own page. That's probably going to get you burned after a certain point. Maybe you can make one or a couple of edits without anybody catching on. But Wikipedia editors are really good who have heard is somebody saying build up a profile so that when you go edit your page, nobody notices they're going to pick up on that. So yes, bad advice.

[Doug Bell]

It makes sense. Again, it's a community and I think we forget these are people that they're not getting paid for this. And there's I used to play Dungeons and Dragons and at some point I discovered other things, right? But I recall the hardcore, like the 46 year old guy playing with a 13 year old. I was a 13 year old. And you're like, whoa, there's a whole other level to this, right? There's a passion about it. There's community that has a passion about it.

[William Buhler]

The analogy is A great analogy, honestly. I also like to liken Wikipedia to knitting. It's a repetitive, soothing activity that one can do. I guess. D and D, you need someone else to do that with. But also, Wikipedia editors tend to be both older than the average population and younger than the average population. So it's like students and retirees who are most active, and then people who are building their careers and raising kids in their 30s and 40s are less represented among Wikipedia editors. Just a fascinating detail that's really good.

[Doug Bell]

To know as we're thinking about maintaining pages. So we've got to ask William, there's a bunch of great advice here. When should I update the page? Should I just leave it? We got it published. Don't touch anything. Don't ruin it. When should I update the page?

[William Buhler]

Be judicious. We work with both very large companies and we work with smaller companies. And the very large companies will make news a lot more often, especially if they're public. They'll have quarterly reports. They'll release new products. In many industries, in technology and communications, there are trade publications that are well known that are writing about companies a lot. If you have a smaller company that is not in the news very often, look, if you're never in the news, then, you know, don't update it. But if you have an article already, you probably are. The thing to do really is you don't want to bother editors too much. You don't want to be seen as needy. I suppose there have been times in the past where we have recommended not updating a page more than once a quarter or twice a year. It can't necessarily be a hard and fast rule, but it's sort of a sliding scale of like, how far out of date is this page falling before you want to propose an update, but also not coming back and adding every teeny tiny little thing. Like you are meticulously trimming this hedge. You don't want to be seen as.

[Doug Bell]

A time suck for the editors. Again, back to this idea of community. You're sort of entering a new world, if you will, and you don't know the culture, you don't know the language, so you need to be respectful.

[William Buhler]

That's correct.

[Doug Bell]

So if you are constantly updating the article because I'm a little ocd, I'll admit, William, and be like, you know what? We just had this thing happen. I want to. It's like, just. Just chill out. Just chill out. I gotta ask. This was an SEO tactic for a long time, and I mentioned this yesterday, like, some of the benefits quite often are seen through the lens of SEO. Do you get a lot of folks that are approaching these pages from an SEO standpoint or is it usually much more about other goals and other things?

[William Buhler]

I'd say the vast majority of projects we work on, we're working with the communications team, the PR team, less often the marketing team, and then less still, but not never would be SEOs. So we certainly have got on calls with the client and their SEO consultant and it can be tough because sometimes we are a little bit at cross purposes. The SEO's goal is to get as many links to the pages for the client on as many websites as possible. Wikipedia is a very widely read platform. However, Wikipedia also, years and years and years ago attached a no follow link to all of its outgoing links. So as far as I understand, it should not be giving you any of that precious Google juice. That said, it's still a very high profile place to be seen, so there's some value in being there. But not to be too critical, I'm speaking broadly about industry here. I am concerned oftentimes that SEOs will focus entirely on just getting links placed and have very little regard for what Wikipedia's guidelines or community want. So that can add an extra layer of complexity to our work.

[Doug Bell]

I remember the day when the no follow happened. I'm going to say it was 2018. I probably had the date wrong, but there was a point where Wikipedia tried to really crush the SEO tactics, if you will. And I do feel like it was this moment of just sort of relief for the editors because I feel like there was a fair amount. I have a couple friends that are editors, by the way, but there was this, and they're retirees to your point, and they focus on things like birds in American Civil War history. That's where they end.

[William Buhler]

Oh yeah, that sounds classic.

[Doug Bell]

What I ultimately think was smart about what Compedia was doing was just saying, look, we don't want this to be a link farm for SEOs, and we're going to do everything we can to really cut that off. But back to this idea of SEO. It is still incredibly beneficial. And I will tell you, I cannot quote this accurately, but conversion rates when your Wikipedia links show up on a page for a direct search about you are four or five times higher. In other words, that is a way. Even if you never click on that article and it's showing up in the panel, you're sending this incredibly strong signal to somebody who's never heard about your brand. The irony is that you're at the end of the day, if you get that link, you're probably a brand that doesn't need the link. So it's that smaller brands or the smaller entrepreneurs striving for the thing they need because when it shows up in the search, it's so beneficial. But there is some point where you have enough of a press profile, if you will, they can get it and you don't need it. So there we go. William, we just talked about your profession. I apologize for SEOs. William is not your buddy. He's just not your friend, is what I'm hearing.

[William Buhler]

Something like that. There's certainly a catch 22 here. When it comes to SEO, it can be done responsibly. But Wikipedia does throw up certain roadblocks that are not compatible with the purest aims and ambitions of an SEO.

[Doug Bell]

So there we go. Everybody listen in. Start a D and D club, get fascinated with history and birds, do lots of editing and hire Williams Firm, because guess what? That's the only way you're going to get that Wikipedia page up there. It is not an easy thing to publish. It is not an easy thing to maintain. Let the experts do it. William, anything else to add?

[William Buhler]

Oh, boy. I don't know. Wikipedia is such a large subject that I think you and I could talk about this for hours. But you've asked a lot of really good questions here. I would certainly implore people to go read our website. We have a lot of information about kind of answering basic questions about how Wikipedia works and what can we help you do and what kind of things should you stay away from. We're always adding more information. I really enjoy talking about Wikipedia because everybody uses Wikipedia to some extent, but almost nobody knows how the sausage gets made. I've been behind the scenes for decades at this point. I have the war stories. I love telling them. I'm very honored to have been invited on the show and it's been a lot of fun. Thank you so much, Doug.

[Doug Bell]

Yeah, you gotta. William, I gotta admit, I'm a huge Wikipedia fan, so let's just end there. To say that I think it's such an incredible source, it shouldn't be your only source. To be sure, we talked about all the reasons why.

[William Buhler]

Well said.

[Doug Bell]

But it is such a great sort of starting point for research. This is such a great starting point for so many other things, which is why I think your clients are striving to get there. Right. It really is the holy grail, if you will, of online legitimacy. So again, William, thank you so much for Your time today.

[William Buhler]

You're welcome. Thanks so much.

[Doug Bell]

Okay, that wraps up this episode of the Martech Podcast. A big thank you to William Buhler of Buhler Inc. For joining us today. We learned so much. If you'd like to get in touch with William, you can find a link to his LinkedIn profile in our show notes or visit his company's website at Utler Inc. Let me spell it for you. B E U T L E r.

[Benjamin Shapiro]

I n k.com okay, that wraps up this episode of the Martek Podcast, thanks to our guest host, Doug Bell, the CMO of Chief Outsiders. If you'd like to get in touch with Doug, you could find a link to his LinkedIn profile in our show notes. Or you can contact them on Twitter, where his handle is market advocate. Or you could just visit his website, which is chiefoutsiders.com A special thanks to the Current Podcast for sponsoring today's interview. If you're looking for candid conversations with marketing leaders from the world's biggest brands, then give the Current Podcast a listen. On the Current podcast you'll find exclusive interviews with experts and trendsetters who are on the front lines of digital advertising, and they always leave the ad tech jargon at the door. So subscribe to the [e-mail] or anywhere you get your podcasts today. Just one more link in our Show Notes I'd like to tell you about. If you didn't have a chance to take notes while you were listening to this podcast, head over to martechpod.com where we have summaries of all of our episodes and contact information for our guests. You can also subscribe to our weekly newsletter and you can even apply to be the next guest speaker on the MarTech podcast. Of course, you can always reach out on social media. Our handle is martechpod. M A R T E C H P O D on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook. Or you can contact me directly on LinkedIn. My handle is benjshap. B E N J S H A P and if you haven't subscribed yet and you want a daily stream of marketing and technology knowledge in your podcast feed, we're going to publish an episode every day this year, so hit the subscribe button in your podcast app and we'll be back in your feed tomorrow morning. All right, that's it for today, but until next time, my advice is to just focus on keeping your customers happy.

Thanks for listening to the Martech Podcast and I hear everything. Production Looking to launch or scale a podcast like this one for your brand, then visit. Iheareverything.